Nielson must go!

[Rudolf's Mate]

See when we first met almost 30 years ago? I was just pretending to be a Hearts supporter.

 

It was the first step in my hoboplan to infultrate a Hearts website nearly 30 years in the future (even though the internet didn't exist back then).

 

I'm a fecking genius me.

If there was anything questionable about you it wasn't your football team

 

I've already mentioned the only thing I know so no point dragging it up again even though it was a fetching colour

 

Those were the days eh

[Auld Reekin']

Neilson must go...

 

Give it a ******* rest will ya.

[Bazzas right boot]

See when we first met almost 30 years ago?  I was just pretending to be a Hearts supporter.

 

It was the first step in my hoboplan to infultrate a Hearts website nearly 30 years in the future (even though the internet didn't exist back then).

 

I'm a fecking genius me.

 

Probably should have invested your time in some other adventure, if you knew all that you missed out inventing Facebook and a few quid!

[FarmerTweedy]

Interesting yet Ross County held them last week and Rangers put them out the cup a few week ago, Rangers clearly showed no inferior complex and matched Celtic, It's not just down to the players, the way you approach the game is key.

Aberdeen, a team who we have beaten twice have also beaten them.

 

At Parkhead we still missed a few chances, however far too often we look meek and in awe of Celtic, it's quite obvious, from our set up, right through to how most players perform.

 

It's no coincidence, imo that our best players v them are not Scottish, Kitchen, Djoum, Bauben and even Sow.

 

We  should play the team not the name, that goes for Rangers too, when we play them.

It's true they don't always win. It's true they don't always play well. They didn't really hit their stride in those games you mention, but they did against us, and our players couldn't cope. Some will argue that playing the right tactics against them will stop them hitting their stride, but in reality, they will be applying, or trying to, tactics of their own to counteract their opposition's. The fact that they have better players means that, more often than not, they'll either execute their tactics more successfully, or just produce more moments of individual quality, and win the game either way. That's football, or indeed pretty much any other team sport.

 

I'm not saying we shouldn't hope and aim to do better, but a record of two draws and three defeats this season against celtic, with the resources they have in comparison to ours, is not something that provides any support for the idea that we should change manager.

[FarmerTweedy]

If the board are under this impression then they should get rid of him.

 

Nonsense!

[portobellojambo1]

so when robbo said this week live on alba ( wednesday night ) that if Robbie was to be sacked or move on then any new manager coming in would have to adopt the same style/philosophy of play then would that mean that would be Robbie's way despite him not being here anymore ? says to me its not his style or philosophy that we are currently using at this moment in time so who's style or philosophy is it then ?

 

 

Apologies for the delay in responding, was in bed a bit earlier last night as I had an earlier start this morning and I'm not lon

 

Celtic have better players than us. The main reason they took control after we'd been ahead in Glasgow was because their players upped their game, and started playing better than ours, because they're better players. The main reason they took control after we'd equalised at Tynecastle was because their players are better than ours and upped their game, although boyh of their second half goals were down to calamitous errors by our defenders.

 

Neilson isn't faultless but our results against celtic this season are much more down to factors outwith his control than they are to any deficiencies he has.

 

 

In the 2-2 draw against Celtic just after Christmas do you think that our team managed to get a point from that game because (i) we put more emphasis on attack rather than sitting off them and allowing them to take control of the game or was it just a case of the only reason we got a point that day was because they had an off day (I actually thought Celtic played better that day than they did on Saturday past but by failing to sit off them and admire their play at Christmas we were able to compete but clearly there will be differences of opinion).

g home

[Boab]

Apologies for the delay in responding, was in bed a bit earlier last night as I had an earlier start this morning and I'm not lon

 

 

 

In the 2-2 draw against Celtic just after Christmas do you think that our team managed to get a point from that game because (i) we put more emphasis on attack rather than sitting off them and allowing them to take control of the game or was it just a case of the only reason we got a point that day was because they had an off day (I actually thought Celtic played better that day than they did on Saturday past but by failing to sit off them and admire their play at Christmas we were able to compete but clearly there will be differences of opinion).

g home

 

I would agree that they did play better in the earlier game. But for shocking defensive mistakes, we should really have taken at least another point off them on Saturday as they didn't impress. At 1-1 I was sure we'd get something. 

[Rudolf's Mate]

Nonsense!

