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maroonlegions
15 hours ago, Armageddon said:

Total game changer tonight, SpaceX has advanced the future scale of space exploration by 20 years and saved billions in doing so.

:spoton:

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The Future's Maroon
17 hours ago, Cade said:

Still waiting for confirmation of the landing of the third Falcon 9 main booster.

It was meant to land on a pad out in the sea, but it's rockets due to slow it's decent failed and it smashed into the sea.

 

 

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1 hour ago, The Future's Maroon said:

It was meant to land on a pad out in the sea, but it's rockets due to slow it's decent failed and it smashed into the sea.

 

 

 

 

Aye ... at 300mph ... now that would be amazing to see!!!

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24 minutes ago, Armageddon said:

 

 

Aye ... at 300mph ... now that would be amazing to see!!!

Some poor whale should have worn a hard hat. Friggin humans. 

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maroonlegions
6 hours ago, tian447 said:

There is now a ****ing car in space. 

 

It's just absolutely incredible to think that one day he woke up and decided that's what he was going to do. 

 

Brilliant :lol:

 Here is the car,  this was the live transmitting  from Telsa"s car.

 

 

 

 

 

Image showing payload,(,car).

 

 

pv5a7a3dbb[1].jpg

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maroonlegions

And finally this below, put beautifully  for  the space geeks of the present.

 

 

it has been 45 years since (#Apollo17, 7 December 1972) we had a moment of global awe and inspiration for space flight. @SpaceX is finally picking up where we left of as a species. Children today have again something to dream and hope for. Apollo17 ... 2017 :D

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1 hour ago, maroonlegions said:

:laugh:

 

Icke forum in melt down. :laugh:

Loving the Icke forum.    I once had them believing cats were sent to earth by the reptilians to monitor us.    Also that England’s World Cup final victory in 1966 was rigged as a war reparation.

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maroonlegions

Neat, cool in fact.

 

The substance may exist on icy planets like Neptune and Uranus
SCIENCEMAG.ORG
 

 

This kind of water doesn’t exist naturally on Earth, the scientists report in Nature Physics, but it may be present in the mantles of icy planets like Neptune and Uranus. http://www.sciencemag.org/…/scientists-create-new-form-matt…

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1 hour ago, deesidejambo said:

Loving the Icke forum.    I once had them believing cats were sent to earth by the reptilians to monitor us.    Also that England’s World Cup final victory in 1966 was rigged as a war reparation.

 

:lol:

 

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1 hour ago, deesidejambo said:

 Also that England’s World Cup final victory in 1966 was rigged as a war reparation.

A knew it.

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On ‎06‎/‎02‎/‎2018 at 13:44, Maple Leaf said:

 

You ask, before time, energy and space were created, what existed?  That question almost answers itself ... nothing existed.  Everything started, including time,  with the explosion of the singularity.  That's a concept that is practically impossible for the human mind to comprehend because of how we evolved.  Understanding nothingness is not necessary for our survival.  The concept is not dissimilar to the Creation myth in Genesis: If God created the universe out of nothing, what existed before Creation and what did God do with His time?  Obvious answer ... nothing.

 

As for Galileo et al, I'm sure they were men of God, but that was then.  Prior to the 19th century, I'm sure most scientists believed in a god .  But a survey I read about a year ago indicated that a mere 7% of today's scientists believe in a deity.  The question posed by the organisers of the survey was ... "Why is that percentage so high?"

 

  

Hi Maple, we obviously have and hold very different world views. When discussing the subject of creation and the universe, we are able to chat about our differences and beliefs in a friendly and amicable way, and for that I thank you.

The concept of ‘nothing’ is a good starting point.

As far as I am aware, atheists hold the belief that the universe was created naturally. That something exists because there is something and that something (the universe) came about spontaneously without cause or reason.

It just happened from nothing?

In the light of that statement, I think that it is very reasonable and justifiable to ask the question was the universe created for a reason by a creative and intelligent being.

