Scottish independence and devolution superthread

[Gundermann]

On 16/04/2024 at 16:09, Australis said:

It's an SNP thing.

 

Er... supporting pupils with additional needs is a good thing, no? Or am I missing something?

 

Have worked with traumatised and kids from deprived areas for years and iniatives such as PEF are very welcome. Am not uncriticial of SNP record on education but this is a good thing FFS.

[The Mighty Thor]

1 minute ago, Gundermann said:

 

Er... supporting pupils with additional needs is a good thing, no? Or am I missing something?

 

Have worked with traumatised and kids from deprived areas for years and iniatives such as PEF are very welcome. Am not uncriticial of SNP record on education but this is a good thing FFS.

The same posters are on bleating about the drugs deaths and then when people who need early intervention get it guess what? 

 

SCREEEEEECH

 

lunatics. 

[Gundermann]

8 hours ago, jack D and coke said:

 

It’s just like austerity never happened tho eh. The ACTUAL govt who control the finances cutback on everything but the SG are still to magic money out of thin air🤷🏽‍♂️I mean they couldn’t ask the half dozen posters on here for another shilling I mean they almost prop Scotland up themselves ffs. 
Labour in wales blame WM.
Labour here blame the SNP. 
How bizarre. 

 

 

People who are against independence whinging about not having the powers of independence.

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

4 minutes ago, Gundermann said:

 

Er... supporting pupils with additional needs is a good thing, no? Or am I missing something?

 

Have worked with traumatised and kids from deprived areas for years and iniatives such as PEF are very welcome. Am not uncriticial of SNP record on education but this is a good thing FFS.

what the reason for sky rocketing stats of kids with Additional support for learning since you claim to know lots ?

[jack D and coke]

32 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

The same posters are on bleating about the drugs deaths and then when people who need early intervention get it guess what? 

 

SCREEEEEECH

 

lunatics. 

Save the junkies! Gie the bairns **** all!

 

Its hard to keep up. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

Dearie me , the screeching !!! 

[JudyJudyJudy]

" Bairns not bombs"....!

[jack D and coke]

12 minutes ago, Jim_Duncan said:

Feed the dead junkies to the bairns. 

Ever thought about politics? Couple of smashing suggestions today…

[The Mighty Thor]

14 minutes ago, Jim_Duncan said:

Feed the dead junkies to the bairns. 

Not enough meat on their emaciated bodies. Good for soup stock though 

Edited April 17 by The Mighty Thor

[Gundermann]

50 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

The same posters are on bleating about the drugs deaths and then when people who need early intervention get it guess what? 

 

SCREEEEEECH

 

lunatics. 

 

Or the same who say 'minimum pricing won't solve anything on it's own'....

 

But whinge about any other initiative. Nanny state... Spying on folk... Banning stuff... 

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

17 minutes ago, Gundermann said:

 

Or the same who say 'minimum pricing won't solve anything on it's own'....

 

But whinge about any other initiative. Nanny state... Spying on folk... Banning stuff... 

 

so why has the need for addtional support for learning sky rocketed ?  You never answered my perfectly civil non screeching question ? 

[frankblack]

17 minutes ago, Gundermann said:

 

Or the same who say 'minimum pricing won't solve anything on it's own'....

 

But whinge about any other initiative. Nanny state... Spying on folk... Banning stuff... 

 

 

Minimum pricing is akin to using a sledgehammer to crack a nut.  Punish everyone in the mistaken belief that problem drinkers will stop.

 

Problem drinkers won't stop using this approach - they will sacrifice something else to afford the drink e.g. food, heating.  This might get them back in hospital more frequently.

 

Was it not shown that minimum pricing has had no impact on problem drinking cases?

[i wish jj was my dad]

1 hour ago, Ulysses said:

 

We're finally trying to catch up with Scotland and implement free school lunches in our primary schools.

What better investment in the future can any country try make than investing in the future of our young people?  Making sure they all have a decent nutritious meal at least once a day to give them the energy they need to grow and learn is about the greatest investment we can make in society. 

