Aberdeen's new stadium...

[portobellojambo1]

21 minutes ago, Sir Gio said:

Never heard of the snow line.

 

However left home on Monday it was 0. By the time I passed Kingsford 6 miles away -5. It will be a cold whoor of a place to watch football

 

I hadn't either Sir Gio, until as a relatively younger person our family moved home up to Buckstone, and then I discovered where snow would lie in Edinburgh even if it wasn't lying anywhere else in the city. The streets and pavements could be pure white, covered in snow up there and then you'd get down to around Greenbank Drive, just before Morningside, and the snow just disappeared. I don't know if snow line is the correct term for it but that is what it was called back then by the locals around that area of town.  I cannot remember who it was that told me the area that Aberdeen are thinking of relocating to is above the snow line up there, that is down to old age setting in on my part.

[portobellojambo1]

9 minutes ago, graygo said:

 

Is that not what the new bypass they are building will do?

 

I hadn't looked in any sort of detail at what is planned Graygo, but from what you have posted above it does seem that way. Is it not also likely to attract objections from those living/working in that area if it infringes on relatively high production farmland.

Edited December 14, 2017 by portobellojambo1

[graygo]

5 minutes ago, portobellojambo1 said:

 

I hadn't looked in any sort of detail at what is planned Graygo, but from what you have posted above it does seem that way. Is it not also likely to attract objections from those living/working in that area if it infringes on relatively high production farmland.

 

It's already started mate. Opens next winter all being well.

 

 

https://www.transport.gov.scot/projects/aberdeen-western-peripheral-route-balmedie-to-tipperty/aberdeen-western-peripheral-route-balmedie-to-tipperty/

 

[portobellojambo1]

3 minutes ago, graygo said:

 

It's already started mate. Opens next winter all being well.

 

 

https://www.transport.gov.scot/projects/aberdeen-western-peripheral-route-balmedie-to-tipperty/aberdeen-western-peripheral-route-balmedie-to-tipperty/

 

 

Cheers, presumably Aberdeen FC won't be expected to contribute any money to the road being built, will they.

[graygo]

5 minutes ago, portobellojambo1 said:

 

Cheers, presumably Aberdeen FC won't be expected to contribute any money to the road being built, will they.

 

  Not a chance.

 

The official estimate of the cost of the AWPR was initially £295 - £395 million.

Transport Scotland quotes the scheme at £745 million in 2012 prices.

 

Puts our overspend into a bit of context.

[sadj]

30 minutes ago, portobellojambo1 said:

 

I hadn't looked in any sort of detail at what is planned Graygo, but from what you have posted above it does seem that way. Is it not also likely to attract objections from those living/working in that area if it infringes on relatively high production farmland.

There was lots of complaints but the council put out a compulsary purchase order for areas and properties affected by that and reconstruction at the haudagain roundabout

[graygo]

12 minutes ago, sadj said:

There was lots of complaints but the council put out a compulsary purchase order for areas and properties affected by that and reconstruction at the haudagain roundabout

 

It took a bit more than that. It went a similar route to HMRC v Rangers.

 

Given the number of objectors, a public local enquiry (PLI) was held in 2008-2009 although its limited remit was controversial. The PLI recommended adoption of the route and Scottish Ministers approved the route, and it was passed by resolution of the Scottish Parliament on 3 March 2010. Thereafter an appeal was made to the Court of Session based on a number of points, including the limited remit of the PLI. The appeal was dismissed and a further appeal was made to the appellate division the "Inner House" of the Court of Session. This also failed. A yet further appeal was made to the UK Supreme Court. This appeal also failed to overturn the decision to proceed with the route.

[Dunks]

Was it not pretty much just one guy that kept appealing?

[sadj]

1 hour ago, graygo said:

 

It took a bit more than that. It went a similar route to HMRC v Rangers.

 

Given the number of objectors, a public local enquiry (PLI) was held in 2008-2009 although its limited remit was controversial. The PLI recommended adoption of the route and Scottish Ministers approved the route, and it was passed by resolution of the Scottish Parliament on 3 March 2010. Thereafter an appeal was made to the Court of Session based on a number of points, including the limited remit of the PLI. The appeal was dismissed and a further appeal was made to the appellate division the "Inner House" of the Court of Session. This also failed. A yet further appeal was made to the UK Supreme Court. This appeal also failed to overturn the decision to proceed with the route.