The standard questioned reply from the atheist is predictably, ‘who created God’? (Refusing to accept that God is transcendent to the universe, eternal out with the bounds of time and space. The uncaused, ‘First Cause’).

However as we have seen by Hawking’s own argument atheists have a very big unanswered question of their own.

Outlined in my previous post: Hawking’s states clearly that ‘because of the law of gravity the universe exists’.

Who created the law of gravity?  

And how do laws and theories create energy and matter?

At best Hawking’s seems unable to answer this question.

 

 

 

 

Edited by alfajambo
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No a bad wee thread this.

 

It made me remember that when I was wee, I used to try to imagine nothing existed not even nothing. I could never do it. :D

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22 minutes ago, alfajambo said:

Hi Maple, we obviously have and hold very different world views. When discussing the subject of creation and the universe, we are able to chat about our differences and beliefs in a friendly and amicable way, and for that I thank you.

The concept of ‘nothing’ is a good starting point.

As far as I am aware, atheists hold the belief that the universe was created naturally. That something exists because there is something and that something (the universe) came about spontaneously without cause or reason.

It just happened from nothing?

In the light of that statement, I think that it is very reasonable and justifiable to ask the question was the universe created for a reason by a creative and intelligent being.

The standard questioned reply from the atheist is predictably, ‘who created God’? (Refusing to accept that God is transcendent to the universe, eternal out with the bounds of time and space. The uncaused, ‘First Cause’).

However as we have seen by Hawking’s own argument atheists have a very big unanswered question of their own.

Outlined in my previous post: Hawking’s states clearly that ‘because of the law of gravity the universe exists’.

Who created the law of gravity?  

And how do laws and theories create energy and matter?

At best Hawking’s seems unable to answer this question.

 

 

 

 

 

We don't fully understand yet what was before the big bang. I'm fine with that without inventing some supernatural being for which there is zero evidence.

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1 hour ago, alfajambo said:

Hi Maple, we obviously have and hold very different world views. When discussing the subject of creation and the universe, we are able to chat about our differences and beliefs in a friendly and amicable way, and for that I thank you.

The concept of ‘nothing’ is a good starting point.

As far as I am aware, atheists hold the belief that the universe was created naturally. That something exists because there is something and that something (the universe) came about spontaneously without cause or reason.

It just happened from nothing?

In the light of that statement, I think that it is very reasonable and justifiable to ask the question was the universe created for a reason by a creative and intelligent being.

The standard questioned reply from the atheist is predictably, ‘who created God’? (Refusing to accept that God is transcendent to the universe, eternal out with the bounds of time and space. The uncaused, ‘First Cause’).

However as we have seen by Hawking’s own argument atheists have a very big unanswered question of their own.

Outlined in my previous post: Hawking’s states clearly that ‘because of the law of gravity the universe exists’.

Who created the law of gravity?  

And how do laws and theories create energy and matter?

At best Hawking’s seems unable to answer this question. 

 

Yes, we do indeed hold very different views on this topic.  And, I agree that it's good that an atheist and a Christian can discuss the differences in an amicable manner.  It probably wouldn't be so amicable if we were both Christians, or both Muslims, etc.  The history books are replete with examples of slaughters over different interpretations of sacred books.  :biggrin:  None of the books I read are sacred to me, and I include the Bible, so we're probably OK to continue!

 

Where we appear to differ the most is over the Christian belief that the universe is here for a reason, and that humans are here for a reason.  In my opinion (I wouldn't presume to speak on behalf of all atheists) is that the universe is here as a result of natural forces, and that humans are here as a result of 3+ billion years of biological evolution.  If the fundamental forces in physics had been slightly different, our galaxy might never have been formed.  If the climate had been slightly different on earth, and asteroid strikes had been fewer, there might not be a species called homo sapiens.  There is no "reason" behind all of that.  It is what it is.

 

To answer your specific questions, no-one "created" the law of gravity.  The law of gravity, or the theory of gravity, is an attempt by humans to understand an important aspect of our lives, one which stops us from drifting off into space.

