D.Utd to sue McCurry

[crazy_jambo_2006]

Well done, Levein. An interview from the heart. The bloke looked like he was about to start crying.

 

But I can't blame the ref.

 

I blame the neds, who would pan the ref's windows in, trash his car, abuse his kids in the street - if he dared make decisions which cost Gers the Title. It's a fear culture.

 

Blame the neds, not the ref.

[Das Root]

Here in Scotland I seriously doubt that the problem is deliberate cheating, money changing hands or anything of that sort.

 

Rather the problem is one of unconsious bias, a kind of "when in doubt" mentality. This may not result in the OF winning / drawing any particular game but over a season it will undoubtedly make a big difference to the number of points they have. (IMO)

 

A secondary effect could be the number of yellow and red cards handed out to other sides as frustration creeps in when they see that justice is not being seen to be done on the park.

 

So my vote goes with foreign referees for all games involving the OF and if Dundee Utd's case against McCurry hastens that then so much the better.

 

One word of caution. If McCurry were to lose this case (which he won't) then the ball is well and truly up on the slates. No-one will want to referee any game in case the losing side takes the hump and he gets his house taken away !

 

 

Simplest thing would be pro referees, not the amateurs we use at present. It's a salaried job, meaning you get better folk than we have just now, they train and learn throughout the week and like any job if you screw up you get disciplined. Disciplined being demotion or fines depending on the severity of your mistake. Like the ref who got hit when missing that flying elbow from Thatcher down in England last year.

[davieholt]

Simplest thing would be pro referees, not the amateurs we use at present. It's a salaried job, meaning you get better folk than we have just now, they train and learn throughout the week and like any job if you screw up you get disciplined. Disciplined being demotion or fines depending on the severity of your mistake. Like the ref who got hit when missing that flying elbow from Thatcher down in England last year.

 

Neat solution but who would employ the refs? If it were to be the SFA or SPL we would be back to square one. Nothing changes !

[Das Root]

Neat solution but who would employ the refs? If it were to be the SFA or SPL we would be back to square one. Nothing changes !

 

 

Sure, but a professional body can be held far more accountable than a bunch of eejits in black only on w/e's. One thing I can see is the fear from the SFA that if they hold their refs accountable at present they risk them walking away, that wouldn't be so under a professional system.

[Guest JamboRobbo]

I'm caught in two minds re the Utd case.....................on one hand i think it is something they should take further (but just shouting the odds when it has really got bad does not help their case imo) and on the other hand i feel like saying fk them, they hid away like the rest of Scottish football when VR first tried to bring this issue to the forefront, so hell mend them.

 

What a sad and bitter attitude. Cut off our nose to spite our face. I can see why you like Mr Romanov, since you both seem to like stupid decisions based on bitterness, rather than rational decisions doing what is best for HMFC going forward.

[Gambo]

What a sad and bitter attitude. Cut off our nose to spite our face. I can see why you like Mr Romanov, since you both seem to like stupid decisions based on bitterness, rather than rational decisions doing what is best for HMFC going forward.

 

Did you not see the bit where i said i was in two minds?

 

The time for action imo from all teams was when Romanov first started shouting about it, he brought out into the open something most non old-firm teams and supporters had went on about(quietly) for years. He upset the applecart and folk sh.at themselves and instead of backing him up then, they decided to sweep the issues under the carpet and slag him off instead with the help of the good old 'in the back pocket of the old-firm' media.

 

Utd (like others) decided to wait until it hurts THEM, instead of standing up and being counted when it was hurting all of Scottish football, and it was hurting Scottish Football for years, Romanov spoke out after quickly witnessing what we have all witnessed.

 

Do you support Leveins comments?

[Das Root]

Did you not see the bit where i said i was in two minds?

 

The time for action imo from all teams was when Romanov first started shouting about it, he brought out into the open something most non old-firm teams and supporters had went on about(quietly) for years. He upset the applecart and folk sh.at themselves and instead of backing him up then, they decided to sweep the issues under the carpet and slag him off instead with the help of the good old 'in the back pocket of the old-firm' media.

 

Utd (like others) decided to wait until it hurts THEM, instead of standing up and being counted when it was hurting all of Scottish football, and it was hurting Scottish Football for years, Romanov spoke out after quickly witnessing what we have all witnessed.

