FOH - Live Web Chat With Ian Murray MP at 12:30

[Poseidon]

Open to working with other bidders if it was required

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

One for our overseas readers:

 

"This has to be a seperate system for audit, money laundering and costs purposes. We will be using merchant pay and this takes time to set up properly but should be live very soon. I know people talk about paypal etc but it does not gives us the ability to be completely transaprent and to be able to return the money easily."

Yep, thankfully Bring On The Future answered this the other day (thanks to him for that). Just want it up and running now.

[Poseidon]

Can you also confirm that the pledgers will not be personally liable for any business losses sustained if FOH do take control ?

 

 

 

The FoH is set up as a company limited by guarantee so the liability of a memebr is restricted to ?1.

[tartofmidlothian]

"25% more pledgers in 2 days"

 

Great stuff.

[Koolkeith]

Looking at getting access to the club's 71,000 name database. I wouldn't imagine they could just be given it on data protection grounds, but presumably he means have the club mail everyone on their behalf.

 

Fantastic if so.

 

Was going to post to ask whether they could get access to the database to cross reference the pledgers, which would effectively weed out any Hibs fans?

[henry]

Looking at getting access to the club's 71,000 name database. I wouldn't imagine they could just be given it on data protection grounds, but presumably he means have the club mail everyone on their behalf.

 

Fantastic if so.

 

That's what's needed

[Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC]

Getting access to the database is crucial. There are a lot of folk who aren't being reached via the current methods.

[Paolo]

Getting access to the database is crucial. There are a lot of folk who aren't being reached via the current methods.

It is crucial, but legally, they are not entitled to it.

[Cartman]

Much more positive on STs though

 

Excuse me but when you take over the club you can presumably do what you like so why would the administrator have a say in that?!

[The Merse]

Getting access to the database is crucial. There are a lot of folk who aren't being reached via the current methods.

 

Is there seriously people still unaware as to what is going on and what FoH are trying to do?

 

Anyone with even a mild interest would surely know what is going on.

[tartofmidlothian]

It is crucial, but legally, they are not entitled to it.

 

Although like I said, hopefully if FoH and the club/admins are trying to push a sale through then the club can send an email round on their behalf.

[Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC]

 

 

Is there seriously people still unaware as to what is going on and what FoH are trying to do?

 

Anyone with even a mild interest would surely know what is going on.

 

If I wasn't on kickback I wouldnt be aware of them other than a leaflet at a game months ago.

[tartofmidlothian]

Comment From Alan What about fake pledges using valid email addresses and names? I've asked this 3 times now and you've not listed it!!!!

 

 

WHEARS MY ANSWIR!!!???

[livingstonjambo]

Excuse me but when you take over the club you can presumably do what you like so why would the administrator have a say in that?!

 

Im pretty sure that if the administrator nullified current season tickets there would be VAT implications if the new owners actually then allowed them. I think it woulnd mean the club would have to pay 20% VAT on all ST's which would be crazy when trying to start again debt free.

[hughesie27]

They have factored in genuine email addresses but not genuine pledgers and 5000 is the actual number they believe to be real people.

[tartofmidlothian]

Is there seriously people still unaware as to what is going on and what FoH are trying to do?

 

Anyone with even a mild interest would surely know what is going on.

 

Say we who are glued to Kickback. There'll be tons of folk to whom FoH are barely a rumour.

[Poseidon]

Excuse me but when you take over the club you can presumably do what you like so why would the administrator have a say in that?!

None of the bids might reach what the administrators would feel enable the club to be a going concern unless it is recommended STs are declared null and void and bought again? Complete guess

[hughesie27]

 

 

Comment From BS Can you confirm that this is a live webchat, and not pre-recorded as an advertising feature for FoH?

 

 

 

13:15

Its 13:15 and I'm replying to you live

 

 

 

[Kalamazoo Jambo]

"Can you confirm that this is a live webchat, and not pre-recorded as an advertising feature for FoH?"

[tartofmidlothian]

Comment From BS Can you confirm that this is a live webchat, and not pre-recorded as an advertising feature for FoH?

13:15 Its 13:15 and I'm replying to you live

 

Jesus wept.

[Kalamazoo Jambo]

Is there seriously people still unaware as to what is going on and what FoH are trying to do?

Yes.

[Poseidon]

Comment from swavkav but no avatar

[graygo]

Comment from swavkav but no avatar

 

[Diadora Van Basten]

Unfortunately I am of the opinion that FOH are very amateurish.

