Spellczech Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 16 minutes ago, Mister Dee said: There would be no person happier than me if they went bust again, but we have to face up to it -they are getting bankrolled by persons unknown at the moment, and are trying to sign their way to the league title. I agree with you. If bringing in Gerrard convinced another £10k Huns to buy STs and European tickets then there probably is some mug donating cash for the warchest...Could be those muppets in Largs who won £160m in the lottery and like the Rangers but also fund the SNP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMc Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 Given all that has come out about Croatian football recently, is think they'd potentially be easy for King to work with. might not be too hard to agree an inflated figure to sell to the media that would suit both parties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DH1986 Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 17 minutes ago, Mister Dee said: There would be no person happier than me if they went bust again, but we have to face up to it -they are getting bankrolled by persons unknown at the moment, and are trying to sign their way to the league title. Em.... How else they going to hope to achieving success if it’s not by signing players ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Dee Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 3 minutes ago, DH1986 said: Em.... How else they going to hope to achieving success if it’s not by signing players ? My point was not that they’re signing players (duh), it’s that we seem preoccupied by the thought that they haven’t got any money. Well, they have -& they’re spending it. (Hopefully, wasting it) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambosdad Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 5 minutes ago, Spellczech said: I agree with you. If bringing in Gerrard convinced another £10k Huns to buy STs and European tickets then there probably is some mug donating cash for the warchest...Could be those muppets in Largs who won £160m in the lottery and like the Rangers but also fund the SNP. The muppets from Largs gave money to Patrick Thistle for training facilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allowayjambo1874 Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 9 minutes ago, Spellczech said: I agree with you. If bringing in Gerrard convinced another £10k Huns to buy STs and European tickets then there probably is some mug donating cash for the warchest...Could be those muppets in Largs who won £160m in the lottery and like the Rangers but also fund the SNP. They’ve given £4m to Partick Thistle to invest in a training ground. Given their support for SNP I would very much doubt they are pouring cash into Rangers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
132goals1958 Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 9 minutes ago, Mister Dee said: My point was not that they’re signing players (duh), it’s that we seem preoccupied by the thought that they haven’t got any money. Well, they have -& they’re spending it. (Hopefully, wasting it) You would think they would be better served extinguishing a secured loan over their assets, from a lender of last resort Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Brown Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 1 hour ago, chuck berrys hairline said: Why waste their little credit on a cup tied eastern European My hun work colleague told me he was outstanding against them, he was dead chuffed. when I said about being cup-tied. He said he was able to play in the Europa League. he could be right, this is only the qualification stage. Two more rounds to win yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllyjamboDerbyshire Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 1 hour ago, Smithee said: They were never intended to be paid back, they're just a mechanism for putting money into the club As I alluded to in my reply to 132 goals 1958, I'd misunderstood the thrust of your post, thinking you were suggesting that the directors (3bears) wouldn't recall the loans because income tax would be owed (by them), and apologised accordingly. While I agree that it was originally a mechanism for putting money into the club, with no intention of getting it back, things have moved on, greatly, in a none too successful way, and they might easily change their minds (unless they are contracted to the debt for equity swop irrevocably). Unless they are completely blind, they must be aware by now that King is not to be trusted and they might prefer to remain lenders, with some recourse in the event of insolvency, rather than increase their shareholding only to see King recall his loans, and/or those he appears to control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homme Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 The Croatian lad was outstanding against them in both games and if he plays to that level he is a steal at that price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinmaroon Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 1 hour ago, Allowayjambo1874 said: They’ve given £4m to Partick Thistle to invest in a training ground. Given their support for SNP I would very much doubt they are pouring cash into Rangers. They aren't! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfirst Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 1 hour ago, Spellczech said: Could be those muppets in Largs who won £160m in the lottery and like the Rangers but also fund the SNP. They invested in Partick. However, I think your description of them as "muppets" is a tad out of order. I assume that you are more courteous to the "mystery benefactors" that benefited Hearts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuck berrys hairline Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 1 hour ago, Tommy Brown said: My hun work colleague told me he was outstanding against them, he was dead chuffed. when I said about being cup-tied. He said he was able to play in the Europa League. he could be right, this is only the qualification stage. Two more rounds to win yet. So you can play in two consecutive rounds for different clubs seems odd! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Brown Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 5 minutes ago, chuck berrys hairline said: So you can play in two consecutive rounds for different clubs seems odd! no, he cant play in the next two rounds, but may be able to play in the League stages forward. I don't know how true this is, taking his word for it. It may be classed as a new competition after the qualifying rounds. Hopefully it's bullshit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuck berrys hairline Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 4 minutes ago, Tommy Brown said: no, he cant play in the next two rounds, but may be able to play in the League stages forward. I don't know how true this is, taking his word for it. It may be classed as a new competition after the qualifying rounds. Hopefully it's bullshit Get you know think I misread your post. Think he may be right but imo still strange as you've already participated in the tournament. Nothing to worry about they won't make it that far Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Of The Cat Cafe Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 13 hours ago, The Gasman said: That’s certainly what usually happens with Directors Loans - a debt for equity swap at some point.... ....but with the Club still trading at a loss, and with still no sign of any rights issue to bring in fresh capital (promised by King for the end of June past) I’m not sure all the Directors will necessarily be happy to accept shares in a business being run that way, they may be looking at getting their cash back at some point. Rangers certainly prove the validity of the age old question: "how do you make a small fortune out of football? Start with a large one..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milky_26 Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 14 minutes ago, Tommy Brown said: no, he cant play in the next two rounds, but may be able to play in the League stages forward. I don't know how true this is, taking his word for it. It may be classed as a new competition after the qualifying rounds. Hopefully it's bullshit yes he can or at least that is my reading of it as uefa have removed the cup-tied rule http://www.espn.co.uk/football/uefa-champions-league/story/3432917/champions-league-cup-tied-rule-abolished-what-does-it-mean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Brown Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 (edited) 10 minutes ago, chuck berrys hairline said: Get you know think I misread your post. Think he may be right but imo still strange as you've already participated in the tournament. Nothing to worry about they won't make it that far edit: Post removed as Milky posted his link Edited August 7, 2018 by Tommy Brown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spellczech Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 2 hours ago, Footballfirst said: They invested in Partick. However, I think your description of them as "muppets" is a tad out of order. I assume that you are more courteous to the "mystery benefactors" that benefited Hearts. How does one link to the other? I called them muppets because I don't approve of people who retire early due to obesity spending their benefits on lottery tickets...Also sure I remember the man saying that one of the first things he would buy would be a box at Ibrox. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, AllyjamboDerbyshire said: As I alluded to in my reply to 132 goals 1958, I'd misunderstood the thrust of your post, thinking you were suggesting that the directors (3bears) wouldn't recall the loans because income tax would be owed (by them), and apologised accordingly. While I agree that it was originally a mechanism for putting money into the club, with no intention of getting it back, things have moved on, greatly, in a none too successful way, and they might easily change their minds (unless they are contracted to the debt for equity swop irrevocably). Unless they are completely blind, they must be aware by now that King is not to be trusted and they might prefer to remain lenders, with some recourse in the event of insolvency, rather than increase their shareholding only to see King recall his loans, and/or those he appears to control. Interestingly, if a loan is simply forgiven it would then be classed as income and tax would then actually be due. But I digress.. I'm pretty sure they'd be helpless if there was an insolvency event by the way, as connected parties don't get to vote on the cva, as we experienced ourselves. Edited August 7, 2018 by Smithee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 5 hours ago, AllyjamboDerbyshire said: I am fully aware that no tax is payable on the repayment of a loan but thought Smithee was suggesting that the loans would not be recalled because they would be taxable, but see now what he meant, I think. However (unless the directors contracted, unequivocally, to turn their loans into shares), there is no tax efficiency involved to discourage the lenders from demanding repayment. Also, in the event the loans were 'forgiven' surely tax would only be payable should the company (club) make a profit, with the forgiven loans seen as income? I think I made the mistake of jumping into Smithee's conversation without seeing how it started, sorry mate No worries, it's all a friendly chat down the pub Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllyjamboDerbyshire Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 3 minutes ago, Smithee said: Interestingly, if a loan is simply forgiven it would then be classed as income and tax would then actually be due. But I