Neilson must deliver next season

[Thomaso]

Why did he set the team up in the narrow formation in the first place? He has tried that narrow formation before against Hibs where we are playing with no proper wingers and it didnt work. Why did he then make the same mistake and again have to change it at half time.

 

Evidence that Neilson is in fact not learning!

 

[Arthur Morgan]

IMO, it's because Neilson tries to neutralise opponents rather than letting them worry about us. That's always been my bugbear with Neilson - too much respect given to the opposing team.

Very much this.

[Thomaso]

IMO, it's because Neilson tries to neutralise opponents rather than letting them worry about us.  That's always been my bugbear with Neilson - too much respect given to the opposing team.

 

This fact was painfully on display in our first game at Dens last season.

 

Neilson changed our whole defensive set up to play Ozturk in front of the back four to counter act Rory Loy - who it turned out wasn't even playing!

 

It was a disaster and we should have been dead and buried before half time!  Thankfully he had no option but to revert back to playing players in their correct positions in the 2nd half, and we came back to win the game!

 

You would have thought there and then that the penny would drop that tinkering with the team to suit the opposition was not the way forward.

[Bauld]

I'll admit I want Neilson gone.. I've tried to analyse it and for me it comes down to this..

 

I was delighted with the Championship winning season (albeit not all games).. I am happy enough with 3rd although this is where I expected to finish..

 

To me I guess it all comes down to his record with Hibs.. the season in the Championship we sneaked the first derby victory then failed to win in the next 3 including a poor loss where the team didn't seem to know what it was doing tactics wise.. Then this season we were the team in the higher league and threw it away at Tynecastle before losing (it was made all the worse by Hibs going on and winning the cup)..

 

I expect my Hearts teams to go out and give it everything against Hibs and it seems that just doesn't happen.. They are hungrier than us from the first whistle.. Neilson should have seen this from the first game and adjusted his tactics.. Instead he made the same mistakes in the next 5 derbies..

 

To make it worse he shows us against Aberdeen in the cup game that he knows how to get his players to raise their game and just chooses not to for other games.. So then the shocking performances away just serve to build the case against him including some of the home games at the end of the season..

 

Don't really understand the poster who said people want him gone for non footballing reasons.. It's definitely for football reasons that I want him gone..

 

This season we finished 3rd. If we are to continue improving we need to finish 2nd which is the minimum i expect from next season.. finish 3rd and we are stagnating and he needs replaced.. finish 4th and we going backwards and if that is on the cards he shouldn't see out the season..

So on your logic if he wins the title next season but we meet hibs in the cup again and they pump us you would still want him sacked?

 

Because he's coasted the championship last season leaving hibs and rangers 20 points behind regardless of results against them.

 

He's coasted us to third this season with an inexperienced squad that was untested at this level. Getting us into Europe.

 

But all of that is irrelevant because of a bad result against hibs?

 

 

That's a hibs thing. The success of a season for hibs is based purely on their results against us. Because their shite, big cup win aside they have Hibsed the league cup and promotion. It's been a disaster for them that won't hit home until August.

 

If we continue on our current ascendancy we won't measure success against hibs anymore. Within 2-3 years we will measure our success on the league titles and cups we are competing to win. Perhaps even qualification for the Europa group stages.

 

For the first time in a long time we are an actual project that is being built properly. With time and effort spent on planning every step.

 

After all they have done for us so far we owe it to them to at least allow those in charge to see the plan through and find out where it takes us.

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

Funny how folk were far happier with a 3 1 defeat to Celtic rather than the 0 0 draw.

 

Which only proves to me Neilson gets better results when he doesn't listen to amateurs

[JamboX2]

IMO, it's because Neilson tries to neutralise opponents rather than letting them worry about us. That's always been my bugbear with Neilson - too much respect given to the opposing team.

Done it against St Johnstone as well in the final batch of matches.

[Joe Hearts]

IMO, it's because Neilson tries to neutralise opponents rather than letting them worry about us.  That's always been my bugbear with Neilson - too much respect given to the opposing team.

Very much this.

[Thomaso]

Funny how folk were far happier with a 3 1 defeat to Celtic rather than the 0 0 draw.

 

Which only proves to me Neilson gets better results when he doesn't listen to amateurs

 

"folk"?  Care to name some names there?

[RussAsia]

So on your logic if he wins the title next season but we meet hibs in the cup again and they pump us you would still want him sacked?

 

Because he's coasted the championship last season leaving hibs and rangers 20 points behind regardless of results against them.

 

He's coasted us to third this season with an inexperienced squad that was untested at this level. Getting us into Europe.

 

But all of that is irrelevant because of a bad result against hibs?

 

 

That's a hibs thing. The success of a season for hibs is based purely on their results against us. Because their shite, big cup win aside they have Hibsed the league cup and promotion. It's been a disaster for them that won't hit home until August.

