Vegans

[Eldar Hadzimehmedovic]

Even the word 'raised' suggests nurturing. Manufactured would probably be more accurate. 50 billion. Wow.

[Money4NothingDrinks4Free]

6 minutes ago, Eldar Hadzimehmedovic said:

Even the word 'raised' suggests nurturing. Manufactured would probably be more accurate. 50 billion. Wow.

 

50 billion chickens are killed a year. 

 

Of those 50 billion, 13% are 'wasted' e.g. go out of date, quality isn't good enough.

 

Save the chicken, save your soul!

 

Convert to veganism to secure your passage to the holy land!

 

 

[Eric Shin]

28 minutes ago, Money4NothingDrinks4Free said:

 

In that scenario, or any similar, it is of course nature. If a lion kills it generally has a purpose, to feed its cubs or to protect them.

 

However slaughtering thousands of chickens, pigs, cows etc for their meat to be wasted cannot be supported by this argument. 

 

 

TBF  these animals are bread to be eaten       

[Eldar Hadzimehmedovic]

Just now, Money4NothingDrinks4Free said:

 

50 billion chickens are killed a year. 

 

Of those 50 billion, 13% are 'wasted' e.g. go out of date, quality isn't good enough.

 

Save the chicken, save your soul!

 

Convert to veganism to secure your passage to the holy land!

 

 

 

It's mental when you actually think about it. Pigs. How many times have I eaten bacon, sausage, pork, ham? How many times have I seen someone eat those things or seen them on menus or in supermarkets? And yet, I can probably count on one hand how many pigs I've seen in my entire life. Where the hell are they all?

[Money4NothingDrinks4Free]

1 minute ago, Eldar Hadzimehmedovic said:

 

It's mental when you actually think about it. Pigs. How many times have I eaten bacon, sausage, pork, ham? How many times have I seen someone eat those things or seen them on menus or in supermarkets? And yet, I can probably count on one hand how many pigs I've seen in my entire life. Where the hell are they all?

 

Flowing through the worlds sewerage systems 

[Haken]

30 minutes ago, Money4NothingDrinks4Free said:

 

In that scenario, or any similar, it is of course nature. If a lion kills it generally has a purpose, to feed its cubs or to protect them.

 

However slaughtering thousands of chickens, pigs, cows etc for their meat to be wasted cannot be supported by this argument. 

 

 

25 minutes ago, jambo_ said:

what a great thread.

 

 

yo hibby lions eating zebra is natural cause lions are 'real' carnivores .... humans are not 'real' carnivores the human body is designed to predominately consume plant based foods.

 

just my 2p worth

Predators kill in order to survive.  What's more, they tend to do it in an energy-efficient manner by targeting the weak and the slow.  Humans are predators.  It's probably easier for us to farm our prey rather than to have god knows how many people roaming the countryside trying to trap something wild. 

 

When I did biology at school, I'm pretty sure humans were classed as omnivores ie a diet of both meat and vegetable matter, hence a mouthful of teeth that comprises grinding molars and tearing canines and incisors, added to a digestive system capable of breaking down both meat and plant.

[Governor Tarkin]

37 minutes ago, i8hibsh said:

 

 

I know an English guy who lives in South America who knows ****ing absolutely everything.  

 

 

 

I wonder how many folk reading this were thinking the same thing?

[SE16 3LN]

1 hour ago, i8hibsh said:

 

 

The entire history of the human race will contradict your statement.

Not sure, meat used to be occasional food, now many eat it several times a day. It's not clear whether red and processed meat causes cancer, or whether its part of the process of producing it, but it does cause cancer. So, in conclusion, the entire history of the human race doesn't contradict the statement. After all if we were truly carnivorous then eve would have offered Adam roast beef

[i8hibsh]

2 minutes ago, SE16 3LN said:

Not sure, meat used to be occasional food, now many eat it several times a day. It's not clear whether red and processed meat causes cancer, or whether its part of the process of producing it, but it does cause cancer. So, in conclusion, the entire history of the human race doesn't contradict the statement. After all if we were truly carnivorous then eve would have offered Adam roast beef

 

Carnivours eat apples too though.

 

Cancer is as old as the human race.  Think there is so much myth associated with cancer like genetics, smoking etc.  Yes smoking is proven to cause it but a non-smoker is as likely to get cancer than a smoker – just a different kind.  People just get cancer unfortunately, the fact your parents, grandparents had it is just co-incidence.

[Marvin]

bacon is the cure for vegetarianism

 

 

 

 

[Cade]

Animals bred for slaughter generally have a far higher quality of life than their wild counterparts.