digress.. I'm pretty sure they'd be helpless if there was an insolvency event by the way, as connected parties don't get to vote on the cva, as we experienced ourselves. Forgiven debt would only be taxable as part of a profit, and I doubt there's many instances of a profit making company benefitting from debt forgiveness, but no tax would be due in a loss making company like RIFC/TRFC. Regardless of voting rights, as creditors they'd get a proportionate share of the pot, which would be infinitely more than they'd get if they converted their loans to shares, which, if they don't see the club getting out of this loss making cycle, might make them ditch any plans to carry out the conversion. What's more, if they do convert to shares, King would stand to get an even bigger slice of the pot in the event of liquidation, for I doubt he's any intention of converting his loans, no matter what he might say. It has to be remembered that whatever the original plan might have been, it's doubtful that it's working to anyone's satisfaction, not even King's, and nobody, not even millionaires, like to lose everything from any 'investment', and doubly so if they consider they've been taken for mugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobNox Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 1 hour ago, AllyjamboDerbyshire said: Forgiven debt would only be taxable as part of a profit, and I doubt there's many instances of a profit making company benefitting from debt forgiveness, but no tax would be due in a loss making company like RIFC/TRFC. Regardless of voting rights, as creditors they'd get a proportionate share of the pot, which would be infinitely more than they'd get if they converted their loans to shares, which, if they don't see the club getting out of this loss making cycle, might make them ditch any plans to carry out the conversion. What's more, if they do convert to shares, King would stand to get an even bigger slice of the pot in the event of liquidation, for I doubt he's any intention of converting his loans, no matter what he might say. It has to be remembered that whatever the original plan might have been, it's doubtful that it's working to anyone's satisfaction, not even King's, and nobody, not even millionaires, like to lose everything from any 'investment', and doubly so if they consider they've been taken for mugs. Park in particular has provided additional loans over and above his initial commitment. He and the others would have been expecting a share issue to take place fairly quickly, and for Rangers to be in a much stronger financial position than they are now, such that their shares would increase in value. It amazes me that some very successful businessmen allowed themselves to be duped by King, given his history of deception. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllyjamboDerbyshire Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 8 minutes ago, RobNox said: Park in particular has provided additional loans over and above his initial commitment. He and the others would have been expecting a share issue to take place fairly quickly, and for Rangers to be in a much stronger financial position than they are now, such that their shares would increase in value. It amazes me that some very successful businessmen allowed themselves to be duped by King, given his history of deception. I'm sure a conman's greatest skill will be in taking advantage of peoples emotions and ambitions. There can be little doubt that all of the 3bears were making an emotional commitment and would be blinded to everything other than saving a club they were desperate to consider as Rangers. It wouldn't have been hard for King to convince them all that his plan would work, especially if they believed him when he spoke of investing £30m of his own money. If, as it appears, the 3bears have decided enough is enough in terms of loans, then they have probably realised what King is up to and are only hanging on in the hope that someone more honest and reliable steps in to take over from King. In the meantime, they probably have more influence over what happens at Ibrox through their positions as lenders, rather than as shareholders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lost in space Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 2 hours ago, Spellczech said: How does one link to the other? I called them muppets because I don't approve of people who retire early due to obesity spending their benefits on lottery tickets...Also sure I remember the man saying that one of the first things he would buy would be a box at Ibrox. WOW - so allegedly, On benefits\ Sevco fans\ gamblers\obese - and worse of all - SNP benefactors ? Money cant buy happiness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Findlay Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 6 hours ago, Spellczech said: I agree with you. If bringing in Gerrard convinced another £10k Huns to buy STs and European tickets then there probably is some mug donating cash for the warchest...Could be those muppets in Largs who won £160m in the lottery and like the Rangers but also fund the SNP. 2 hours ago, Spellczech said: How does one link to the other? I called them muppets because I don't approve of people who retire early due to obesity spending their benefits on lottery tickets...Also sure I remember the man saying that one of the first things he would buy would be a box at Ibrox. A terrible thing the old green eyed monster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EIEIO Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 2 hours ago, Spellczech said: How does one link to the other? I called them muppets because I don't approve of people who retire early due to obesity spending their benefits on lottery tickets...Also sure I remember the man saying that one of the first things he would buy would be a box at Ibrox. They fund the thistle youth academy. Fake news re the