Title challenge

[Darren]

Ann Budge is up for it: http://stv.tv/sport/football/1348788-ann-budge-hearts-will-invest-for-premiership-title-tilt-next-term/

 

If we recruit well this summer then I think we have a decent chance.

[Harvey Specter]

Good to hear. 

 

We're not that far off it, if we manage to keep a hold of our key players and add two or three quality players in areas that require strengthening i.e. left back and striker (or two) IMO we'll be well in the mix. We've been let down a few times this season by player discipline, too many red cards have meant we've dropped points when we probably shouldn't have. Granted, a number of the red cards have been due to poor refereeing but this is something we need to address going forward as well as suspensions and subsequent squad rotation hasn't helped us this season.

 

We've done remarkably well to be in the position we are considering it's our first season back in the Premiership and I expect us to push on and be even closer next season. It could be an exciting Premiership next season with Celtic, Aberdeen, Hearts and Rangers challenging at the top end.

[i8hibsh]

Get 2 Natural goalscorers and we may just have a chance.

[IveSeenTheLight]

Of course Ann Budge is saying the right things and nothing is impossible (look at Leicester), but realistically........

 

The key thing I pick out of that article is

 

The key is making sure that the percentage of spend on the playing squad is appropriate to what we can bring in.

"We've got lots of exciting things going on at Tynecastle at the minute and lots of things to spend our money on but I can assure you that they  [Neilson and Levein] will have what they need to continue to strengthen the team for next season."

 

So essentially, Hearts will still be operating on a budget at a fraction of Celtics and probably SevCo, however the challenge will be to strengthen to get more points than you do this year.

 

We can all reflect how poor Celtic are and how much further ahead they should be, but the reality is that as much points Hearts and Aberdeen have stupidly lost this season, we are still behind this very poor Celtic.

 

In points wise, Hearts are currently only achieved 77% of Celtics having played the same number of games.

You's need to increase the points ratio from 1.8 per game to 2.32, just to match Celtic points tally.

6 of your 7 losses, would need to be converted to 5 wins and a draw.

 

Every game is winnable, what we all strive for is improvement, whilst understanding to be solvent, we realistically need to develop and sell.

Ideally, if we get the right blend at any given time, we have a strong unit and have a successful year.

 

I'm sure we all don't want a one horse race, so the longer we can all keep the title challenge going as long as possible and potentially any of us could do a Leicester and grind out the wins to top the table.

 

I'd like to think that as a minimum, we ensure that SevCo does not waltz back up above us in the challenging stakes, despite the GFA desires

[jambali]

Of course Ann Budge is saying the right things and nothing is impossible (look at Leicester), but realistically........

 

The key thing I pick out of that article is

 

 

So essentially, Hearts will still be operating on a budget at a fraction of Celtics and probably SevCo, however the challenge will be to strengthen to get more points than you do this year.

 

We can all reflect how poor Celtic are and how much further ahead they should be, but the reality is that as much points Hearts and Aberdeen have stupidly lost this season, we are still behind this very poor Celtic.

 

In points wise, Hearts are currently only achieved 77% of Celtics having played the same number of games.

You's need to increase the points ratio from 1.8 per game to 2.32, just to match Celtic points tally.

6 of your 7 losses, would need to be converted to 5 wins and a draw.

 

Every game is winnable, what we all strive for is improvement, whilst understanding to be solvent, we realistically need to develop and sell.

Ideally, if we get the right blend at any given time, we have a strong unit and have a successful year.

 

I'm sure we all don't want a one horse race, so the longer we can all keep the title challenge going as long as possible and potentially any of us could do a Leicester and grind out the wins to top the table.

 

I'd like to think that as a minimum, we ensure that SevCo does not waltz back up above us in the challenging stakes, despite the GFA desires

... and Septic will spend more to make sure they stay ahead of the New Club

[BRAVEHEART1874]

Depends if Paterson / walker leave but Yep 2 new strikers and it could be a great season next year but please no delusional thoughts about Accrington Stanley players and we will walk the league nonsense please

[The Future's Maroon]

Will be interesting to see if we do sell someone, or more, or good money if the management is able to use money to bring in players. I don't just mean freebies, I mean players with a fee.