 

I'm not talking about winning the league however what the other poster was saying is that we won't win anything else with Robbie in charge. If the board don't think we'll make progress under him then they absolutely should get rid as it doesn't fit in with their plan.

[Boab]

I'm not talking about winning the league however what the other poster was saying is that we won't win anything else with Robbie in charge. If the board don't think we'll make progress under him then they absolutely should get rid as it doesn't fit in with their plan.

The point is though is that they're not.

[FarmerTweedy]

 

6 wins out of 18 is pretty poor return imo.

Not something to be excited about.

Hamilton have won 6 away from home. Kilmarnock have won 5 and yet we are supposed to be happy winning 6?

We should be imo winning games away from home to the bottom 9, anything lass is points dropped. A draw is 2 points dropped.

I think even Levein/Neilson biggest fans would concede our away return/form has not been great and must look to improve on.

I'd agree with all of this except the winning away against the bottom 9 bit. Our away return/form certainly hasn't been great and we must indeed look to improve on it, but in our first season back in the top division, it's far from sacking material.

 

I'm expecting a fair bit more squad rebuilding in the summer, and it may well take a bit of time for things to bed down, but once we're past the first quarter or so of the season, I'd say we should be expecting to win roughly 60-70% of away games against the bottom 4 or 5, and 40-50% against the next 4 or 5. A few draws in the other games would give us roughly two points per game, which would be an excellent return away from home.

[Rudolf's Mate]

The point is though is that they're not.

 

Who do you mean by 'they're not?'

[Boab]

Who do you mean by 'they're not?'

 The board.

 

Your assertion is if the board don't think he can make progress then they have to get rid.

 

Why would he get a deal if that was the case ?

[FarmerTweedy]

The only positives from this season in my opinion:

 

• The purchases of Djoum, Kitchen
• ?1.5 million for Sow
• European football

Note : No actual game is a highlight.  It really has been a f'kn awful season.  

 

Our Cup runs

 

 

Hibs beating us

 

 

The amount of Red and Yellow cards

 

 

Winning only 17 games

 

 

 

Next season has to be an improvement. Hasn't it?

Winning 17 games was very decent for the first season back up. Beating Aberdeen twice were highlights. Gubbing Motherwell 6-0 was a highlight.

[Rudolf's Mate]

 The board.

 

Your assertion is if the board don't think he can make progress then they have to get rid.

 

Why would he get a deal if that was the case ?

 

He signed the new deal in Feb. I'm talking about now. If the board now feel he can't take us any further then they should IMO consider getting rid of him. Not right now but in the summer. That's IF they feel he can't take us further. 

[JamboJohn1874]

I would agree that they did play better in the earlier game. But for shocking defensive mistakes, we should really have taken at least another point off them on Saturday as they didn't impress. At 1-1 I was sure we'd get something.

Maroon tinted glasses on here i'm afraid. We had a good 15 minute spell but the game actually lasts 90 minutes and Celtic were all over us for the rest.

 

Worst Celtic team in my lifetime and I'm over 50 and we can't even get close, yet again.

 

The longer the season goes the further backwards we are moving. For the sake of season ticket sales, the club should act promptly.

 

If you really wish the supporter momentum of the last two years to fizzle away and not see sell outs at most games next season, keeping the manager on the books is the way to go.

 

Big game capitulation and awful away from home.

 

Neilson must go....

[Boab]

He signed the new deal in Feb. I'm talking about now. If the board now feel he can't take us any further then they should IMO consider getting rid of him. Not right now but in the summer. That's IF they feel he can't take us further. 

 

Well apart from on here, i've not heard anything of the sort being discussed.

 

A lot of ifs going on.

[JamboJohn1874]

The board.

 

Your assertion is if the board don't think he can make progress then they have to get rid.

 

Why would he get a deal if that was the case ?

Giving him a 3 year deal was a stupid thing to do and I said so at the time. It simply means it will cost us more to get rid of him. The honeymoon period with Neilson is over and he has been found out.

 

Neilson must go....

[Rudolf's Mate]

Well apart from on here, i've not heard anything of the sort being discussed.

 

A lot of ifs going on.

 

Someone posted comments which I answered and would expect would be the case at most top tiered clubs all over the world. If as the poster was saying, why would any club settle for not progressing further?  

[Boab]

Maroon tinted glasses on here i'm afraid. We had a good 15 minute spell but the game actually lasts 90 minutes and Celtic were all over us for the rest.

 

Worst Celtic team in my lifetime and I'm over 50 and we can't even get close, yet again.