 

To be paying VAT on pledges to raise a capital sum is lunacy. Also why not offer incentives for those that pledge.

 

Personally I would rather fund the takeover through a debenture scheme than the current pledge system.

[tartofmidlothian]

On the subject of being able to compete post takeover:

 

Over the last few years Hearts have had a tunrover of between ?6m and ?10m. If you use the FIFA and UEFA rule of thumb in terms of wages being 60% of turnover then that gives you an annual wage bill of at least ?3.6m. That will be the highest outside the old firm I suspect.

[Poseidon]

[hughesie27]

Unfortunately I am of the opinion that FOH are very amateurish.

 

To be paying VAT on pledges to raise a capital sum is lunacy. Also why not offer incentives for those that pledge.

 

Personally I would rather fund the takeover through a debenture scheme than the current pledge system.

 

They won't be paying VAT on pledges.

[Poseidon]

Comment From Chris Chris : ] What about the stadium? The club do not own it, is that correct? Where will club play?

 

 

 

Tuesday June 18, 2013 13:21 Chris

 

13:21 The stadium is techincally owned byb UKIO bankas as standard security on their ?15m debt. It will need to be part of the overall deal.

[tartofmidlothian]

Unfortunately I am of the opinion that FOH are very amateurish.

 

To be paying VAT on pledges to raise a capital sum is lunacy. Also why not offer incentives for those that pledge.

 

Personally I would rather fund the takeover through a debenture scheme than the current pledge system.

 

 

They're not offering incentives because that way they don't need to pay VAT.

[Koolkeith]

They have factored in genuine email addresses but not genuine pledgers and 5000 is the actual number they believe to be real people.

 

Based on the fact we had about 3,000 people buy shared the first time I think we can say out of the 5000 at least 3 or 4,000 will be genuine.

[Poseidon]

[Comment From jordan jordan : ] can parents pledge money for there children ?

 

 

 

Tuesday June 18, 2013 13:20 jordan

 

13:21 You can on the online system but anyone under the age of 16 will be honorary members as they would not be allowed to stand for election to the Board.

[Ribble]

They have factored in genuine email addresses but not genuine pledgers and 5000 is the actual number they believe to be real people.

 

From what he said is that they have removed false email addresses and those with any obvious hibs connection (ie Pat Stanton and Albert Kidd in the name) but after that there is no way of telling if for example [email protected] is going to actually pony up any cash until the pledges are converted!

[livingstonjambo]

Unfortunately I am of the opinion that FOH are very amateurish.

 

To be paying VAT on pledges to raise a capital sum is lunacy. Also why not offer incentives for those that pledge.

 

Personally I would rather fund the takeover through a debenture scheme than the current pledge system.

 

The reason they have to be carefull on what other 'rewards' are available to members is to avoid the 20% VAT. I think if becoming only a member with no benefits no VAT is liable

[Poseidon]

Right, I've to get back to work but very good questions and answers from Ian today, I hope enough people get behind this and they can be in a position to make an offer as per their plan

[graygo]

From what he said is that they have removed false email addresses and those with any obvious hibs connection (ie Pat Stanton and Albert Kidd in the name) but after that there is no way of telling if for example [email protected] is going to actually pony up any cash until the pledges are converted!

 

Which maybe suggest that they should have been taking the monies a while back, even just a ?1 to confirm it was legit.

[Diadora Van Basten]

 

 

 

They're not offering incentives because that way they don't need to pay VAT.

 

I stand corrected i have just re read the comment at 13 08.

[tartofmidlothian]

The business plan is to firstly get the club living within its means. When that has happened it will be about ensuring we have the best possible team on the park within that envelope. There is also the issues around the main stand and that will be a key bit of work for the FoH to undertake. The emphsis on youth development is critical and we are glad to have Claum Robertson of the HYDC on the board.

[The Brow]

I think he's coming across quite well despite a few utter numpties on the webchat.

 

Also said he doesn't think the Norwegians are serious.

[Footballfirst]

Getting access to the database is crucial. There are a lot of folk who aren't being reached via the current methods.

 

It is crucial, but legally, they are not entitled to it.

 

HYDC had a similar problem a few years back and I don't think they ever did get access to it. However, IIRC they asked the club if they could issue certain emails on behalf of HYDC, i.e. it was the club who were contacting those on the database and not HYDC. I'm sure that HYDC were still restricted on the material that they were able to put out that way though.