I may have trivialised the nature of the complaints up here , but all I was saying was there  mass objections but it got pushed through essentially as in it was happening no matter what but then it was first raised in about 1946 so I guess they had plenty time to complain ?? 

[indianajones]

The Aberdeen bypass is about 25 years too late to be honest.

 

 

[JALBO]

2 hours ago, graygo said:

 

Is that not what the new bypass they are building will do?

 

I don't often visit those parts, but a couple of weeks ago, I had to go to Alford, and therefore drove right out past Kingswells and Westhill. I was really surprised how far out of town the proposed stadium site is - I imagine the equivalent here in Edinburgh would be Hearts moving to somewhere near Newbridge. I just can't see it being in the long-term interest of the club to be situated so far out of Aberdeen.

[Pans Jambo]

If they go out any further from the city they will be called MK Dons. 

Edited December 14, 2017 by Pans Jambo

[RobNox]

8 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

If they go out any further from the city they will be called MK Dons. 

 

[sadj]

3 hours ago, Pans Jambo said:

If they go out any further from the city they will be called MK Dons. 

???

[Section Q]

6 hours ago, Dunks said:

Was it not pretty much just one guy that kept appealing?

Heard it was Donald Trump...!

[Unknown user]

2 hours ago, Section Q said:

Heard it was Donald Trump...!

Only the most mental hear the word "appealing" and think Donald Trump - I'm watching you!

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

The area that it is I don't think the location 6 miles out is a big deal. People are used to moving about a bit and the road will provide a better link for the many Shire people. The temperature this past week though is noticeably more uncomfortable. Its also an exposed area around the stadium.

 

I was told its currently a landfill site. I am there nearly every day. Only very recently have I seen any cattle on the land. On the map its at the lowest point to the right, sitting on the A944. The training pitches I presume will run all the way East to the AWPR. And its 35 years late rather than 25!!

[cheetah]

I am so angry i posted a picture of a demolished stand to show just how shite Hearts are.

 

ISTL total dandy fud, should have been launched ages ago.

[alanbauld]

Hearts took the cheap option with the main stand so it looks no different from the other three, thats the only thing stopping it from being perfect. The Aberdeen new ground looks totally characterless in a totally characterless area, hate it. Something about a stadium in the heart of the community that can never be replicated out of town.

[Phil D. Corners]

The problem for Aberdeen is they are locked between the Don, the Dee, and the Sea. 

 

Out west is only the option. 

Edited December 15, 2017 by Phil D. Corners

[Fort Vallance]

The point about not being able to replicate is out of town is spot on. I remember going to Muirton Park in the 70's & 80's and although nostalgia plays a part as does standing, it was always a cracking atmosphere. The first trip after we got promoted was unbelievable and could never be replicated in that Legoland thing the farmers have now.

[IveSeenTheLight]

1 hour ago, cheetah said:

I am so angry i posted a picture of a demolished stand to show just how shite Hearts are.

 

ISTL total dandy fud, should have been launched ages ago.

 

I think you have viewed my post in isolation and not in the context it was meant.

[sadj]

48 minutes ago, Phil D. Corners said:

The problem for Aberdeen is they are locked between the Don, the Dee, and the Sea. 

 

Out west is only the option. 

If they knock down the merkland and south they could build both bigger by moving the carparks. Far from impossible. Whole ground could be expanded/redeveloped if Milne hadn't built on the ground around the stadium. It certainly needs the main stand and facilities updated if they stay there. Some of the worst i experienced. 

Edited December 15, 2017 by sadj

[IveSeenTheLight]

1 hour ago, Sir Gio said:

The area that it is I don't think the location 6 miles out is a big deal. People are used to moving about a bit and the road will provide a better link for the many Shire people. The temperature this past week though is noticeably more uncomfortable. Its also an exposed area around the stadium.

 

I was told its currently a landfill site. I am there nearly every day. Only very recently have I seen any cattle on the land. On the map its at the lowest point to the right, sitting on the A944. The training pitches I presume will run all the way East to the AWPR. And its 35 years late rather than 25!!

 

All these points about snow lines are a moot point to be honest.

We've had our first flurry of snow in about 4 years and it has not impacted any of our games, home or away.

The game on Friday night went ahead, despite the weather conditions around Aberdeen and down to Stonehaven, so there was little thought for travelling fans as well.

