Geoff Kilpatrick Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 The Sun hates a photoshop eh? Remember Rudi "spitting"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMaganator Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 Confirmed the SNP & civil service were telling businesses supporting the union to keep out of the debate http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/11098301/Scotlands-most-senior-civil-servant-intimidated-bosses-over-referendum.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMaganator Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 The Sun hates a photoshop eh? Remember Rudi "spitting"? Yip. Animals Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMaganator Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 NHS whistleblower has given the BBC SNPs plans to cut the NHS budget by ?400m AFTER the referendum. This could be devastating for that mob "Confidential papers passed to the BBC suggest a radical cost-saving plan will be implemented in the Scottish NHS after the referendum." http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-29213416 We'll see what comes of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hasselhoff Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 (edited) Leak by NHS whistleblower today that they plan ?400-450m of cuts after the 19th. NHS only at risk if a no....aye right (Oops just saw post above) Edited September 16, 2014 by Hasselhoff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambo1185 Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 How can Alex Neil say the NHS has been protected from Tory cuts when the health spending is going down up here, and up in England and Wales? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 An amazingly convenient leak! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beats Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 Salmond doesn't want to win this it seems. As for that Sun picture Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToadKiller Dog Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 (edited) Hmm a leak just days before the poll , yip we are a zipped up from behind. . After reading the story it's another headline that doesn't fully match the content seems to be common in modern journalism . Edited September 16, 2014 by ToadKiller Dog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hasselhoff Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 An amazingly convenient leak! If I worked in the NHS and had seen this document and had to listen to the bull about the NHS being safe in an independent Scotland, I would make sure it got out too. A lot of people just assumed no would win the day. Now it looks close enough, pro-union people are voicing their opinions. Better late than never. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hasselhoff Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 Genuine question for the yes voters... Is there anyone in the world right now you would believe or listen to if they came out and warned against independence saying it is a very bad idea? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hughesie27 Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 Of course in the event of a No, these cuts could still be made. But at least in the event of a Yes our total NHS budget could increase and these cuts wouldn't habe to be so severe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
super_vlad Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 How can Alex Neil say the NHS has been protected from Tory cuts when the health spending is going down up here, and up in England and Wales? Because the overall budget for scotland has being cut and we offer our citizens more up here than they receive down south. Also because the cost of the NHS has rised down south due to privatisation of the NHS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hughesie27 Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 (edited) Genuine question for the yes voters... Is there anyone in the world right now you would believe or listen to if they came out and warned against independence saying it is a very bad idea? Any leader of a nation who has recently gained its independence. He or she would need to give me a decent reason too. Edited September 16, 2014 by hughesie27 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djf Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 I think that'll be it for Yes now. Coverage that NHS leak is getting will surely knock a couple of points off for them. Not one for bias this bias that claims but would be very interesting to find out when the BBC got their hands on that info. Playing with fire if it comes out they have held off on that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
super_vlad Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 just ignore this bit tho Despite Scotland's budget being slashed by 7.2% by George Osborne between 2010/11 and 2015/16, our increases in health spending means that the NHS is receiving record high funding, with a budget increase of over ?1bn between 2010/11 and 2015/16." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ossory_Jambo Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 Genuine question for the yes voters... Is there anyone in the world right now you would believe or listen to if they came out and warned against independence saying it is a very bad idea? Susan Boyle, she has a lovely voice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambo1185 Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 (edited) Because the overall budget for scotland has being cut and we offer our citizens more up here than they receive down south. Also because the cost of the NHS has rised down south due to privatisation of the NHS. Well maybe if the SNP made more progressive policy decisions and git rid of the council tax freeze and freebies for people who can easily afford the service there would be no need to divert funding from our health budget. And the reason for health spending increasing down south is not hugely relevant. Fact is it is increasing and Westminster have committed to ongoing increases. That feeds into Barnett. If Holyrood decides to spend that money elsewhere insread of ringfencing or providing a commitment to increased health spending its free to do so but don't blame Westminster. And why wouldn't the Scottish budget be cut? It will be cut further on independence as we need ti find 6bn to balance the books apparently. It would appear that the UK is now recovering quicker and faster than others as well. Edited September 16, 2014 by jambo1185 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambo1185 Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 (edited) Oops double post. Also, wtf is that Sun cover all about. Edited September 16, 2014 by jambo1185 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMaganator Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 