 

The longer the season goes the further backwards we are moving. For the sake of season ticket sales, the club should act promptly.

 

If you really wish the supporter momentum of the last two years to fizzle away and not see sell outs at most games next season, keeping the manager on the books is the way to go.

 

Big game capitulation and awful away from home.

 

Neilson must go....

 

 

Giving him a 3 year deal was a stupid thing to do and I said so at the time. It simply means it will cost us more to get rid of him. The honeymoon period with Neilson is over and he has been found out.

 

Neilson must go....

 

You do cheer me up, John.

 

I know it isn't your intention but cheers anyway.

[Generic Username]

Trying too hard now

[JamboJohn1874]

Winning 17 games was very decent for the first season back up. Beating Aberdeen twice were highlights. Gubbing Motherwell 6-0 was a highlight.

Beating Motherwell was no big deal, they were embarrassingly bad, as are most teams in the league.

 

I suppose if I only went to home games I may think the season has been average. Unfortunately I have only missed a couple and like anyone else who goes to most of the away games world tell you, it's been awful.

 

Time for a change.

 

Neilson must go....

[Generic Username]

Trying way too hard

[Boab]

Beating Motherwell was no big deal, they were embarrassingly bad, as are most teams in the league.

 

I suppose if I only went to home games I may think the season has been average. Unfortunately I have only missed a couple and like anyone else who goes to most of the away games world tell you, it's been awful.

 

Time for a change.

 

Neilson must go....

 

What about the start of the season. John ?

 

I can think of two...maybe three aways off the top of my head that were good.

[Boab]

Trying way too hard

 

Not to burst out laughing ?

 

Probably right.

[Rabbie_Burns]

You do cheer me up, John.

 

I know it isn't your intention but cheers anyway.

Same for me Boab

[Generic Username]

I miss when we were a pub team and didn't give a shit about style/flair/entertainment (you know, all the things we used to ridicule Hibs for going on about) and focused on results.

 

Some caper.

[LeftBack]

Maroon tinted glasses on here i'm afraid. We had a good 15 minute spell but the game actually lasts 90 minutes and Celtic were all over us for the rest.

Worst Celtic team in my lifetime and I'm over 50 and we can't even get close, yet again.

The longer the season goes the further backwards we are moving. For the sake of season ticket sales, the club should act promptly.

If you really wish the supporter momentum of the last two years to fizzle away and not see sell outs at most games next season, keeping the manager on the books is the way to go.

Big game capitulation and awful away from home.

Neilson must go....

why don't u start a chant on Saturday?

[FarmerTweedy]

It is also the stated policy that we have a five year plan to work wonders. The reality is however, this is just a PR exercise to placate the support and keep FOH contributions flowing for the next few years in case we start to go backwards, like now.

I for one do not wish to see us drop any more points due to a new inexperienced or incompetent manager. And quite frankly we don't need to. The only reason we have had the last two managers without experience is because we were broke.

We are the third biggest club in Scotland with FOH contributions raking in a fortune. There is absolutely no reason to accept second best.

Unlike many here, I don't think Levein is responsible for the style of play and general running of the football team and woukd be quite happy to see him continue with whatever he does. Some of his signings have been excellent.

Its clear from this thread however that a huge number of people think change is required in the management for next season. If replicated out across the wider support, it is a serious body of people would like change.

It isn't clear at all. There's maybe a couple of dozen or so posters on here arguing a change of manager is required. I speak to around that number of Hearts fans on a fairly regular basis and they all think the idea of changing manager just now is utterly ridiculous. I'd wager they're a much more representative sample of the Hearts support than a bunch of largely anonymous posters on an internet forum.

 

That's not to say they're all entirely happy with how we're playing by the way, just that they're able to recognise that it can take time to build a squad, shape a team, and find a way of playing that gets the most out of a group of players on a regular basis, certainly longer in some cases than Neilson's had so far.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

I hope JamboJohn doesn't renew for next season.

[FarmerTweedy]

I'm not talking about winning the league however what the other poster was saying is that we won't win anything else with Robbie in charge. If the board don't think we'll make progress under him then they absolutely should get rid as it doesn't fit in with their plan.

The 'other poster' was me, and I didn't say anything about not making progress under him. I said we probably won't win a trophy under him, and we probably won't. If we replaced him, we probably wouldn't win a trophy under his replacement either, regardless of who that replacement might be. That's not a comment on RN's capabilities, or any replacement's capabilities, just an objective view based on how many trophies we've won in the last half century and the fact that at least one competitor club, and probably two, will have vastly greater financial resources than us in the next couple of years (and that's about as long as RN is likely to be here, one way or another).