Even worse than complaining about the investment in additional support for those kids who need it. 

That's what helps us move onwards and upwards alright. 

[The Mighty Thor]

3 minutes ago, frankblack said:

Was it not shown that minimum pricing has had no impact on problem drinking cases?

You're right it wasn't shown.

 

Public health Scotland research showed a reduction in deaths and hospitalisations.

 

[Gundermann]

30 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

Minimum pricing is akin to using a sledgehammer to crack a nut.  Punish everyone in the mistaken belief that problem drinkers will stop.

 

Problem drinkers won't stop using this approach - they will sacrifice something else to afford the drink e.g. food, heating.  This might get them back in hospital more frequently.

 

Was it not shown that minimum pricing has had no impact on problem drinking cases?

 

 

That's why other measures, as well as this, are important. One single policy isn't gonna change everyone's habits.

[jack D and coke]

47 minutes ago, Jim_Duncan said:

Could I count on your vote?

Keep the common sense stuff coming and you can rely on it. 

[frankblack]

52 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

You're right it wasn't shown.

 

Public health Scotland research showed a reduction in deaths and hospitalisations.

 

 

Not according to this it didn't:

https://news.sky.com/story/minimum-alcohol-unit-price-to-increase-by-30-in-scotland-after-rise-in-related-deaths-last-year-13066691

 

[frankblack]

28 minutes ago, Gundermann said:

 

 

That's why other measures, as well as this, are important. One single policy isn't gonna change everyone's habits.

 

Its autocratic government by a party that get a block vote.  See my link in the above post - this policy has no justification.  

 

Same goes with the green issues and hate crime bill.  The only thing stopping these clowns introducing a bill to devalue peoples homes who have gas boilers is a general election.  Blackmail politics.

 

God knows how much worse an independent Scotland would be with these jokers in charge.

[Ulysses]

2 hours ago, Gundermann said:

 

Er... supporting pupils with additional needs is a good thing, no? Or am I missing something?

 

 

It is, but there seems to be an unexpectedly large number of them.

 

In Ireland it is estimated that if you combine intellectual disability,  physical disability, and difficulty with memory and retention together you might get to somewhere between 7 and 9 percent of the population, with the school age population in line with those figures.  Is Scotland all that different?

[JudyJudyJudy]

Just now, Ulysses said:

 

It is, but there seems to be an unexpectedly large number of them.

 

In Ireland it is estimated that if you combine intellectual disability,  physical disability, and difficulty with memory and retention together you might get to somewhere between 7 and 9 percent of the population, with the school age population in line with those figures.  Is Scotland all that different?

👍

[Gundermann]

19 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

Its autocratic government by a party that get a block vote.  See my link in the above post - this policy has no justification.  

 

Same goes with the green issues and hate crime bill.  The only thing stopping these clowns introducing a bill to devalue peoples homes who have gas boilers is a general election.  Blackmail politics.

 

God knows how much worse an independent Scotland would be with these jokers in charge.

 

What a pile o pish.

 

And that last sentence FFS. These jokers wouldn't be in charge. It would be a new political landscape. SNP will probably split and Labour won't be tied to a London party that's more interested in chasing Tory votes than social justice.

[Ulysses]

10 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

It is, but there seems to be an unexpectedly large number of them.

 

In Ireland it is estimated that if you combine intellectual disability,  physical disability, and difficulty with memory and retention together you might get to somewhere between 7 and 9 percent of the population, with the school age population in line with those figures.  Is Scotland all that different?

 

Ah, I've answered my own question. It would seem that there isn't a direct connection between the terms "ASN" and "disabled".

 

In 2020, at first glance, 32% of children in Scottish schools had additional support needs.  Some of that number are defined in specific categories based on the type of supports provided.  However the biggest number by far were in a category of additional needs called "Other", which is defined as

 

"additional support needs which have been identified and are being supported but which do 
not fall within the subcategories of need collected in the pupil census. These may be needs which are of short-term duration, or which do not need significant differentiation of 
learning and teaching to overcome barriers to learning."