 

I agree with others in saying we are not too far away, but still missing maybe four really good additions (maybe replacements) and we could have a good chance.

[Ray Gin]

Surprising to read given that we have a new stand to build. She must have something up her sleeve.

[Malcolm Tucker]

Will be interesting to see if we do sell someone, or more, or good money if the management is able to use money to bring in players. I don't just mean freebies, I mean players with a fee.

 

I agree with others in saying we are not too far away, but still missing maybe four really good additions (maybe replacements) and we could have a good chance.

 

I think with paying over ?120k for Souttar we've shown we're not afraid to pay a fee for the correct player. Plus we have the ?1.5m Sow money, additional to any further sales. I am extremely confident we'd open the wallet for the right signings.

[Fort Vallance]

I think with paying over ?120k for Souttar we've shown we're not afraid to pay a fee for the correct player. Plus we have the ?1.5m Sow money, additional to any further sales. I am extremely confident we'd open the wallet for the right signings.

I can only see us paying fee's for players with development / sell on potential. I'd be surprised if buying the finished article is in the business plan.

[The Future's Maroon]

I think with paying over ?120k for Souttar we've shown we're not afraid to pay a fee for the correct player. Plus we have the ?1.5m Sow money, additional to any further sales. I am extremely confident we'd open the wallet for the right signings.

 

Yes, and really ?120k in not a big lay out on a players of his age (and as now we have seen...ability).

 

I wasn't meaning we go out and splash out a ?1m+ on a player, I don't think that would ever happen....but maybe spending ?1m on two or three players?

[gnasher75]

Surprising to read given that we have a new stand to build. She must have something up her sleeve.

 

Filling the stadium with fans wanting to see a team challenging at the top of the league is probably the best way to pay for the new stand.

 

Signalling this intention is probably a shrewd move in advance of an announcement on season ticket prices for next season.  My guess is that there will be a modest rise across all price bands with the argument that if we all pay a bit more we can guarantee both a decent team on the park and excellent new facilities including the new stand.

 

How realistic it is to think we can actually win the league next year, I'm not sure.  Leaving aside how much more ?Celtic will spend to ensure staying well ahead of Rangers, we will also be disadvantaged if we end up playing all our final matches away from home to allow for the building work.  But you've got to admire the ambition.  ?And if we can sell out a 20,000+ stadium and keep developing the squad, maybe we can win the league in the next few years.

[Beast Boy]

And why not.

[Section Q]

She was right about qualifying for Europe.

[alicante jambo]

Souttar could turn.out to be one of our best buys in years.

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

As gallous as Saturday was it highlights that an ordinary Celtic still took us out playing well.

 

Reality of the situation Celtic step up when they really want to and we have a mountain to climb with them. All other sides I would expect to conquer. 2nd is definitely on at the current rate of progress

[socrates82]

As gallous as Saturday was it highlights that an ordinary Celtic still took us out playing well.

 

Reality of the situation Celtic step up when they really want to and we have a mountain to climb with them. All other sides I would expect to conquer. 2nd is definitely on at the current rate of progress

 

I agree. We can go toe to toe with Celtic on the day sometimes but they're always going to have that extra quality and strength in depth you get from spending squillions on your squad. Match winners like Roberts and Griffiths don't come cheap. If we can build a squad that is better than every other team, including maybe Rangers next year, then we could get close and rely on Celtic having another season like this when they drop points a lot.

 

I think Celtic will spend a lot more this close season though with Rangers coming up.

[Mikey1874]

Good to read

 

No matter the challenges being determined and working hard are all you can do.

 

You can challenge.

[Bazzas right boot]

Yes, and really ?120k in not a big lay out on a players of his age (and as now we have seen...ability).

