Scottish independence and devolution superthread

[JudyJudyJudy]

2 hours ago, Lord Montpelier said:

Humzas brother in law nicked again after "man falls from window". 

Jezz 

 

Edited January 16 by JudyJudyJudy

[TallPaul]

Time to reintroduce tuition fees so we are less reliant on foreign students? Less places now at Uni for our own kids 

 

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/24052127.university-places-scots-set-slashed-budget-plans/?ref=socialflow&fbclid=IwAR1iRgr1jI7VWU8EGHx0cf-A060H0JWzf1WmY0OEqpE-Au59-MiTlIB41-o

[TallPaul]

2 hours ago, Lord Montpelier said:

Humzas brother in law nicked again after "man falls from window". 

Scotland Premier Crime Family. Saying that he probably has an extended family reaching into a 4 figure number 

[il Duce McTarkin]

4 minutes ago, TallPaul said:

Scotland Premier Crime Family. Saying that he probably has an extended family reaching into a 4 figure number 

 

[TallPaul]

Just now, il Duce McTarkin said:

 

👍👍

[JudyJudyJudy]

59 minutes ago, Lord Montpelier said:

Give him a break, he's only on 170k per year. 

They really are ripping the pish 

 

 

https://x.com/scotexpress/status/1747235444461363555?s=46&t=Uyg6zS_aUfEwlXY6vOoxzQ

 

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

2 minutes ago, TallPaul said:

👍👍

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

11 minutes ago, TallPaul said:

Scotland Premier Crime Family. Saying that he probably has an extended family reaching into a 4 figure number 

 

[il Duce McTarkin]

44 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

 

 

[Boof]

1 hour ago, TallPaul said:

Scotland Premier Crime Family. Saying that he probably has an extended family reaching into a 4 figure number 

 

Why's that?

[JudyJudyJudy]

18 minutes ago, il Duce McTarkin said:

 

😃

[JudyJudyJudy]

It gets worse 

 

https://x.com/niallfraser8/status/1747201889018474713?s=46&t=Uyg6zS_aUfEwlXY6vOoxzQ

 

 

[Unknown user]

2 hours ago, Boof said:

 

Why's that?

 

It's big Po mind, he could mean 4

[Malinga the Swinga]

4 hours ago, TallPaul said:

Time to reintroduce tuition fees so we are less reliant on foreign students? Less places now at Uni for our own kids 

 

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/24052127.university-places-scots-set-slashed-budget-plans/?ref=socialflow&fbclid=IwAR1iRgr1jI7VWU8EGHx0cf-A060H0JWzf1WmY0OEqpE-Au59-MiTlIB41-o

While it's amusing to read about Humza's family issues, this is far more important. A flagship policy disintegrating in front of our eyes, a policy that was trumpeted from rooftops as being world beating and yet here we are, slashing budget that affects Scottish kids whilst spending money on kiddy on foreign embassies, trying to put a ferry in the sea and sending funds to Gaza.

What a shower of shit the SNP are.

The question Is, is there anything worse in politics than the SNP? Certainly not in Scotland.

[TallPaul]

1 hour ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

It gets worse 

 

https://x.com/niallfraser8/status/1747201889018474713?s=46&t=Uyg6zS_aUfEwlXY6vOoxzQ

 

 

Losing 38 loyal customers must have been tough for him

[JudyJudyJudy]

43 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

While it's amusing to read about Humza's family issues, this is far more important. A flagship policy disintegrating in front of our eyes, a policy that was trumpeted from rooftops as being world beating and yet here we are, slashing budget that affects Scottish kids whilst spending money on kiddy on foreign embassies, trying to put a ferry in the sea and sending funds to Gaza.

What a shower of shit the SNP are.

The question Is, is there anything worse in politics than the SNP? Certainly not in Scotland.

And cutting £200 million off the housing budget ! The crisis in Scotland I feel 

[TallPaul]

[Lord Montpelier]

15 minutes ago, TallPaul said:

Someone say Indywanker ?

 

[Gundermann]

Now then... That's 26% from something like 8% of the UK population and not including other stuff like fish and meat. No wonder London won't give us another effin Indyref.

