Christianity

[aussieh]

So in fairness you have other links, or is it only Christian Hypocrisy that bothers you.

Hypocrite.

[Riddley Walker]

If anyone has any links to Youtube about this that would be great.

 

Struggling to wrap my head around it all.

[OBE]

I'd bet more people throughout human history have died in the name god / allah / deity than anthing else ... other than natural causes

Yes, only surpassed by Malaria/Mosquito... wee *******'s.

[Nookie Bear]

The title of the thread is Christianity, and the following is an aspect of that religion that should be remembered:

 

In 1600, Italian philosopher Giordano Bruno was burned alive as a heretic.  He was one of the 16^th century?s most brilliant men.  He was convicted of ?holding erroneous opinions? about the Catholic faith, about the Trinity, about Christ, and about transubstantiation.  He was also convicted of denying the virginity of Mary, and of holding the belief that the Earth was not the centre of the Universe. 

Galileo almost suffered the same fate when he made similar claims about the Earth, but he recanted and was spared a horrific death, getting house-arrest for life instead. All Galileo?s writings were burned by the Church after his death.

 

Some other examples where entire libraries and scientific works were put to the torch by religious fanatics: 

 

The Library of Alexandria was burned by Christian zealots around 640AD.

In 448AD, Theodosius II ordered all non-Christian books everywhere to be burned. 

In 1492, all Jewish and Arabic books in Spain, some 24,000 volumes, were ordered burned by Spanish Inquisitor Torquemada.   

In 1486 the same Torquemada burned alive a mathematician who Torquemada said was seeking knowledge that was accessible only to God. 

In 1109, the Crusaders captured Tripoli, and over 100,000 books of Muslim learning were burned. 

Michael Servetus, a scientist, was burned as a heretic in Geneva in 1553, along with all his books on subjects such as medicine, mathematics, astronomy, and anatomy. 

In 1562, all the books of the Mayans, including many on astronomy and mathematics, were burned on the order of the Bishop of Yucatan.

 

But believing in a talking snake is OK, apparently. We can only speculate about where we would be as a species if all that knowledge and potential hadn't been destroyed. 

 

That's quite a crime sheet but you are imposing our morals on the people of 600/1000 years ago. It's fair to say that things have moved on since then, no?

 

There are people on this planet today who continue to pursue this kind of cultural and social purge...and, unless I am mistaken, they are not usually christian.

[aussieh]

I'd bet more people throughout human history have died in the name god / allah / deity than anthing else ... other than natural causes

Greed more like.

[Swarlos]

That's quite a crime sheet but you are imposing our morals on the people of 600/1000 years ago. It's fair to say that things have moved on since then, no?

 

There are people on this planet today who continue to pursue this kind of cultural and social purge...and, unless I am mistaken, they are not usually christian.

He's not judging the people who carried out the acts.

He's demonstrating the fact that without religion we'd likely be much more advanced.

[aussieh]

He's not judging the people who carried out the acts.

He's demonstrating the fact that without religion we'd likely be much more advanced.

You sure, without the bible in Scotland, well im sure someone wanted us all to read it, so now we all can if we want to.

[Swarlos]

You sure, without the bible in Scotland, well im sure someone wanted us all to read it, so now we all can if we want to.

I don't know what that means.

[Ron Burgundy]

Whatever gets folk through the night is fine by me as my life isn't really affected by zealots trying to convert me or my family. As for believing in a creator/god I've got an open mind.

 

I reckon humans are the problem not religion. As a species we are simply abhorrent. Do devout atheists believe that human life is worth more than any other species and if so seeing as they believe we are no more than a  collection of atoms why ?

 

Could be a good/interesting thread if the usual suspects steer clear and allow a decent debate.

[Nookie Bear]

He's not judging the people who carried out the acts.

He's demonstrating the fact that without religion we'd likely be much more advanced.

 

He's not judging the people who carried out the acts.

He's demonstrating the fact that without religion we'd likely be much more advanced.

 

But we don;t know how much the advance was delayed though. Yes, it is dreadful that these books were destroyed but learning still happened and we continued to advance. It just shows how futile these acts are because people will always want to learn.

[Nookie Bear]

I'd bet more people throughout human history have died in the name god / allah / deity than anthing else ... other than natural causes

 

How about in the last 100 years?

 

Almost 100 million lost in two world wars and countless other conflicts fought on ideological grounds, not religious.  Two wrongs don;t make a right but,as someone has aid, religion is not the problem, it's the people.