 

You're right that the board should replace him if they don't think we'll make progress under him, but I hadn't said anything about that, and you didn't mention it either, so in context, your post was nonsense! Regarding what you actually meant, I expect the board probably do have confidence that we'll make progress under him, and therefore don't expect them to git rid of him.

[portobellojambo1]

so when robbo said this week live on alba ( wednesday night ) that if Robbie was to be sacked or move on then any new manager coming in would have to adopt the same style/philosophy of play then would that mean that would be Robbie's way despite him not being here anymore ? says to me its not his style or philosophy that we are currently using at this moment in time so who's style or philosophy is it then ?

 

Sorry for the delay in replying, I was in bed a bit earlier last night as I had an early start at work this morning, and I ain't long home. Gambo asked a reasonably similar question Saturday evening, i.e. how much of what we are doing is based on the thoughts of Craig Levein and I replied to him honestly. I don't know how much influence Craig Levein has, but there again I don't know how much input Robbie Neilson has or had. did they have time to discuss things together, absolutely, as Robbie was at the club for a period before being appointed as head coach/manager. I didn't hear the comments Robbo made during the TV presentation of the youth cup final, I did read something over this weekend where Robbie said they will not change the philosophy going forward which, in his words, is to play the ball out of defence by passing and moving, playing football. I don't think any HMFC fan has questioned that or would question that, as it isn't that which is causing the frustration. There were some comments Robbie made this season, which suggested/implied/indicated the man he learned most from/admired the most (it was a while back so I cannot remember the exact words) was Csaba Laszlo. Now you will have to forgive me but the only time I've been at football games and there were people inside the ground sitting sleeping, not as a result of too much drink, was when Laszlo was manager. His style of football was eye bleedingly painful to watch at times, and the football, especially away from home this season has been close to painful and definitely frustrating at times. Is it possible that the style/philosophy will never change going forward, irrespective of the manager, I would say it is possible, but if the philosophy is that we get HMFC developing defenders/players in general who are comfortable with the ball at their feet, then no complaints  The actual style of play we have used on a number of occasions this season against sides poorer than us in comparison with last season's very successful attacking style, who has that emanated from, I don't know.

 

Not sure if it answers your question, if it doesn't I apologise but I cannot provide the answer.

[Morgan]

I hope JamboJohn doesn't renew for next season.

Aye, there's a few like that spring to mind....

[Morgan]

Giving him a 3 year deal was a stupid thing to do and I said so at the time. It simply means it will cost us more to get rid of him. The honeymoon period with Neilson is over and he has been found out.

Neilson must go....

You posted 'us'.

 

You been drinking John?

 

HibbyJohn1875

[The Internet]

Over 50

[Texia]

Aye there's a fair comparison to be made between Neilson and Ferguson right enough.

There will be

[Eldar Hadzimehmedovic]

There will be

You really think he's that special?

[It should have been ten]

Robbie's staying, end off.

 

[CollyWolly]

Robbie's staying, end off.

 

Aye.

[The Real Maroonblood]

Maroon tinted glasses on here i'm afraid. We had a good 15 minute spell but the game actually lasts 90 minutes and Celtic were all over us for the rest.

Worst Celtic team in my lifetime and I'm over 50 and we can't even get close, yet again.

The longer the season goes the further backwards we are moving. For the sake of season ticket sales, the club should act promptly.

If you really wish the supporter momentum of the last two years to fizzle away and not see sell outs at most games next season, keeping the manager on the books is the way to go.

Big game capitulation and awful away from home.

Neilson must go....

Your over 50 but how long have you supported Hearts?

[500ClubCraig]

Okay so "our" Robbie is far from perfect but for a VERY young manager has achieved league success beyond that of many who are much more experienced and at a time our club was emerging from the embers of near extinction.

Be careful of what you wish for, there are so many examples of clubs changing Managers to take them forward that have found themselves regretting their decision.

[Texia]

You really think he's that special?

Honestly it might sound daft but I think he could be, just a gut feeling nothing else.

[hueyview]

says it all......robbie must go.............where the lad with the purse strings.........levine is sitting pretty......says it alll..............

