The Working Class

[Adi Dassler]

Is there such a thing anymore?

 

Tonight as i walked home, past the junkies in the subway and avoiding the broken glass and dog sh**, it struck me that nobody really cares anymore.

 

The area i'm from, whilst never having been Ravelston Dykes, has been an okay place to stay over the years. Now though, i have to say it has turned into a ghetto.

 

Growing up i remember people having a bit of pride about themselves and were they came from. That is what i always associated with being working class. Nobody seems to have that now.

 

As i say it just struck me tonight that nobody cares anymore, and that made me a bit sad.

[Therapist]

There is no such thing as "working class". There is definitely an underclass but they are drawn from many different areas of society; rich, poor etc etc.

[maroonlegions]

There is no such thing as "working class". There is definitely an underclass but they are drawn from many different areas of society; rich, poor etc etc.

 

working class was a reference and name tag given to people who were , as you say below the threshold of the middle class who were mainly layers ,dentists , doctors, the working class were , factory workers, miners , joiners ect, the gap between the rich and poor has increased but people are people underneath when you strip all the labels away , it was a creation of the old British Empire and infested the 1900s up the present day.

[Taffin]

There is no such thing as "working class". There is definitely an underclass but they are drawn from many different areas of society; rich, poor etc etc.

 

I'd agree with that. Unfortunately that underclass is getting bigger and bigger.

[stevieC@pivot]

We at present have 2 generations of crap parents having crap kids (put crap in,get crap out),and now there`s grandkids!!

[Boris]

Adi,

 

here are some of my musings on the subject. Apologies if i sound like a stuck record...

 

I think what you have to realise is that in most cases "white collar" is now the domain of the working class.

 

Instead of industrial factories full of manual "blue collar" workers, you now have office factories full of "white collar" workers.

 

In my experience working in the financial sector it felt akin to a Henry Ford-esque production line except at the end of the process instead of a Model T rolling off the production line and new Pension Schemem was started, or endorsed etc etc etc

 

Call centres are, imho, a good example of "factory-isation" of "white collar" work.

 

Re the working class in general, of course they work hard. Perhaps they are referred to as the real worker as they are so numerous and are the essentially the majority of the workforce which creates the wealth etc etc

 

In Marxist terms, the "dole bludgers" and those "too feckin' lazy to work and scrounge of the state" are what would be classed as Lumpen Proletariat. It is of course useful for the capitalist press to refer to these lumpen proles as proletarian so as to undermine the actual plight of the true proletariat.

 

Although the "traditional" working class may have the trappings of the "middle class", what in fact is happening is the swelling of the working class (proletariat) as the numbers within the bourgeois/petit bourgeois decreases, as is consistent with Capitalism.

 

To think of the working class as dirty faced manual workers in traditional heavy industry is an anachronism.

[stevieC@pivot]

Adi,

 

here are some of my musings on the subject. Apologies if i sound like a stuck record...

 

So what you are really trying to say is :fat burds with thongs and tattoos and skinny guys with shaven heads are now our "miners " etc??

 

But you miss one crucial point,they (thong types etc ) go off sick at a whim,the real ones never did!!

 

No-one cares anymore,that the real cause !!

[Therapist]

I'd agree with that. Unfortunately that underclass is getting bigger and bigger.

 

You're right. And they're causing a disproportionate amount of problems for society as a whole. Personally, I'd have no problem with rounding them up and euthanising them in the way that we currently do with stray dogs.

[Boris]

So what you are really trying to say is :fat burds with thongs and tattoos and skinny guys with shaven heads are now our "miners " etc??

 

But you miss one crucial point,they (thong types etc ) go off sick at a whim,the real ones never did!!

 

No-one cares anymore,that the real cause !!

 

No. Not at all. What I am trying to say is that the thong wearing sicky throwing types are lumpen proles.

 

I agree though that there is a general sense of not caring though.

 

Perhaps marx was right when writing about alienation?

[Walter Kidd]

You're right. And they're causing a disproportionate amount of problems for society as a whole. Personally, I'd have no problem with rounding them up and euthanising them in the way that we currently do with stray dogs.

 

You should change your name to Dennis mate. You sound more like Thatcher each day.

 

Does your missus wear the trousers in your house then?

[Therapist]

You should change your name to Dennis mate. You sound more like Thatcher each day.

 

Does your missus wear the trousers in your house then?

 

Don't be bitter because durty Leeds are still languishing in Div 1.

 

Incidentally, Baroness Thatcher is the second greatest PM Great Britain has had, beaten only by Sir Winston Churchill.

[Walter Kidd]

Don't be bitter because durty Leeds are still languishing in Div 1.

 

Incidentally, Baroness Thatcher is the second greatest PM Great Britain has had, beaten only by Sir Winston Churchill.