 

If we continue on our current ascendancy we won't measure success against hibs anymore. Within 2-3 years we will measure our success on the league titles and cups we are competing to win. Perhaps even qualification for the Europa group stages.

 

For the first time in a long time we are an actual project that is being built properly. With time and effort spent on planning every step.

 

After all they have done for us so far we owe it to them to at least allow those in charge to see the plan through and find out where it takes us.

 

The Championship season we exceeded expectations and nobody was complaining despite our poor performances against Hibs.. so most of what you have posted is nonsense..

 

He did well to beat the bottom 6 teams in almost every game that season so of course if The Rangers and Hibs couldn't do that we did well to finish so far ahead of the rest..

 

This season we have only met expectations and been shocking against Hibs.. That is why we can now look back on previous games and see that unless he improves he probably isn't good enough to take us forward..

 

FWIW I think Levein provides Hearts with excellent players.. of course not every signing will work out but he does very well in this aspect.. Budge of course is doing a great job.. It's only Neilson, who I think has no outside influence from Levein on tactics or selection, that is not working out as well as I had hoped..

 

However he will now be given next season and as I have said he needs to finish top 2 so that we can say we have had a good season..

[Thomaso]

The Championship season we exceeded expectations and nobody was complaining despite our poor performances against Hibs.. so most of what you have posted is nonsense..

 

He did well to beat the bottom 6 teams in almost every game that season so of course if The Rangers and Hibs couldn't do that we did well to finish so far ahead of the rest..

 

This season we have only met expectations and been shocking against Hibs.. That is why we can now look back on previous games and see that unless he improves he probably isn't good enough to take us forward..

 

FWIW I think Levein provides Hearts with excellent players.. of course not every signing will work out but he does very well in this aspect.. Budge of course is doing a great job.. It's only Neilson, who I think has no outside influence from Levein on tactics or selection, that is not working out as well as I had hoped..

 

However he will now be given next season and as I have said he needs to finish top 2 so that we can say we have had a good season..

 

 

Sure about that??

[Tiberius Stinkfinger]

There was a mods post about trolling prior to the cup final.

 

Sorry but this guy is far worse. Regular efforts to annoy with the same thread

Cash for clicks IMO.

[Bauld]

The Championship season we exceeded expectations and nobody was complaining despite our poor performances against Hibs.. so most of what you have posted is nonsense..

 

He did well to beat the bottom 6 teams in almost every game that season so of course if The Rangers and Hibs couldn't do that we did well to finish so far ahead of the rest..

 

This season we have only met expectations and been shocking against Hibs.. That is why we can now look back on previous games and see that unless he improves he probably isn't good enough to take us forward..

 

FWIW I think Levein provides Hearts with excellent players.. of course not every signing will work out but he does very well in this aspect.. Budge of course is doing a great job.. It's only Neilson, who I think has no outside influence from Levein on tactics or selection, that is not working out as well as I had hoped..

 

However he will now be given next season and as I have said he needs to finish top 2 so that we can say we have had a good season..

This season we have only met who's expectations?

 

We set a target of top 6 at the start of the season. That was genuine as well because not even the management team knew how the players could compete at this level.

 

As I've said previously in the thread the first 5 games have overhyped the team from a fans perspective.

 

Players like Pallardo who people on here were raving about were found out really soon after we stepped up.

 

Absolute nonsense to suggest we only met expectations this season. We have once again blasted passed them.

 

Had we kept Sow and Walker had stayed fit perhaps we would have finished second which would have been close to a miracle.

[Eldar Hadzimehmedovic]

Top 6 wasn't really the target. No wonder we pussied out against Hibs so much if that was the mentality. Also, third this year is hardly the same as when Levein did it twelve or so years ago - we finished on the same points as ICT did in third last year and absolutely nobody lost their shit over that.

[Hendricks]

Funny how folk were far happier with a 3 1 defeat to Celtic rather than the 0 0 draw.

 

Which only proves to me Neilson gets better results when he doesn't listen to amateurs

 

Please tell me you are not trying to claim some sort of success story for Neilson with the 0-0 at Parkhead. The only thing Neilson was successful at that day was getting lucky. The 3-1 defeat there saw us play fairly well for about 20 minutes which is about as long as we have played well in any game against them, Rangers or Hibs in his spell in charge. In general terms we have barely laid a finger on Celtic in any of his 6 matches against them though we did deserve some credit for the 2-2 at Tynecastle.

[Watt-Zeefuik]

RussAsia's posts are as honest and reflective and in-touch with reality as any I've seen in the "Robbie oot" camp.  Even though I strongly disagree, it's far better than the frothing that the OP regularly serves up.

 

To me, if the ultimate goal of a Hearts manager is to give a GIRUY to the Hibs every season and league position and European qualification is unimportant, that's a pathetic, small-club mentality.  It's a defeated mentality regarding the OF, the small bully's mentality -- it doesn't matter that we're the OF's whipping boys, so long as there's someone smaller than us on the other side of town we can beat up on.