[Watt-Zeefuik]

Okay so "our" Robbie is far from perfect but for a VERY young manager has achieved league success beyond that of many who are much more experienced and at a time our club was emerging from the embers of near extinction.

Be careful of what you wish for, there are so many examples of clubs changing Managers to take them forward that have found themselves regretting their decision.

 

[Seymour M Hersh]

Aye there's a fair comparison to be made between Neilson and Ferguson right enough.

 

Where am I making a like for like comparison? The knives were out for Ferguson in 89 and just think how much louder it would have been with social media.

 

I've a hard time believing you are really a Hearts fan. Your all over this thread but nowhere near any threads that are positive about the club. 

[Joe Hearts]

Beating Motherwell was no big deal, they were embarrassingly bad, as are most teams in the league.

I suppose if I only went to home games I may think the season has been average. Unfortunately I have only missed a couple and like anyone else who goes to most of the away games world tell you, it's been awful.

Time for a change.

Neilson must go....

I've come to this thread late and I'm a wee bit slow at taking things in but am I right in thinking you don't like Robbie?

[Rudolf's Mate]

The 'other poster' was me, and I didn't say anything about not making progress under him. I said we probably won't win a trophy under him, and we probably won't. If we replaced him, we probably wouldn't win a trophy under his replacement either, regardless of who that replacement might be. That's not a comment on RN's capabilities, or any replacement's capabilities, just an objective view based on how many trophies we've won in the last half century and the fact that at least one competitor club, and probably two, will have vastly greater financial resources than us in the next couple of years (and that's about as long as RN is likely to be here, one way or another).

 

You're right that the board should replace him if they don't think we'll make progress under him, but I hadn't said anything about that, and you didn't mention it either, so in context, your post was nonsense! Regarding what you actually meant, I expect the board probably do have confidence that we'll make progress under him, and therefore don't expect them to git rid of him.

 

Hands up I took your comment slightly out of context and admit that it's possible for him to make progress without winning anything. Regardless your comment about a replacement possibly not winning something. OK it's if's and but's however someone more tactically astute would possibly have us in a cup final and I do believe if we found the right replacement that we'd have a better chance. 

 

Despite my comments I've already said RN should have another season plus I think it would be a risk replacing him. Before a ball was kicked I was in the top 6 I'd be happy camp. Others were the same however I also believe that goals and expectations should change as the season progresses. I'd have bitten your hand off for top 3 at the start however I do now believe we could have been much closer to Aberdeen. 

 

People are allowed to share their views and opinions & if it's complete shit then they'll rightly be called out by the majority. This season I've gone from having 100% belief in RN to now thinking what I've seen and heard that he doesn't have the ability to take us forward. That's my view however I've not rammed it down anyone's throat but I'm entitled to share it if I wish. I also don't think it's complete shit either but I would love nothing more than to be proved wrong.

[The Don]

Celtic have better players than us. The main reason they took control after we'd been ahead in Glasgow was because their players upped their game, and started playing better than ours, because they're better players. The main reason they took control after we'd equalised at Tynecastle was because their players are better than ours and upped their game, although boyh of their second half goals were down to calamitous errors by our defenders.

 

Neilson isn't faultless but our results against celtic this season are much more down to factors outwith his control than they are to any deficiencies he has.

 

This logic says Leicester shouldn't have been anywhere near the top 5 in the EPL never mind having just being crowned champions.

[The Internet]

This logic says Leicester shouldn't have been anywhere near the top 5 in the EPL never mind having just being crowned champions.

 

 

 

This is definitely going to be the stock comeback for next season whenever we don't win a football match or someone points out that Celtic have a better team. 'BUT LEICESTER'

[The Don]

 

This is definitely going to be the stock comeback for next season whenever we don't win a football match or someone points out that Celtic have a better team. 'BUT LEICESTER'

It does kind of make the excuse of "oh they have better players" redundant. Football is not always about money, it's a team sport and like any other sport usually whoever wants it more wins. As a team whoever plays as a team wins. Give me a team of hungry for success players that play together for each other and give 100% everytime over a team of self interested money grabbing pre madonnas everyday.

[Paolo]

 

This is definitely going to be the stock comeback for next season whenever we don't win a football match or someone points out that Celtic have a better team. 'BUT LEICESTER'

Not at all. If we lose to a better side, but have played well and tried to win, most people will accept that.

 

If, however, we play not to lose, then do exactly that, and then simply shrug our shoulders and say 'you can't expect us to beat Celtic', then it is a fair point to make.