[Spitonastranger]

Many many things, most quite stupid. Specifically about God though? Here's a selection to be getting on with:

 

http://www.pierretristam.com/Bobst/07/wf081507.htm

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-_HemCiFHs

[IronJambo]

Wait - you think me saying "don't hate nothing at all, except hatred" suggests i don't hate anything. A thing that says you should hate hatred, and you think that suggests not hating anything. I know it's against the rules to have a go at someone for not being clever, so i'll pick my words carefully....

 

 

...actually, there's nothing i can say within the rules that allows me to express my feelings on that. Suffice to say you've given me a right good laugh.

 

I don't doubt that the lyrics to 'it's alright ma' don't make sense to you. It fits together perfectly actually.

Very very simply, when questioned on a different variation of the above quote (which has now become a double negative) your response was to simply say it was a lyric. In the context of your response it suggested to me that you didn't share the concept of the quote. I was simply asking what YOU thought, not what a song thinks.

 

The horses are tall round your way aren't they.

[Boris]

Whatever gets folk through the night is fine by me as my life isn't really affected by zealots trying to convert me or my family. As for believing in a creator/god I've got an open mind.

 

I reckon humans are the problem not religion. As a species we are simply abhorrent. Do devout atheists believe that human life is worth more than any other species and if so seeing as they believe we are no more than a  collection of atoms why ?

 

Could be a good/interesting thread if the usual suspects steer clear and allow a decent debate.

 

Humans are a product of their environment and ours has been moulded by organised religion, in the form of Christianity, then superseded by the rise of mercantilism and ultimately capitalism.  Religion being a handy facilitator to the ruling elite to win over the masses.  Once we get over that hump, the good times will roll.

 

I 100% agree that individuals have the right to believe what they want and that religion (or an ideology) can be a comfort.  The gospel of peace and love is a good one, as is the "golden rule" of doing unto others as you'd have done to yourself.  Whether this needs a god to make it so is debatable.

[2NaFish]

Very very simply, when questioned on a different variation of the above quote (which has now become a double negative) your response was to simply say it was a lyric. In the context of your response it suggested to me that you didn't share the concept of the quote. I was simply asking what YOU thought, not what a song thinks.

 

The horses are tall round your way aren't they.

 

Why would that suggest that to you? You're just inventing stuff to start a bunfight.

 

For someone who wants things to be "very very simple" you're working yourself into knots over things you're making up in your head. Here's the deal, if i don't say it, or it's not a logical outcome of what i say, then i didn't say it. You can infer whatever you like, but it's just so much arse gravy.

[IronJambo]

Why would that suggest that to you? You're just inventing stuff to start a bunfight.

 

For someone who wants things to be "very very simple" you're working yourself into knots over things you're making up in your head. Here's the deal, if i don't say it, or it's not a logical outcome of what i say, then i didn't say it. You can infer whatever you like, but it's just so much arse gravy.

Fair play, I must've misread your response of "it's a lyric". I can see clearly now that you had offered your very own opinion and I apologise profusely for questioning it.

[2NaFish]

I also didn't say it was my opinion; you're reading into things that aren't necessarily there. You've got a very binary view of the world. Take it easy; not everything is 'very very simple'.

[IronJambo]

I also didn't say it was my opinion; you're reading into things that aren't necessarily there. You've got a very binary view of the world. Take it easy; not everything is 'very very simple'.

I rest my case.

[redm]

I have conflicted views on religion, Christianity included.

 

I have some great friends who are committed Christians and they're certainly not daft folk - some are hugely scientifically minded folk (which baffles me) - yet, they're completely entrenched in their faith. They simply make exceptions for the interpretations of the bible that they aren't keen on or don't support. I think that's pretty standard across the board, you have what I would consider progressive Christians who are cool with gender equality, freedom of sexual identity/sexuality etc, then you have others who simply aren't down with that stuff at all and viciously condemn it. This is probably the reason I can't help but see the bible (and the varying interpretations of it) as a convenient vehicle for prejudices. A pick'n'mix of religious justifications for pretty crappy and intolerant behaviours, basically. Like everything else, people are entitled to their own views but I can't stand this "cos the bible says so" stuff. All their talk of love and compassion and charity, it's just utter hypocrisy.

 

I suppose some people just need that structure, that clear moral and ethical code, instructions for how to live your life. It's a comfort when things are difficult and the realities of life kick in. I understand that, I really do. But many others who don't have faith manage to live their lives as good people and form their own moral and ethical code without devoting themselves to some sort of organisation or mystical 'higher power'. Some people don't need a god to tell them why love and compassion and empathy are important.