 

I wasn't meaning we go out and splash out a ?1m+ on a player, I don't think that would ever happen....but maybe spending ?1m on two or three players?

 

 

Yip

 

Hemming's, Allan/ Mginn and 1 other European chap.

 

Maybe even the Dundee or Hamilton keeper.

 

I can see us spending up to around ?300-?500k for the right player, particularly if we sell.

[Bazzas right boot]

As gallous as Saturday was it highlights that an ordinary Celtic still took us out playing well.

 

Reality of the situation Celtic step up when they really want to and we have a mountain to climb with them. All other sides I would expect to conquer. 2nd is definitely on at the current rate of progress

 

 

That's one reality, the other is we are a young and improving side, not saddled with debt and are improving year on year ( last 4 years), while Celtic spend less each year, cannot attract or keep star players and are getting worse year on year. Yes they will outspend us, but the amount of that compared to 10 years ago ( excluding the Vlad mega 2 years) has closed, they cannot afford ?30/40 k players anymore.

 

Griffith's is good, but he Is not as good as players like Sutton, Di Canio, Pierre, Cadette, Larson.

 

Maybe a player like Hemmings or McKay would outscore Griffiths in a Celtic team, or our team.

 

The gap is shrinking and will shrink further as there is on CL money and the hook of playing in the CL is fading as Scottish teams will struggle to qualify.

 

That's my reality, and I am sticking to it, anyway I'm away to fly my magic carpet and purchase some magic ( more) beans now.

[Jambothump]

Of course Ann Budge is saying the right things and nothing is impossible (look at Leicester), but realistically........

 

The key thing I pick out of that article is

 

 

So essentially, Hearts will still be operating on a budget at a fraction of Celtics and probably SevCo, however the challenge will be to strengthen to get more points than you do this year.

 

We can all reflect how poor Celtic are and how much further ahead they should be, but the reality is that as much points Hearts and Aberdeen have stupidly lost this season, we are still behind this very poor Celtic.

 

In points wise, Hearts are currently only achieved 77% of Celtics having played the same number of games.

You's need to increase the points ratio from 1.8 per game to 2.32, just to match Celtic points tally.

6 of your 7 losses, would need to be converted to 5 wins and a draw.

 

Every game is winnable, what we all strive for is improvement, whilst understanding to be solvent, we realistically need to develop and sell.

Ideally, if we get the right blend at any given time, we have a strong unit and have a successful year.

 

I'm sure we all don't want a one horse race, so the longer we can all keep the title challenge going as long as possible and potentially any of us could do a Leicester and grind out the wins to top the table.

 

I'd like to think that as a minimum, we ensure that SevCo does not waltz back up above us in the challenging stakes, despite the GFA desires

Aye shit, it's called competition !

[J.T.F.Robertson]

Surprising to read given that we have a new stand to build. She must have something up her sleeve.

Ann is no mug. I'd like to think she has something in the works.

[Stephen Muddie]

A debt free HMFC who do business the proper way is like nothing we have ever seen before. We could have speculated to accumulate the pre-season past, we focussed on consolidation and preparing for the worst case I suppose. As it turned out, we were a few really disappointing results away from a genuine title challenge and, barring a major collapse, will have European football and increased matchday revenue to look forward to.

I dunno about the rest of you, but I am very optimistic about the future right now.

 

[Spencer]

This could involve paying c. ?250K for Scott Allan.

[Beast Boy]

A debt free HMFC who do business the proper way is like nothing we have ever seen before. We could have speculated to accumulate the pre-season past, we focussed on consolidation and preparing for the worst case I suppose. As it turned out, we were a few really disappointing results away from a genuine title challenge and, barring a major collapse, will have European football and increased matchday revenue to look forward to.

 

I dunno about the rest of you, but I am very optimistic about the future right now.

 

 

100% where I'm at.

[socrates82]

Yip

 

Hemming's, Allan/ Mginn and 1 other European chap.

 

Maybe even the Dundee or Hamilton keeper.

