The Rangers soap opera goes on and on.

[Footballfirst]

Can I ask what background you have in accounting to come on and post what you do? Are you qualified in company law, accountancy or a legal background or do you have a laymans knowledge of these things.

 

Your first sentence portrays yourself as someone who knows more than other posters, and I was just wondering whether you are full of yourself and act like you know and understand these things or whether you have a background in the subjects and are professionally qualified to comment?

As far as accounting is concerned I'd call myself as a self taught layman.  I can read a basic set of accounts, e.g. those of a football club,  with a reasonable degree of confidence in my interpretation of the figures, although there remain a number of entries in a full set of accounts that are beyond me. I do have an "O" Grade in "Principles of Accounts" from 1971/72 though.   

 

If you can show me some evidence that what was presented in the RIFC statement includes loans within the revenue figure, then I will apologise unreservedly.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

I get more annoyed when some smug know it all poster from thousands of miles away tries to act as if he is some sort of authority of what does and doesn't constitute fraud in Scotland.

 

Please do not ever presume you can tell me or any other Hearts supporter what should or should not annoy us.

Dear pot, love kettle

[Malinga the Swinga]

As far as accounting is concerned I'd call myself as a self taught layman.  I can read a basic set of accounts, e.g. those of a football club,  with a reasonable degree of confidence in my interpretation of the figures, although there remain a number of entries in a full set of accounts that are beyond me. I do have an "O" Grade in "Principles of Accounts" from 1971/72 though.   

 

If you can show me some evidence that what was presented in the RIFC statement includes loans within the revenue figure, then I will apologise unreservedly.

I have a degree that includes accounting, Scots Law, and economics yet I wouldn't dare comment on a set of accounts such as those that have been produced by Sevco and King. The fact that no accountancy firm is willing, or has even been asked, to sign off these figures is a red flag and so is the fact that a convicted felon is running the whole show.

 

These are not 'normal accounts' produced by a normal football club, they are accounts massaged and produced with caveats on virtually every line. The is a reason King was happy to be delisted and while having no NOMAD is held against King as a broken promise, which has it was, it is a situation that he is more than happy with as it allows him and his company to allow to operate without nearly as much restriction as they would see otherwise.

 

Commenting on these accounts is a foolhardy exercise as nothing, absolutely nothing, can be taken at face value.

[John Findlay]

I have a degree that includes accounting, Scots Law, and economics yet I wouldn't dare comment on a set of accounts such as those that have been produced by Sevco and King. The fact that no accountancy firm is willing, or has even been asked, to sign off these figures is a red flag and so is the fact that a convicted felon is running the whole show.

 

These are not 'normal accounts' produced by a normal football club, they are accounts massaged and produced with caveats on virtually every line. The is a reason King was happy to be delisted and while having no NOMAD is held against King as a broken promise, which has it was, it is a situation that he is more than happy with as it allows him and his company to allow to operate without nearly as much restriction as they would see otherwise.

 

Commenting on these accounts is a foolhardy exercise as nothing, absolutely nothing, can be taken at face value.

So Sevco and king are persona non grata with everyone apart from the SFA and SPFL?

[Malinga the Swinga]

Dear pot, love kettle

Dear Geoff, full of shit you are Kilpatrick.

[Footballfirst]

Looks like the dam may have broken.  Park, Gilligan and Murray have all stepped down from the TRFC Board

 

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/SC425159/filing-history

 

Edited March 27, 2017 by Footballfirst

[jambovambo]

Woo hoo !

 

Gloves off !

[buzzbomb1958]

These accounts are sevcos way of getting into European football nothing more nothing less,I would surmise if the lying king is still there the outcome will be no European football for the orcs

[Malinga the Swinga]

So Sevco and king are persona non grata with everyone apart from the SFA and SPFL?

Reckon King is persona non grata in his own house, in South Africa and everywhere apart from the newsrooms of Jim Whites backside and the Scottish media, with a couple of exceptions in Tom English and Jim Spence.