 

I can't stand listening to ministers and the like when they tell a couple of people who are about to be married that they should be grateful to god - eh, hang on. No. Two people met, they considered their behaviour carefully, they were good to one another, they listened and learned about each other and found common ground, fell in love, decided to spend their lives together. They worked at that, one human to another. It was all their own work, why give the credit to someone else for achievements? Thanking god for having achieved a first class honours degree? No. You studied your bum off for that. You took a job to support yourself through uni, you balanced study and work, you found the necessary strength and discipline within yourself to achieve that. YOU did that. You are master of your own destiny. That's how I see it anyway. I have no doubt many others would disagree and I respect that, I just find it infuriating that faith and godly interventions are credited with so much, like people couldn't be strong without it. "He gave me strength" - oh did he? Huh.

[redm]

My own personal view is this: religion is about control. It's also a means of trying to make it more palatable to sentient beings that actually, we are born, we live, we might make new humans or we might not, then we die and we become part of the earth again. There is no hidden meaning of life that will make our existence any more meaningful or important, we just come and spend some time here then we go again. Some people can't stomach this idea, I get that. I don't understand the concept of death or nothingness thereafter either, but I think I'm comfortable with it.

 

Plus, religions are completely and utterly obsessed with sex. Who has sex, when they have sex, how they have sex, who they have sex with, why they have sex. Oh sod off, it's just so weird and creepy. Control, control, control.

[Sheriff Fatman]

That's quite a crime sheet but you are imposing our morals on the people of 600/1000 years ago. It's fair to say that things have moved on since then, no?

 

There are people on this planet today who continue to pursue this kind of cultural and social purge...and, unless I am mistaken, they are not usually christian.

 

Science and rational thought has moved things on, if the Christian authorities had had it's way we would be in exactly the same place as we were. There are still Christian religious groups that burn books and try to repress scientific knowledge, just look at the Young Earth movement in the USA for some spectacular examples.

[aussieh]

My own personal view is this: religion is about control. It's also a means of trying to make it more palatable to sentient beings that actually, we are born, we live, we might make new humans or we might not, then we die and we become part of the earth again. There is no hidden meaning of life that will make our existence any more meaningful or important, we just come and spend some time here then we go again. Some people can't stomach this idea, I get that. I don't understand the concept of death or nothingness thereafter either, but I think I'm comfortable with it.

 

Plus, religions are completely and utterly obsessed with sex. Who has sex, when they have sex, how they have sex, who they have sex with, why they have sex. Oh sod off, it's just so weird and creepy. Control, control, control.

But your personal view is fact.Are you sure it does bother you.

[michael_bolton]

The idea that religion causes more wars and deaths than anything else is an incredible over-simplification of history.

 

Pick any conflict you want and there is always more than one reason for it. Religion is usually a vehicle, not a cause.

[redm]

But your personal view is fact.Are you sure it does bother you.

 

I'm sorry, I'm not sure what you mean? Does it bother me? If you mean religion then yes, I think it does bother me sometimes, but not as much as my rant above would suggest. It only bothers me when I think about it a lot, which isn't often.... 

 

Or if you mean death, then yes that bothers me too - I hate thinking about death, it's just too much for my wee brain - but at the same time I don't feel like religion and faith are fair to people in that respect. I don't want false hope of some other afterlife or whatever, I just want to come to terms with my existence in real terms.

[aussieh]

Should be ridiculed and hated just as much as other religious fantasies in a free civilisation.

 

Is it, in your experience Kickbackers?

 

I've had a look, I don't seem to see any other religion being ridiculed, or condemned by your good self, only Christianity.

[2NaFish]

I've had a look, I don't seem to see any other religion being ridiculed, or condemned by your good self, only Christianity.

 

It's a thread on christianity, silly.

 

There's not much sign of hating hibs on the rangers thread. Does that mean all those folk really like hibs?

[aussieh]

It's a thread on christianity, silly.

 

There's not much sign of hating hibs on the rangers thread. Does that mean all those folk really like hibs?

I wouldn't know about the Rangers thread, its against my religion.

If I accidentally open it, I have to shower immediately.

[redm]

The idea that religion causes more wars and deaths than anything else is an incredible over-simplification of history.

 

Pick any conflict you want and there is always more than one reason for it. Religion is usually a vehicle, not a cause.

 

Yeah, they're about power. But for me power and religion are often completely inextricably entwined throughout history anyway.

[redm]

I've had a look, I don't seem to see any other religion being ridiculed, or condemned by your good self, only Christianity.

 

If it helps, I'm equally baffled by all of them.

[Generic Username]

Religion becomes fair game for me when others who practise/believe a certain faith try to ram their beliefs down your neck and find it mind boggling that you couldn't believe what they do.