 

I can't see FoH getting the administrator to agree to doing something similar, as he would have to provide the same facility for all other bidders.

[hughesie27]

Based on the fact we had about 3,000 people buy shared the first time I think we can say out of the 5000 at least 3 or 4,000 will be genuine.

From what he said is that they have removed false email addresses and those with any obvious hibs connection (ie Pat Stanton and Albert Kidd in the name) but after that there is no way of telling if for example [email protected] is going to actually pony up any cash until the pledges are converted!

 

5000 is the number the believe to be the ACTUAL NUMBER OF REAL PLEDGES. After remoeving fake email addresses, shan names and then on top of that a guesstimate of further real people who won't actually pledge in the end.

 

Of course the last filter is impossible to know precisely but really, how sad are Hibs fans to go through all that trouble after all the obvious stuff.

 

We will have a much better idea when pledges are converted.

[tartofmidlothian]

Mention for Kickback.

 

I hope he answers "Kickback's for arseholes". Top WUM if so.

[MrWinningSmith]

Message to Kickback haters:-

 

 

 

We are all doing this in the interests of the Club. If you do not like with the FoH are proposing then get on Board as a member and change it. It is your Club and it would be owned by you. THere is nothing set in stone.

 

I do accept the criticisms that marketing has not been as good as it should be but we are trying our best to get the message out.

 

We are doing these forums, having meetings with fans, and communciationg as best as we can.

 

We will not please everyone but all we ask is a chance to see what we can achieve.

 

It doesn't cost the fan anything if we are not succssful so what is there to lose?

[girvanjambo]

Solid answers from Ian Murray IMO. Pledge made. And don't see any alternative but to pledge, for any Hearts fan.

[Ribble]

5000 is the number the believe to be the ACTUAL NUMBER OF REAL PLEDGES. After remoeving fake email addresses, shan names and then on top of that a guesstimate of further real people who won't actually pledge in the end.

 

Of course the last filter is impossible to know precisely but really, how sad are Hibs fans to go through all that trouble after all the obvious stuff.

 

We will have a much better idea when pledges are converted.

 

But until the pledges are converted it is still a guesstimate, yes? My concern is that they are planning to make a bid on the 30th June which will be based on guesswork as pledges aren't being converted until the 4th of July!

[The Brow]

Comment From Graeme Graeme : ] Does the FOH have the captial resource to supplement the pledges which are converted. As much as the fans ownership model is a viable option running a football club is a very expensive business. As it stands we are struggling to field a team so there would be some adequate capital injected. What's your thoughts? Thanks

 

 

 

Tuesday June 18, 2013 13:31 Graeme

 

13:32 We are exploring a number of avenues at the moment and have been progressing this. It is a little chicken and egg as we need the revenue requirement to capitalise but we need to convince people we have access to acapital befor ethey pledge.

 

We do have resources avenues available to us.;

[Angry Haggis]

Can someone launch a social engineering attack/hack on Hearts IT Dept to get the database of 71,000 names/email address on their system and hand over to FoH please.

 

Just kidding of course...

 

[The Brow]

But until the pledges are converted it is still a guesstimate, yes? My concern is that they are planning to make a bid on the 30th June which will be based on guesswork as pledges aren't being converted until the 4th of July!

 

I get what you;re saying but how else do you perceive they go ahead?

[Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC]

 

 

 

 

HYDC had a similar problem a few years back and I don't think they ever did get access to it. However, IIRC they asked the club if they could issue certain emails on behalf of HYDC, i.e. it was the club who were contacting those on the database and not HYDC. I'm sure that HYDC were still restricted on the material that they were able to put out that way though.

 

I can't see FoH getting the administrator to agree to doing something similar, as he would have to provide the same facility for all other bidders.

 

Tricky situation but there must be some way around it. Imagine having direct access to every active hearts fan. Pledges would double overnight.

 

[tartofmidlothian]

He says Motherwell's situation is one to aspire to, quite right too.

 

Aside from being based in Motherwell.

[blairdin]

This is a much more productive Q&A than the one on Friday with some good clear answers coming out.

 

Dare I say that this is because FoH, despite what they were suggesting publically, were waiting for administration before pressing on with their bid. It makes sense from a business perspective (if not a moral one if it is fan ownership) and I've been suspicious for the last few weeks that they were stalling.

 

There's lots of good answers in the webchat, but they haven't been conjoured up in the last 24 hours.