 

[Ked]

https://www.lawscot.org.uk/news-and-events/blogs-opinions/a-scottish-perspective-on-the-post-office-horizon-scandal/

 

The section on why this has happened is pretty damning on the Procurator Fiscal.

 

[Ked]

2 minutes ago, Ked said:

https://www.lawscot.org.uk/news-and-events/blogs-opinions/a-scottish-perspective-on-the-post-office-horizon-scandal/

 

The section on why this has happened is pretty damning on the Procurator Fiscal.

 

Sorry wrong thread.

[Hagar the Horrible]

14 hours ago, Gundermann said:

Now then... That's 26% from something like 8% of the UK population and not including other stuff like fish and meat. No wonder London won't give us another effin Indyref.

 

40% of our whisky is owned by Diagio of London, and 20% is owned by Pernod Ricard of France, Bacardi own 6%, Suntory of Japan 3%, 1% American, Moet/Louis Vuitton .5%  Pretty much in total 75% are NOT Scottish owned, we wont see the profits from this under Indy

[Unknown user]

3 minutes ago, Hagar the Horrible said:

40% of our whisky is owned by Diagio of London, and 20% is owned by Pernod Ricard of France, Bacardi own 6%, Suntory of Japan 3%, 1% American, Moet/Louis Vuitton .5%  Pretty much in total 75% are NOT Scottish owned, we wont see the profits from this under Indy

 

What's that got to do with taxing exports?

[jack D and coke]

3 minutes ago, Hagar the Horrible said:

40% of our whisky is owned by Diagio of London, and 20% is owned by Pernod Ricard of France, Bacardi own 6%, Suntory of Japan 3%, 1% American, Moet/Louis Vuitton .5%  Pretty much in total 75% are NOT Scottish owned, we wont see the profits from this under Indy

It’s britains biggest export food and drink wise…brings in billions. 
Scotland will make plums tho??

 

Bonkers you lot honestly. 

[i wish jj was my dad]

Didappointed with the direction this debate is heading. 

Can we not get back to images of a googlie eyed FM who is diverting taxpayers money to fund muslim terrorist organisations?  And chuck in his support for the narcotics trade in Scotland while we are at it. 

That's a far more constructive debate than getting into the housing crisis or the economic potential of whisky and remewables. 

[Ulysses]

23 minutes ago, ǝǝɥʇᴉɯS said:

 

What's that got to do with taxing exports?

 

Taxing exports?

 

Wait ****ing what now?

[pablo]

48 minutes ago, ǝǝɥʇᴉɯS said:

 

What's that got to do with taxing exports?

 

[manaliveits105]

1 hour ago, i wish jj was my dad said:

Didappointed with the direction this debate is heading. 

Can we not get back to images of a googlie eyed FM who is diverting taxpayers money to fund muslim terrorist organisations?  And chuck in his support for the narcotics trade in Scotland while we are at it. 

That's a far more constructive debate than getting into the housing crisis or the economic potential of whisky and remewables. 

Rather not have extremely dodgy people looking after our interests in Holyrood thanks 

[il Duce McTarkin]

1 hour ago, i wish jj was my dad said:

Didappointed with the direction this debate is heading. 

Can we not get back to images of a googlie eyed FM who is diverting taxpayers money to fund muslim terrorist organisations?  And chuck in his support for the narcotics trade in Scotland while we are at it. 

That's a far more constructive debate than getting into the housing crisis or the economic potential of whisky and remewables. 

 

They were amusing memes though, you have to admit, no?

[Ulysses]

1 hour ago, manaliveits105 said:

Rather not have extremely dodgy people looking after our interests in Holyrood thanks 

 

I didn't think you had any interest in Holyrood. 

[New Town Loafer]

17 hours ago, Gundermann said:

Now then... That's 26% from something like 8% of the UK population and not including other stuff like fish and meat. No wonder London won't give us another effin Indyref.

 

You had your IndyRef and you ****ed it. The only way an independent Scotland could possibly work would be if it was aggressively right-wing. No welfare, low tax. Still fancy it?

[Boris]

2 hours ago, Hagar the Horrible said:

40% of our whisky is owned by Diagio of London, and 20% is owned by Pernod Ricard of France, Bacardi own 6%, Suntory of Japan 3%, 1% American, Moet/Louis Vuitton .5%  Pretty much in total 75% are NOT Scottish owned, we wont see the profits from this under Indy

 

Would these companies not pay some sort of business tax?