 

Want to believe in Allah? Bash on.

Jesus? Lovely.

Xenu? Super.

Flying spaghetti monster? Why not.

[Guest Bilel Mohsni]

I've had a look, I don't seem to see any other religion being ridiculed, or condemned by your good self, only Christianity.

I think they're all just as ridiculous, if that helps. Are you worried that I am anti Christian and pro some other religion?

 

You are quite difficult to debate with sometimes.

[aussieh]

I think they're all just as ridiculous, if that helps. Are you worried that I am anti Christian and pro some other religion?

You are quite difficult to debate with sometimes.

No, I'm not. Why did you start the thread again?.

[Guest Bilel Mohsni]

No, I'm not. Why did you start the thread again?.

I was thinking about religion as my bus was stuck outside a church. On that bus were two 'gents' discussing how objectionable Islam is based on some newspaper article that I haven't read in the Metro. It got me thinking about whether or not we as a society can be a wee bit blinkered when apportioning judgement and blame on things. So I decided to spraff about it in the Shed as I had my phone handy and enjoy debate about these sort of things.

 

Quite cool going back over the path I took to start this thread. It's the first thought provoking question you've asked me.

[Generic Username]

Obvious Christian is obvious.

[aussieh]

I was thinking about religion as my bus was stuck outside a church. On that bus were two 'gents' discussing how objectionable Islam is based on some newspaper article that I haven't read in the Metro. It got me thinking about whether or not we as a society can be a wee bit blinkered when apportioning judgement and blame on things. So I decided to spraff about it in the Shed as I had my phone handy and enjoy debate about these sort of things.

Quite cool going back over the path I took to start this thread. It's the first thought provoking question you've asked me.

Nothing to do with the other thread? No.

[XB52]

The freedom to choose not to follow a religion, any religion, is the same freedom that allows others to hold different beliefs, and to choose to follow a religion.

 

With that freedom also comes a responsibility to be tolerant (freedom is not free, and tolerance is one of the costs) so while I personally do not believe in any religion, I respect others rights to hold their different personal beliefs.

saved me typing, 100% agree

[Guest Bilel Mohsni]

Nothing to do with the other thread? No.

The Tunisian one, where I point out that in my opinion the lives of all people who lose are killed in these conflicts are equal? If so, yes, that thread was very thought provoking and I've found myself mulling over certain facets of it since. There is a very good chance that was still on my mind too when I started this one.

[Jambo 4 Ever]

http://www.the-latest.com/blind-faith-miracle-healer-who-rolls-town

 

What about supposed faith healers like this one?

[Gizmo]

I have conflicted views on religion, Christianity included.

 

I have some great friends who are committed Christians and they're certainly not daft folk - some are hugely scientifically minded folk (which baffles me) - yet, they're completely entrenched in their faith. They simply make exceptions for the interpretations of the bible that they aren't keen on or don't support. I think that's pretty standard across the board, you have what I would consider progressive Christians who are cool with gender equality, freedom of sexual identity/sexuality etc, then you have others who simply aren't down with that stuff at all and viciously condemn it. This is probably the reason I can't help but see the bible (and the varying interpretations of it) as a convenient vehicle for prejudices. A pick'n'mix of religious justifications for pretty crappy and intolerant behaviours, basically. Like everything else, people are entitled to their own views but I can't stand this "cos the bible says so" stuff. All their talk of love and compassion and charity, it's just utter hypocrisy.

 

I suppose some people just need that structure, that clear moral and ethical code, instructions for how to live your life. It's a comfort when things are difficult and the realities of life kick in. I understand that, I really do. But many others who don't have faith manage to live their lives as good people and form their own moral and ethical code without devoting themselves to some sort of organisation or mystical 'higher power'. Some people don't need a god to tell them why love and compassion and empathy are important.

 

I can't stand listening to ministers and the like when they tell a couple of people who are about to be married that they should be grateful to god - eh, hang on. No. Two people met, they considered their behaviour carefully, they were good to one another, they listened and learned about each other and found common ground, fell in love, decided to spend their lives together. They worked at that, one human to another. It was all their own work, why give the credit to someone else for achievements? Thanking god for having achieved a first class honours degree? No. You studied your bum off for that. You took a job to support yourself through uni, you balanced study and work, you found the necessary strength and discipline within yourself to achieve that. YOU did that. You are master of your own destiny. That's how I see it anyway. I have no doubt many others would disagree and I respect that, I just find it infuriating that faith and godly interventions are credited with so much, like people couldn't be strong without it. "He gave me strength" - oh did he? Huh.