 

As for the finance world, there are loads of dodgy characters there, but they all have one thing in common. Dodgy characters do not like to invest their money, be it earned by fair means or foul, with convicted criminals who had to pay their way out of jail time and who have been described as a 'glib and shameless liar'. They like to invest out of the limelight, not in the full glare of prying eyes. The idea is to either clean or keep clean their investments, not see it thrown into the cesspit that is Sevco.

[Footballfirst]

Just checked the official site. There apperars to be some sort of an explanation there.

 

FOLLOWING a recent review, there have been some minor changes to Rangers? internal governance structures.

 

At the time that the previous board was removed, there was a dual reporting structure that duplicated non-executive director roles at the holding company (RIFC) and at the operating company (TRFC). This structure was not in accordance with best practice and appears to have been put in place by the previous board to accommodate the inability of Sandy Easdale to sit on the holding company board.

 

The TRFC operating board has now been fully functioning for some time and with the imminent appointment of a Director of Football the RIFC board believes that it is appropriate that the TRFC board continues to function independently of the RIFC board within the mandates and budgets set by RIFC.

 

Consequently, the non-executive directors appointed by RIFC to the TRFC board will now exercise their roles solely as non-executive directors of the holding company, RIFC. The executive management of the Club will then form the board of TRFC.

[graygo]

Looks like the dam may have broken.  Park, Gilligan and Murray have all stepped down from the TRFC Board

 

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/SC425159/filing-history

 

 

 

Edit: Already posted above.

Edited March 27, 2017 by graygo

[Malinga the Swinga]

Just checked the official site. There apperars to be some sort of an explanation there.

 

FOLLOWING a recent review, there have been some minor changes to Rangers? internal governance structures.

 

At the time that the previous board was removed, there was a dual reporting structure that duplicated non-executive director roles at the holding company (RIFC) and at the operating company (TRFC). This structure was not in accordance with best practice and appears to have been put in place by the previous board to accommodate the inability of Sandy Easdale to sit on the holding company board.

 

The TRFC operating board has now been fully functioning for some time and with the imminent appointment of a Director of Football the RIFC board believes that it is appropriate that the TRFC board continues to function independently of the RIFC board within the mandates and budgets set by RIFC.

 

Consequently, the non-executive directors appointed by RIFC to the TRFC board will now exercise their roles solely as non-executive directors of the holding company, RIFC. The executive management of the Club will then form the board of TRFC.

There is no point in trying to understand what they are up to because you cannot apply normal company logic to their situation. There is no company to compare them with, or at least no company of any reputable standing. Every single item released by Rangers/TRFC/RIFC/King has to be taken with a pince of salt until they to return to normal company governance and that is a long way from happening.

 

They remain a company that trades on and is dependant on bigotry and hatred of Catholics, which in the 21st century is a somewhat unbelievable ethos to have.

[Meadows]

That only leaves 2 on the club board now after those 3 move onto the company board. Musical chairs again.

Tidying the chairs on the titanic kinda job ?

[Footballfirst]

If I was a conspiracy theorist, the latest boardroom move could be a pre-cursor to closing down TRFC, but dressing it up as a solvent reconstruction (allowed under SFA articles).  The assets (including the team) would be taken under the control of RIFC, but any contracts held by TRFC would die as TRFC is dissolved.  RRL no more.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

If I was a conspiracy theorist, the latest boardroom move could be a pre-cursor to closing down TRFC, but dressing it up as a solvent reconstruction (allowed under SFA articles). The assets (including the team) would be taken under the control of RIFC, but any contracts held by TRFC would die as TRFC is dissolved. RRL no more.

Do they have the shareholder power to do that?

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Dear Geoff, full of shit you are Kilpatrick.

What an angry little man. Probably due to failure in other areas of life.

[Jambo-Fox]

They're leaving Glasgow, just heard the Rangers are moving to Las Vegas!!

 

Oops sorry - it's the Raiders!!

[Footballfirst]

Do they have the shareholder power to do that?