 

I mean, they are surely paying something into the Westminster exchequer at the moment?

[JudyJudyJudy]

37 minutes ago, il Duce McTarkin said:

 

They were amusing memes though, you have to admit, no?

 

[That thing you do]

On 16/01/2024 at 05:58, Nucky Thompson said:

I think the SNP would stand a better chance of gaining independence if they changed to a more centre right party

And there in lies the problem

 

If you analyse where on the political spectrum the parties are, Tories are just left of the Nazis, Labour are a right wing party comfortably and the SNP are dead centre but just leaning towards the right.

 

The idea that they have to go more right to win votes for independence, says alot about the right drift of every party in the UK. Maybe its right though, England is conservative with a gigantic C Scotland is right wing with a growing C?

 

I weep if the differences between parties is a bawhair to the right.

[That thing you do]

52 minutes ago, New Town Loafer said:

You had your IndyRef and you ****ed it. The only way an independent Scotland could possibly work would be if it was aggressively right-wing. No welfare, low tax. Still fancy it?

That isnt actually true, largely as the economic data used to judge this (and the deficit) are a complete nonsense and easily ripped apart. They do not in any way tell the story of how Scotland will do independent. And there are many reasons why:

 

- The assumptions that 8% of economic outpút (and spend) = Scotland is a nonsense for all sorts of reasons. It might make statistics easy, but its doesnt come close to reality. There are shares we have well above 8% and shares below, the average is not 8% though

- For a start, spend per head is different in a geogrpahically dispersed Scotland than a south centric England.

-Taxes raised in Scotland are well above the assumed 8%

- GERS assumes we keep the same spending after independence. But we would spend the same on everything because we would no longer pay a % of UK projects (whether in Scotland or not) as we do now. There would be no HS2 bill, very different defence spending, different priorities in terms of economic policy, so the figures are very misleading.

- Scottish Industry pays a fee for access to UK Embassies overseas to sell their produce. This would not happen if they were our and/or an EU partners embassy representing us.

 

Im all for people wanting to stay in the union if they want that, but the only real argument for it is "I like the Union" (ie the Rangers response) and "I dont want to pay any price for the initial upheaval even if it Scotland would be better off in the long run". (the who cares about anyone other than myself response)

 

There is literally no other argument for the Union that cant be dealt with and settled. If the union was such a good idea youd see more countries joining forces. Instead you see more independent states forming, though they do join economic clubs for obvious reasons, be that EU or ASEAN or other.

 

There is no economic arguement for giving your neighbour 60% of what you earn and having them spend it on your behalf. Otherwise wed have collectivist cul de sac pooling and sharing for the greater good and countries merging all over the world. As for the "we do most of our trade twith England" argument, theyve already cut off the EU to their cosr, they have a CTA agreement with Ireland, they are not, regardless of the rhetoric going to cut off their nose to spite their face and block trade with Scotland. They cant afford to for one, not just economically but also they need our excess electricity and water to keep the lights and taps on. Why else would a water pipeline be getting built as we speak to pump water south? https://www.scotsman.com/news/environment/ps14bn-plan-to-share-scots-water-with-england-1520284 Why else would Scotland have higher tariffs for electric than anywhere else but a surplus of power. The oil is another point you can make here too. Be in no doubt, they need us. If we were a basket case, Cameron wouldve gladly sent us on our way as would Boris. They dont because its ruse.

 

But as someone else was saying on here, it seems Scotland has floated a bit more right itself and so right leaning probably is true. 

 

I still maintain that Scotland can do better than shackled to whatever disaster England decide to thrust on it, but hey ho, if youre happy with that, good for you. The SNP is a vehicle (a bad one sadly) for getting independence but it wouldnt run Scotland. There would be a general election for Indy Scotland, new parties would form and the SNP broad church would split itself into them.

 

And yes, a Scottish government wouldnt be perfect, no Government is. But for every late ship in Scotland there is a Post Office and HS2 in the UK.

Edited January 17 by That thing you do

[BlueRiver]

3 hours ago, Ulysses said:

 

Taxing exports?