Wild animals don't get veterinary care, food, drink and shelter on demand and protection from predators. A wild animal will live a hard life then either die of starvation during a drought or be eaten alive by a predator.

Farmed animals live a life of luxury and are humanely dispatched without pain.

Farmed animals have been altered so much be breeding that even if they were all released into the wild, they'd all die in less than a year. They cannot survive without us.

 

There is certainly a case for reducing meat consumption due to the fact that 2/3 of crops grown globally are for animal feed and that farmed animals emit millions of tonnes of methane, but those are environmental arguments and not ethical ones.

Intensively farmed meat tastes like pish too, and these days I'd rather eat meat less often but still spend the same money on a smaller amount of better quality stuff from proper producers. 

 

 

 

*huge caveats on this due to piss poor standards and abused of existing standards

[JimKongUno]

Each to there own , its a personal choice but these vegan arse holes that try and guilt trip other people can **** off

 

Humans have been top of the food chain for 200'000+ years , being able to cook up a well seasoned steak in under 3 minutes is what seperates us from the animals .

[Maple Leaf]

9 hours ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

Not sure there are anywhere near that many of what we in the west would describe as vegan ml.

 

Yes. I think the percentage of vegans in the western world is around 5%, but it's growing.  Grocery stores in Canada are changing their product lines to cope with the increased demand.

 

The "hundreds of millions" I referred to are mostly in Asia.

[jack D and coke]

7 hours ago, neilnunb said:

I'm not vegan. Been vegetarian for 30 years though and in my experience meat eaters are ****ing obsessed with what veggies/vegans eat whilst most of us couldnt give a toss what others eat. 

 

Veganism is obviously very faddy just now and it is so much easier than when I started. My biggest vices are ice cream and milkshakes but I actually prefer the vegan options now.

 

Anyway, I certainly ain't the preachy type but since i8 is being such an arsehole...

 

 

 

Enjoy!

 

 

Watched that a few years ago. 

Disturbing. 

[Maple Leaf]

8 hours ago, i8hibsh said:

 

I am a big animal lover. I don't need to paint my hair blue, hate Donald Trump, eat tofu, drink soy and not shower for a month to prove it. A hen will lay an egg and a cow will produce milk regardless of human intervention. It is nature. Farming in civilised countries really care and look after their animals. Most decent people in civilised, non barbaric medeival countries will only buy free range etc and ensure the product was sourced and farmed in a humane way.  The food chain is not going to change regardless of our personal beliefs.

 

Hens in the wild lay one egg per month.  The cow produces its milk for the use of its calf, not humans.  These animals are exploited and manipulated for human benefit.

 

With regard to the second highlighted part, the farming industry is enormously cruel to the animals.  There have been many books and TV documentaries that prove it.

[i8hibsh]

16 minutes ago, Maple Leaf said:

 

Hens in the wild lay one egg per month.  The cow produces its milk for the use of its calf, not humans.  These animals are exploited and manipulated for human benefit.

 

With regard to the second highlighted part, the farming industry is enormously cruel to the animals.  There have been many books and TV documentaries that prove it.

 

And many are not. I make sure I use them. 

[Dawnrazor]

19 minutes ago, Maple Leaf said:

 

Hens in the wild lay one egg per month.  

Nope, a hen, any hen lays an egg a day until she's layed enough for a clutch then she'll sit on them for 22/28 days depending on breed and size until they hatch and fledge, then, weather/food permitting she may have a second brood. Why would a hen lay an egg a month? 

[Bindy Badgy]

1 hour ago, SE16 3LN said:

Not sure, meat used to be occasional food, now many eat it several times a day. It's not clear whether red and processed meat causes cancer, or whether its part of the process of producing it, but it does cause cancer. So, in conclusion, the entire history of the human race doesn't contradict the statement. After all if we were truly carnivorous then eve would have offered Adam roast beef

 

Cancer is a hard one to call as you're pretty much guaranteed to get it over an infinite time scale. That said, eating highly processed food is thought to increase the chances of getting certain types of cancer:

 

https://www.bmj.com/content/360/bmj.k322

 

Quote

 In this large prospective study, a 10% increase in the proportion of ultra-processed foods in the diet was associated with a significant increase of greater than 10% in risks of overall and breast cancer. Further studies are needed to better understand the relative effect of the various dimensions of processing (nutritional composition, food additives, contact materials, and neoformed contaminants) in these associations.