I hate that. Someone survives a horrendous traffic accident which took blood donations from 4 different people, 10 nurses, 2 surgeons, 3 operations, various pieces of advanced equipment and round the clock monitoring - then they come out and go "thank God for sparing me".

 

If your God did indeed spare you, why did you call 999? Indeed why did your God allow you to go through such a horrific experience? Nah, just write off all that expertise and effort from a huge team that saved you and helped put you back together.

 

Infact, why do theists go to the Doctors if they aren't feeling well - surely if they are believers then a) God will save them or It was God's will that you died from a scratch that became infected.

 

God's will - which tells us our lives are already planned and set in stone? Screw that. Science shows that we only have a small amount of actual "free will" and I am not giving it up to some fictitious deity.

 

[Gizmo]

One thing I will say - is I am, against my expectations, liking this new Pope. If he would move on contraception he'd be the best leader of the Catholic Church in history imo.

[Jambo 4 Ever]

One thing I will say - is I am, against my expectations, liking this new Pope. If he would move on contraception he'd be the best leader of the Catholic Church in history imo.

Is he the antichrist though?!

[Riddley Walker]

I'm starting to think Jambo in Hamilton is the best troll this board has ever seen.

[redm]

Religion becomes fair game for me when others who practise/believe a certain faith try to ram their beliefs down your neck and find it mind boggling that you couldn't believe what they do.

 

Want to believe in Allah? Bash on.

Jesus? Lovely.

Xenu? Super.

Flying spaghetti monster? Why not.

 

Same. I find it difficult when decisions are or aren't made because of religious intolerance or equality measures are hindered in some way by religious nonsense.

If you're not harming anyone else then as far as I'm concerned you can worship any old thing you like.  

[Debut 4]

There's always a trend on here when an atrocity happens linked to Islamic extremism that someone comes on to have a go at Christianity or the western world.

 

Full of fa@nies this country now, full of them.

[Sheriff Fatman]

There's always a trend on here when an atrocity happens linked to Islamic extremism that someone comes on to have a go at Christianity or the western world.

 

Full of fa@nies this country now, full of them.

 

Ah gotcha, we are not allowed to talk about the deficiencies of Christianity.

 

Got to love the censorship of good old 'Western Christian Values' and those who purport to follow them,

[redm]

There's always a trend on here when an atrocity happens linked to Islamic extremism that someone comes on to have a go at Christianity or the western world.

 

Full of fa@nies this country now, full of them.

Is there? I had honestly never noticed that. I think religiously motivated incidents often generate a lot of discussion on religion in general but not necessarily any particular focus on Christianity. Just so happens that most of us will know more about that religion than most others. Not all, mind.

[Jam Tarts 1874]

See all these people on here blabbing on about religion and control - what a load of shite.

 

Maybe these people should actually spend some time at Church and in the company of Christians - no one is trying to control anyone, it's just a myth put around by the ignorant and lazy-minded.

 

The Church has always sought to teach morality, but this is not the same as trying to control people.  Maybe if more people paid attention to morality the world wouldn't be in the mess that it is in now, especially here in Britain.

 

Christianity does not control you, it sets you free.

[Boris]

See all these people on here blabbing on about religion and control - what a load of shite.

 

Maybe these people should actually spend some time at Church and in the company of Christians - no one is trying to control anyone, it's just a myth put around by the ignorant and lazy-minded.

 

The Church has always sought to teach morality, but this is not the same as trying to control people.  Maybe if more people paid attention to morality the world wouldn't be in the mess that it is in now, especially here in Britain.

 

Christianity does not control you, it sets you free.

 

Which part of "Do as we say, or you will burn in hell" isn't about control?

 

Or, if you go back to the very beginnings of organised religion in this country, the power the Papacy had over Kings and, by extension, the people?

 

It was only until recently that blasphemy laws existed in this country and women were tried for witchraft during the second world war.

 

Whilst not saying all religious people want to control, it is safe to say that the church has tried to control.  Outside of Iran, our country is one of the only ones to allow theocrats a spot in the legislative process!  They can shape our law.  But it's not about control.

[Sheriff Fatman]

Christianity does not control you, it sets you free.

 

But only free to follow the teachings of a heavily edited and mistranslated book that has been highly influenced by people with personal ambitions and extremely 'un-Christian' personal lives.

[aussieh]

There's always a trend on here when an atrocity happens linked to Islamic extremism that someone comes on to have a go at Christianity or the western world.

 

Full of fa@nies this country now, full of them.

Spot on.

The reason for the thread.