 

Similarly, laws and theories do not "create" energy and matter.  Energy and matter were created at the Big Bang.  Scientific laws and theories are nothing more than attempts at explanations.   They are always subject to modification if new evidence is revealed.

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1 hour ago, Ray Gin said:

 

We don't fully understand yet what was before the big bang. I'm fine with that without inventing some supernatural being for which there is zero evidence.

 

And there lies the conundrum.  There is no evidence for some deity, and there is no evidence from any other reason.    

 

So all are free to make their own postulations.

 

But anyone who denies any others postulation is a low IQ thicko because all possible explanations for the pre_universe situation are équiprobable.

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1 hour ago, alfajambo said:

Hi Maple, we obviously have and hold very different world views. When discussing the subject of creation and the universe, we are able to chat about our differences and beliefs in a friendly and amicable way, and for that I thank you.

The concept of ‘nothing’ is a good starting point.

As far as I am aware, atheists hold the belief that the universe was created naturally. That something exists because there is something and that something (the universe) came about spontaneously without cause or reason.

It just happened from nothing?

In the light of that statement, I think that it is very reasonable and justifiable to ask the question was the universe created for a reason by a creative and intelligent being.

The standard questioned reply from the atheist is predictably, ‘who created God’? (Refusing to accept that God is transcendent to the universe, eternal out with the bounds of time and space. The uncaused, ‘First Cause’).

However as we have seen by Hawking’s own argument atheists have a very big unanswered question of their own.

Outlined in my previous post: Hawking’s states clearly that ‘because of the law of gravity the universe exists’.

Who created the law of gravity?  

And how do laws and theories create energy and matter?

At best Hawking’s seems unable to answer this question.

 

 

 

 

I think you're wrong there, atheists don't share a world (or universe!) view because there's no guiding book they all follow. I personally don't know how the universe started, but I see no justification for the "can't explain that? Well it must have been God then eh?" argument.

You're correct that atheists are guilty of "Refusing to accept that God is transcendent to the universe, eternal out with the bounds of time and space" but that's because it's a concept that requires belief in a supernatural being, it's hardly mental of them. 

Not believing in supernatural beings is pretty normal. 

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8 hours ago, deesidejambo said:

 

And there lies the conundrum.  There is no evidence for some deity, and there is no evidence from any other reason.    

 

So all are free to make their own postulations.

 

But anyone who denies any others postulation is a low IQ thicko because all possible explanations for the pre_universe situation are équiprobable.

 

Not really. It is foolish to believe any random nonsense just because you can't prove it isn't there. 

 

Like an invisible omnipotent flying spaghetti monster. Prove it doesn't exist.

 

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10 hours ago, Ray Gin said:

 

Not really. It is foolish to believe any random nonsense just because you can't prove it isn't there. 

 

Like an invisible omnipotent flying spaghetti monster. Prove it doesn't exist.

 

Thats not what I'm saying.

 

What is at debate here is how the universe was created.

 

What science does is postulate potential answers to questions such as this, then they are tested, challenged, and ultimately one would be "accepted" by the scientific community in general.

 

But in this case there is only one postulation - a big beardy deity.     There are no alternatives on the table so its no surprise some people choose to accept the only solution available to them.  

 

Onc ea viable alternativ scientific postulation appears then it could b compared against beardy and one or other could be accepted.

 

But until then beardy is the only answer...........

 

 

 

 

 

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Beardy isn't a solution, just another question. If you need to know what happened before the big bang and what caused it, you equally need to know what was before God and what created him.

 

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maroonlegions
16 minutes ago, deesidejambo said:

Thats not what I'm saying.

 

What is at debate here is how the universe was created.

 

What science does is postulate potential answers to questions such as this, then they are tested, challenged, and ultimately one would be "accepted" by the scientific community in general.

 

But in this case there is only one postulation - a big beardy deity.     There are no alternatives on the table so its no surprise some people choose to accept the only solution available to them.  

 

Onc ea viable alternativ scientific postulation appears then it could b compared against beardy and one or other could be accepted.

 

But until then beardy is the only answer...........