 

In effect, this reads to me as needs that don't really involve any notable degree of support.

 

If you exclude those, the percentage of children in schools with additional support needs is about 11%, or some 77,000 children.  

 

Does anyone know what percentage of the education budget in Scotland is spent on children with additional support needs?  In Ireland it is now in excess of 25%.

[Gundermann]

23 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

It is, but there seems to be an unexpectedly large number of them.

 

In Ireland it is estimated that if you combine intellectual disability,  physical disability, and difficulty with memory and retention together you might get to somewhere between 7 and 9 percent of the population, with the school age population in line with those figures.  Is Scotland all that different?

 

In one place where I worked, more than 60% were on staged intervention - as it suggests support for a variety of needs from behavoural to emotional to autistic spectrum or disabilites. Middle-class areas will have a fraction of this. There will be parts of England that have the same numbers we do but without the support.

 

I don't know about Ireland but they may be behind us in recognising these issues. Certainly if you listen to the likes of Blindboy who was a teenager in the 90s, attitudes toward autistic pupils at least were horrific. Fortunately, it seems as if the RCC doesn't have the power it did in Ireland's schools.

Edited April 17 by Gundermann

[manaliveits105]

1 hour ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

so why has the need for addtional support for learning sky rocketed ?  You never answered my perfectly civil non screeching question ? 

Still hasn't just the usual smurf bullshit 

[JudyJudyJudy]

2 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said:

Still hasn't just the usual smurf bullshit 

👍

[Ulysses]

32 minutes ago, Gundermann said:

 

In one place where I worked, more than 60% were on staged intervention - as it suggests support for a variety of needs from behavoural to emotional to autistic spectrum or disabilites. Middle-class areas will have a fraction of this. There will be parts of England that have the same numbers we do but without the support.

 

I don't know about Ireland but they may be behind us in recognising these issues. Certainly if you listen to the likes of Blindboy who was a teenager in the 90s, attitudes toward autistic pupils at least were horrific. Fortunately, it seems as if the RCC doesn't have the power it did in Ireland's schools.

 

 

I refer you to this.

 

33 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

Does anyone know what percentage of the education budget in Scotland is spent on children with additional support needs?  In Ireland it is now in excess of 25%.

 

[frankblack]

56 minutes ago, Gundermann said:

 

What a pile o pish.

 

And that last sentence FFS. These jokers wouldn't be in charge. It would be a new political landscape. SNP will probably split and Labour won't be tied to a London party that's more interested in chasing Tory votes than social justice.

 

It would be a locked down autocratic state modelled on Putin's Russia, designed to keep the SNP in power indefinitely .  You only have to look at the laws they have passed to see where they are heading.

[Cranston]

6 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

It would be a locked down autocratic state modelled on Putin's Russia, designed to keep the SNP in power indefinitely .  You only have to look at the laws they have passed to see where they are heading.

Puts me off independence. The snp greens are diabolical, and the only remedy we are offered up from the snp greens supporters are that - The snp greens will probably split apart and some other walter mitty party dreamed up like a sequence from Brigadoon will emerge.

 

If the Snp had been a success, independence would be a shoo in. Instead we've had an insight into the brutal reality of a dictatorship that would follow.

 

Sad.

[Ulysses]

2 hours ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

so why has the need for addtional support for learning sky rocketed ? 

 

Between 2013 and 2023, the number of children in Scottish schools with additional support needs increased by 127,415 (from 132K-ish to 259K-ish).

 

That category of "Other" that I mentioned earlier increased by 118,695.  You could be forgiven for guessing that this means that the "categorised" needs figure accounted for the rest of the increase (8.720), but because some kids fit into more than one ASN category that might not be true.  In 2023 the statistics included a separate figure for all ASN excluding the "Other" group.  It was 83,358, which is 11.8% of the school population.  The stats for 2013 don't include such a figure.  The first year the stats included that figure was in 2016, and in that year it was 61,482, which was 9% of the school population.  In short, it means that the number of children with ASN is increasing, but when you exclude that "Other" group as I described it earlier the numbers aren't increasing so fast.