 

Wait ****ing what now?

 

Done to death over multiple threads but yep, that seems to be what folk think we do/should do. 

[BlueRiver]

24 minutes ago, That thing you do said:

That isnt actually true, largely as the economic data used to judge this (and the deficit) are a complete nonsense and easily ripped apart. They do not in any way tell the story of how Scotland will do independent. And there are many reasons why:

 

- The assumptions that 8% of economic outpút (and spend) = Scotland is a nonsense for all sorts of reasons. It might make statistics easy, but its doesnt come close to reality. There are shares we have well above 8% and shares below, the average is not 8% though

- For a start, spend per head is different in a geogrpahically dispersed Scotland than a south centric England.

-Taxes raised in Scotland are well above the assumed 8%

- GERS assumes we keep the same spending after independence. But we would spend the same on everything because we would no longer pay a % of UK projects (whether in Scotland or not) as we do now. There would be no HS2 bill, very different defence spending, different priorities in terms of economic policy, so the figures are very misleading.

- Scottish Industry pays a fee for access to UK Embassies overseas to sell their produce. This would not happen if they were our and/or an EU partners embassy representing us.

 

Im all for people wanting to stay in the union if they want that, but the only real argument for it is "I like the Union" (ie the Rangers response) and "I dont want to pay any price for the initial upheaval even if it Scotland would be better off in the long run". (the who cares about anyone other than myself response)

 

There is literally no other argument for the Union that cant be dealt with and settled. If the union was such a good idea youd see more countries joining forces. Instead you see more independent states forming, though they do join economic clubs for obvious reasons, be that EU or ASEAN or other.

 

There is no economic arguement for giving your neighbour 60% of what you earn and having them spend it on your behalf. Otherwise wed have collectivist cul de sac pooling and sharing for the greater good and countries merging all over the world. As for the "we do most of our trade twith England" argument, theyve already cut off the EU to their cosr, they have a CTA agreement with Ireland, they are not, regardless of the rhetoric going to cut off their nose to spite their face and block trade with Scotland. They cant afford to for one, not just economically but also they need our excess electricity and water to keep the lights and taps on. Why else would a water pipeline be getting built as we speak to pump water south? https://www.scotsman.com/news/environment/ps14bn-plan-to-share-scots-water-with-england-1520284 Why else would Scotland have higher tariffs for electric than anywhere else but a surplus of power. The oil is another point you can make here too. Be in no doubt, they need us. If we were a basket case, Cameron wouldve gladly sent us on our way as would Boris. They dont because its ruse.

 

But as someone else was saying on here, it seems Scotland has floated a bit more right itself and so right leaning probably is true. 

 

I still maintain that Scotland can do better than shackled to whatever disaster England decide to thrust on it, but hey ho, if youre happy with that, good for you. The SNP is a vehicle (a bad one sadly) for getting independence but it wouldnt run Scotland. There would be a general election for Indy Scotland, new parties would form and the SNP broad church would split itself into them.

 

And yes, a Scottish government wouldnt be perfect, no Government is. But for every late ship in Scotland there is a Post Office and HS2 in the UK.

 

So if you So flippantly dismiss valid responses with arsey names what's your ones for the indy-minded? 

 

"My life is that pish right now I want everyone to suffer in the mid to long term chasing a potential that might never be realised" response? 

 

How much of our excess water is currently piped to England? None. They need it though of course. So badly they haven't used it in the past 300 years. 

Edited January 17 by BlueRiver

[BlueRiver]

I always love that it's fine for the Braveheart lot to be saltire shaggers but god forbid folk quite like the idea of the UK. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

23 minutes ago, That thing you do said:

There would be a general election for Indy Scotland, new parties would form and the SNP broad church would split itself into them.

Fantasy talk , it’ll be the same band of shite jumping on the gravy train in an Indy Scotland , I honestly dread to think what the greens would get up if unchecked by WM as well 

[JudyJudyJudy]

8 minutes ago, BlueRiver said:

I always love that it's fine for the Braveheart lot to be saltire shaggers but god forbid folk quite like the idea of the UK. 

So true . What’s wrong with being proud to being British ? And Scottish ? 