 

I can see us spending up to around ?300-?500k for the right player, particularly if we sell.

 

I'd be amazed if we spent that much. I think we've only spent 500k or more on a player 3 times outwith the Romanov years in our history - D Ferguson, Petric (shudder) and Robbo, and Robbo was effectively just giving Newcastle some of we what got for him back.

 

We've forked out 250-300k+ a few times for Cameron, McCann, McKenna, McKinlay and co but that was when it was pretty common for non-OF teams to splash cash around, eg De La Cruz to Hibs for 700k and Bernard to Aberdeen for 1m, and these days those players would go straight to the OF or down south for higher wages. We also used to sell our players for decent transfer fees much more often than now so we could reinvest by paying out fees.

 

As long as we can find the likes of Djoum, Kitchen and Sow for nothing I'd be surprised if we'd fork out a fee over 200k unless it's a development type fee for someone like Souttar.

[Beast Boy]

I'd be amazed if we spent that much. I think we've only spent 500k or more on a player 3 times outwith the Romanov years in our history - D Ferguson, Petric (shudder) and Robbo, and Robbo was effectively just giving Newcastle some of we what got for him back.

 

We've forked out 250-300k+ a few times for Cameron, McCann, McKenna, McKinlay and co but that was when it was pretty common for non-OF teams to splash cash around, eg De La Cruz to Hibs for 700k and Bernard to Aberdeen for 1m, and these days those players would go straight to the OF or down south for higher wages.

 

As long as we can find the likes of Djoum, Kitchen and Sow for nothing I'd be surprised if we'd fork out a fee over 200k unless it's a development type fee for someone like Souttar.

Wasn't Niemi 500k?

[Bazzas right boot]

I'd be amazed if we spent that much. I think we've only spent 500k or more on a player 3 times outwith the Romanov years in our history - D Ferguson, Petric (shudder) and Robbo, and Robbo was effectively just giving Newcastle some of we what got for him back.

 

We've forked out 250-300k+ a few times for Cameron, McCann, McKenna, McKinlay and co but that was when it was pretty common for non-OF teams to splash cash around, eg De La Cruz to Hibs for 700k and Bernard to Aberdeen for 1m, and these days those players would go straight to the OF or down south for higher wages.

 

As long as we can find the likes of Djoum, Kitchen and Sow for nothing I'd be surprised if we'd fork out a fee over 200k unless it's a development type fee for someone like Souttar.

Maybe, but as above poster, this is the first time we are debt free and are financially secure in my lifetime,

Game changer, dunno what the difference will be long term, but it will be interesting.

[socrates82]

Wasn't Niemi 500k?

 

Good shout - I knew there were others. We might have paid even more than that for him though? Had a quick look but couldn't find the fee. We made well over double in profit though.

[Beast Boy]

Good shout - I knew there were others. We might have paid even more than that for him though? Had a quick look but couldn't find the fee. We made well over double in profit though.

Just had a look myself. Apparently it was actually only ?200k.

 

http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/antti-niemi/transfers/spieler/3101

 

Surprised by that. Dunno how reliable this source is though.

[mr fox]

Great news and to be honest we ain't a million miles away to challenge all it needs is a decent striker eg a fuller similar player and maybe another djoum similar player along with no more tinkering

 

We need a side that plays the same system week in week out

 

Hated the 352 but it worked at weekend hearts should not have lost that game

[JyTees]

Leicester, and to a lesser extent, West Ham and Spurs have shown it's not just about spending power. Some shrewd signings, and everyone from the dof, the head coach and all the way down to the scouts at grass roots, working to a high standard and a certain philosophy, and great things can be achieved.

 

Personally, I don't think the gap Leicester have overturned this season is anything like ours to Celtic. Ours is a walk in the park in comparison.

 

Might not be next season...but it's coming.

[Stephen Muddie]

Good shout - I knew there were others. We might have paid even more than that for him though? Had a quick look but couldn't find the fee. We made well over double in profit though.