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Outside the "CREATOR" postulation, there have been over the years,  a scientific postulation that has been  put forward a  possibility that the universe is not only one of others, but  our universe could be what is termed as the ‘holographic principle

 

Seems far fetched but put up against the beardy creator  it seems hardly controversial and with  scientific substance, or a least postulations  little that may be at present.

 

 

Ready your brain. The universe might be two-dimensional, except we perceive it as three-dimensional, according to the Physical Review Letters. In this thought experiment, the flat surface of the universe contains all the information we need to sense three dimensions—much like a hologram.

 

This amazing idea is known as the ‘holographic principle’ and arises from string theory. String theory says that the gravity in the universe is made up of thin, vibrating strings called gravitons. 

 

These strings make up the holograms of events that happen in 3D space within a flat cosmos. They contain the information that a 3D object would have, for example its volume. So if you want to know what's happening inside a ball, you can find out everything you need to know just by looking at the surface.

 

 

 

 

 

 

holo-jan[1].jpg

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maroonlegions
2 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

Beardy isn't a solution, just another question. If you need to know what happened before the big bang and what caused it, you equally need to know what was before God and what created him.

 

 Then our perception of such a god is redundant if there was a source that created that god, back to square one i think.

 

What if all matter has always existed, no beginning and no real end.

 

What if time is an abstract conception??

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58 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

Beardy isn't a solution, just another question. If you need to know what happened before the big bang and what caused it, you equally need to know what was before God and what created him.

 

 

But what was before whatever was before God (if he/she/it exists/existed)?

 

Ah, the infinites of time and space. The Möbius strip (both in time and space) is the only way I can see out of it. But that's all assuming that there are limited dimensions anyway (perhaps there are an infinite number to make it more interesting).

 

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7 minutes ago, deesidejambo said:

Science may one day answer the question “How was the universe created?”

 

But it will never answer the question - why?

 

How do you know that? And why does there need to be a reason?

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1 minute ago, redjambo said:

 

But what was before whatever was before God (if he/she/it exists/existed)?

 

 

Exactly, that is precisely why dreaming up a supernatural deity is not an answer as to how everything began, because you are still left with exactly the same questions.

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12 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

 

How do you know that? And why does there need to be a reason?

Because science is all about finding rational explanations to the question "how?".       

 

And no there doesn't need to be a reason for existence, but my point is we may know how, but will never know why the universe even exists.

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We all understand that the universe is vast beyond our ability to understand.  There are estimated to be 100 billion galaxies.

 

But even our galaxy, the Milky Way, which occupies a tiny corner of the universe, is vast beyond our ability to understand.  There are estimated to be about 100 billion stars in our galaxy.

 

But even our tiny corner of the Milky Way galaxy, our solar system, is vast beyond our ability to understand.  That became very clear to me when I realised that it is impossible to build a visible, scale model of our solar system.

 

Let's imagine that were going to build a scale model of the solar system on the playing surface at Tynecastle, keeping all the planets inside the Park.. 

 

We'll start by putting the sun on the goal line in front of the Roseburn.  How big should we make it?  The sun is 870,000 miles in diameter, but let's shrink it down to the size of a football and see what happens.  Unfortunately, even on that tiny scale, the farthest planet, Neptune is still over 700 yards away, well past Gorgie Road, well past Slateford Road, maybe up around Shandon or Ashley Terrace.

 

So we have to shrink the massive sun even more.  Let's leave it on the goal line in front of the Roseburn, but we'll shrink it down to a mere 1" in diameter, the size of about a walnut.  Does that work?  Yes, Neptune is now only 90 yards away, about the goal line in front of the Gorgie Stand.  Unfortunately, when we shrunk the sun, we had to also shrink the size of the planets.  On this scale, Mercury is only 3 one-thousands of an inch in diameter, Venus and earth are about 9 one-thousands of an inch in diameter, and Mars is only 5 one-thousands of an inch.  In other words, they are all invisible; specks of dust.

 

As I said, our tiny corner of a tiny corner of the universe is so enormous, and the planets so small, that it's impossible to build a visible scale model.