[JudyJudyJudy]

10 minutes ago, BlueRiver said:

 

So if you So flippantly dismiss valid responses with arsey names what's your ones for the indy-minded? 

 

"My life is that pish right now I want everyone to suffer in the mid to long term chasing a potential that might never be realised" response? 

Decades of austerity 

[That thing you do]

3 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

Fantasy talk , it’ll be the same band of shite jumping on the gravy train in an Indy Scotland , I honestly dread to think what the greens would get up if unchecked by WM as well 

You think the factions of the SNP (like Joanna Cherry for example or Kate Forbes) will stay together after the objective is achieved. I dont think so.

By all means with the post office scandal, HS2, Brexit make an argument why we should stay with that. Indy Scotland "might be shite so lets not bother" is a dumb argument when the status quo is 10x more corrupt and inept than what you arew afraid of.

 

[Dawnrazor]

13 minutes ago, BlueRiver said:

 

So if you So flippantly dismiss valid responses with arsey names what's your ones for the indy-minded? 

 

"My life is that pish right now I want everyone to suffer in the mid to long term chasing a potential that might never be realised" response? 

 

How much of our excess water is currently piped to England? None. They need it though of course. So badly they haven't used it in the past 300 years. 

Exactly 👍

[JudyJudyJudy]

Just now, That thing you do said:

You think the factions of the SNP (like Joanna Cherry for example or Kate Forbes) will stay together after the objective is achieved. I dont think so.

By all means with the post office scandal, HS2, Brexit make an argument why we should stay with that. Indy Scotland "might be shite so lets not bother" is a dumb argument when the status quo is 10x more corrupt and inept than what you arew afraid of.

 

Brexit which nearly a million Scot’s voted for ? Post office was a British scandal . I’m happy with the status quo.  . It’s for you to convince people like me to change my mind . I’m not convinced 

[Boof]

30 minutes ago, That thing you do said:

That isnt actually true, largely as the economic data used to judge this (and the deficit) are a complete nonsense and easily ripped apart. They do not in any way tell the story of how Scotland will do independent. And there are many reasons why:

 

- The assumptions that 8% of economic outpút (and spend) = Scotland is a nonsense for all sorts of reasons. It might make statistics easy, but its doesnt come close to reality. There are shares we have well above 8% and shares below, the average is not 8% though

- For a start, spend per head is different in a geogrpahically dispersed Scotland than a south centric England.

-Taxes raised in Scotland are well above the assumed 8%

- GERS assumes we keep the same spending after independence. But we would spend the same on everything because we would no longer pay a % of UK projects (whether in Scotland or not) as we do now. There would be no HS2 bill, very different defence spending, different priorities in terms of economic policy, so the figures are very misleading.

- Scottish Industry pays a fee for access to UK Embassies overseas to sell their produce. This would not happen if they were our and/or an EU partners embassy representing us.

 

Im all for people wanting to stay in the union if they want that, but the only real argument for it is "I like the Union" (ie the Rangers response) and "I dont want to pay any price for the initial upheaval even if it Scotland would be better off in the long run". (the who cares about anyone other than myself response)

 

There is literally no other argument for the Union that cant be dealt with and settled. If the union was such a good idea youd see more countries joining forces. Instead you see more independent states forming, though they do join economic clubs for obvious reasons, be that EU or ASEAN or other.

 

There is no economic arguement for giving your neighbour 60% of what you earn and having them spend it on your behalf. Otherwise wed have collectivist cul de sac pooling and sharing for the greater good and countries merging all over the world. As for the "we do most of our trade twith England" argument, theyve already cut off the EU to their cosr, they have a CTA agreement with Ireland, they are not, regardless of the rhetoric going to cut off their nose to spite their face and block trade with Scotland. They cant afford to for one, not just economically but also they need our excess electricity and water to keep the lights and taps on. Why else would a water pipeline be getting built as we speak to pump water south? https://www.scotsman.com/news/environment/ps14bn-plan-to-share-scots-water-with-england-1520284 Why else would Scotland have higher tariffs for electric than anywhere else but a surplus of power. The oil is another point you can make here too. Be in no doubt, they need us. If we were a basket case, Cameron wouldve gladly sent us on our way as would Boris. They dont because its ruse.