 

Do you support Leveins comments?

 

 

 

Vlad should not be of two minds though, now is his chance to make some firm allies, he never will with the OF as they see Hearts as a threat but with the other teams he could create a bond if he chooses to swallow some pride and get in contact.

 

I'm of one mind and that's get it sorted, a fairer league is one in which we have a chance of taking the title.

[Gibbo]

Other clubs made a mistake in not backing us over the Davis affair. We should not compound that mistake by refusing to back Utd this time.

 

Incidentally, there's a flaw in the argument that we got nowhere in our complaints over Davis because of VR's bizarre outbursts. At that time he didn't have a track record of making bizarre outbursts; the comments about monkeys, referees & the love of a woman etc came later. Foulkes made most of the public statements re Davis.

[Cigaro]

I could only be bothered to read the first one. But I presume that they all had evidence.

 

If anyone has any evidence other than refereeing mistakes in Scotland then they should forward it to the SFA so the referees concerned can be hounded out as they should be.

Where did all these clubs get evidence?

 

I bet the same was said by some in those countries as well.

 

If you make the effort to find it, to force an investigation then the rest will come out and begin to stack up.

[Coco]

Where did all these clubs get evidence?

 

I bet the same was said by some in those countries as well.

 

If you make the effort to find it, to force an investigation then the rest will come out and begin to stack up.

 

Yes, if people have evidence then they should produce it.

 

If they don't, like Levein would appear to lack, then they should perhaps be prepared to lose quite a lot of money.

[Gambo]

Vlad should not be of two minds though, now is his chance to make some firm allies, he never will with the OF as they see Hearts as a threat but with the other teams he could create a bond if he chooses to swallow some pride and get in contact.

 

I'm of one mind and that's get it sorted, a fairer league is one in which we have a chance of taking the title.

 

You are probably correct, though Utd wouldn't have to look too hard to find someone with similar outspoken comments to help their case if they do take it further.

 

If they can get VR on board or VR can get Utd on board i don't think it would be too long before the likes of Aberdeen/Hibs/Falkirk knocked on their doors. Just a pity we would have to have waited 2years.

[ToadKiller Dog]

Yes, if people have evidence then they should produce it.

 

If they don't, like Levein would appear to lack, then they should perhaps be prepared to lose quite a lot of money.

 

the facts that show a stonewall penalty not given ,a good goal not given,a penalty at a crucial time in the league cup final not given ,the zander diamond incident,Andy Davis and many others that seem to go toward the old firm in important games warrant an independent investigation into the standards of scottish refs ,there recruitment and training ,that i think is what in essence Dundee united officials are asking for and what the other clubs should 100% be backing them to do,What are the SFA scared of that there only response is the standard one given by Gordon SMITH?.

[Das Root]

Yes, if people have evidence then they should produce it.

 

If they don't, like Levein would appear to lack, then they should perhaps be prepared to lose quite a lot of money.

 

 

As Cigaro said an investigation may very well produce evidence. People aren't just going to hand it over as those with it are going to be neck deep in cack. SFO can start looking at bank accounts, tracking movements, phonecalls, emails and the rest. See what contacts have been made, if money has been paid, if 'perks' have been given and reasons as to why.

 

Rip Hampden apart, go through Greyskull and F@nnydise, see what can be overturned. There is something there for sure, just depends if anyone can be arsed looking.

[Coco]

the facts that show a stonewall penalty not given ,a good goal not given,a penalty at a crucial time in the league cup final not given ,the zander diamond incident,Andy Davis and many others that seem to go toward the old firm in important games warrant an independent investigation into the standards of scottish refs ,there recruitment and training ,that i think is what in essence Dundee united officials are asking for and what the other clubs should 100% be backing them to do,What are the SFA scared of that there only response is the standard one given by Gordon SMITH?.

 

I see. So we are going to investigate the decisions made in important games.

 

What are the important games? What are the important decisions?

 

Do we expect to have any referees left to referee our games if every decision in every game is going to come under scrutiny for bias?

[Jammy T]

You are probably correct, though Utd wouldn't have to look too hard to find someone with similar outspoken comments to help their case if they do take it further.

 

If they can get VR on board or VR can get Utd on board i don't think it would be too long before the likes of Aberdeen/Hibs/Falkirk knocked on their doors. Just a pity we would have to have waited 2years.