 

In anticipation of those who might say that I have too much time on my hands, all of the above took about 5 minutes on Google!  :thumbsup:

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J.T.F.Robertson
20 minutes ago, Maple Leaf said:

We all understand that the universe is vast beyond our ability to understand.  There are estimated to be 100 billion galaxies.

 

But even our galaxy, the Milky Way, which occupies a tiny corner of the universe, is vast beyond our ability to understand.  There are estimated to be about 100 billion stars in our galaxy.

 

But even our tiny corner of the Milky Way galaxy, our solar system, is vast beyond our ability to understand.  That became very clear to me when I realised that it is impossible to build a visible, scale model of our solar system.

 

Let's imagine that were going to build a scale model of the solar system on the playing surface at Tynecastle, keeping all the planets inside the Park.. 

 

We'll start by putting the sun on the goal line in front of the Roseburn.  How big should we make it?  The sun is 870,000 miles in diameter, but let's shrink it down to the size of a football and see what happens.  Unfortunately, even on that tiny scale, the farthest planet, Neptune is still over 700 yards away, well past Gorgie Road, well past Slateford Road, maybe up around Shandon or Ashley Terrace.

 

So we have to shrink the massive sun even more.  Let's leave it on the goal line in front of the Roseburn, but we'll shrink it down to a mere 1" in diameter, the size of about a walnut.  Does that work?  Yes, Neptune is now only 90 yards away, about the goal line in front of the Gorgie Stand.  Unfortunately, when we shrunk the sun, we had to also shrink the size of the planets.  On this scale, Mercury is only 3 one-thousands of an inch in diameter, Venus and earth are about 9 one-thousands of an inch in diameter, and Mars is only 5 one-thousands of an inch.  In other words, they are all invisible; specks of dust.

 

As I said, our tiny corner of a tiny corner of the universe is so enormous, and the planets so small, that it's impossible to build a visible scale model.

 

In anticipation of those who might say that I have too much time on my hands, all of the above took about 5 minutes on Google!  :thumbsup:

 

Congratulations! The scale model of the depths of my insignificance have just produced the same result. :huh:

 

 

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32 minutes ago, Maple Leaf said:

We all understand that the universe is vast beyond our ability to understand.  There are estimated to be 100 billion galaxies.

 

But even our galaxy, the Milky Way, which occupies a tiny corner of the universe, is vast beyond our ability to understand.  There are estimated to be about 100 billion stars in our galaxy.

 

But even our tiny corner of the Milky Way galaxy, our solar system, is vast beyond our ability to understand.  That became very clear to me when I realised that it is impossible to build a visible, scale model of our solar system.

 

Let's imagine that were going to build a scale model of the solar system on the playing surface at Tynecastle, keeping all the planets inside the Park.. 

 

We'll start by putting the sun on the goal line in front of the Roseburn.  How big should we make it?  The sun is 870,000 miles in diameter, but let's shrink it down to the size of a football and see what happens.  Unfortunately, even on that tiny scale, the farthest planet, Neptune is still over 700 yards away, well past Gorgie Road, well past Slateford Road, maybe up around Shandon or Ashley Terrace.

 

So we have to shrink the massive sun even more.  Let's leave it on the goal line in front of the Roseburn, but we'll shrink it down to a mere 1" in diameter, the size of about a walnut.  Does that work?  Yes, Neptune is now only 90 yards away, about the goal line in front of the Gorgie Stand.  Unfortunately, when we shrunk the sun, we had to also shrink the size of the planets.  On this scale, Mercury is only 3 one-thousands of an inch in diameter, Venus and earth are about 9 one-thousands of an inch in diameter, and Mars is only 5 one-thousands of an inch.  In other words, they are all invisible; specks of dust.

 

As I said, our tiny corner of a tiny corner of the universe is so enormous, and the planets so small, that it's impossible to build a visible scale model.