 

Pity about John Terry sliding.

[Therapist]

Pity about John Terry sliding.

 

Yes.

 

And durty Leeds getting creamed by the mighty Doncaster.

 

Anyways, night Walt. Have a splendid weekend. There's always next season......

[Cobblers]

Incidentally, Baroness Thatcher is the second greatest PM Great Britain has had, beaten only by Sir Winston Churchill.

 

Both careers saved by the country having to go to war. Sort of puts them alongside George Bush Jnr.

[Boris]

Don't be bitter because durty Leeds are still languishing in Div 1.

 

Incidentally, Baroness Thatcher is the second greatest PM Great Britain has had, beaten only by Sir Winston Churchill.

 

In your humble opinion.

 

Clement Atlee is regularly in the top two when the question of greatest 20th Century PM is debated.

 

Asquith should also be up there imho.

[Therapist]

Both careers saved by the country having to go to war. Sort of puts them alongside George Bush Jnr.

 

Yes, I really wish Sir Winston Churchill hadn't stood up to the jolly japes of Nazi Germany. :rolleyes:

[Therapist]

Clement Atlee is regularly in the top two when the question of greatest 20th Century PM is debated.

 

Utter nonsense. I suggest you have been reading too many back copies of Pravda.

[Walter Kidd]

Anyway, there is no class or society. Thatcher seen to that, just like heavy industry, coal mining, ship building, car assembly, manufacturing.

 

She was a monster.

[Therapist]

Anyway, there is no class or society. Thatcher seen to that, just like heavy industry, coal mining, ship building, car assembly, manufacturing.

 

Economic forces, not Baroness Thatcher, "seen to that". Fact.

[Boris]

Utter nonsense. I suggest you have been reading too many back copies of Pravda.

 

It isn't nonsense. Atlee is usually in the top two when these things are debated.

 

Or do you mean that it is nonsense that people should place Atlee in the top two?

 

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,820238-6,00.html shows what Pravda thought of Atlee.

 

Given he was PM during the Berlin airlift as well...

[Walter Kidd]

Economic forces, not Baroness Thatcher, "seen to that". Fact.

 

I could go on, like the sinking of the Belgrano, the Westland affair, her dancing with dogma, monetary policy, selling off the silver, ERM.

 

And there's more which contributes to her not being the second best PM this country had.

 

Edit : I forgot to mention Council Tax.

[Cobblers]

Yes, I really wish Sir Winston Churchill hadn't stood up to the jolly japes of Nazi Germany. :rolleyes:

 

Great war time leader, but pretty mediocre at best prior to that and good old Maggie was well on her way out before the Falklands. I've never forgiven the Argie's for that.

[Boris]

Economic forces, not Baroness Thatcher, "seen to that". Fact.

 

Well it was the Police Force that seen to the miners. NOt sure if that counts as economic. Oh, and the army too.

 

That was another force. The only economics with that was the Thatcherite Junta's economy with the truth.

[Therapist]

Boris, Walt - I look forward to this debate. But not tonight. I have a heavy day ahead. Therefore I will bid you both adieu. Sleep well and don't have Thatcher/Churchill nightmares.

[Walter Kidd]

Salut mon ami. Bonne nuit.

[Boris]

Boris, Walt - I look forward to this debate. But not tonight. I have a heavy day ahead. Therefore I will bid you both adieu. Sleep well and don't have Thatcher/Churchill nightmares.

 

Hahaha

 

Don't worry. I won't.

 

FWIW Churchill was ok in my book. Right time, right place.

 

Boris

 

p.s. best check for reds under your bed!

[Walter Kidd]

Sssssh Boris. I think we had him on the ropes and he bottled it.

[Era Macaroons]

Well it was the Police Force that seen to the miners. NOt sure if that counts as economic. Oh, and the army too.

 

That was another force. The only economics with that was the Thatcherite Junta's economy with the truth.

 

you shouldnt really use the police n the army in the same breath

[Cobblers]

It's a bit ironic how Therapist rates Thatcher so highly. She probably did more for Scottish Independence than the SNP have ever managed themselves.

[stevieC@pivot]

No. Not at all. What I am trying to say is that the thong wearing sicky throwing types are lumpen proles.

 

I agree though that there is a general sense of not caring though.

 

Perhaps marx was right when writing about alienation?

 

indeed!

[Professor.Arturo]

WW2 was already started when Churchill came to power.

[mac]

Stevie, don't take this wrong, but I have to agree with you! Sounds to me like a fairly reasonable assessment of what's going wrong in our cry-baby culture - grow up, stop whining, and see it through, FFS!

 

So what you are really trying to say is :fat burds with thongs and tattoos and skinny guys with shaven heads are now our "miners " etc??

 

But you miss one crucial point,they (thong types etc ) go off sick at a whim,the real ones never did!!