I don't know if that sort of change would require a 50%+1 or a 75%+1 vote.

 

It was just speculation on my part without knowing the applicable conditions.

[Hungry hippo]

They're leaving Glasgow, just heard the Rangers are moving to Las Vegas!!

 

Oops sorry - it's the Raiders!!

It could be rhyming slang for tax evaders.

[Sidsnot]

That only leaves 2 on the club board now after those 3 move onto the company board. Musical chairs again.

'Termination of appointment of Douglas Ireland Park as a director on 3 August 2015.'

Apparently,Park and Glib had an angry exchange between them last week,they've had arguments prior to this but it ended with Park saying he'd never put another penny in the Rangers coffers as long as he, King,was at Ibrox.

[269miles]

I get more annoyed when some smug know it all poster from thousands of miles away tries to act as if he is some sort of authority of what does and doesn't constitute fraud in Scotland.

 

Please do not ever presume you can tell me or any other Hearts supporter what should or should not annoy us.

Your posts , and the one that followed your retort above are in very poor taste. 

Instead of calling out posters like Farin , why don't you add your own "insight" .....I'm sure we'd all like to see your lightning analysis of the Sevco financial statement. But all we get is a cheap shot from a know nothing big mouth. 

 

As for your barbed statement to GK (actually, not someone I am a fan of , personally) ...you need to get on an anger management course. 

 

 

"I have a degree that includes accounting, Scots Law, and economics yet I wouldn't dare comment on a set of accounts"....

 

 

That's fine. But there are people who are prepared to offer something insightful. 

 

"I wouldn't dare..."

 

Stop being a drama queen.

Edited March 27, 2017 by 269miles

[jambovambo]

http://linkis.com/www.thenational.scot/Om6FH

 

King faces uncertain future

 

This article getting lots of kudos on twitter for facing some basic truths.

 

For once.

Edited March 28, 2017 by jambovambo

[John Findlay]

http://linkis.com/www.thenational.scot/Om6FH

 

King faces uncertain future

 

This article getting lots of kudos on twitter for facing some basic truths.

 

For once.

If the supreme Court decision is in favour of the HMFC. Then all we will get from 90% of the MSM. Is how everyone is out to get the Rangers/Sevco and they didn't do anything wrong and didn't chest. There will be no remorse. They don't do remorse.

 

The SFA and SPFL will be shown up ad the toothless useless organisations that they are.

 

Sir David Murray will plea his innocence through his media sycophants until the cows come home.

[Sidsnot]

I think this may well be the end for King, they've seen through him & prob aren't prepared to bankroll his share prospectus scheme. Maybe this is all designed to force him to fall on his sword before April 12th ?.

Yep,and I think this may see him quit for sure.

 

Apparently this is in The National newspaper.

 

 

The implications for Scottish football of the Supreme Court verdict on the Big Tax Case has gone mainstream with the first ever call for the Nimmo Smith Report to be binned and for Dave Murray to be stripped of his knighthood.

 

There are some strange anomalies in the article published by The National, such as the old club only benefiting from EBT?s since 2004 but it is a breakthrough to see a mainstream publication discussing a subject generally regarded as for bampots only.

 

The article even discusses the seriousness of the Takeover Appeal Board ruling for Dave King which was glossed over in last week?s pitch for season ticket money.

 

A two day appeal from BDO against HMRC over the big tax case was heard in the Supreme Court earlier this month after the tax scam used by Murray for over a decade had been judged illegal.

 

By paying stars like Barry Ferguson, Neil McCann, Nacho Novo, Alex Rae and Steven Thompson into offshore trusts Murray was able to bring in better players than his budget could afford with Her Majesty losing out.

 

That scam has now been exposed to a UK audience with The National admitting the sporting brutality of it?s use.

 

Today?s article explains: ?Firstly, it must be acknowledged that Rangers gained a massive financial and thus competitive advantage they were not legally entitled to, certainly after 2004.