 

Whilst the outside area may be exposed, the stadium plans indicate its an enclosed stadium, which will help for all you wooses that can't handle a wee dip in temperature

 

As for the training pitches, it does not run all the way east to the AWPR

 

[IveSeenTheLight]

12 minutes ago, sadj said:

If they knock down the merkland and south they could build both bigger by moving the carparks. Far from impossible. Whole ground could be expanded/redeveloped if Milne hadn't built on the ground around the stadium. It certainly needs the main stand and facilities updated if they stay there. Some of the worst i experienced. 

 

Redeveloping Pittodrie would be far more expensive and also not provide the training facilities on-site.

It's been explored and dismissed.

[Buffalo Bill]

1 hour ago, alanbauld said:

Hearts took the cheap option with the main stand so it looks no different from the other three, thats the only thing stopping it from being perfect. The Aberdeen new ground looks totally characterless in a totally characterless area, hate it. Something about a stadium in the heart of the community that can never be replicated out of town.

 

alan, what's cheap about £14M?

 

It's a single tier because 20,000-seater stadiums don't need double tiers for the amount of people going in and out of it. And I would suggest it's very different from the other three due to the massive amount of hospitality areas built into it.

[Jambo83]

This double / single tier obsession amuses me highly.  I have two words for those weirdo's:

 

Borussia Dortmund.

[kirkierobroy]

Have any out-of-town-on-the-bypass stadiums worked in Scotland? St Johnstone - 2/3 empty, Inverness 2/3 empty, Clyde, comically empty, Stirling Albion, ditto. And this one is a heck of a way from the centre, further than any other Scottish team, surely, from the heart of their town or city.

 

The likes of McDiarmid and the Caledonian sometimes take ages for vehicles to get out of , even with crowds of 2-3,000 and at least they are within reasonable walking distance of the town centres, railways stations etc. This new Aberdeen gaff isn't.

 

There's a lot of controversy I understand about just how developable Pittodrie is. Baldy Milne says it isnae, others say it is. If they new place is built, I wonder how sensible a decision it'll look in early August when Aberdeen have been knocked out of Europe by a team from Macedonia and their top four players get signed by Celtic and Rangers v3?

[IveSeenTheLight]

4 minutes ago, kirkierobroy said:

Have any out-of-town-on-the-bypass stadiums worked in Scotland? St Johnstone - 2/3 empty, Inverness 2/3 empty, Clyde, comically empty, Stirling Albion, ditto. And this one is a heck of a way from the centre, further than any other Scottish team, surely, from the heart of their town or city.

 

The likes of McDiarmid and the Caledonian sometimes take ages for vehicles to get out of , even with crowds of 2-3,000 and at least they are within reasonable walking distance of the town centres, railways stations etc. This new Aberdeen gaff isn't.

 

Why limit to just other Scottish clubs.

Surely a view could be taken to identify the best solution from a global perspective.

There are loads of examples of grounds away from the city centre

 

4 minutes ago, kirkierobroy said:

There's a lot of controversy I understand about just how developable Pittodrie is. Baldy Milne says it isnae, others say it is. If they new place is built, I wonder how sensible a decision it'll look in early August when Aberdeen have been knocked out of Europe by a team from Macedonia and their top four players get signed by Celtic and Rangers v3?

 

Pure hypothetical speculation, with no merit by historical example.

Incidentally, the size of the ground is not getting any bigger.

[Thomaso]

2 hours ago, alanbauld said:

Hearts took the cheap option with the main stand so it looks no different from the other three, thats the only thing stopping it from being perfect. The Aberdeen new ground looks totally characterless in a totally characterless area, hate it. Something about a stadium in the heart of the community that can never be replicated out of town.

 

It's called 'Design Continuity' for the architecturally uneducated.

[Coburg Hearts]

13 hours ago, Pans Jambo said:

If they go out any further from the city they will be called MK Dons. 

[sadj]

3 hours ago, IveSeenTheLight said:

 

Redeveloping Pittodrie would be far more expensive and also not provide the training facilities on-site.

It's been explored and dismissed.

I’m aware of that , I was replying to “Its locked between the Don , Dee n Sea”

 

My personal opinion is that the shortsighted greed of some individuals is why redevelopment is too expensive an option as Id imagine three stands would need knocked down and the dick donald moved (if thats even doable) to be able to redevelop Pittodrie in a suitable manner and thats a mad undertaking. The facilities for training outside of the Sports village are awful and facilities in the ground iv never enjoyed therefore moving is the only option. Due to the massive expansion up here in the last 40 years theres not many viable options. I think 50 million might be fanciful however unless Milne is prepared to swallow the likely overspend that almost all major projects incur.