 

But as someone else was saying on here, it seems Scotland has floated a bit more right itself and so right leaning probably is true. 

 

I still maintain that Scotland can do better than shackled to whatever disaster England decide to thrust on it, but hey ho, if youre happy with that, good for you. The SNP is a vehicle (a bad one sadly) for getting independence but it wouldnt run Scotland. There would be a general election for Indy Scotland, new parties would form and the SNP broad church would split itself into them.

 

And yes, a Scottish government wouldnt be perfect, no Government is. But for every late ship in Scotland there is a Post Office and HS2 in the UK.

 

Good post. Very good post.

 

Now watch the forelock-tugging colonialists try to dismantle it...well, let them. They won't be able to.

[That thing you do]

11 minutes ago, BlueRiver said:

 

So if you So flippantly dismiss valid responses with arsey names what's your ones for the indy-minded? 

 

"My life is that pish right now I want everyone to suffer in the mid to long term chasing a potential that might never be realised" response? 

 

How much of our excess water is currently piped to England? None. They need it though of course. So badly they haven't used it in the past 300 years. 

The pipeline has to be built, but they are planning it due to the increased droughts caused by Global warming.

 

My life is that pish right now I want everyone to suffer in the mid to long term chasing a potential that might never be realised" response? Nope "OUR lives are pish right now caused by the greed, corruption and waste at Westminster and I have the belief that Scotland and its people can make Scotland better than Westminster on our behalf". 

 

Pick it part all you like but its what it comes down to. Which other countires around the world are joining a union and allowing their partner to spend 60% of their cash for them? None. If it worked, the UK would be replicated in the economic interest of other nations. It isnt, because it doesnt.

[Dawnrazor]

3 minutes ago, That thing you do said:

The pipeline has to be built, but they are planning it due to the increased droughts caused by Global warming.

 

My life is that pish right now I want everyone to suffer in the mid to long term chasing a potential that might never be realised" response? Nope "OUR lives are pish right now caused by the greed, corruption and waste at Westminster and I have the belief that Scotland and its people can make Scotland better than Westminster on our behalf". 

 

Pick it part all you like but its what it comes down to. Which other countires around the world are joining a union and allowing their partner to spend 60% of their cash for them? None. If it worked, the UK would be replicated in the economic interest of other nations. It isnt, because it doesnt.

Where is this information coming from?

There's pipes being built right now to take water from different parts of England to drier parts but I'm not aware of water coming from Scotland. You've only to have watched the news recently to have seen the flooding parts of the South of England have had, there's areas flooded in England every year, I've said often before, England doesn't have a water shortage, it's has a water storage shortage and that's far cheaper to sort by bringing water from England to England, as has and is happening, than bringing it from Scotland. 

[That thing you do]

And one more to add. The "our politicians are just as bad" argument.

 

This is also an argument for independence not against it.

 

In Indy Scotland you have the power to vote out of office any ruling party at the next election. You do not have this power in the UK, you get what England votes for.

In Indy Scotland we can vote on and draft a new constitution that protects peoples rights. You do not have this power in the UK, as there is no apetite for it from English voters

In Indy Scotland, Scotland decides its relationship with Europe. In a UK vote, sheer numbers means England does.

In Indy Scotland, the second legislative house can be elected. The House of Lords never will be in the UK.

 

I dont see our MPs are Sheeite = stay in the Union. I see it as a valid argument against it

[il Duce McTarkin]

1 hour ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

 

 

 

[That thing you do]

6 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

Where is this information coming from?

There's pipes being built right now to take water from different parts of England to drier parts but I'm not aware of water coming from Scotland. You've only to have watched the news recently to have seen the flooding parts of the South of England have had, there's areas flooded in England every year, I've said often before, England doesn't have a water shortage, it's has a water storage shortage and that's far cheaper to sort by bringing water from England to England, as has and is happening, than bringing it from Scotland. 

Its been reported in recent years as a plan to deal with increasing drought conditions in England. Whether it actually happens is debateable but it shows how easily the solution to Englands issues in the thought process is Scottish resources. As far back as the 90s West of Scotland water as it was then admitted to being in talks to build it. Its been on the agenda for a long time.

Edited January 17 by That thing you do