 

You're right

 

Mostly borne of frustration that when we were doing well and could really done with the cracking of the establishment nut nobody helped us out

 

Now - with us not doing well and a change in the way the game is run not benefitting us as obviously - there is less forward momentum for us to join in with United, so it is easier for some people to say stuff them

 

I guess if we were within a handful of points of the top of the league and this had happened and we had suffered this season there would be a charge of buffalo of nearly every Hearts fan to agree with United

 

However, the establishment are a hard nut to crack.

 

Levein probably was the first to challenge it, then Romanov, now Levein again. Maybe Eddie Thompson feels he has nothing to lose. Maybe he doesnt.

 

You are right though. Romanov - if he still cares and is passionate about us succeeding - must surely be offering his help and support in any way he can to United (albeit behind the scenes). Surely the sheep will be too? McGhee was incensed by the ref in the Celtic game the other week. The Hobos had a rough ride against Rangers at Easter Road one game this season also

 

If only all of these 4 teams plus us could get over petty rivalries and meet to discuss how to force change.

 

If only.

 

I said it above or elsewhere if the SFA wanted to sort this they could

 

English refs would be a start

 

An independent arbitration dispute referral body would be another

 

Not difficult

 

If every team in Scotland other than the Old Firm all united and voted for these changes surely the SFA / SPL would be painted into a corner?

 

Why wouldnt the SFA / SPL want to rid the Scottish game of any possibility of bias or corruption?

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

I see. So we are going to investigate the decisions made in important games.

 

What are the important games? What are the important decisions?

 

Do we expect to have any referees left to referee our games if every decision in every game is going to come under scrutiny for bias?

 

Every decision is meant to be scrutinised by a referee's assessor already. The question here is why they aren't independent of the SFA because, again, it is a closed shop.

[Guest JamboRobbo]

The time for action imo from all teams was when Romanov first started shouting about it

 

Why exactly? Why should ANYONE listen to some total nutjob who just arrives in the country, and immediately starts ranting and raving about everyone being cheats and monkeys and waving to them on the highway to hell etc etc?

 

Respect is earned, not given. Levein and Thompson have earned respect. Vlad has earned ridicule, by the stupidity of his words and his actions.

 

Take off the blinkers for one second, and explain to me exactly WHY the time for action was "when Romanov started shouting about it", as opposed to when anyone else started shouting about it, (and started shouting A LOT more articulately.....).

 

What was more important about the time that Romanov started shouting about it? What is the difference, other than it was HMFC not DUFC?

 

The difference with Levein IMO, is that he is an articulate and intelligent man, capable of puting across an argument in a coherent fashion. Therefore his is able to gather support, rather than riducule for calling people monkeys.

[Coco]

Every decision is meant to be scrutinised by a referee's assessor already. The question here is why they aren't independent of the SFA because, again, it is a closed shop.

 

Then who shall we get to scrutinise the referees? Italian or Spanish referees where the game is endemic with diving and snidey fouls? English referees - who of course never make mistakes? Pundits?

 

Or should fans on websites decide if a referee has made mistakes/shown incompetence/bias/cheating?

[ToadKiller Dog]

I see. So we are going to investigate the decisions made in important games.

 

What are the important games? What are the important decisions?

 

Do we expect to have any referees left to referee our games if every decision in every game is going to come under scrutiny for bias?

 

No read my post correctly an investigation into the standards of training ,promotion etc within the sfa and the refs ,its clear what big games are its clear that you cannot investigate one decision in isolation ,and its clear that wrong decisions are being made regularly in favour of the old firm ,people are asking why this is ,its about time we got answers as the future of clubs depend on such decisions ,what is there to be scared of to have a fair and open review of scottish ref standards?.

I dont get why you are playing devils advocate on this so strongly?.

 

I also do not get why you would be against a independent review as would the outcome not suit your case if you think its just generally human error?.

[Gambo]

I see. So we are going to investigate the decisions made in important games.

 

What are the important games? What are the important decisions?

 

 

Just looking at 'important games' and 'important decisions' is wrong imo, we should be looking at all old-firm v non-old firm games to show that in those games that the vast majority of decisions go in favour of the old-firm and when it comes to 'important decisions' in those games that majority rises to a near whitewash.