[sadj]

1 hour ago, Thomaso said:

 

It's called 'Design Continuity' for the architecturally uneducated.

 

I don’t see how that detracts from it and the design continuity surely allows for further redevelopment without losing the atmosphere 

[Mikey1874]

Checking the whole saga would start from what Milne has / is set to gain for his businesses.

[Thomaso]

1 minute ago, sadj said:

 

I don’t see how that detracts from it and the design continuity surely allows for further redevelopment without losing the atmosphere 

 

I like the uniformity - rather than the monstrosities built at the ends of Fir Park and Pittodrie!

[socrates82]

2 hours ago, kirkierobroy said:

Have any out-of-town-on-the-bypass stadiums worked in Scotland? St Johnstone - 2/3 empty, Inverness 2/3 empty, Clyde, comically empty, Stirling Albion, ditto. And this one is a heck of a way from the centre, further than any other Scottish team, surely, from the heart of their town or city.

 

The likes of McDiarmid and the Caledonian sometimes take ages for vehicles to get out of , even with crowds of 2-3,000 and at least they are within reasonable walking distance of the town centres, railways stations etc. This new Aberdeen gaff isn't.

 

There's a lot of controversy I understand about just how developable Pittodrie is. Baldy Milne says it isnae, others say it is. If they new place is built, I wonder how sensible a decision it'll look in early August when Aberdeen have been knocked out of Europe by a team from Macedonia and their top four players get signed by Celtic and Rangers v3?

 

Milne knows Pittodrie is highly developable. It’s justs it’s not a stadium he thinks should be developed there. This reminds me very much of the Pieman trying to get us out of Tynecastle and before that that whole Hibs Straiton stadium stuff. Both clubs told fans this was the best or only option blah blah blah yet developing the existing stadium was best for both.

Edited December 15, 2017 by socrates82

[socrates82]

4 hours ago, IveSeenTheLight said:

 

Redeveloping Pittodrie would be far more expensive and also not provide the training facilities on-site.

It's been explored and dismissed.

 

Hibs and Hearts both have off-site training facilities. So do clubs like Man Utd. What's the problem with that?

[socrates82]

2 hours ago, IveSeenTheLight said:

 

Why limit to just other Scottish clubs.

Surely a view could be taken to identify the best solution from a global perspective.

There are loads of examples of grounds away from the city centre

 

 

Pure hypothetical speculation, with no merit by historical example.

Incidentally, the size of the ground is not getting any bigger.

 

There's a bit of a global trend to try to keep stadiums in city centres I thought? There was some research into it, eg in the MLS - https://www.citylab.com/design/2014/11/why-the-future-of-major-league-soccer-is-downtown/382942/

 

I think when even the slaves to their cars like Americans realise the benefits of a city centre stadium there must be something in it. Counting on Dons fans to just continue going out of loyalty and put up with a bit more of a journey or having to drive/bus, etc is risky, especially when they're a bit of a fickle support attendance-wise at the best of times. And as the link above shows, if you want the younger support, a city centre ground is essential.

Edited December 15, 2017 by socrates82

[Unknown user]

4 hours ago, IveSeenTheLight said:

 

Redeveloping Pittodrie would be far more expensive and also not provide the training facilities on-site.

It's been explored and dismissed.

Why do training facilities need to be on the same site you use 20-25 days a year? It's very rare for clubs to have their stadium and training ground in the same place so how have they convinced you it's somehow important?

 

Also, far more expensive than what? If anyone genuinely thinks your plans for a 20,000 capacity stadium plus training facilities, including infrastructure like bridges and what have you will come in at 50 million they're kidding themselves 

Edited December 15, 2017 by Smithee

[socrates82]

17 minutes ago, Smithee said:

Why do training facilities need to be on the same site you use 20-25 days a year? It's very rare for clubs to have their stadium and training ground in the same place so how have they convinced you it's somehow important?

 

Also, far more expensive than what? If anyone genuinely thinks your plans for a 20,000 capacity stadium plus training facilities, including infrastructure like bridges and what have you will come in at 50 million they're kidding themselves 

 

Based on our stand costs, that's buttery in the sky. The thing with an out of town custom-built stadium that it only has a chance of working and increasing crowds if it's genuinely impressive and innovative and that takes money. A flat pack stadium would be a disaster for them. 

