The Rangers soap opera goes on and on.

[davieholt]

The jury aren't allowed to infer anything negative from silence, unlike in most of europe.

 

Not being allowed can't stop thinking! 

[Unknown user]

 

Boom!

 

"Gave us the opportunity to get players we otherwise couldn't afford"

There it is!

 

[Don Dan]

James Doleman? @jamesdoleman

 

Murray on EBTs: "Gave us the opportunity to get players we otherwise couldn't afford"

 

 

So you cheated then to win titles!!

 

 

Sweep sweep under carpet with this one smsm?

Edited April 26, 2017 by Dannie Boy

[Hagar the Horrible]

Hope they ask these basic questions:

 

How much money did tou actually put into the club?

How much money did you take back by any finacial mechanism available?

Why did you just not pay off the wee tax case?

Did you sanction the use of EBT's

How much did you take from this instrument?

How much was paid out in total?

Where did the origional money come from into this off-shore account?

Did you believe the use off EBT's was legitamate?

Why not disclose to HMRC?

Why did you off players dual contracts?

Then defenenetly why not disclose these to both HMRC and the SFA/SPFL?

Can you confirm that you hid these dual contracts from the SFA/SPFL as you knew they might be classed as tax avoidance?

Did you try to avoid paying tax on purpose?

Have you used ticketus prior to mr Whytes takeover?

Why did Lloyds put their own man on the board?

Were they concerned that you were running the club into the ground?

Were Rangers in effective administration?

Did LLoyds know about Whyte and where he was funding the takeover from?

Did you have any dealings with Whyte prior to the takeover?

Did you recommend ticketus to Whyte?

Did you do any due diligence on Whyte

You stated in public you would onle sell to somebody who had the best interests of the club at heart, why sell to Whyte?

Did the bank enforce/endorse the sale?

With the use of the EBT's did you cheat the other member clubs?

Were you breaking Uefa's  FPP rules on finincial doping?

Did you sell to Whyte/anybody so that you would not get the public blame for killing one of the biggest football blubs in the UK?

If the EBT's were loans, then why did those benefactors not pay back these loans?

If they were loans as per the dual contracts then by law why did the club not just pay the tax on them?

Was the club trading while insolvent under your watch?

Did you control the media over this sale and everything surrounding Rangers?

Did you Kill Airdrionians just for fun, or could you not have done a deal?

Are you to blame for the death of Deadco?

Finally did you cook the lamb or can you recommend the chef?

[Don Dan]

 

James Doleman? @jamesdoleman

 

Murray on EBTs: "Gave us the opportunity to get players we otherwise couldn't afford"

 

 

 

Is wisnae me honest.

[CollyWolly]

The jury aren't allowed to infer anything negative from silence, unlike in most of europe.

They are instructed not to infer anything, but cmon, what would enter your head as a juror if an accused refused to answer a question on the grounds that it might incriminate him.

 

Its generally witnesses that do this. Accused persons who fear questions, just don't give evidence. OJ Simpson didn't give evidence. He'd have been convicted if he had. Whyte wont give evidence (IMO) for the same reason. He will come across as a smart arsed wee prick who is guilty as hell if he does.

Edited April 26, 2017 by CollyWolly

[Unknown user]

Not being allowed can't stop thinking!

Juries confer and discuss and there are penalties for breaking the rules - they don't vote on a feeling or an inference, it has to be proven beyond reasonable doubt.

[Don Dan]

Murray says he had seen proof of funds from Whyte's solicitors and "everything seemed fine "

[CollyWolly]

Juries confer and discuss and there are penalties for breaking the rules - they don't vote on a feeling or an inference, it has to be proven beyond reasonable doubt.

He wont give evidence if he intends not to answer some questions. Its suicidal for any accused to do so in front of a jury and Findlay wont let him.

Edited April 26, 2017 by CollyWolly

[DETTY29]

Hope they ask these basic questions:

 

 

Did you sanction the use of EBT's

How much did you take from this instrument?

How much was paid out in total?

Where did the origional money come from into this off-shore account?

Did you believe the use off EBT's was legitamate?

Why not disclose to HMRC?

Why did you off players dual contracts?

Then defenenetly why not disclose these to both HMRC and the SFA/SPFL?

Can you confirm that you hid these dual contracts from the SFA/SPFL as you knew they might be classed as tax avoidance?

Did you try to avoid paying tax on purpose?

With the use of the EBT's did you cheat the other member clubs?

If the EBT's were loans, then why did those benefactors not pay back these loans?