 

It is also interesting to note that the numbers have also increased significantly in England since 2016.  They use different terminology and classifications, but their figures show consistent increases.

 

 

[Ulysses]

15 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

It would be a locked down autocratic state modelled on Putin's Russia...

 

Oh for crying out loud, Frank.   

 

 

2 minutes ago, Cranston said:

Puts me off independence.

 

Of course it does.   

[jack D and coke]

14 minutes ago, Cranston said:

Puts me off independence. The snp greens are diabolical, and the only remedy we are offered up from the snp greens supporters are that - The snp greens will probably split apart and some other walter mitty party dreamed up like a sequence from Brigadoon will emerge.

 

If the Snp had been a success, independence would be a shoo in. Instead we've had an insight into the brutal reality of a dictatorship that would follow.

 

Sad.

Drivel. 
Utter drivel. 
 

[Cranston]

7 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

Oh for crying out loud, Frank.   

 

 

 

Of course it does.   

It gets so tedious reading joyless, soulless posts from you and others on here. Its beyond a joke now. Instead of banning poor folk from alcohol, we should ban dour authoritarians. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

10 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

Between 2013 and 2023, the number of children in Scottish schools with additional support needs increased by 127,415 (from 132K-ish to 259K-ish).

 

That category of "Other" that I mentioned earlier increased by 118,695.  You could be forgiven for guessing that this means that the "categorised" needs figure accounted for the rest of the increase (8.720), but because some kids fit into more than one ASN category that might not be true.  In 2023 the statistics included a separate figure for all ASN excluding the "Other" group.  It was 83,358, which is 11.8% of the school population.  The stats for 2013 don't include such a figure.  The first year the stats included that figure was in 2016, and in that year it was 61,482, which was 9% of the school population.  In short, it means that the number of children with ASN is increasing, but when you exclude that "Other" group as I described it earlier the numbers aren't increasing so fast.

 

It is also interesting to note that the numbers have also increased significantly in England since 2016.  They use different terminology and classifications, but their figures show consistent increases.

 

 

Thanks for that information . 

[Cranston]

1 minute ago, jack D and coke said:

Drivel. 
Utter drivel. 
 

Wonderful insightful post from you. Stop trolling posters who make good points with your insults.

[Ulysses]

10 minutes ago, Cranston said:

It gets so tedious reading joyless, soulless posts from you and others on here. Its beyond a joke now. Instead of banning poor folk from alcohol, we should ban dour authoritarians. 

 

I miss doddsy. 

[jack D and coke]

6 minutes ago, Cranston said:

Wonderful insightful post from you. Stop trolling posters who make good points with your insults.

Mate you posted a pile of absolute nonsense. 
I didnt insult you personally but that was drivel of the highest order. 
IMO  

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

38 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

It would be a locked down autocratic state modelled on Putin's Russia, designed to keep the SNP in power indefinitely .  You only have to look at the laws they have passed to see where they are heading.

You can beat your bottom dollar that that bunch in holy rood would want to be right at the heart of an Indy Scotland . It would be a dream come true for them . Free from the “ Shackles “ of English rule to do whatever they wanted without any fear of consequence or accountability . 

[Cranston]

6 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Mate you posted a pile of absolute nonsense. 
I didnt insult you personally but that was drivel of the highest order. 
IMO  

 

Just drivel. Pure drivel. Drivel Drivel Drivel, If it doesn't suit your idealism, everything is just drivel.

 

Did I get that right? Just pure Drivel right. 

 

Snp Greens are diabolical authoritarians that hate the poor.

 

Bet you're already thinking of typing 'Drivel'.

[jack D and coke]

2 minutes ago, Cranston said:

Just drivel. Pure drivel. Drivel Drivel Drivel, If it doesn't suit your idealism, everything is just drivel.

 

Did I get that right? Just pure Drivel right. 

 

Snp Greens are diabolical authoritarians that hate the poor.

 

Bet you're already thinking of typing 'Drivel'.

 

You said it boss. 

[Cranston]

6 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

 

You said it boss. 