 

You could also prove that the old-firm ARE treated differently to other teams. Ref's comments, how old firm games are scheduled not to take place when league decider etc etc.

 

Wether or not other teams do support Utd/VR the one thing they could not count on will be media support.

[Coco]

No read my post correctly an investigation into the standards of training ,promotion etc within the sfa and the refs ,its clear what big games are its clear that you cannot investigate one decision in isolation ,and its clear that wrong decisions are being made regularly in favour of the old firm ,people are asking why this is ,its about time we got answers as the future of clubs depend on such decisions ,what is there to be scared of to have a fair and open review of scottish ref standards?.

I dont get why you are playing devils advocate on this so strongly?.

 

I also do not get why you would be against a independent review as would the outcome not suit your case if you think its just generally human error?.

 

Yes, I am fully in favour of making sure that the game is fair.

 

Making sure that there are the right procedures for selecting, training, disciplining referees is a good thing. As are the right grievance procedures. All done through the right channels.

 

Histrionic statements about not being allowed to win at Ibrox are not the same as that - tell that to Hibs who did win at Ibrox this year. Did the referee in that game forget to cheat? Or was he one of the pro-OF but slightly in favour of pro-Celtic referees?

[Coco]

Just looking at 'important games' and 'important decisions' is wrong imo, we should be looking at all old-firm v non-old firm games to show that in those games that the vast majority of decisions go in favour of the old-firm and when it comes to 'important decisions' in those games that majority rises to a near whitewash.

 

You could also prove that the old-firm ARE treated differently to other teams. Ref's comments, how old firm games are scheduled not to take place when league decider etc etc.

 

Wether or not other teams do support Utd/VR the one thing they could not count on will be media support.

 

Yes I agree that the timing of OF games and the reported comments from referees about how players are treated in OF games are not what we should expect in terms of fairness. I also think that John Hughes had a great point on selection of referees. These should be discussed through the right channels.

 

I don't think that you can prove the comments in your first paragraph though.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Then who shall we get to scrutinise the referees? Italian or Spanish referees where the game is endemic with diving and snidey fouls? English referees - who of course never make mistakes? Pundits?

 

Or should fans on websites decide if a referee has made mistakes/shown incompetence/bias/cheating?

 

Wait! So foreigners wouldn't be acceptable because mistakes are made in their countries, so we are meant to accept mistakes being made by officials in this country!

 

Personally, I think UEFA should organise a rotational system for assessors to attend matches in all European countries. A fresh approach would do absolutely no harm whatsoever.

[Gambo]

Why exactly? Why should ANYONE listen to some total nutjob who just arrives in the country, and immediately starts ranting and raving about everyone being cheats and monkeys and waving to them on the highway to hell etc etc?

 

Respect is earned, not given. Levein and Thompson have earned respect. Vlad has earned ridicule, by the stupidity of his words and his actions.

 

Take off the blinkers for one second, and explain to me exactly WHY the time for action was "when Romanov started shouting about it", as opposed to when anyone else started shouting about it, (and started shouting A LOT more articulately.....).

 

What was more important about the time that Romanov started shouting about it? What is the difference, other than it was HMFC not DUFC?

 

The difference with Levein IMO, is that he is an articulate and intelligent man, capable of puting across an argument in a coherent fashion. Therefore his is able to gather support, rather than riducule for calling people monkeys.

 

I thought VR was very articulate actually ;-) and the reason i supported him when he first talked about it, was because he was the first person who had the balls to publicly come out and challenge the SFA/officials/status quo and put it out there what most of us thought, pity some of his own teams fans and other teams did not have the balls.

 

Did you support Levein after the Killie/Dougie McDonald game?

[1874robbo]

Why exactly? Why should ANYONE listen to some total nutjob who just arrives in the country, and immediately starts ranting and raving about everyone being cheats and monkeys and waving to them on the highway to hell etc etc?

 

Respect is earned, not given. Levein and Thompson have earned respect. Vlad has earned ridicule, by the stupidity of his words and his actions.

 

Take off the blinkers for one second, and explain to me exactly WHY the time for action was "when Romanov started shouting about it", as opposed to when anyone else started shouting about it, (and started shouting A LOT more articulately.....).

 

What was more important about the time that Romanov started shouting about it? What is the difference, other than it was HMFC not DUFC?