 

I want to beat Hibs, and as I posted above I think if there's a cup derby next season Robbie absolutely has to win it, but I also refuse to give up going head-to-head with the OF and only care about beating the Easter Rodents regularly.  If we won a league title and lost four matches to the Hibs (probably impossible to pull off but anyway), I wouldn't give a fig about those derbies and frankly, aside from some bold talk to cover the hurt, neither would they.

[systemx]

Top 6 wasn't really the target. No wonder we pussied out against Hibs so much if that was the mentality. Also, third this year is hardly the same as when Levein did it twelve or so years ago - we finished on the same points as ICT did in third last year and absolutely nobody lost their shit over that.

Can you show us the evidence from management and owner that" top six wasnt really the target" or did you just make it up?

[Watt-Zeefuik]

Can you show us the evidence from management and owner that" top six wasnt really the target" or did you just make it up?

 

You mean aside from multiple press conferences where the owner, DoF, and manager all said that?

[Lambo85]

IMO, it's because Neilson tries to neutralise opponents rather than letting them worry about us.  That's always been my bugbear with Neilson - too much respect given to the opposing team.

 

I totally agree with you however that is still no reason to play a formation that didnt work against the same team a year ago. It didnt work then so why did he think it was going to work now?

Not only did he not learn his lesson from a year ago but he basically just carried on at the start of the replay the way the first match at Tynecastle ended. Us on the back foot and trying to neutralise Hibs threat.

 

1. Robbie set us up totally wrong in 3 out of the 4 derby matches last season leading to 2 lucky draws (where we scored wonder goals to get an undeserved point) and a 2-0 defeat (one of the worst derby performances Ive seen from us in years).

 

2. 2-0 at half time at home and Robbie obvously told the team to park the bus and defend what we have rather than going out and score a 3rd and killing the tie. Leads to Hibs destroying us in the 2nd half and scoring 2 goals in the last 10 minutes to earn a replay. Funny thing, after Hibs scored the equaliser Robbie told the team to push up the park and this led to us almost scoring a winner in injury time proving once again that we are much better playing on the front foot.

 

3. Robbie sets us up in the replay in a narrow negative formation that he tried before against Hibs that did not work. This leads to a terrible first half performance where we were lucky to go in at half time just 1-0 down. He changes it to a proper 4-4-2 in the second half and all of a sudden we are the better team because we are attacking and playing on the front foot.

 

All this evidence here suggests that Robbie is not learning his lessons. I am willing to give Robbie until Christmas but if he is showing no signs of learning and making the same mistakes that he made last season, then questions need to be asked. Its probably just as well Hibs are still in the Championship for Robbie's sake because I cant see him being able to set us up to go out and win a derby match.

Edited May 25, 2016 by Lambo85

[Eldar Hadzimehmedovic]

You guys are naive beyond belief if you thought this management team would have been happy with 6th.

 

It's over 30 years since Hearts wouldn't have considered 6th a terrible season.

Edited May 25, 2016 by Diana Prince

[JamboJohn1874]

Funny how folk were far happier with a 3 1 defeat to Celtic rather than the 0 0 draw.

 

Which only proves to me Neilson gets better results when he doesn't listen to amateurs

 

You clearly didn't go to the game as it was 0 0, going on 8 0 for Celtic. It was a total backs to the wall fluke that we didn't concede. 

 

Not only did Neilson bore the Celtic supporters to death with his anti-football, he managed to do the same to those of us who travelled. It was excruciating.

[Watt-Zeefuik]

I really can't be bothered with complaints about the cup derbies that don't reckon with Sow's departure, Rossi's absence, and Ozturk's injury.

 

Our back line in the second half of the first derby was, by necessity, Paterson, Augustyn, McGhee, and Oshaniwa, FFS.  We got Rossi back in the second one but he was barely able to go, having to be subbed off by full time.

[pcw1874]

You clearly didn't go to the game as it was 0 0, going on 8 0 for Celtic. It was a total backs to the wall fluke that we didn't concede. 

 

Not only did Neilson bore the Celtic supporters to death with his anti-football, he managed to do the same to those of us who travelled. It was excruciating.

Being entertaining for Celtic supporters should never, ever be a consideration for a manager of Hearts.

[the big show]

I totally agree with you however that is still no reason to play a formation that didnt work against the same team a year ago. It didnt work then so why did he think it was going to work now?

Not only did he not learn his lesson from a year ago but he basically just carried on at the start of the replay the way the first match at Tynecastle ended. Us on the back foot and trying to neutralise Hibs threat.

 

1. Robbie set us up totally wrong in 3 out of the 4 derby matches last season leading to 2 lucky draws (where we scored wonder goals to get an undeserved point) and a 2-0 defeat (one of the worst derby performances Ive seen from us in years).