 

?The current ownership has already acknowledged that by eventually paying, with reluctance, the ?250,000 fine imposed on it in 2013 by Lord Nimmo Smith?s Commission that investigated the EBT scheme and the ?side letters? which were blatantly against football rules.

 

?Secondly, that Nimmo Smith Commission must be recalled. The Commission acted ?on the basis that the EBT arrangements were lawful?, in its own words, but if HMRC wins, they won?t be lawful.

 

?After the HMRC warning on EBTs in 2004 up to 2011, a heavily-indebted Rangers won four SPL titles, two Scottish Cups and four Scottish League Cups with players and staff they couldn?t otherwise have afforded.

 

?If the taxman wins, the Nimmo Smith Commission must think again and, yes, take those titles and cups away from Rangers? history because the club cheated.

 

?Thirdly, for operating an unlawful tax scheme for years inside Rangers and other companies, Sir David Murray should be stripped of his honour.?

 

Every match that Rangers played featuring Ronald de Boer or Tore Andre Flo, signed in 2000 with no details of their payments into the Discounted Option Scheme declared to the SPL and SFA should be declared a 3-0 defeat.

 

From 2002 onwards players were being paid through EBT?s that weren?t declared in the contracts sent to the SFA.

 

Other clubs have been kicked out of cup competitions or had results changed to 0-3 defeats for minor regulation mistakes. Not Rangers.

 

Various supporter groups are ready to repeat the actions of 2012 to ensure that Nimmo Smith is revisited if the Supreme Court rejects the appeal against HMRC.

 

Nimmo Smith should have found Rangers guilty on account of not declaring payments to the football authorities but declared that no advantage had been gained since the scam was available to other clubs.

 

Once the scam is confirmed as illegal pressure will grow on the SFA and SPFL to apply the rules to the matches involving Rangers fielding players recruited on the promise of EBT payments.

[Sidsnot]

Sorry,forgot to post the full,link.

http://www.thenational.scot/sport/15185383.Opinion__Dave_King_facing_an_uncertain_Ibrox_future/?ref=mr&lp=1

[The Future's Maroon]

Sorry,forgot to post the full,link.

http://www.thenational.scot/sport/15185383.Opinion__Dave_King_facing_an_uncertain_Ibrox_future/?ref=mr&lp=1

It was posted, just two posts before yours.

[Mikey1874]

I really don't see any chance or desire to revisit Rangers' footballing status or past decisions.

 

The European place could be interesting but that will largely be between SFA and Rangers. Maybe SFA might ask Rangers to gracefully withdraw.

 

Well done to The National though they are a bit away from being mainstream yet.

[Sidsnot]

It was posted, just two posts before yours.

Saw that,it took me to a linkis page and only showed a partial part of the story.

Edited March 28, 2017 by Sidsnot

[Lincon Premier]

The directors resigning looks to me ( total know nothing ) like they are breaking away from the football club, so that when the shit hits the fan they can say the club will carry on and it's the holding company that is in trouble. Had they stayed on the football board they would have a link to both and the club would also fold. Looking out for Ranger III in the every near future.

[Lincon Premier]

There is no point in trying to understand what they are up to because you cannot apply normal company logic to their situation. There is no company to compare them with, or at least no company of any reputable standing. Every single item released by Rangers/TRFC/RIFC/King has to be taken with a pince of salt until they to return to normal company governance and that is a long way from happening.

 

They remain a company that trades on and is dependant on bigotry and hatred of Catholics, which in the 21st century is a somewhat unbelievable ethos to have.

MtS, football first may not be qualified to comment ( and according to you stupid to do so )  but for many on here his insights are most welcome. His comments don't influence anything out with this board, so anything he posts is helpful to those of us who can't read an accounts statement. It's true no professional body will take on the figures but they have a reputation to up hold so without FF we would be left with the daily radar for an even more confusing insight into what is going on.

 

Sorry I think I used the wrong quote but you get my drift.

Edited March 28, 2017 by Lincon Premier

[Diadora Van Basten]

Yep,and I think this may see him quit for sure.