If they were loans as per the dual contracts then by law why did the club not just pay the tax on them?

 

Did you or anyone associated with Rangers / Murray group seek any formal or informal guidance from the SFA / SPL?

 

Was a post 14 day 'imperfectly registered' moratorium advice ever provided by the SFA?

[DETTY29]

@jamesdoleman 3m3 minutes ago

 

Murray confirms his shares were sold for ?1. Says originally price was ?4m but he wanted to ensure future funds for players.

-------

Very good Disco Dave.

 

Nothing to do with WTC or GCC recommended repairs?

[CollyWolly]

Did you or anyone associated with Rangers / Murray group seek any formal or informal guidance from the SFA / SPL?

 

Was a post 14 day 'imperfectly registered' moratorium advice ever provided by the SFA?

You don't think they might be asked by the judge to stick to questions relative to the charges no ?

[269miles]

 

@jamesdoleman 3m3 minutes ago

 

Murray confirms his shares were sold for ?1. Says originally price was ?4m but he wanted to ensure future funds for players.

-------

Very good Disco Dave.

 

Nothing to do with WTC or GCC recommended repairs?

 

Findlay should have asked him - what about the ?1.7 million for stadium maintenance & safety.

McIntyre already said on oath they didn't have the money for that.

[Lincon Premier]

Doncaster and Regan must go now. They surely can't stay and argue the no sporting advantage crap again. IF they had any decency they would walk before being pushed.

[DETTY29]

You don't think they might be asked by the judge to stick to questions relative to the charges no ?

I know I should have added that as an additional line.

[Footballfirst]

 

Interesting morning so far. Murray has defended his position and that of Rangers in fairly strong terms. However I believe that Findlay will see opportunities to challenge Murray?s assertions once we get to the cross examination

[JJ1984]

Interesting morning so far. Murray has defended his position and that of Rangers in fairly strong terms. However I believe that Findlay will see opportunities to challenge Murray?s assertions once we get to the cross examination

Findlay going at Murray will certainly be eventful. 

[...a bit disco]

James Doleman? @jamesdoleman  4m4 minutes ago

More

Parties called back into court

 

 

 

'Wood...'

[Lincon Premier]

On a slight tangent, When does the King case take place? The one where he is going to be cold shouldered? More important from a Sevco point of view, and what will happen in the league. Could it potentially mean we step up a place? 

Still think they will struggle to the split before taking the admin hit and they end up bottom of the top six.Hopefully they don't manage to stay afloat long enough to consolidate their finish place and take the hit next season as that could cost us money and Ann should be very vocal about that.

[CollyWolly]

Doncaster and Regan must go now. They surely can't stay and argue the no sporting advantage crap again. IF they had any decency they would walk before being pushed.

They already fully admitted there was a advantage gained in using EBT's, However it was an advantage that was available to every club to use so not an unfair advantage

 

Lets not forget, our club, amongst others, voted to appoint and retain these two clowns and we've never uttered an official word against either of them as far as I am aware. Neither has any other club.

[buzzbomb1958]

 

Boom!

 

James Doleman? @jamesdoleman 3m3 minutes ago

 

 

More

 

Murray on EBTs: "Gave us the opportunity to get players we otherwise couldn't afford" #WhyteTrial

There will be a few boardroom members shifting uneasily in their seats after that admission ,GSFA phones should be ringing off the hook ,as far as I'm concerned if you've managed to acquire players you could not afford through subterfuge and tax dodging that is stonewall cheating,strip them of everything they won during that period I say or as before will they sweep it under an already bulging carpet

[Lincon Premier]

They already fully admitted there was a advantage gained in using EBT's, However it was an advantage that was available to every club to use so not an unfair advantage

 

Lets not forget, our club, amongst others, voted to appoint and retain these two clowns and we've never uttered an official word against either of them as far as I am aware. Neither has any other club.

They claimed no sporting advantage because other clubs could have used EBT's. Had all the other clubs used them then we would not have a league left as every club would have folded due to big tax bills. The two clowns should be moved on.

[alwaysthereinspirit]

Doncaster and Regan must go now. They surely can't stay and argue the no sporting advantage crap again. IF they had any decency they would walk before being pushed.

Who's going to push them. Clubs have know for at least 3 years that a deal was made with Newco by the people running our game.

Since they found out they've both had contract extensions and salary increases. Only club fans can push this.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

 

Boom!