 

2. 2-0 at half time at home and Robbie obvously told the team to park the bus and defend what we have rather than going out and score a 3rd and killing the tie. Leads to Hibs destroying us in the 2nd half and scoring 2 goals in the last 10 minutes to earn a replay. Funny thing, after Hibs scored the equaliser Robbie told the team to push up the park and this led to us almost scoring a winner in injury time proving once again that we are much better playing on the front foot.

 

3. Robbie sets us up in the replay in a narrow negative formation that he tried before against Hibs that did not work. This leads to a terrible first half performance where we were lucky to go in at half time just 1-0 down. He changes it to a proper 4-4-2 in the second half and all of a sudden we are the better team because we are attacking and playing on the front foot.

 

All this evidence here suggests that Robbie is not learning his lessons. I am willing to give Robbie until Christmas but if he is showing no signs of learning and making the same mistakes that he made last season, then questions need to be asked. Its probably just as well Hibs are still in the Championship for Robbie's sake because I cant see him being able to set us up to go out and win a derby match.

Totally agree 100% with you and would further it by saying he done it in a few other games as well . The sooner he realizes that most of this team are not comfortable playing in this manner and starts to play to there strengths the better . A lot of the away games was diabolical .

[Lambo85]

I really can't be bothered with complaints about the cup derbies that don't reckon with Sow's departure, Rossi's absence, and Ozturk's injury.

 

Our back line in the second half of the first derby was, by necessity, Paterson, Augustyn, McGhee, and Oshaniwa, FFS.  We got Rossi back in the second one but he was barely able to go, having to be subbed off by full time.

 

And I cant be bothered with excuse makers that think the reason that Hibs emptied us out the cup was all down to our injuries and nothing to do with our manager and the way he set up the team.

 

Our back 4 for the second half in the first derby -

Paterson - natural right back who has just been called up for Scotland

Augustyn - Natural centre half

McGhee - Natural centre half and Scotland under 21 captain

Oshinawa - Natural left back who has world cup experience

 

Hardly a makeshift back 4 with players playing out of position was it? Maybe if we had played a bit more on the front foot in the second half and actually tried to score a 3rd, then we wouldnt have had to rely on our defence as much as we did.

Edited May 25, 2016 by Lambo85

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

Denial that negative tactics are actually more profitable than gallantry.

 

What I would say is that I would be far more bolder at places like Hamilton.

 

But then that didn't go exactly to plan either. A point more when the tactics were conservative.

 

To be frank I expect better players another year of experience and a platform now to be more aggressive.

 

My point is we have done this to death and nothing new will emerge to June 30 so basically it's trolling

[Watt-Zeefuik]

And I cant be bothered with excuse makers that think the reason that Hibs emptied us out the cup was all down to our injuries and nothing to do with our manager and the way he set up the team.

 

Our back 4 for the second half in the first derby -

Paterson - natural right back who has just been called up for Scotland

Augustyn - Natural centre half

McGhee - Natural centre half and Scotland under 21 captain

Oshinawa - Natural left back who has world cup experience

 

Hardly a makeshift back 4 with players playing out of position was it? Maybe if we had played a bit more on the front foot in the second half and actually tried to score a 3rd, then we wouldnt have had to rely on our defence as much as we did.

 

McGhee was playing not long after the Aberdeen handball fiasco and clearly had shot confidence, he was shaky all over the park.  And I've been in Oshaniwa's corner in that I think he's got some attacking creativity that may eventually come good, but if you're going to go out and defend his defensive positioning, you go ahead and stick your neck out and do that.

[Lambo85]

McGhee was playing not long after the Aberdeen handball fiasco and clearly had shot confidence, he was shaky all over the park.  And I've been in Oshaniwa's corner in that I think he's got some attacking creativity that may eventually come good, but if you're going to go out and defend his defensive positioning, you go ahead and stick your neck out and do that.

 

I am not a fan of Oshaniwa. He has been a crap signing but what I am saying is we were playing a back 4 with 4 out of the 4 players playing in their natural positions.

 

The defence held out for 35 minutes but again, had Robbie pushed the players up the park and tried to score a 3rd then we would not have to had to rely as heavily as we did on our back 4. We basically just sat everyone behind the ball to defend wave after wave of Hibs attack. It was pathetic to be honest.

[Watt-Zeefuik]

I am not a fan of Oshaniwa. He has been a crap signing but what I am saying is we were playing a back 4 with 4 out of the 4 players playing in their natural positions.

 

The defence held out for 35 minutes but again, had Robbie pushed the players up the park and tried to score a 3rd then we would not have to had to rely as heavily as we did on our back 4. We basically just sat everyone behind the ball to defend wave after wave of Hibs attack. It was pathetic to be honest.

 

I cannot believe we're still relitigating that stupid game, but anyway...

 

On this "natural position" point, I really have no idea what you're trying to argue.  They were players in their natural position, playing them badly at the time, demonstrating real danger of giving up bad mistakes.  I am not sure how that's supposed to reflect on Neilson.