huns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambovambo Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 Anyway .... wtf http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/16403839.police-investigate-completely-unacceptable-destruction-of-childs-sandcastle-by-rangers-fan/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alwaysthereinspirit Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 5 minutes ago, jambovambo said: Anyway .... wtf http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/16403839.police-investigate-completely-unacceptable-destruction-of-childs-sandcastle-by-rangers-fan/ Scum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meadows Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 If .... note the word if , Dave King signs numerous players and their reported values £2m , £2.5m ,£8m etc etc This would obviously show in their annual accounts assests . Over inflating the club’s balance books . Is there any advantage in this for the glib and shameless liar ? Other than if he were to find a patsy to buy him out or to say to the fans “look , told you I’d spend £30m” ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spellczech Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 44 minutes ago, John Findlay said: A terrible thing the old green eyed monster. I apologise for failing to realise that winning £160m on the lottery bought automatic respect from so many... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambovambo Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 https://philmacgiollabhain.ie/2018/08/07/sevco-roulette-2/ All believable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambovambo Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 https://philmacgiollabhain.ie/2018/08/07/sevco-roulette-2/ All believable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamie1874 Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 16 minutes ago, Meadows said: If .... note the word if , Dave King signs numerous players and their reported values £2m , £2.5m ,£8m etc etc This would obviously show in their annual accounts assests . Over inflating the club’s balance books . Is there any advantage in this for the glib and shameless liar ? Other than if he were to find a patsy to buy him out or to say to the fans “look , told you I’d spend £30m” ? Back in the day I am sure this this was an old Italian trick. Everyone seemed to move for the same fee, Player from Milan to Parma, another player goes Parma to Juve, finally someone else Juve to Milan Etc, probably no money changed hands but now all could show on balance sheet a £30m player that would probably help them borrow more cash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XB52 Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 9 minutes ago, Spellczech said: I apologise for failing to realise that winning £160m on the lottery bought automatic respect from so many... ?? Just don't think people winning lots of money and choosing to help the non-bigotted club in Glasgow marks them as Muppets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaywalker Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 10 minutes ago, jambovambo said: https://philmacgiollabhain.ie/2018/08/07/sevco-roulette-2/ All believable. Has that prat ever got anything correct yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Findlay Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 15 minutes ago, Spellczech said: I apologise for failing to realise that winning £160m on the lottery bought automatic respect from so many... The respect is for the fact they have done more good than bad with it. Do your homework better. Before putting the boot in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spellczech Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 2 minutes ago, XB52 said: ?? Just don't think people winning lots of money and choosing to help the non-bigotted club in Glasgow marks them as Muppets Ah right. Yeah, I don't give a monkeys for Partick Thistle myself. Don't see any reason to favour them just for not being the OF...I may dislike both OF, but I feel nothing for Thistle, as I do for Hamilton, Motherwell, Queens Park, Airdrie, Pollok etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckydug Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 13 minutes ago, Spellczech said: I apologise for failing to realise that winning £160m on the lottery bought automatic respect from so many... It does when you have set up a trust fund to help people in financial hardship. As well as donating money to the SNP they have also gifted a significant amount to Partick Thistle youth academy as well as funding a new grandstand and pavilion for their local junior club in Largs. Add to that a new clubhouse for the local bowling club. I nearly forgot they helped a young boy out with the cost of an artificial limb. That's of the top of my head I'm sure there are many more through their trust fund. I suspect it's one of these donations that bothers you and it's not the fictional box at Ibrox. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spellczech Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 4 minutes ago, John Findlay said: The respect is for the fact they have done more good than bad with it. Do your homework better. Before putting the boot in. Ok John there's your research: Thanks to their decision to go public with their big win, their fortunes have been covered widely in the media, giving us the chance to see how the pair have fared as lottery winners. Aside from showering friends and family with money, and purchasing a £3.5 million dream home, they have invested heavily in Partick Thistle football club. After clearing their debts, the couple went on to fund a lavish youth setup, which they hope will ensure future success for Partick Thistle. Their spending didn't stop there. Colin and Christine launched the Weir Trust, a philanthropic venture to support Scottish charities and groups to help their local communities, and have given away