 

No-one cares anymore,that the real cause !!

[flecktimus]

So what you are really trying to say is :fat burds with thongs and tattoos and skinny guys with shaven heads are now our "miners " etc??

 

But you miss one crucial point,they (thong types etc ) go off sick at a whim,the real ones never did!!

 

No-one cares anymore,that the real cause !!

 

Can i just add, skinny guy with shaven heads and Staffy terrier dug

[Stuart Lyon]

Taylor 1874 says the underclass is getting bigger and bigger- is that a reference to the obesity crisis?

[Adi Dassler]

Adi,

 

here are some of my musings on the subject. Apologies if i sound like a stuck record...

 

Interesting points Borishka, i can see what you're getting at.

 

Can think of only one of my mates who actually has a "trade" now.

 

The rest of us are what you call "white collar" workers. Banks, insurance companies, legal firms etc. The thing is, when we at school that's what we were encouraged to do, it was all computers computers computers. And while we all earn decent enough money there is only so far you can go in terms of career advancement. Few of my mates went to Uni, for all the good it done them, one now works in a bookies.

[coppercrutch]

I don't class people on where they come from or what they work as. Some of the sharpest people out there are builders etc.. and some of the dumbest ***** work in 'high flying' jobs.

 

I just hate ****. **** can come from any background, from Niddrie to Ravelston.

 

Of course you get more **** in places like Niddrie but you also get decent people there.

 

I think this is about 'us' and 'them'.

 

'Us' being people who work and are happy to look after themselves. But are aware that there is a safety net in place that we can use if we DESPERATELY need it.

 

'Them' being those parasites who do not want to work. They take advantage of every benefit going just to carry on their pathetic existence of a non-working lazy, selfish lifestyle.

 

Hitler had the right idea, just the wrong people. I would quite happily support the rounding up and mass gassing of ****. Harsh but true. They add nothing to this world. They have no point in existing. They may as well be disposed of.

[davemclaren]

 

Hitler had the right idea, just the wrong people. I would quite happily support the rounding up and mass gassing of ****. Harsh but true. They add nothing to this world. They have no point in existing. They may as well be disposed of.

 

If you truly believe that then you have certainly gone down a lot in my estimation.

 

There are some parasites in society but there are others who can't support themselves because they are not capable of doing so one way or other. Neither group deserve what you suggest however.

[Ulysses]

Hitler had the right idea, just the wrong people. I would quite happily support the rounding up and mass gassing of ****. Harsh but true. They add nothing to this world. They have no point in existing. They may as well be disposed of.

 

 

What sort of psychopath are you?

[Deek]

Hitler had the right idea, just the wrong people. I would quite happily support the rounding up and mass gassing of ****. Harsh but true. They add nothing to this world. They have no point in existing. They may as well be disposed of.

 

 

Facist

[coppercrutch]

If you truly believe that then you have certainly gone down a lot in my estimation.

 

There are some parasites in society but there are others who can't support themselves because they are not capable of doing so one way or other. Neither group deserve what you suggest however.

 

That is who I am talking about. Not those who simply can't look after themselves. That was made very clear in my post.

 

Those that need help - the elderly, disabled etc.. get a massive improvement in their care and support. Those that are a scourge on society get left to rot. Everyone is happy except for ****bags. I don't give a **** about what they think.

 

The problem with this idea is....................

[coppercrutch]

What sort of psychopath are you?

 

If a psychopath thinks that people who CHOOSE not to work for a living should be left to rot.

 

If a psychopath is a person who thinks the money we all pay in taxes should go to those that NEED it rather than those that WANT it.

 

If a psychopath thinks the World would be a better place if these lazy losers just disappeared.

 

Well yes I am a psychopath. I imagine there are many other millions of fellow 'psychopaths' in this country too......................

[Deek]

If a psychopath thinks that people who CHOOSE not to work for a living should be left to rot.

 

Hitler had the right idea, just the wrong people. I would quite happily support the rounding up and mass gassing of ****

 

Do you belong in this world. That is one of the worst posts I have seen on kickback for a long time.

[coppercrutch]

Hitler had the right idea, just the wrong people. I would quite happily support the rounding up and mass gassing of ****

 

Do you belong in this world. That is one of the worst posts I have seen on kickback for a long time.

 

Serious question. I imagine you know the sort of people I am talking about. Let's say a group of ****bags who live near you. They make everyone's life a misery. They smash people's windows. They don't work. They take every drug under the sun. They steal regularly. They never plan to work. They are always wasted. You know the type...

 

If you heard they had been rounded up and disposed off would you really care ? Honestly would you give a toss ?

 

Now the situation I am talking about is a hypothetical one. I don't really want a situation where the Government is doing that kind of thing. I don't trust them to get it right.