 

The difference with Levein IMO, is that he is an articulate and intelligent man, capable of puting across an argument in a coherent fashion. Therefore his is able to gather support, rather than riducule for calling people monkeys.

 

Is this the same Eddie Thompson that has sacked more managers than any other chairman in the spl? yes he commands respect.

[ToadKiller Dog]

Yes I agree that the timing of OF games and the reported comments from referees about how players are treated in OF games are not what we should expect in terms of fairness. I also think that John Hughes had a great point on selection of referees. These should be discussed through the right channels.

 

I don't think that you can prove the comments in your first paragraph though.

 

The problem is that teams have tried the correct channels and been rebuffed by the SFA ,in fact united are trying that avenue as\we speak ,The St mirren manager tried the same when he had difficulties with the comments of a ref(who i forget) toward him ,he got stonewalled.

 

the best way to clear the air is a proper independent review as i have argued get a respected retired ref from england to form a team to do this.

[Guest JamboRobbo]

I thought VR was very articulate actually ;-) and the reason i supported him when he first talked about it, was because he was the first person who had the balls to publicly come out and challenge the SFA/officials/status quo and put it out there what most of us thought, pity some of his own teams fans and other teams did not have the balls.

 

I must've imagined Levein doing it before Romanov then, and Pieman before him, and plenty others before that.

 

Making a case and putting it across passionately and articulately (as Levein did) takes balls.

 

Calling people cheats and monkeys and blaming others EVERY time your team gets beat (as Vlad did) does not.

 

Did you support Levein after the Killie/Dougie McDonald game?

 

In principle, yes, but I can't remember how clearcut it all was now.

[Gambo]

 

In principle, yes, but I can't remember how clearcut it all was now.

 

So you were happy enough to support Levein in 'principle', even although he used phrases like 'after his 98th mistake' (or similar)? Cant remember his exact number he quoted but it was factually a lie, yet you supported him in principle, yet you cannot support VR in principle because he uses a few 'words'.?

[Erik]

A day later and JR is still going round in circles with his same anti-vlad fuelled rant. How predictable.

 

The time to act was when VR first spoke out. Not because he was the chairman of OUR club - but because he was the first person to have a PROPER go at the SFA.

 

Anything that happened before that with CL never really reached a suitable platform for others to jump on.

 

When VR first spoke out - THAT was the first time the rest of the clubs in the SPL had a valid oppurtunity to back it up.

[Jammy T]

 

When VR first spoke out - THAT was the first time the rest of the clubs in the SPL had a valid oppurtunity to back it up.

 

And now there is another chance

[Erik]

And now there is another chance

 

Correct, and the silence is, AGAIN, deafening.....

[Jammy T]

Correct, and the silence is, AGAIN, deafening.....

 

Well I do hope that there is at least support and consultation behind the scenes between Hearts and United.

 

As I mentioned above, if clubs actually want something done about it there are another 3 bigger clubs that should also be consulting behind the scenes

 

If clubs dont want to do anything about it then they should really tell their managers not to comment on the refs and incur fines

 

If the status quo is not to be challenged I am not sure what the point is in complaining about it.

[Erik]

Well I do hope that there is at least support and consultation behind the scenes between Hearts and United.

 

As I mentioned above, if clubs actually want something done about it there are another 3 bigger clubs that should also be consulting behind the scenes

 

If clubs dont want to do anything about it then they should really tell their managers not to comment on the refs and incur fines

 

If the status quo is not to be challenged I am not sure what the point is in complaining about it.

 

Behind the scenes is no good.

 

If some of the "bigger" clubs genuinely do have a problem with the way the game is officiated with regards to the OF, now is the time to come clean about it.

 

I'd hope to see Aberdeen, Hearts, Hibs, Utd, Killie etc ALL to go public with this now.

 

Sadly..... NONE have. Not even our own club. Embarrassing.

[Cigaro]

Yes, if people have evidence then they should produce it.

 

If they don't, like Levein would appear to lack, then they should perhaps be prepared to lose quite a lot of money.

There will be a time and a place, and in the Daily Record is not that place.

[Jammy T]

Behind the scenes is no good.

 

.

 

Depends

 

If behind the scenes consultation was looking at whether or not some sort of change could be enforced...