 

Robbie was heard by many in the main stand to be yelling, "push up the park! press them!" throughout the period where we were back on our heels.  (Reported by and confirmed by both JKB posters and interviews with the players themselves.) It was obvious that the more advanced players themselves had no faith in the back line to hold its own, as evidenced by the basic mistakes they were making even with cover from the midfield.  Pallardo was getting run past at every turn, Dauda clearly didn't understand what his pressing role was, and Cowie (who had to come in for Buaben, also injured at the 10 minute mark) had been with the team less than a week and was barely match fit.

 

In short, we had a team of second choices, new signings, and slow players on the park, and we had a 2-0 lead at home.  And EVEN WITH THAT Robbie was telling the players to get up the park, but the players themselves simply weren't comfortable leaving McGhee and Oshaniwa exposed on that flank, so were sitting deep and preserving their energy.

 

It was a mess, yes.  It was also a mess born of a really bad personnel situation.

[RussAsia]

RussAsia's posts are as honest and reflective and in-touch with reality as any I've seen in the "Robbie oot" camp.  Even though I strongly disagree, it's far better than the frothing that the OP regularly serves up.

 

To me, if the ultimate goal of a Hearts manager is to give a GIRUY to the Hibs every season and league position and European qualification is unimportant, that's a pathetic, small-club mentality.  It's a defeated mentality regarding the OF, the small bully's mentality -- it doesn't matter that we're the OF's whipping boys, so long as there's someone smaller than us on the other side of town we can beat up on.

 

I want to beat Hibs, and as I posted above I think if there's a cup derby next season Robbie absolutely has to win it, but I also refuse to give up going head-to-head with the OF and only care about beating the Easter Rodents regularly.  If we won a league title and lost four matches to the Hibs (probably impossible to pull off but anyway), I wouldn't give a fig about those derbies and frankly, aside from some bold talk to cover the hurt, neither would they.

 

In no place have I said that giving a GIRUY to Hibs every season is the only goal (otherwise there would have been more noise from the "Robbie oot" camp during the Championship season).. However they are our city rivals.. Manager after manager has understood this and had our team up for playing in these games.. Robbie hasn't for any of them.. Now you can make excuses such as injuries or the fact that we had already secured the Championship (I remember going to Easter Road during some of the Romanov years and learning the line up in the pub beforehand.. Quite often I had no idea what was going on in the head of whoever picked the team).. but the team went out and did their best and at least gave 100% for the fans who had made the game and those watching it on TV.. these games matter and if Robbie doesn't understand this then I don't see how he can continue without excelling in other areas (cup runs, league challenges)..

 

Overall league placings and constant improvement is what keeps our managers in a job.. However beating Hibs is the staple that gives them the time to do that..

Edited May 25, 2016 by RussAsia

[Thomaso]

I cannot believe we're still relitigating that stupid game, but anyway...

 

On this "natural position" point, I really have no idea what you're trying to argue.  They were players in their natural position, playing them badly at the time, demonstrating real danger of giving up bad mistakes.  I am not sure how that's supposed to reflect on Neilson.

 

Robbie was heard by many in the main stand to be yelling, "push up the park! press them!" throughout the period where we were back on our heels.  (Reported by and confirmed by both JKB posters and interviews with the players themselves.) It was obvious that the more advanced players themselves had no faith in the back line to hold its own, as evidenced by the basic mistakes they were making even with cover from the midfield.  Pallardo was getting run past at every turn, Dauda clearly didn't understand what his pressing role was, and Cowie (who had to come in for Buaben, also injured at the 10 minute mark) had been with the team less than a week and was barely match fit.

 

In short, we had a team of second choices, new signings, and slow players on the park, and we had a 2-0 lead at home.  And EVEN WITH THAT Robbie was telling the players to get up the park, but the players themselves simply weren't comfortable leaving McGhee and Oshaniwa exposed on that flank, so were sitting deep and preserving their energy.

 

It was a mess, yes.  It was also a mess born of a really bad personnel situation.

 

Irrespective of whether or not he was shouting at them to push up the park, there was no out ball upfront. Robbie had aleady made his first big mistake starting with Dauda who was way off the pace and obviously not match fit.

 

My biggest complaint however was that Neilson had Reilly sitting back playing almost as an auxiliary RB marking Hibs LB throughout the whole of the 2nd half.

[Watt-Zeefuik]

Irrespective of whether or not he was shouting at them to push up the park, there was no out ball upfront. Robbie had aleady made his first big mistake starting with Dauda who was way off the pace and obviously not match fit.

 

My biggest complaint however was that Neilson had Reilly sitting back playing almost as an auxiliary RB marking Hibs LB throughout the whole of the 2nd half.

This is absolutely a fair point, except that in Dauda's case, aside from actually playing Sow instead of sitting him in the stands, the other option was Juanma, who had been playing very poorly as of late.