If the Yes camp have a rabbit it's time to pull it. The news coverage for the whole of today will be about this - every interview with them will lead with questions about this. Salmond will be Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RosscoC Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 If the Yes camp have a rabbit it's time to pull it. The news coverage for the whole of today will be about this - every interview with them will lead with questions about this. Salmond will be I think it's more the case that this 'news' will only serve to get people like yourself really excited. As demonstrated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Lyon Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 TheMaganator - good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMaganator Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 I think it's more the case that this 'news' will only serve to get people like yourself really excited. As demonstrated. Nah. The converts will ignore but undecideds & soft Yes supporters will be listening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
North Berwick Jambo Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 Amazing timing for a leak. That's me convinced Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deesidejambo Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 Todays the big day though - Milliband. Cameron and the Tories have little or no impact - all Scots Tories will vote No anyway and Yes voters hate Tories anyway so won't be interested in what he has to say. However Milliband is different - the "undecideds" and Yes voters may be on balance more Labour ex-supporters or may even be real Socialists. Its Labour who hold the balance of influence here - those who won't listen to Cameron may listen to Labour. Also Labour have more to lose than the Tories - Scotland leaving will result in rUK being more dominated by Tories and UKIP. If Yes voters who claim to be Socialists were really that way, they should vote No for the better good of everyone on this Island. I wish John Smith was alive today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToadKiller Dog Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 Because of the smear and fear put forward as a campaign from Better together , clear BBC bias ,this coming out 2 days before the poll . I expect most will look at this news and think I smell a rat . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToadKiller Dog Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 I am not sure if the no camp actually understand why there is a movement and momentum towards a yes . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
super_vlad Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 Todays the big day though - Milliband. Cameron and the Tories have little or no impact - all Scots Tories will vote No anyway and Yes voters hate Tories anyway so won't be interested in what he has to say. However Milliband is different - the "undecideds" and Yes voters may be on balance more Labour ex-supporters or may even be real Socialists. Its Labour who hold the balance of influence here - those who won't listen to Cameron may listen to Labour. Also Labour have more to lose than the Tories - Scotland leaving will result in rUK being more dominated by Tories and UKIP. If Yes voters who claim to be Socialists were really that way, they should vote No for the better good of everyone on this Island. I wish John Smith was alive today. Couldn't agree more, he won't have let his party become what it has. If we had more people like him involved in Westminster, i won't be so pessimistic about our future within the Union. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 The hagiography of John Smith still amazes me. The man whose nonsense tax policies in the midst of a recession lost the 1992 election for Labour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToadKiller Dog Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 Another German bank speaks http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/scottish-independence-commerzbank-says-worst-case-economic-scenarios-exaggerated-9733904.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMA MAROON Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 Because of the smear and fear put forward as a campaign from Better together , clear BBC bias ,this coming out 2 days before the poll . I expect most will look at this news and think I smell a rat . It is in the Herald as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 Another German bank speaks http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/scottish-independence-commerzbank-says-worst-case-economic-scenarios-exaggerated-9733904.html Guy makes sense. He's also right to point out how light on detail the Nats are too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deesidejambo Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 The hagiography of John Smith still amazes me. The man whose nonsense tax policies in the midst of a recession lost the 1992 election for Labour. Nobody is perfect, ever. However Smith was a true Socialist, a real caring person who tried always to get a greater good for all. When he spoke, people of all persuasions listened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambo1185 Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 (edited) Presumably David Cameron phoned everyone at the NHS in Scotland asking them to leak damaging information. Or is it all Nick Robinson's fault? I'm struggling to keep up. Effectively all the leak really shows is that the NHS has a big black hole up here regardless of what happens on Thursday. I don't think it's earth shattering, it just makes things a bit uncomfortable for the Yes side, particularly given the SNP could be argued (fairly) to have made the black hole worse than it needed to be as a result of their spending decisions. Edited September 16, 2014 by jambo1185 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor jambo Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 Hmm a leak just days before the poll , yip we are a zipped up from behind. . After reading the story it's another headline that doesn't fully match the content seems to be common in modern journalism . TKD- its true though. Up until last year I was in the NHS - we all lost our offices, they took the nurses printers, the number of computers was reduced so you had to "hot desk" so everyone fell behind with paper work. Frankly so what if the NHS budget in Scotland is increasing- the cost of the NHS is still hiking up faster than that due to the commitments made by the government above the heads of the health boards and senior clinicians. SNP policies are ramping up costs, but they have hamstrung the HB's to prevent efficiencies POpulist moves, but unless they start listening they will actually kill the