 

Scottish clubs outwith the Old Firm have enforced change before - although they bottled it IMO - but there's nothing to say they couldnt do it again

[Erik]

Depends

 

If behind the scenes consultation was looking at whether or not some sort of change could be enforced...

 

Scottish clubs outwith the Old Firm have enforced change before - although they bottled it IMO - but there's nothing to say they couldnt do it again

 

What this needs is backing. Backing from other clubs, from officials / managers / players and supporters.

 

The bigger the number, the more difficult it is to ignore.

 

IMO - to generate the numbers involved in making such a thing happen, it would need to be very public indeed.

[Jammy T]

Levein update from EEN - good to see he's not let go of the bone

 

However, Levein – who saw his team's hopes of a Uefa Cup place disappear at Ibrox – insisted the referee's admission of guilt changes nothing.

 

"I expected Mike McCurry to say that and I expect the SFA will now try and brush it under the carpet," he said. "But it's too late for explanations. We have lost the points and the opportunity to qualify for Europe.

 

"I expected Gordon Smith to back his referees. It's the most annoyed I've ever been. These are not innocuous things like corners or throw-ins, these are goals and penalties and it has happened for years.

 

"You can ask any other team if they get the breaks in crucial matches in Glasgow and the answer will be no. All I can do is complain through the media but Gordon Smith will stick his head in the sand."

 

Levein can now expect to be heavily fined and censured by the SFA, but United are standing firmly behind their manager. Director Derek Robertson issued a statement, saying: "It is widely thought that there is a bias shown against 'provincial' clubs when visiting Glasgow, with Saturday's game a prime example of this.

 

"This is damaging to the game as a whole and Dundee United believes that this situation should not be allowed to continue without careful examination and constructive proposals and dialogue between the clubs and the authorities.

 

"For the record, the club will be backing the manager on all the important issues raised by him and hope that his honestly-held views can be used as a catalyst for constructive change."

[Erik]

Levein update from EEN - good to see he's not let go of the bone

 

However, Levein ? who saw his team's hopes of a Uefa Cup place disappear at Ibrox ? insisted the referee's admission of guilt changes nothing.

 

"I expected Mike McCurry to say that and I expect the SFA will now try and brush it under the carpet," he said. "But it's too late for explanations. We have lost the points and the opportunity to qualify for Europe.

 

"I expected Gordon Smith to back his referees. It's the most annoyed I've ever been. These are not innocuous things like corners or throw-ins, these are goals and penalties and it has happened for years.

 

"You can ask any other team if they get the breaks in crucial matches in Glasgow and the answer will be no. All I can do is complain through the media but Gordon Smith will stick his head in the sand."

 

Levein can now expect to be heavily fined and censured by the SFA, but United are standing firmly behind their manager. Director Derek Robertson issued a statement, saying: "It is widely thought that there is a bias shown against 'provincial' clubs when visiting Glasgow, with Saturday's game a prime example of this.

 

"This is damaging to the game as a whole and Dundee United believes that this situation should not be allowed to continue without careful examination and constructive proposals and dialogue between the clubs and the authorities.

 

"For the record, the club will be backing the manager on all the important issues raised by him and hope that his honestly-held views can be used as a catalyst for constructive change."

 

Ooft - thats a peach!!!!

 

THAT is the statement that should get the other clubs out making similar announcements.

 

Very public. Very explicit. Very much - RITE UP YE.

 

Love it.

[Cigaro]

CO should come out and say exactly the same.

 

I doubt he will though.

[Guest JamboRobbo]

A day later and JR is still going round in circles with his same anti-vlad fuelled rant. How predictable.

 

A day later and you're still talking rubbish. How predictable.

 

The time to act was when VR first spoke out. Not because he was the chairman of OUR club - but because he was the first person to have a PROPER go at the SFA.

 

Anything that happened before that with CL never really reached a suitable platform for others to jump on.

 

When VR first spoke out - THAT was the first time the rest of the clubs in the SPL had a valid oppurtunity to back it up.

 

 

Right enough, CL, Pieman, Jim Mclean, Alex Ferguson etc had never done it before the mad one did?

 

You're saying Vlad was the first EVER to do it, and that was the only time that it was right for clubs to back?

 

Clearly that just isn't true.

 

This has been going on forever. But as usual, you are to busy trying to defend the mad one to look at that actual issue across and it's affects across the whole of Scottish football.