 

The point about Reilly is a good one and is Neilson admittedly overthinking things.

[Ron Burgundy]

If we win a cup next season I won't care if we finish 3rd 4th or even 8th.

 

Fortune favours the brave so our safety first approach to big games means it's highly unlikely.

[jambo1961]

I totally agree with you however that is still no reason to play a formation that didnt work against the same team a year ago. It didnt work then so why did he think it was going to work now?

Not only did he not learn his lesson from a year ago but he basically just carried on at the start of the replay the way the first match at Tynecastle ended. Us on the back foot and trying to neutralise Hibs threat.

 

1. Robbie set us up totally wrong in 3 out of the 4 derby matches last season leading to 2 lucky draws (where we scored wonder goals to get an undeserved point) and a 2-0 defeat (one of the worst derby performances Ive seen from us in years).

 

2. 2-0 at half time at home and Robbie obvously told the team to park the bus and defend what we have rather than going out and score a 3rd and killing the tie. Leads to Hibs destroying us in the 2nd half and scoring 2 goals in the last 10 minutes to earn a replay. Funny thing, after Hibs scored the equaliser Robbie told the team to push up the park and this led to us almost scoring a winner in injury time proving once again that we are much better playing on the front foot.

 

3. Robbie sets us up in the replay in a narrow negative formation that he tried before against Hibs that did not work. This leads to a terrible first half performance where we were lucky to go in at half time just 1-0 down. He changes it to a proper 4-4-2 in the second half and all of a sudden we are the better team because we are attacking and playing on the front foot.

 

All this evidence here suggests that Robbie is not learning his lessons. I am willing to give Robbie until Christmas but if he is showing no signs of learning and making the same mistakes that he made last season, then questions need to be asked. Its probably just as well Hibs are still in the Championship for Robbie's sake because I cant see him being able to set us up to go out and win a derby match.

Pretty much my train of thought as well

[Arthur Morgan]

I don't understand Robbie's mentality when it comes to the Derby games because he was our RB in great Hearts sides who handed out a fair few doings to Hibs, you would think he would know what it's all about and set us up to have a right good go at them form the first whistle but he hasn't.

[Big Slim Stylee]

This season we have only met who's expectations?

 

We set a target of top 6 at the start of the season. That was genuine as well because not even the management team knew how the players could compete at this level.

 

As I've said previously in the thread the first 5 games have overhyped the team from a fans perspective.

 

Players like Pallardo who people on here were raving about were found out really soon after we stepped up.

 

Absolute nonsense to suggest we only met expectations this season. We have once again blasted passed them.

 

Had we kept Sow and Walker had stayed fit perhaps we would have finished second which would have been close to a miracle.

 

You're wasting your time talking common sense to that absolute dribbler, tbh.

[Smith&Weston]

Robbie has his style unfortunately and it is not fast free-flowing football.

 

We have the nucleus of a good team with the likes of Paterson, Ozturk, Soutter, Djoum, Kitchen, Walker, Nicholson and even Juanma to an extent all quality players for SPL level.

 

If we can add 2-3 quality additions and play a bit faster and attacking, this team has potential.

 

Sadly, if we are setting up in a negative manner, our good players will not enjoy it and performances will suffer

[H2]

Robbie has his style unfortunately and it is not fast free-flowing football.

 

We have the nucleus of a good team with the likes of Paterson, Ozturk, Soutter, Djoum, Kitchen, Walker, Nicholson and even Juanma to an extent all quality players for SPL level.

 

If we can add 2-3 quality additions and play a bit faster and attacking, this team has potential.

 

Sadly, if we are setting up in a negative manner, our good players will not enjoy it and performances will suffer

Robbie has a number of styles, Season 1 and season 2 were completely different styles.

[John mcCartney]

 

 

To me, if the ultimate goal of a Hearts manager is to give a GIRUY to the Hibs every season and league position and European qualification is unimportant, that's a pathetic, small-club mentality.  It's a defeated mentality regarding the OF, the small bully's mentality -- it doesn't matter that we're the OF's whipping boys, so long as there's someone smaller than us on the other side of town we can beat up on.

 

 

have a word mate yeah,your twisting it all around to suit yourself

nobodies sayin we just concentrate on lochend

however,the bare minimum that heart of midlothian followers require is the maintenance of the capital city of scotlands

number one club

after all the club have been successful in this department for 33 years

written in stone,carved in wood ,traditions favour allegiance and a large fanbase

[ShaunAlex]

Aim high but let's also have a notion of the competition. Apparently Rodgers has a ?15m war chest. Rangers are takeable easily as they are, but signing Joey Barton should be seen as intent that they aren't totally broke and wouldn't surprise me if one or two big names follow. 

[@VladMagic]

"Neilson must deliver next season"

 

I will put my order in now. Chicken Chowmein,Crispy shredded beef, BBQ sauce and chips.