 

 

James Doleman? @jamesdoleman  3m3 minutes ago

More

Murray on EBTs: "Gave us the opportunity to get players we otherwise couldn't afford" #WhyteTrial

 

 

Doesn't this statement finally confirm that the entire LNS inquiry was a sham from start to finish? 

[Unknown user]

They claimed no sporting advantage because other clubs could have used EBT's. Had all the other clubs used them then we would not have a league left as every club would have folded due to big tax bills. The two clowns should be moved on.

Any club could have used EBTs, the point they're missing is that old rangers gained a sporting advantage by abusing them, a course of action not available to other clubs.

[Musemic]

Who's going to push them. Clubs have know for at least 3 years that a deal was made with Newco by the people running our game.

Since they found out they've both had contract extensions and salary increases. Only club fans can push this.

Were somebody to create a petition to this effect, I'm sure there would be enough signatories to make the SFA take notice

[Lovecraft]

Doesn't this statement finally confirm that the entire LNS inquiry was a sham from start to finish? 

 

[Lovecraft]

Were somebody to create a petition to this effect, I'm sure there would be enough signatories to make the SFA take notice

 

I'm fairly sure some Celtic fans will be doing that right now.

[Shug73]

James Doleman? @jamesdoleman  43s43 seconds ago

More

Murray says if he knew the source of Whyte's funds was Ticketus "categorically we would not have done the deal" #WhyteTrial

[Jeff]

 

James Doleman? @jamesdoleman  43s43 seconds ago

More

Murray says if he knew the source of Whyte's funds was Ticketus "categorically we would not have done the deal" #WhyteTrial

 

 

Anyone believe this?

[Feeno]

How do you prove other wise really

[alwaysthereinspirit]

I'm fairly sure some Celtic fans will be doing that right now.

I'd like to know the reasons (money) club executives weren't all over this as it unfolded.

This thread is over 5 years old. Its time Newco were punished for real.

[Mr Sifter]

Were somebody to create a petition to this effect, I'm sure there would be enough signatories to make the SFA take notice

Exactly this. I've said for long enough. If you got even 50% of Scottish season ticket holders to sign such a thing, threatening to take their money out the coffers, clubs would HAVE to do something.

[hearts related nickname]

Anyone believe this?

I believe that Murray suggested it

[Musemic]

I believe that Murray suggested it

 

Now wouldn't it be nice if wee Craig had a tape recording of that conversation, were it the case....

[Lovecraft]

Now wouldn't it be nice if wee Craig had a tape recording of that conversation, were it the case....

 

Oh, that would be so good.

 

Seems he did record quite a bit.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

David Murray has just admitted in court that Rangers' use of EBT's allowed them to attract players they wouldn't have been able to afford otherwise, this statement is now a matter of public record.

If the Supreme Court agrees that the Rangers EBT's were indeed illegal, then by definition Rangers cheated and David Murray has just admitted it.

 

As Rangers are quick to claim that they are the same club as before, then surely that same club has to be stripped of every title & cup which was won by cheating during the EBT period.

 

And as for the SFA saying that the EBT's were available to everybody else, that's like saying anybody can hold up a bank, but guess why very few actually do it, because they know it's wrong.

[Lovecraft]

James Doleman? @jamesdoleman  13m13 minutes ago

More

Findlay "Football can be very unpredictable...a bad refereeing decision can see millions of pounds evaporate before your eyes" Murray "yes"

 

 

 

 

Hmmmmmmmmmm

[Don Dan]

James Doleman? @jamesdoleman  13m13 minutes ago

 

 

More

 

 

 

 

Findlay "Football can be very unpredictable...a bad refereeing decision can see millions of pounds evaporate before your eyes" Murray "yes"

 

 

 

 

Hmmmmmmmmmm

 

 

 

Or appear in your teams bank account.

[Winston Ingram]

David Murray has just admitted in court that Rangers' use of EBT's allowed them to attract players they wouldn't have been able to afford otherwise, this statement is now a matter of public record.

If the Supreme Court agrees that the Rangers EBT's were indeed illegal, then by definition Rangers cheated and David Murray has just admitted it.

 

As Rangers are quick to claim that they are the same club as before, then surely that same club has to be stripped of every title & cup which was won by cheating during the EBT period.

 

And as for the SFA saying that the EBT's were available to everybody else, that's like saying anybody can hold up a bank, but guess why very few actually do it, because they know it's wrong.

 

Not really. Having financial advantage doesn't equal illegal. It is perfectly obvious the scheme meant what Murray said. 