 

[i8hibsh]

8 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

Nope, a hen, any hen lays an egg a day until she's layed enough for a clutch then she'll sit on them for 22/28 days depending on breed and size until they hatch and fledge, then, weather/food permitting she may have a second brood. Why would a hen lay an egg a month? 

 

Personally I think hen's are sexist.  Why is it the female does all the work?  Think there should be protests - at least it would give vegans something to do with their day.

 

 

Just kidding before the trigger button is activated.

[i8hibsh]

And cancer was around long long long before smoking, processed foods, mobile phones, insert today's cause here_______________________________

[Boris]

3 hours ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

 

 

I think Boris was being naughty.

 

 

Genuinely, I wasn't.

 

 

[Bindy Badgy]

4 hours ago, i8hibsh said:

 

I am intrigued however. How is the announcement by admin above relevant to me on this thread? Am I hunting in packs? Am I personally abusing another poster? I get personal abuse on here (look no further than Governor Tarkin's post above) but I never give it. Feel free to go through my 25k posts.

 

The bit about trolling.

 

Your posts in this thread have consisted of calling vegans smelly, stating that vegans constantly bang on about being smelly and using facepalm images to describe people not eating eggs due to animal welfare issues. The fact that you haven't targeted a specific poster is largely irrelevant. These posts are guaranteed to wind people up and add nothing to the thread.

 

8 minutes ago, i8hibsh said:

And cancer was around long long long before smoking, processed foods, mobile phones, insert today's cause here_______________________________

 

No one is claiming it wasn't. People have stated that eating processed meat increases the probability of getting certain types of cancer. This is supported by the scientific literature.

[i8hibsh]

3 minutes ago, Stokesy said:

 

The bit about trolling.

 

Your posts in this thread have consisted of calling vegans smelly, stating that vegans constantly bang on about being smelly and using facepalm images to describe people not eating eggs due to animal welfare issues. The fact that you haven't targeted a specific poster is largely irrelevant. These posts are guaranteed to wind people up and add nothing to the thread.

 

 

No one is claiming it wasn't. People have stated that eating processed meat increases the probability of getting certain types of cancer. This is supported by the scientific literature.

 

 

It really isn't troilling. I don't say it to antagonise.  I say it because I believe it.

[Seymour M Hersh]

1 hour ago, Maple Leaf said:

 

Yes. I think the percentage of vegans in the western world is around 5%, but it's growing.  Grocery stores in Canada are changing their product lines to cope with the increased demand.

 

The "hundreds of millions" I referred to are mostly in Asia.

 

Aren't they more vegetarian/very occasional meat or fish eaters though as opposed to vegan. And that's more due to extenuating circumstances. Sorry but I just think you are wrong about the "hundreds of millions" claim.

[neilnunb]

9 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

Aren't they more vegetarian/very occasional meat or fish eaters though as opposed to vegan. And that's more due to extenuating circumstances. Sorry but I just think you are wrong about the "hundreds of millions" claim.

 

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegetarianism_by_country

[Seymour M Hersh]

2 minutes ago, neilnunb said:

 

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegetarianism_by_country

 

So hundreds of millions was an over estimation by quite a way.

[neilnunb]

1 hour ago, Dawnrazor said:

Nope, a hen, any hen lays an egg a day until she's layed enough for a clutch then she'll sit on them for 22/28 days depending on breed and size until they hatch and fledge, then, weather/food permitting she may have a second brood. Why would a hen lay an egg a month? 

 

A wild hen only produces one or two clutches a year of 4-6 eggs because they are in a relaxed environment and have no reason to produce hundreds of eggs.

 

Domesticated ones start producing a new egg as soon as one has been laid though.

 

I eat eggs but even the term 'free range' is a bit misleading. 

 

Then there's the issue of most male chicks being killed as they are worthless to the industry...just so i8 knows why the hens are so sexist.

[Maple Leaf]

9 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

So hundreds of millions was an over estimation by quite a way.

 

From that quoted source.  The 1.45 billion are people who avoid meat, eggs, and dairy.  They're not described as vegan because strict vegans will also avoid honey and wool. 

 

A study from 2010^[2] estimated that there are 1,45 billion vegetarians.

 

 

[i8hibsh]

It is the ones with no conviction I have no time for.  Dated  a vegan a while back who had a yoghurt (non vegan) once for breakfast.  I also know of veggies who have Pepparoni on pizza.

 

 

Edited July 31, 2018 by i8hibsh

[Maple Leaf]

1 minute ago, i8hibsh said:

It is the ones with no conviction I have no time for.  Dated  a vegan a while back who had a yoghurt (non vegan) once for breakfast.  I also know of veggies who have Pepparoni on pizza.