400k IIRC

[Bridge of Djoum]

Loving this thread! Every post a positive. 

 

Now, where is CNS?

[Uncle Buck]

We're a few signings off challenging. I reckon a goalie, left back, centre mid, winger and two strikers.

[Stephen Muddie]

We're a few signings off challenging. I reckon a goalie, left back, centre mid, winger and two strikers.

Agree mostly. With a bit of luck/good consistent performances from NA or an improving JH and our exisitng CMs, I'd say that possibly we could be at Aberdeen's level with two strikers and a left back. Not totally given up on Oshaniwa, but he's going to have to show what he's got between now and end of season. Agree with another winger.

[michael_bolton]

Leicester, and to a lesser extent, West Ham and Spurs have shown it's not just about spending power. Some shrewd signings, and everyone from the dof, the head coach and all the way down to the scouts at grass roots, working to a high standard and a certain philosophy, and great things can be achieved.

 

Personally, I don't think the gap Leicester have overturned this season is anything like ours to Celtic. Ours is a walk in the park in comparison.

 

Might not be next season...but it's coming.

 

I'd disagree with this. The higher up the spending ladder you get, the smaller the difference is. Players can only be so good, so when everyone can afford good players, the advantage of the good teams becomes less.

 

There is no way in the world an equivalent - say Killie challenging next season - could ever happen here.

[Sydney]

I really hope we can challenge, but I think we're 3-4 top quality players off it just now.

[Unknown user]

It's been quite a turnaround for us as a group of fans to be able to openly talk about this.

 

It's not that long ago that you'd be shouted down for even suggesting the possibility of winning the league, but now we can proudly say that's our aim, that's our prize.

We might not win it this year, but we'll stand up again, dust ourselves off, rebuild, and go for the ****** next year!

 

We'll have that league flag in my lifetime, I'm sure of it

[Billy Walsh]

Looks like we have some big players lined up for the summer. here's hoping!

[JamboJen]

A debt free HMFC who do business the proper way is like nothing we have ever seen before. We could have speculated to accumulate the pre-season past, we focussed on consolidation and preparing for the worst case I suppose. As it turned out, we were a few really disappointing results away from a genuine title challenge and, barring a major collapse, will have European football and increased matchday revenue to look forward to.

 

I dunno about the rest of you, but I am very optimistic about the future right now.

 

 

Well said. Much like Robbie's win ratio, I'd say the success ratio of RN/CL's signings is amongst the best of any manager I can remember (outside Burley) and I have absolute faith in them - and Ann - to deliver again this summer.

[Bazzas right boot]

I'd disagree with this. The higher up the spending ladder you get, the smaller the difference is. Players can only be so good, so when everyone can afford good players, the advantage of the good teams becomes less.

 

There is no way in the world an equivalent - say Killie challenging next season - could ever happen here.

 

I agree, the difference between a ?20m player and  ?35 M player isn't the same as a ?500k player and a ?2m player, the former will have a small difference, the latter quite a big difference.

 

The quality of the league has to be high, teams taking points of each other.

 

Stoke, Leicester, Southampton, West ham all have players on wages ?60/80k +, and international players.

Basically the EPL will be full of good teams.

 

 

However, the difference between a ?3/4k a week player and say a ?10k a week player also isn't that big, Celtic aren't paying ?30k + anymore.

 

They will spend less as there is no CL money.

[Bazzas right boot]

Well said. Much like Robbie's win ratio, I'd say the success ratio of RN/CL's signings is amongst the best of any manager I can remember (outside Burley) and I have absolute faith in them - and Ann - to deliver again this summer.

 

I agree, but starting where we did, it was always going to be a good %.

 

Now that we have a decent team, players that will improve us, will be more difficult to find.

[Bazzas right boot]

Leicester, and to a lesser extent, West Ham and Spurs have shown it's not just about spending power. Some shrewd signings, and everyone from the dof, the head coach and all the way down to the scouts at grass roots, working to a high standard and a certain philosophy, and great things can be achieved.