 

They're only expecting to get 18m max it seems for Pittodrie's land. Plus the way Westminster are managing things the whole UK economy could easily crash and bring prices down. That leaves a huge amount to borrow or beg for, plus whatever disruption affects the team.

 

And all for a stadium in a field, with freezing, wind-swept training pitches. "Come to Aberdeen to play and freeze your nuts off at training for 3 months of the year." Unless it'll be covered training like Hibs shed which did absolutely nothing to improve the team or bring through better youth players. I'm not fussed what they do but have strong feelings about out of town stadiums when they're not really needed. Bad for football, the environment, town centres...

 

If this is above the snow line or whatever, surely the training pitches will be covered!

 

Edited December 15, 2017 by socrates82

[Phage]

It'll be go for the regular Elton John concert up in Aberdeen.....

 

Infact wait a minute, it'll be crap. 6 miles and a bus or taxi ride back to a boozer with 20000 others all thinking the same.

 

Hope its a disaster hate that slimeball Milne

[jambo1961]

 Aberdeen and there new Stadium, how long has this saga been going on ?? seriously

[sadj]

2 hours ago, Thomaso said:

 

I like the uniformity - rather than the monstrosities built at the ends of Fir Park and Pittodrie!

Spot on

[Watt-Zeefuik]

Pardon me while I hijack this thread for personal reasons.

 

Any of the sheep on here (or Aberdeenshire Jambos for that matter) tell me anything about Portlethen? 

[sadj]

1 hour ago, Smithee said:

Why do training facilities need to be on the same site you use 20-25 days a year? It's very rare for clubs to have their stadium and training ground in the same place so how have they convinced you it's somehow important?

 

Also, far more expensive than what? If anyone genuinely thinks your plans for a 20,000 capacity stadium plus training facilities, including infrastructure like bridges and what have you will come in at 50 million they're kidding themselves 

I think the expense would be in the fact the lamd is limited in one direction and locked in another so it would require 3stands knocked down and rebuilt and one moved so the pitch could be moved to allow the stadium to be redeveloped properly. However as you state the expense of building the proposed staium for 50million in the current climate without massive overspend is highly unlikely unless as I said Milne absorbs the overspend which is again unlikely

[sadj]

4 minutes ago, Ugly American said:

Pardon me while I hijack this thread for personal reasons.

 

Any of the sheep on here (or Aberdeenshire Jambos for that matter) tell me anything about Portlethen? 

What ya wanting to know about Portie im sitting in my lasses house there just now so can hopefully help. Pm me 

Edited December 15, 2017 by sadj

[i8hibsh]

Will the HIVs have a 900,000,000 page thread on this?

[tian447]

The proposed plans look absolutely shite.

 

A flat-pack, soulless Ikeadrome miles outside of the town, that looks just like every other stadium that's done the same thing in the past.  Nothing bespoke, nothing adventurous, just a boring stadium in the middle of nowhere.

 

There's a reason that places like Tynecastle and Easter Road are so special to visit, and that's because they're where they are supposed to be - in the middle of the areas they represent.  

 

Apparently parking spaces are worth more than history.

[A_A wehatethehibs]

Just now, tian447 said:

The proposed plans look absolutely shite.

 

A flat-pack, soulless Ikeadrome miles outside of the town, that looks just like every other stadium that's done the same thing in the past.  Nothing bespoke, nothing adventurous, just a boring stadium in the middle of nowhere.

 

There's a reason that places like Tynecastle and Easter Road are so special to visit, and that's because they're where they are supposed to be - in the middle of the areas they represent.  

 

Apparently parking spaces are worth more than history.

 

To be fair the middle of nowhere is an improvement on the location of their current ground

 

Aberdeen

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

6 hours ago, IveSeenTheLight said:

 

All these points about snow lines are a moot point to be honest.

We've had our first flurry of snow in about 4 years and it has not impacted any of our games, home or away.

The game on Friday night went ahead, despite the weather conditions around Aberdeen and down to Stonehaven, so there was little thought for travelling fans as well.

 

Whilst the outside area may be exposed, the stadium plans indicate its an enclosed stadium, which will help for all you wooses that can't handle a wee dip in temperature

 

As for the training pitches, it does not run all the way east to the AWPR

 

White is the new black eh