 

 

 

Anyone who eats dairy, or eats pepperoni, is not a vegetarian.  They're deceiving themselves, if nothing else.

[Seymour M Hersh]

1 minute ago, Maple Leaf said:

 

From that quoted source.  The 1.45 billion are people who avoid meat, eggs, and dairy.  They're not described as vegan because strict vegans will also avoid honey and wool. 

 

A study from 2010^[2] estimated that there are 1,45 billion vegetarians.

 

 

 

I realise there are an awful lot of veggies ML it was the vegan assertion that I don't believe. You said mainly Asia but they'll eat fish so surely that rules them out as vegans (by the western description).

[Dawnrazor]

1 minute ago, neilnunb said:

 

A wild hen only produces one or two clutches a year of 4-6 eggs because they are in a relaxed environment and have no reason to produce hundreds of eggs.

 

 

 

That's what I said, food quality and availability has much to do with clutch sizes, wild Hens are the same as other wild birds, they don't live in a "relaxed environment" the live with the threat of predation every minute of every day and night. 

[Maple Leaf]

5 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

I realise there are an awful lot of veggies ML it was the vegan assertion that I don't believe. You said mainly Asia but they'll eat fish so surely that rules them out as vegans (by the western description).

 

In the simplest of terms, there are three types of people:  omnivores (like me), vegetarians, and vegans. The poll acknowledged that it didn't focus on vegans.

 

You're right, in so far as this is a thread about Vegans, that I cannot prove that the 1.45 billion people who are described as vegetarians are actually vegan.  But if we assume that say 20% of them are (pick a number), then that means that 350 million are vegans.  But I can't prove it.

 

 

[Seymour M Hersh]

3 minutes ago, Maple Leaf said:

 

In the simplest of terms, there are three types of people:  omnivores (like me), vegetarians, and vegans. The poll acknowledged that it didn't focus on vegans.

 

You're right, in so far as this is a thread about Vegans, that I cannot prove that the 1.45 billion people who are described as vegetarians are actually vegan.  But if we assume that say 20% of them are (pick a number), then that means that 350 million are vegans.  But I can't prove it.

 

 

 

Fake news then!!  The Donald would be proud! 

[Maple Leaf]

1 minute ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

Fake news then!!  The Donald would be proud! 

 

I'm sure that Donald would claim that he invented veganism, if asked, but he'd probably choke on his cheeseburger breakfast. 

 

[Seymour M Hersh]

Just now, Maple Leaf said:

 

I'm sure that Donald would claim that he invented veganism, if asked, but he'd probably choke on his cheeseburger breakfast. 

 

 

Hey! A cheeseburger is only made from cheese!! It's in the name! 

[Elmore]

1 hour ago, Maple Leaf said:

 

Anyone who eats dairy, or eats pepperoni, is not a vegetarian.  They're deceiving themselves, if nothing else.

There is a term for those types. Flexitarian! Is that not just a Moody omnivore?  

[Maple Leaf]

20 minutes ago, Elmore said:

There is a term for those types. Flexitarian! Is that not just a Moody omnivore?  

 

That's a new term to me, but I like it.  It probably describes me:  A vegetarian who occasionally eats meat.

 

A spineless vegetarian is probably a better description than moody omnivore. 

[Elmore]

7 minutes ago, Maple Leaf said:

 

That's a new term to me, but I like it.  It probably describes me:  A vegetarian who occasionally eats meat.

 

A spineless vegetarian is probably a better description than moody omnivore. 

it is a cop out though. 

[Maple Leaf]

3 minutes ago, Elmore said:

it is a cop out though. 

 

Absolutely!

[Dawnrazor]

15 minutes ago, Maple Leaf said:

 

That's a new term to me, but I like it.  It probably describes me:  A vegetarian who occasionally eats meat.

 

 

That about sums me up too, about 90% vegetarian and 100% of the time dairy free. 

[i8hibsh]

She don't eat meat but she sure likes a bone

 

 

 

 

[John Gentleman]

11 hours ago, Maple Leaf said:

 

Yes. I think the percentage of vegans in the western world is around 5%, but it's growing.  Grocery stores in Canada are changing their product lines to cope with the increased demand.

 

The "hundreds of millions" I referred to are mostly in Asia.

 

9 hours ago, Maple Leaf said:

 

Anyone who eats dairy, or eats pepperoni, is not a vegetarian.  They're deceiving themselves, if nothing else.