[corryjambo]

 

James Doleman? @jamesdoleman  13m13 minutes ago

More

Findlay "Football can be very unpredictable...a bad refereeing decision can see millions of pounds evaporate before your eyes" Murray "yes"

 

 

 

 

Hmmmmmmmmmm

 

 

If he is under oath he should have answered " we never had one when I was at the helm, in fact we got a lot of help from the refereeing fraternity just ask Hugh Dallas or Andy Davis".

 

I wonder what Scottish refereeing decision ever cost the blue noses millions of pounds. Answers on a postcard please.

Edited April 26, 2017 by corryjambo

[Jeff]

Now wouldn't it be nice if wee Craig had a tape recording of that conversation, were it the case....

 

Entrapment wouldn't work

[alwaysthereinspirit]

No one will I'm afraid, every club chairman has put the orange pound above sporting integrity on this. They'd rather forget all about oldco rangers cheating, tainted titles & the Sfa's collusion with them.

 

The man behind the biggest cheating scandal in Scottish football is in the witness box instead of being the accused whilst regan & doncaster are prob smoking cigars laughing at the part they played in the con. [emoji6]

I still live in the hope that this will all implode on them sooner than later. I ******* hate Scottish football. Must be the only footballing association in the world that literally has no balls.

[269miles]

David Murray has just admitted in court that Rangers' use of EBT's allowed them to attract players they wouldn't have been able to afford otherwise, this statement is now a matter of public record.

If the Supreme Court agrees that the Rangers EBT's were indeed illegal, then by definition Rangers cheated and David Murray has just admitted it.

 

As Rangers are quick to claim that they are the same club as before, then surely that same club has to be stripped of every title & cup which was won by cheating during the EBT period.

 

And as for the SFA saying that the EBT's were available to everybody else, that's like saying anybody can hold up a bank, but guess why very few actually do it, because they know it's wrong.

The only point that matters is that LNS made his findings on the back of the EBTs not being illegal. So if the Supreme Court is to rule that they were then you'd think the the SFA will have to reconsider. That's if anyone forces them to as they won't do so voluntarily. There was no "sporting advantage" according to LNS because any club could have used EBTs - because they were not illegal. It was Rangers particular use of them that was illegal. The side letters buried them. If the EBTs had been used "properly" they would have gotten away with it. 

[alwaysthereinspirit]

James Doleman? @jamesdoleman  13m13 minutes ago

 

 

More

 

 

 

 

Findlay "Football can be very unpredictable...a bad refereeing decision can see millions of pounds evaporate before your eyes" Murray "yes"

 

 

 

 

Hmmmmmmmmmm

He wouldn't know a bad refereeing decision if it bit him on the @$$. Certainly not against his team.

[269miles]

Has Findlay asked SDM why he went ahead with the sale when his own people/board raised serious concerns about Whyte ?

[Footballfirst]

Has Findlay asked SDM why he went ahead with the sale when his own people/board raised serious concerns about Whyte ?

Give him time. We are only at the introductory stage of the defence response.

 

I believe that there was meant to be another witness called before SDM but that this person wasn't going to be available today, hence SDM was brought forward. I wonder if a glib person might be busy elsewhere.

Edited April 26, 2017 by Footballfirst

[Jambo-Jimbo]

Not really. Having financial advantage doesn't equal illegal. It is perfectly obvious the scheme meant what Murray said. 

 

If the Supreme Court upholds the High Courts decision that Rangers' use of the EBT system was Illegal then surely that would mean that Rangers had not only a Financial Advantage but an Illegal Financial Advantage over everybody else.

[Heartsofgold]

David Murray has just admitted in court that Rangers' use of EBT's allowed them to attract players they wouldn't have been able to afford otherwise, this statement is now a matter of public record.

If the Supreme Court agrees that the Rangers EBT's were indeed illegal, then by definition Rangers cheated and David Murray has just admitted it.

 

As Rangers are quick to claim that they are the same club as before, then surely that same club has to be stripped of every title & cup which was won by cheating during the EBT period.

 

And as for the SFA saying that the EBT's were available to everybody else, that's like saying anybody can hold up a bank, but guess why very few actually do it, because they know it's wrong.

I wonder if this means we would be awarded the League Cup from 1996 then.........

[Pans Jambo]

James Doleman? @jamesdoleman

 

Murray on EBTs: "Gave us the opportunity to get players we otherwise couldn't afford"

 

 

 

Is wisnae me honest.

 Shockeroonie...Well who knew?