 

However, hypothetically, I would be happier if these sort of people were just removed from society. I imagine many other people would be too. The simple way to do this to stop supporting them. Maybe gassing them is a bit excessive. But as I have said it wouldn't bother me.

[Ulysses]

 

If you heard they had been rounded up and disposed off would you really care ? Honestly would you give a toss ?

 

Yes, because it would be morally reprehensible. In fact it would be evil. I saw your pathetic attempt to weasel away from your crass and vulgar original position. I'm presuming it's because there are enough electrical impulses bouncing randomly around the space inside your skull to give you some sense that what you said was both morally repugnant and monumentally stupid.

 

Go the whole distance. Retract what you said without reservation and maybe you'll recover some respect. If you can't do that, maybe you should just slither off somewhere into the shadows.

[John Findlay]

As you will know I dont regard myself as any class. I dislike immensely the terms working class, middle class and upper class.

 

All I will say for myself is that in 1990 I once walked 10 miles to round every agency looking for work. I found a job in a bakery for ?2.50 an hour. I then walked the 10 miles back home.

 

I did this job until something better came along.

 

Many would say I was daft but, I will always work if I can.

 

I was out of work from July 2005 to Nov 2005 and I hated signing on. The fact I had was all the incentive I needed to gain employment again.

 

Sadly there are to many nowadays who would rather rely on the taxpayer through the state providing their living.

 

Now the really contentious bit.

 

Many of those who do rely on the state then either **** there money away or give it to their local bookmaker rather than use it for what it was intended.

 

That really gets up my nose.

 

I say all that as one who was brought up in West Pilton and is now living there again.

 

 

 

 

John

[coppercrutch]

Yes, because it would be morally reprehensible. In fact it would be evil. I saw your pathetic attempt to weasel away from your crass and vulgar original position. I'm presuming it's because there are enough electrical impulses bouncing randomly around the space inside your skull to give you some sense that what you said was both morally repugnant and monumentally stupid.

 

Go the whole distance. Retract what you said without reservation and maybe you'll recover some respect. If you can't do that, maybe you should just slither off somewhere into the shadows.

 

Oh the hypocrisy of someone trying to take the moral high ground...........

 

Am I not allowed my opinions ? I think **** should be disposed of. If you have a problem with that then fine. THAT IS YOUR RIGHT. THAT IS YOUR OPINION.

 

I am not telling you how to think.

You are telling me how to think.

 

Your abuse is really quite a poor show. As an administrator of this site I imagine most people would expect you to rise above that sort of thing. Clearly not.

 

"I will respect everyone else's opinions as long as they agree with my own"

 

Motto of Moral Highground Utd..

[coppercrutch]

As you will know I dont regard myself as any class. I dislike immensely the terms working class, middle class and upper class.

 

All I will say for myself is that in 1990 I once walked 10 miles to round every agency looking for work. I found a job in a bakery for ?2.50 an hour. I then walked the 10 miles back home.

 

I did this job until something better came along.

 

Many would say I was daft but, I will always work if I can.

 

I was out of work from July 2005 to Nov 2005 and I hated signing on. The fact I had was all the incentive I needed to gain employment again.

 

Sadly there are to many nowadays who would rather rely on the taxpayer through the state providing their living.

 

Now the really contentious bit.

 

Many of those who do rely on the state then either **** there money away or give it to their local bookmaker rather than use it for what it was intended.

 

That really gets up my nose.

 

I say all that as one who was brought up in West Pilton and is now living there again.

 

 

 

 

John

 

If everyone is this country was like you we would have far less problems.

 

Good on you.

[Therapist]

All I will say for myself is that in 1990 I once walked 10 miles to round every agency looking for work. I found a job in a bakery for ?2.50 an hour. I then walked the 10 miles back home.

 

 

Sing along.....

 

I'd walk 20 miles,

For one of your rolls

Oh Jo-oh-oh-nee

 

[davemclaren]

Sing along.....

 

I'd walk 20 miles,

For one of your rolls

Oh Jo-oh-oh-nee

 

 

export must be stronger than I remember.

[Tom Heaney]

Oh the hypocrisy of someone trying to take the moral high ground...........

 

Am I not allowed my opinions ? I think **** should be disposed of. If you have a problem with that then fine. THAT IS YOUR RIGHT. THAT IS YOUR OPINION.

 

I am not telling you how to think.

You are telling me how to think.

 

Your abuse is really quite a poor show. As an administrator of this site I imagine most people would expect you to rise above that sort of thing. Clearly not.

 

"I will respect everyone else's opinions as long as they agree with my own"

 

Motto of Moral Highground Utd..

 

Quite frankly CC you are bang out of order on this. You are entitled to your own views but on this occasion they should have been kept to yourself.

 

ULY was hardly posting as Admin on this subject, if he had I suspect it would have been to punt you