 

In anticipation of those who might say that I have too much time on my hands, all of the above took about 5 minutes on Google!  :thumbsup:

You’ll mess up the pitch with your shenanigans

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3 hours ago, deesidejambo said:

You’ll mess up the pitch with your shenanigans

 

 

:laugh:

 

He was threatening to wreck the entire district with his first scale model.  :biggrin:

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maroonlegions

So the search continues , a search that to date has merely even scratched  the surface of the works out there. A search that is still  in its infancy.

 

Fourteen down, roughly 100 billion to go! And that's just in our galaxy.

 

 

"The study, titled “A search for technosignatures from 14 planetary systems in the Kepler field with the Green Bank Telescope at 1.15-1.73 GHz“, recently appeared online and is being reviewed for publication by The Astronomical Journal. The team was led by Jean-Luc Margot, the Chair of the UCLA Department of Earth, Planetary and Space Sciences (UCLA EPPS) and a Professor with UCLA’s Department of Physics and Astronomy".

 

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On 2/8/2018 at 19:47, deesidejambo said:

Science may one day answer the question “How was the universe created?”

 

But it will never answer the question - why?

You've taken this to another level :thumbsup:

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maroonlegions

Mental.:illogical:

 

Will science one day find the answer to  the questions "why" and "for what purpose", as it digs deeper and deeper at the mysteries of time and space and possible  other dimensions 

 

Quantum physics is weird. As soon as you think you understand it, you find five more reasons you don't. Take this, for example: the Standard Model of ...
CURIOSITY.COM
 
 
A new software program that uses artificial intelligence can help rapidly detect and analyze gravitational waves, or ripples in the cosmic fabric of space-time.
SPACE.COM
 

 

 

Edited by maroonlegions
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8 hours ago, maroonlegions said:

Mental.:illogical:

 

Will science one day find the answer to  the questions "why" and "for what purpose", as it digs deeper and deeper at the mysteries of time and space and possible  other dimensions 

 

Quantum physics is weird. As soon as you think you understand it, you find five more reasons you don't. Take this, for example: the Standard Model of ...
CURIOSITY.COM
 
 
A new software program that uses artificial intelligence can help rapidly detect and analyze gravitational waves, or ripples in the cosmic fabric of space-time.
SPACE.COM
 

 

 

For the string Michio Kaku is your friend. Theoretically! :)

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On ‎08‎/‎02‎/‎2018 at 19:58, Ray Gin said:

 

Exactly, that is precisely why dreaming up a supernatural deity is not an answer as to how everything began, because you are still left with exactly the same questions.

Your argument against the existence of a transcendent Creator God, goes something like this.

There is no God, There is no God etc.…

Can I also remind you that people believe in God because of the evidence, because of the scientific understanding we have, and because of what we see in the universe.

I remain an optimist. I believe that absolute truth is a reality and that God and the Holy Spirit can bring enlightenment to even the darkest of minds. So there is still hope for us both.

Edited by alfajambo
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19 hours ago, deesidejambo said:

You’ll mess up the pitch with your shenanigans

 

You never know, perhaps an opposition striker will trip on the walnut-sun and miss his shot. ;)

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1 hour ago, redjambo said:

 

You never know, perhaps an opposition striker will trip on the walnut-sun and miss his shot. ;)

Sadly, it's more likely to be Djoum.  Sorry, I'm going off topic.

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3 hours ago, alfajambo said:

Your argument against the existence of a transcendent Creator God, goes something like this.

There is no God, There is no God etc.…

Can I also remind you that people believe in God because of the evidence, because of the scientific understanding we have, and because of what we see in the universe.

 

You have discovered scientific evidence for God? What a breakthrough! Please share the details of these findings and the tests you conducted so that they can be verified by the scientific community.

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14 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

 

You have discovered scientific evidence for God? What a breakthrough! Please share the details of these findings and the tests you conducted so that they can be verified by the scientific community.

Eva Greens mammarials are evidence of perfection that science cannot explain.

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maroonlegions
9 hours ago, ri Alban said:

For the string Michio Kaku is your friend. Theoretically! :)

 Yes he is quite in depth in layman terms wit his theories. 

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