[Guest JamboRobbo]

So you were happy enough to support Levein in 'principle', even although he used phrases like 'after his 98th mistake' (or similar)? Cant remember his exact number he quoted but it was factually a lie, yet you supported him in principle, yet you cannot support VR in principle because he uses a few 'words'.?

 

Aye, whatever Gambo. Twist away - I've remember very quickly why I don't have "debates" with you any more. Cause all you do is try and twist peoples words and put words into peoples mouths using semantics, rather discussing the actual issue at hand.

 

I don't support VR, because he doesn't deserve support.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

A day later and you're still talking rubbish. How predictable.

 

 

 

 

Right enough, CL, Pieman, Jim Mclean, Alex Ferguson etc had never done it before the mad one did?

 

You're saying Vlad was the first EVER to do it, and that was the only time that it was right for clubs to back?

 

Clearly that just isn't true.

 

This has been going on forever. But as usual, you are to busy trying to defend the mad one to look at that actual issue across and it's affects across the whole of Scottish football.

 

The difference being that Hearts demanded an inquiry into the "integrity" of the Davis/Dallas decision, unlike the others you mention for various issues they brought up. We were pillioried for it for even daring to suggest it was an act of cheating - even though it was!

[davieholt]

Ooft - thats a peach!!!!

 

THAT is the statement that should get the other clubs out making similar announcements.

 

Very public. Very explicit. Very much - RITE UP YE.

 

Love it.

 

from the BBC website

 

"Thompson told BBC Scotland that he has received messages of support from representatives of other teams who are unhappy with the way their matches have been refereed."

[Cigaro]

These teams should go public then.

 

And I hope we are one of them.

[Gambo]

Aye, whatever Gambo. Twist away - I've remember very quickly why I don't have "debates" with you any more. Cause all you do is try and twist peoples words and put words into peoples mouths using semantics, rather discussing the actual issue at hand.

 

I don't support VR, because he doesn't deserve support.

 

Why do you always have to turn the debate into 'twisting words'? Correct me if i have got you wrong, debate the points made, or even edit your post and hide a wee comment in the 'reason for editing' box, but replying with 'you twist my words' is boring. (others manage to do this)

 

What part of my posts were not about the debate? You had said things about Levein being different from VR in the way he goes about it, i pointed out that Levein has 'lied' and ranted, just like VR has used words and ranted etc etc.

 

You really have an issue about folk debating/querying your points...............maybe a fans forum where debates of different opinions will take place, is not the place for you.

 

We know you find it hard to support anything to do with the Hearts/VR, you were the one poster who managed to moan and try and find fault about our biggest sponsorship deal in history (umbro ?2m) if my memory serves me correct.

 

You always tell us you will be the first to congratulate VR when he does something worthwhile, yet even when he/the club does do something you have always got to find a 'but' or a negative.

 

If VR throws his weight behind Levein/Utd will you no longer support their efforts at stamping out the problem just because VR is involved or thinks the same.

[Guest JamboRobbo]

Why do you always have to turn the debate into 'twisting words'?

 

Cause that is all you ever do when I make the effort to attempt debate with you. Therefore I won't waste my time attempting to debate with you. I have nothing further to say to you. Goodbye.

[i8hibsh]

I hope with all of my Heart that DUFC win.

 

I know they wont tho as it will open up the biggest can of worms ever.

 

Where would you stop?

 

Every team could hand a dossier bigger than the Eiffel Tower on the bias of refs and the GFA towards the ugly sisters

 

The GFA are repsonsible for over 100 years of bribery and corruption.

 

No disclaimers this time mods.......... They are FACT!!

 

They can sue me if they want.

 

I am so sickened by it I have lost faith in Scottish Football.

 

I have apthey towards the National team and I hate saying it but although my love for Hearts will never fade, I simply have given up!

 

I despise ALL things about our league, the set-up,the fans and the players(non Hearts obviously)

 

I hate Glasgow and it's Footballing Association so much it consumes me.

 

My advice to DUFC is not to waste their money as alassadly there is only going to be one winner and it is not them.

 

Until we have TV evidence at every game Celtic and Rangers will continue to win the league by a canter. We will continue to waste our money and 'provincial' managers will continue to pay fines to the GFA for speaking out that in turn will go towards to inner circle of corruption.