NHS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMaganator Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 I am not sure if the no camp actually understand why there is a movement and momentum towards a yes . I certainly don't. There's no economic argument for it. There's no social justice argument for it. Any 'let the people of Scotland make their own choices' argument was lost the day a CU was championed by the Yes movement. Trident is going nowhere. So - other than accusations of BBC bias and big nasty Tories I'm not sure what drives the Yes camp. Galloway describes it as 'grievance & grudge'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambo1185 Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 (edited) Has this been done already? http://www.telegraph...referendum.html Both sides making naughty phone calls it would seem. Whatabouttery for the win!! Also yes supporters attending No Thanks rallies to disrupt them (which seems a little pathetic): http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/11098557/Danny-Alexander-heckled-at-stormy-Glasgow-No-to-Scottish-independence-rally.html Edited September 16, 2014 by jambo1185 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
super_vlad Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 People having a go at a joke front page by the Sun but have repeatedly used the utter shameful front pages of the Telegraph & Daily Mail front pages to back up the No vote. [modedit] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToadKiller Dog Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 I put a lot of the softer yes down to the cynical nature of Westminster politics , the negativity the fear stories . The no campaign has made voters move to yes . It has no vision nothing really to say to this real want for change in politics in Scotland and I imagine the rest of the UK . Salmond is certainly light on details but he is offering something that's positive in its ideals . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMaganator Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 http://www.heraldscotland.com/mobile/comment/herald-view/once-in-a-lifetime-opportunity-to-cast-a-future-that-meets-the-aspirations-of-sc.25295912 The Herald says No! I wonder if the Sunday Herald will change it's mind Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambo1185 Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 (edited) Salmond just said that an independent Scotland will "be borrowing at Sterling rates". Thoughts Geoff? He can't guarantee that at all can he, he doesn't dictate borrowing terms? Edited September 16, 2014 by jambo1185 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambo1185 Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 People having a go at a joke front page by the Sun but have repeatedly used the utter shameful front pages of the Telegraph & Daily Mail front pages to back up the No vote. [modedit] The Telegraph front page the other day was a disgrace. Did anyone on here defend it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriel Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 http://www.heraldsco...-of-sc.25295912 The Herald says No! I wonder if the Sunday Herald will change it's mind That headline doesn't really make much sense, to me, as it reads as if the writer is not entirely convinced by what 'powers' are being offered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor jambo Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 I put a lot of the softer yes down to the cynical nature of Westminster politics , the negativity the fear stories . The no campaign has made voters move to yes . It has no vision nothing really to say to this real want for change in politics in Scotland and I imagine the rest of the UK . Salmond is certainly light on details but he is offering something that's positive in its ideals . But that's all it is - sweet dreams What did you expect from "yes" the truth? Budget deficits, cuts, austerity? The impossibility of the pensions? The long term crisis of declining oil? The inviable benefits bill? THe ludicrous promises made about the NHS? That is the truth of YES voting- that is what you are getting- that is why there are no facts from the YES campaign Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 People having a go at a joke front page by the Sun but have repeatedly used the utter shameful front pages of the Telegraph & Daily Mail front pages to back up the No vote. [modedit] Um, who has done this precisely? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 BTW, this NHS "row" is yet another example of why a currency union won't work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deesidejambo Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 I put a lot of the softer yes down to the cynical nature of Westminster politics , the negativity the fear stories . The no campaign has made voters move to yes . It has no vision nothing really to say to this real want for change in politics in Scotland and I imagine the rest of the UK . Salmond is certainly light on details but he is offering something that's positive in its ideals . Salmond again quoting "scaremongering" today. He has played that silly card too many times now. He should explain, very clearly, what he will do if the EU reapplication is rejected, as it is likely to be, based on numerous statments already made by other Gov't Leadersand EU Commissioners. To glibly say "that won't happen" is simply nonsense. He needs to say what he will do if it does happen. He won't,simply because he hasn't a scooby what he would do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter Bishop Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 A very decent insight to the Yes campaign from Ewan Morrison... EWAN MORRISON: WHY I JOINED YES AND WHY I CHANGED TO NO - http://wakeupscotland.wordpress.com/2014/09/15/ewan-morrison-yes-why-i-joined-yes-and-why-i-changed-to-no/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Lyon Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 Deeside jambo - Salmond should explain the details of how his utopian Scotland will be achieved. We all have ideals but it is unlikely that we will achieve them all - the Salmond National Party seem to think all their's will be achieved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriel Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 (edited) I note that some of the London papers are already running stories today about who is to blame for the referendum getting to this stage. Civil servants are letting it be known that they had long cautioned the government on the impetus of the 'Yes' campaign, with George Osbourne being named as especially keen on running a campaign of fear. It's good to see that civil servants across the land are upholding the values of Sir Humphrey. Edited September 16, 2014 by Gabriel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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