around £5 million since its founding. The pair are known for their commitment to the local community, and one Christmas they organised a huge light display in the town of Troon. The couple have also waded into politics, and become some of the UK's biggest political donors after giving out over £3 million to the SNP, and backing the Yes vote in the failed Scottish independence referendum. Personally I think a lot more could be done with £161m in 7 years, as you could make at least £5m a year just in interest, but we can agree to differ on that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Findlay Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 2 minutes ago, Spellczech said: Ok John there's your research: Thanks to their decision to go public with their big win, their fortunes have been covered widely in the media, giving us the chance to see how the pair have fared as lottery winners. Aside from showering friends and family with money, and purchasing a £3.5 million dream home, they have invested heavily in Partick Thistle football club. After clearing their debts, the couple went on to fund a lavish youth setup, which they hope will ensure future success for Partick Thistle. Their spending didn't stop there. Colin and Christine launched the Weir Trust, a philanthropic venture to support Scottish charities and groups to help their local communities, and have given away around £5 million since its founding. The pair are known for their commitment to the local community, and one Christmas they organised a huge light display in the town of Troon. The couple have also waded into politics, and become some of the UK's biggest political donors after giving out over £3 million to the SNP, and backing the Yes vote in the failed Scottish independence referendum. Personally I think a lot more could be done with £161m in 7 years, as you could make at least £5m a year just in interest, but we can agree to differ on that... Well when you win be sure to give us a rundown of how you've spent your fortune. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Vladimir of Romanov Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 Donated to the SNP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spellczech Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 3 minutes ago, John Findlay said: Well when you win be sure to give us a rundown of how you've spent your fortune. Sure (Bet you wished you'd done your research, huh?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Findlay Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 1 minute ago, Spellczech said: Sure (Bet you wished you'd done your research, huh?) Personally I still believe they have done more good than bad with their money. You really shouldn't be so jealous of other people and their money. Regardless of how they came by it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1971fozzy Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 I think if most Hearts fans won £160m they would donate a wee wedge to the club in the form of infrastructure. What the couple from Largs have done is brilliant for PThistle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Findlay Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 6 minutes ago, Sir Vladimir of Romanov said: Donated to the SNP. Their perogative. Could have really wasted it by giving it to the Conservatives, Labour or the Lib Dems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Vladimir of Romanov Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 3 minutes ago, John Findlay said: Their perogative. Could have really wasted it by giving it to the Conservatives, Labour or the Lib Dems. Very true John. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XB52 Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 2 hours ago, Spellczech said: Ok John there's your research: Thanks to their decision to go public with their big win, their fortunes have been covered widely in the media, giving us the chance to see how the pair have fared as lottery winners. Aside from showering friends and family with money, and purchasing a £3.5 million dream home, they have invested heavily in Partick Thistle football club. After clearing their debts, the couple went on to fund a lavish youth setup, which they hope will ensure future success for Partick Thistle. Their spending didn't stop there. Colin and Christine launched the Weir Trust, a philanthropic venture to support Scottish charities and groups to help their local communities, and have given away around £5 million since its founding. The pair are known for their commitment to the local community, and one Christmas they organised a huge light display in the town of Troon. The couple have also waded into politics, and become some of the UK's biggest political donors after giving out over £3 million to the SNP, and backing the Yes vote in the failed Scottish independence referendum. Personally I think a lot more could be done with £161m in 7 years, as you could make at least £5m a year just in interest, but we can agree to differ on that... You could have saved yourself from digging your hole deeper and deeper if you had just said you hate the snp. What a weird turn this thread has taken, thanks for ruining the last page. Now can we get back to laughing at sevco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
132goals1958 Posted August 8, 2018 Share Posted August 8, 2018 10 hours ago, John Findlay said: Their perogative. Could have really wasted it by giving it to the Conservatives, Labour or the Lib Dems. A complete waste giving money to any political party.A bunch of drama queens the lot of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Findlay Posted August 8, 2018 Share Posted August 8, 2018 26 minutes ago, 132goals1958 said: A complete waste giving money to any political party.A bunch of drama queens the lot of them. My thinking too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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