So that strikes out the ~500 million in India who don't eat their livestock but most certainly consume the dairy products derived from them. And that's before we deal with the ovo-vegetarians (eat eggs), pesco-vegetarians (eat fish), or any combination thereof: 

Lacto-vegetarianism

...and some additional 'food-for-thought' here:

https://nutritionj.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1475-2891-13-89

[i8hibsh]

18 hours ago, Money4NothingDrinks4Free said:

 

50 billion chickens are killed a year. 

 

Of those 50 billion, 13% are 'wasted' e.g. go out of date, quality isn't good enough.

 

Save the chicken, save your soul!

 

Convert to veganism to secure your passage to the holy land!

 

 

 

Here is a paradox. Chickens and hens would be extinct within 100 years. If we were all vegans why have them? Where would they go? Who would look after them?

Edited August 1, 2018 by i8hibsh

[hughesie27]

Do vegans want nature tontakenits course, allow endangered animals to die out (obviously as a course of nature rather than human hunting) or would they support every species conservation (which would naturally restrict their complete freedom and result in human interference)?

[Money4NothingDrinks4Free]

2 hours ago, i8hibsh said:

 

Here is a paradox. Chickens and hens would be extinct within 100 years. If we were all vegans why have them? Where would they go? Who would look after them?

 

They would go to a chicken sanctuary's where they are looked after properly. 

 

1. This would save chickens and provide them with a happy life.

2. People would be employed to work in these sancuarys.

3. Visitors would pay to spend time with the chickens and feed them.

 

Chicken sancuarys save chickens and encourage economic growth.

 

Save the chicken, save the economy, educate the people, SAVE THE WORLD, SAVE YOUR SOUL!

[i8hibsh]

5 minutes ago, Money4NothingDrinks4Free said:

 

They would go to a chicken sanctuary's where they are looked after properly. 

 

1. This would save chickens and provide them with a happy life.

2. People would be employed to work in these sancuarys.

3. Visitors would pay to spend time with the chickens and feed them.

 

Chicken sancuarys save chickens and encourage economic growth.

 

Save the chicken, save the economy, educate the people, SAVE THE WORLD, SAVE YOUR SOUL!

 

 

Q. Why would anyone open up and maintain a chicken sanctuary when there is absolutely zero value in having them?

[Money4NothingDrinks4Free]

4 hours ago, i8hibsh said:

 

 

Q. Why would anyone open up and maintain a chicken sanctuary when there is absolutely zero value in having them?

 

Absolutely zero value!? (admin delete)

 

Chicken manure is one of the most desirable manures due to its high nutrient level.

 

In just America food scraps make up about 17% (29 million tons) of what is sent to landfills, chickens can eat pretty much most kitchen scraps – fruit and vegetable peelings, bread, cooked beans, cooked rice, oatmeal, pasta etc

 

Keeping chickens is seen as therapeutic for children on the autism spectrum by getting the kids involved in feeding and caring for the chickens.They have also been used for patients with dementia and other psychiatric disorders. Because chickens are always moving around, pecking and socializing, they’re seen as calming.

 

This is just a handful of many reasons.  (admin delete)

 

 

 

[i8hibsh]

3 hours ago, Money4NothingDrinks4Free said:

 

Absolutely zero value!? (admin delete)

 

Chicken manure is one of the most desirable manures due to its high nutrient level.

 

In just America food scraps make up about 17% (29 million tons) of what is sent to landfills, chickens can eat pretty much most kitchen scraps – fruit and vegetable peelings, bread, cooked beans, cooked rice, oatmeal, pasta etc

 

Keeping chickens is seen as therapeutic for children on the autism spectrum by getting the kids involved in feeding and caring for the chickens.They have also been used for patients with dementia and other psychiatric disorders. Because chickens are always moving around, pecking and socializing, they’re seen as calming.

 

This is just a handful of many reasons. 

 

Educate yourself before making such ridiculous statements, (admin delete)

 

 

And so the name calling begins.

 

I saw a donation page for Gorgie Farm recently, it is in deep deep water.  A small example but a pertinent one.  If you think autism and dementia therapy would be enough to see chicken farms/sanctuary’s all over the place you are deluded. Without using them for eggs and meat they would be a novelty here and there and that is it. 

 

Using them to create chicken manure would be laughed out the dragons den.  Seriously wee Theo and Deborah would be rolling about the floor if someone asked for investment to farm chickens for manure.  Chicken and Hens are a high commodity in this country for two reasons – meat and eggs.

 

Will you have Unicorns in this sanctuary?

[hughesie27]

He's at the wind up. Blatantly obvious.