 

Personally, I don't think the gap Leicester have overturned this season is anything like ours to Celtic. Ours is a walk in the park in comparison.

 

Might not be next season...but it's coming.

 

Vardy just signed a ?80k/ week deal

 

Every EPL club can attract and keep good players, as you go high up, a type of economies of scale kick in, the difference in quality is less and less.

 

The difference between a ?120k a week player and a ?80k/ week player won't be that much.

 

a ?1k a week player v a ?10/12k a week player will be huge, we will probably be around the ?2-4k  mark for our top players and Celtic are downsizing, but will still pay ?10k give or take, it's quite a jump in the quality you can attract and more importantly keep.

 

Fortunately, we are in a good financial place and should be able to outspend most others and create distance from them and in turn bring us closer to the top.

 

No CL money for Celtic is good for us, it will mean they continue to downsize and generally attract less quality.

[Beast Boy]

I agree, the difference between a ?20m player and ?35 M player isn't the same as a ?500k player and a ?2m player, the former will have a small difference, the latter quite a big difference.

 

The quality of the league has to be high, teams taking points of each other.

 

Stoke, Leicester, Southampton, West ham all have players on wages ?60/80k +, and international players.

Basically the EPL will be full of good teams.

 

 

However, the difference between a ?3/4k a week player and say a ?10k a week player also isn't that big, Celtic aren't paying ?30k + anymore.

 

They will spend less as there is no CL money.

I agree about the difference in ability between Leicester and Man City players. My friend and I were talking about this very thing before the St Johnstone game.

[AWM]

Just had a look myself. Apparently it was actually only ?200k.

 

http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/antti-niemi/transfers/spieler/3101

 

Surprised by that. Dunno how reliable this source is though.

 

It was always mentioned as being around ?400k in the media but I remember Graham Spiers saying on Scotsport that Jim Jeffries had told him it was only ?260k.

[Macros]

I would love to see us put in a challenge next season and hope that at the least we and Aberdeen can keep any newly promoted sides below us in the league. I can see Celtic spending a bit more than in the recent past to placate their fans due to the arrival of Rangers into the Premiership. 'We have a 5 year plan' has been the message from the board and team management from day one, only 2 years into that and we look likely to be in the Europa League qualifiers already. My hopes/expectations for next season are that we remain a top 3 side, become more consistent by stopping giving away daft points against the likes of Kilmarnock and Hamilton and have a decent run in the cup competitions. We already have a core of a squad that is capable of this, keeping the cream of the young players, Walker, Patterson, Souttar, Nicholson, Smith and King and adding a few decent signings and we will be right up at the top. I'd also love if we could get a further extension on Djoum's contract.

[Beast Boy]

It was always mentioned as being around ?400k in the media but I remember Graham Spiers saying on Scotsport that Jim Jeffries had told him it was only ?260k.

Ah right. Cheers.

[Jammy T]

As an aside nobody should be worried about Rangers being back in the league. Nobody should think this season was our only chance.

 

I think we have been conditioned as non erse cheek fans to think that title challenges only come once in a generation.

 

No wonder! 85/86, 98', 06/07 about a decade apart each one... Means we are due one

 

However, hearts are trying something different now. A sustainable model rather than a one off. Why not? The one offs didn't work.

 

I said at the start of this season we really needed 4 teams in the hunt to win the league to have a real chance of challenging. I had presumed United would be up there.

 

Whether we like it or not we need other teams to be in with a chance to win a league to peg back Celtic and rangers.

 

So Rangers being back next year is a good thing - if we have a good transfer window.

 

If we improve, and Aberdeen stay up there Celtic will be distracted by Rangers. And I don't presume Rangers will be a top two or top 3 team.

 

Their points to date this year is less than we were at the same point in a weaker league for example.

 

It is really interesting but next season we will learn a lot about the model that the club are trying to put in place.

[Brandt]

This could involve paying c. ?250K for Scott Allan.

You've been beating this drum for ages now. Hope its true.