If that's the best argument you put up for the Snp Greens coalition of failure, and pretence that the Snp Greens hatred against the poorest in society will disband in the event of independence, please think again, as its obviously not working. We need people who are serious regarding making ordinary lives in Scotland better and fairer, not the bams that are currently in charge at Holyrood.

[Ked]

14 minutes ago, Cranston said:

Just drivel. Pure drivel. Drivel Drivel Drivel, If it doesn't suit your idealism, everything is just drivel.

 

Did I get that right? Just pure Drivel right. 

 

Snp Greens are diabolical authoritarians that hate the poor.

 

Bet you're already thinking of typing 'Drivel'.

It's a bit hard to think anythingbelse saying as you posted it 20 odd times

[Cranston]

Just now, Ked said:

It's a bit hard to think anythingbelse saying as you posted it 20 odd times

Hard of thinking?

[Ked]

1 minute ago, Cranston said:

If that's the best argument you put up for the Snp Greens coalition of failure, and pretence that the Snp Greens hatred against the poorest in society will disband in the event of independence, please think again, as its obviously not working. We need people who are serious regarding making ordinary lives in Scotland better and fairer, not the bams that are currently in charge at Holyrood.

Jack is disaffected with the SNP and Greens.

 

Can you explain how you were pro independence but now are not?

You can be critical of a party but how does that translate.

I don't get the argument the snp are shite so that equates to independence being shite.

Well it might actually because it seems most governments are shite.

But we'd be less shite that's for sure.

😄😄

 

Yeeeeeessss.

Sorry bit football scarf politics there.

😄

[Ked]

3 minutes ago, Cranston said:

Hard of thinking?

No.

Not the greatest mind gawn about but I'm fond of it.

🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

[Cranston]

1 minute ago, Ked said:

Jack is disaffected with the SNP and Greens.

 

Can you explain how you were pro independence but now are not?

You can be critical of a party but how does that translate.

I don't get the argument the snp are shite so that equates to independence being shite.

Well it might actually because it seems most governments are shite.

But we'd be less shite that's for sure.

😄😄

 

Yeeeeeessss.

Sorry bit football scarf politics there.

😄

The Snp Greens coalition has turned me off independence. I genuinely thought devolution would make a difference, show a successful Scotland, instead we've been hijacked by hard left wokism, and authoritarianism. They literally hate car drivers, the poor, common sense etc. Its Communist elitism.

[Ked]

11 hours ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

The bikes thing was an SNP greens policy . 
 

 

That's why greens got my vote to do stuff like this.

 

I thought you were passionate about the environment?

Polar bear killer now eh?

 

😂

 

Bet Judy doesn't recycle. 

[Cranston]

1 minute ago, Ked said:

That's why greens got my vote to do stuff like this.

 

I thought you were passionate about the environment?

Polar bear killer now eh?

 

😂

 

Bet Judy doesn't recycle. 

And you had the cheek to ask me why independence is a turn off. You have to be at the wind up, or on a cushy underworked overpaid public salary role?

[Ked]

1 minute ago, Cranston said:

The Snp Greens coalition has turned me off independence. I genuinely thought devolution would make a difference, show a successful Scotland, instead we've been hijacked by hard left wokism, and authoritarianism. They literally hate car drivers, the poor, common sense etc. Its Communist elitism.

You realise you seem as extreme as you perceive them to be.

And I'm fairly right wing.

 

[Cranston]

Just now, Ked said:

You realise you seem as extreme as you perceive them to be.

And I'm fairly right wing.

 

You're at it. If you're right wing, I'm Neil Kinnock. You're either Snp Greens or work in a cushy underworked overpaid public service.

[Ked]

8 minutes ago, Cranston said:

And you had the cheek to ask me why independence is a turn off. You have to be at the wind up, or on a cushy underworked overpaid public salary role?

Never worked for the government in my life.

I don't think the greens have been environmental enough.

I do commend the SNP for stopping Fracking.

There were actually people advocating Fracking for Scotland.

They like all parties in power for too long fall apart.

I don't believe you ever wanted independence.