[The Real Maroonblood]

"Neilson must deliver next season"

 

I will put my order in now. Chicken Chowmein,Crispy shredded beef, BBQ sauce and chips.

Good choice.

[Bowmans_Boot]

RussAsia's posts are as honest and reflective and in-touch with reality as any I've seen in the "Robbie oot" camp.  Even though I strongly disagree, it's far better than the frothing that the OP regularly serves up.

 

To me, if the ultimate goal of a Hearts manager is to give a GIRUY to the Hibs every season and league position and European qualification is unimportant, that's a pathetic, small-club mentality.  It's a defeated mentality regarding the OF, the small bully's mentality -- it doesn't matter that we're the OF's whipping boys, so long as there's someone smaller than us on the other side of town we can beat up on.

 

I want to beat Hibs, and as I posted above I think if there's a cup derby next season Robbie absolutely has to win it, but I also refuse to give up going head-to-head with the OF and only care about beating the Easter Rodents regularly.  If we won a league title and lost four matches to the Hibs (probably impossible to pull off but anyway), I wouldn't give a fig about those derbies and frankly, aside from some bold talk to cover the hurt, neither would they.

 

From what you post, I doubt you really, really want us to beat Hibs, they appear to be just another team to you.

 

Regarding swapping caring about the Hibs matches with "going head-to-head with the OF" - we are nowhere near Celtic, absolutely nowhere near. We are seriously kidding ourselves if we believe we are going to compete with them next season. Maintaining what we achieved this season, and winning a cup would be a fantastic season. 

[ollie2004]

So on your logic if he wins the title next season but we meet hibs in the cup again and they pump us you would still want him sacked?

Because he's coasted the championship last season leaving hibs and rangers 20 points behind regardless of results against them.

He's coasted us to third this season with an inexperienced squad that was untested at this level. Getting us into Europe.

But all of that is irrelevant because of a bad result against hibs?

That's a hibs thing. The success of a season for hibs is based purely on their results against us. Because their shite, big cup win aside they have Hibsed the league cup and promotion. It's been a disaster for them that won't hit home until August.

If we continue on our current ascendancy we won't measure success against hibs anymore. Within 2-3 years we will measure our success on the league titles and cups we are competing to win. Perhaps even qualification for the Europa group stages.

For the first time in a long time we are an actual project that is being built properly. With time and effort spent on planning every step.

After all they have done for us so far we owe it to them to at least allow those in charge to see the plan through and find out where it takes us.

 

You are bang on the money mate, exactly as I see it. The Vermin are not in our league, quite literally, they are not our competition, we should be aiming higher and I like you believe AB, CL and RB etal are giving us the foundation to not just progress at home but also Europe where the big money is for Scottish clubs.

[Bowmans_Boot]

If we win a cup next season I won't care if we finish 3rd 4th or even 8th.

 

Fortune favours the brave so our safety first approach to big games means it's highly unlikely.

 

 

I would also take that. 

[Malcolm Tucker]

You clearly didn't go to the game as it was 0 0, going on 8 0 for Celtic. It was a total backs to the wall fluke that we didn't concede.

 

Not only did Neilson bore the Celtic supporters to death with his anti-football, he managed to do the same to those of us who travelled. It was excruciating.

 

We defended incredibly well, especially in the second half, just after we'd been beasted by Aberdeen at home. Augustyn, Rossi and Paterson were all fantastic and the midfield worked tirelessly to get a result. We could have nicked it in the end as well if Efe Ambrose hadn't sacrificed himself for the cause. Celtic players missing chances, being blocked or producing saves from Alexander isn't a fluke, it's football.

 

We defended badly 1 week, then we defended well the week after. That's a wee example of learning a lesson. It would be great if you had a look at your posting week on week, improved on the quality. Unfortunately you don't and we're left to analyse the tedious shit-show that is your posting history.

 

Learn from your mistakes bud.

[leginten]

I really can't be bothered with complaints about the cup derbies that don't reckon with Sow's departure, Rossi's absence, and Ozturk's injury.

 

Our back line in the second half of the first derby was, by necessity, Paterson, Augustyn, McGhee, and Oshaniwa, FFS. We got Rossi back in the second one but he was barely able to go, having to be subbed off by full time.

This is getting like the Hibs fans complaining that they missed O'Connor in the 2006 semi-final - pointless and petty once your club has cashed in on a saleable resource.

 

There is a wider point in what you say, though, and that is that the club left itself in a sorry mess at the end of the transfer window this year, in the full knowledge that its most important game of the season was imminent. Shipping out King and Gomis and then having to bring on Cowie - who looked as if he hadn't played since 2006 - early on was not clever. Nor was playing the untried Dauda from the start. This is a state of affairs that could and should have been avoided, and it is to be hoped that lessons have been learned for next year, when we will also have a match at the same time in the best competition we can currently realistically hope to win.