 

My suggestion some time ago on JKB is a fantastic one IMO. All clubs outside the OLd Firm need to unite and make a stand. refuse to play them until an independent body comes in to do the biggest investigation that would put the Madaleine McCann case to shame is carried out.

 

After all the filty weegie bigots need us A LOT more than we need them!

[Erik]

A day later and you're still talking rubbish. How predictable.

 

 

 

 

Right enough, CL, Pieman, Jim Mclean, Alex Ferguson etc had never done it before the mad one did?

 

You're saying Vlad was the first EVER to do it, and that was the only time that it was right for clubs to back?

 

Clearly that just isn't true.

 

This has been going on forever. But as usual, you are to busy trying to defend the mad one to look at that actual issue across and it's affects across the whole of Scottish football.

 

Oh how ironic that your on this thread having a go at someone else for twisting words when thats 100% what you've done with my post.

 

Couple of points worth noting

 

- I didnt say Vlad was the first to do so. Clearly that ridicules your first 3 paragraphs. Go back and read what I had said please before you make foolish assumptions.

 

I said that the instance with Vlad was what i believe the first suitable platform for other clubs to jump on board. Things that had happened prior to Vlad were very specifically to do with particular instances, where it was not the place of other clubs to comment.

 

With Vlad, the subject matter was far more general - and thus the input of other teams would have been far more appropriate.

 

- As usual, i'm trying to defend the mad one??? Erm..... wrong again numbnuts. I'm as anti-vlad as the next person on here. If there was another option, i'd love for them to boot Vlad right back out our club.

 

BUT - I will not criticise him for things that I dont think he has wrong. I will criticise him till the cows coem home for the things he deserves criticism for. The way he TRIED to stand up to the SFA is to be admired, and my hatred for the man and what he's done to our club will not change the fact that I choose to admire his line of thought on that particular subject matter.

 

- Its effects across the whole of scottish football?? Have you not seen my other posts stating that CL and Utd have my full backing then no???

 

So, thats the remainder of your post well and truly rammed back up that pretentious backside of yours.

 

As Gambo says - if your not here to debate fair points and instead just to insist that everyone MUST follow YOUR line of thought - I suggest you do one.

[Guest JamboRobbo]

Oh how ironic that your on this thread having a go at someone else for twisting words when thats 100% what you've done with my post.

 

Couple of points worth noting

 

- I didnt say Vlad was the first to do so. Clearly that ridicules your first 3 paragraphs. Go back and read what I had said please before you make foolish assumptions.

 

I said that the instance with Vlad was what i believe the first suitable platform for other clubs to jump on board. Things that had happened prior to Vlad were very specifically to do with particular instances, where it was not the place of other clubs to comment.

 

With Vlad, the subject matter was far more general - and thus the input of other teams would have been far more appropriate.

 

Sounds to me like you are just making up a justification to suggest Vlads case was unique in some way, when the only thing unique about it was the poor quality of the accusations made.

 

 

- As usual, i'm trying to defend the mad one??? Erm..... wrong again numbnuts. I'm as anti-vlad as the next person on here. If there was another option, i'd love for them to boot Vlad right back out our club.

 

BUT - I will not criticise him for things that I dont think he has wrong. I will criticise him till the cows coem home for the things he deserves criticism for. The way he TRIED to stand up to the SFA is to be admired, and my hatred for the man and what he's done to our club will not change the fact that I choose to admire his line of thought on that particular subject matter.

 

So you don't think he could've worded his complaints better?

 

- Its effects across the whole of scottish football?? Have you not seen my other posts stating that CL and Utd have my full backing then no???

 

Nope, apologies for not following you around reading all your posts.

 

So, thats the remainder of your post well and truly rammed back up that pretentious backside of yours.

 

As Gambo says - if your not here to debate fair points and instead just to insist that everyone MUST follow YOUR line of thought - I suggest you do one.

 

Wow. That hurt so much.

 

Okay doke. Just for you, I'll do one.

 

Aye right I will.

[Erik]

Sounds to me like you are just making up a justification to suggest Vlads case was unique in some way, when the only thing unique about it was the poor quality of the accusations made.

 

 

 

 

Okay doke. Just for you, I'll do one.

 

Aye right I will.

 

Again, complete avoidance of the points made as they dont suit your own agenda. Nice.

 

Dunno why I even bother.