 

So far, so blameless for Robbie. But I really can't be bothered with defences of his second half tactics which pretend that the players disobeyed his instructions for 45 minutes (communication not possible?) and which use injuries and substitutions as an excuse for our stone-age, lump-it-out-of-defence hoofball. Because every time we attacked them - such as in the last three minutes, when we nearly scored three times after the equaliser had finally stung us into action - Hibs looked like conceding. They were quite obviously dreadful in defence and must have been crapping themselves about what might happen in the second half. These excuses fail to take into account the fact that Hibs were also affected by injuries and substitutions during the match.

 

It turns out that the club's preparation for and approach to the game have been very costly and have had very significant consequences. The whole thing was a mystery at the time, and it remains a mystery.

 

Oh, and you can't believe people are still dissecting this game? From three months-odd ago? People still complain, rightly, about Locke's inadequacies in the League Cup final, his butchering of a lead against nine-man ICT in the semi the next season, about McGlynn and Csaba's snooze-fest football, about Mad Eddie's madness and so on and so forth. Why do you want a statute of limitations on this game? Could it be because it was the culmination and low point of certain bizarre trends from this season that some people don't really want to discuss or acknowledge?

Edited May 25, 2016 by leginten

[Bowmans_Boot]

You are bang on the money mate, exactly as I see it. The Vermin are not in our league, quite literally, they are not our competition, we should be aiming higher and I like you believe AB, CL and RB etal are giving us the foundation to not just progress at home but also Europe where the big money is for Scottish clubs.

 

Do you really believe that? How do you predict we will perform in next season's Europa League, then? Or is it all part of the 5 Year Plan and so we are allowed to fail this one? 

[Malcolm Tucker]

Neilson definitely has improvements to make, there's zero doubts about that. However, as many have mentioned, he has absolutely earned the right to improve here at Hearts and try again this coming season.

 

"He must deliver" is some of the shannest patter going as well. Every manager in world football has to deliver, otherwise what's the point?

[Bowmans_Boot]

This is getting like the Hibs fans complaining that they missed O'Connor in the 2006 semi-final - pointless and petty once your club has cashed in on a saleable resource.

 

There is a wider point in what you say, though, and that is that the club left itself in a sorry mess at the end of the transfer window this year, in the full knowledge that its most important game of the season was imminent. Shipping out King and Gomis and then having to bring on Cowie - who looked as if he hadn't played since 2006 - early on was not clever. Nor was playing the untried Dauda from the start. This is a state of affairs that could and should have been avoided, and it is to be hoped that lessons have been learned for next year, when we will also have a match at the same time in the best competition we can currently realistically hope to win.

 

So far, so blameless for Robbie. But I really can't be bothered with defences of his second half tactics which pretend that the players disobeyed his instructions for 45 minutes (communication not possible?) and which use injuries and substitutions as an excuse for our stone-age, lump-it-out-of-defence hoofball. Because every time we attacked them - such as in the last three minutes, when we nearly scored three times after the equaliser had finally stung us into action - Hibs looked like conceding. They were quite obviously dreadful in defence and must have been crapping themselves about what might happen in the second half. These excuses fail to take into account the fact that Hibs were also affected by injuries and substitutions during the match.

 

It turns out that the club's preparation for and approach to the game have been very costly and have had very significant consequences. The whole thing was a mystery at the time, and it remains a mystery.

 

Oh, and you can't believe people are still dissecting this game? From three months-odd ago? People still complain, rightly, about Locke's inadequacies in the League Cup final, his butchering of a lead against nine-man ICT in the semi the next season, about McGlynn and Czaba's snooze-fest football, about Mad Eddie's madness and so on and so forth. Why do you want a statute of limitations on this game? Could it be because it was the culmination and low point of certain bizarre trends from this season that some people don't really want to discuss or acknowledge?

 

Excellent post. The cup match was absolutely crucial to our season, the most important match by far (as evidenced by the demand for tickets) and we completely failed. Regarding the players not listening to Robbie's instructions: wouldn't that be a weakness of the manager if the players chose to not listen to him? 

[Lambo85]

This is absolutely a fair point, except that in Dauda's case, aside from actually playing Sow instead of sitting him in the stands, the other option was Juanma, who had been playing very poorly as of late.

 

The point about Reilly is a good one and is Neilson admittedly overthinking things.

Wait a minute. In one post your telling me Neilson was screaming to press up but his players refused to do this because they did not trust our defence.

Then you are agreeing with another poster that you couldn't understand why Neilson was playing Reilly in an almost right back position to try and neutralise Hibs.

I thought you said it was all to do with our make shift defence and nothing to do with how Robbie had the team set up??

 

With the upmost respect, were you actually at the game? If not then I would take what these so called centre stand supporters said (about Robbie telling the team to push up) with a pinch of salt. The only time I saw Robbie telling us to push up was after Hibs scored the equaliser and funnily enough, we almost scored an injury time winner because of that.

Edited May 25, 2016 by Lambo85