 

Apparently this is in The National newspaper.

 

 

The implications for Scottish football of the Supreme Court verdict on the Big Tax Case has gone mainstream with the first ever call for the Nimmo Smith Report to be binned and for Dave Murray to be stripped of his knighthood.

 

There are some strange anomalies in the article published by The National, such as the old club only benefiting from EBT?s since 2004 but it is a breakthrough to see a mainstream publication discussing a subject generally regarded as for bampots only.

 

The article even discusses the seriousness of the Takeover Appeal Board ruling for Dave King which was glossed over in last week?s pitch for season ticket money.

 

A two day appeal from BDO against HMRC over the big tax case was heard in the Supreme Court earlier this month after the tax scam used by Murray for over a decade had been judged illegal.

 

By paying stars like Barry Ferguson, Neil McCann, Nacho Novo, Alex Rae and Steven Thompson into offshore trusts Murray was able to bring in better players than his budget could afford with Her Majesty losing out.

 

That scam has now been exposed to a UK audience with The National admitting the sporting brutality of it?s use.

 

Today?s article explains: ?Firstly, it must be acknowledged that Rangers gained a massive financial and thus competitive advantage they were not legally entitled to, certainly after 2004.

 

?The current ownership has already acknowledged that by eventually paying, with reluctance, the ?250,000 fine imposed on it in 2013 by Lord Nimmo Smith?s Commission that investigated the EBT scheme and the ?side letters? which were blatantly against football rules.

 

?Secondly, that Nimmo Smith Commission must be recalled. The Commission acted ?on the basis that the EBT arrangements were lawful?, in its own words, but if HMRC wins, they won?t be lawful.

 

?After the HMRC warning on EBTs in 2004 up to 2011, a heavily-indebted Rangers won four SPL titles, two Scottish Cups and four Scottish League Cups with players and staff they couldn?t otherwise have afforded.

 

?If the taxman wins, the Nimmo Smith Commission must think again and, yes, take those titles and cups away from Rangers? history because the club cheated.

 

?Thirdly, for operating an unlawful tax scheme for years inside Rangers and other companies, Sir David Murray should be stripped of his honour.?

 

Every match that Rangers played featuring Ronald de Boer or Tore Andre Flo, signed in 2000 with no details of their payments into the Discounted Option Scheme declared to the SPL and SFA should be declared a 3-0 defeat.

 

From 2002 onwards players were being paid through EBT?s that weren?t declared in the contracts sent to the SFA.

 

Other clubs have been kicked out of cup competitions or had results changed to 0-3 defeats for minor regulation mistakes. Not Rangers.

 

Various supporter groups are ready to repeat the actions of 2012 to ensure that Nimmo Smith is revisited if the Supreme Court rejects the appeal against HMRC.

 

Nimmo Smith should have found Rangers guilty on account of not declaring payments to the football authorities but declared that no advantage had been gained since the scam was available to other clubs.

 

Once the scam is confirmed as illegal pressure will grow on the SFA and SPFL to apply the rules to the matches involving Rangers fielding players recruited on the promise of EBT payments.

I imagine that Stuart Regan will read this decide that it's written by a Celtic fan and have a good chuckle at those crazy Scots fans.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

The directors resigning looks to me ( total know nothing ) like they are breaking away from the football club, so that when the shit hits the fan they can say the club will carry on and it's the holding company that is in trouble. Had they stayed on the football board they would have a link to both and the club would also fold. Looking out for Ranger III in the every near future.

 

If this were to happen, then surely the laws would need to be tightened up or everybody would just set up a holding company, load it with debts and just walk away with little to no penalties to the club.

[doctor jambo]

If this were to happen, then surely the laws would need to be tightened up or everybody would just set up a holding company, load it with debts and just walk away with little to no penalties to the club.

Pretty much what happened to BHS. ITs not illegal , just wrong

[Sidsnot]

I imagine that Stuart Regan will read this decide that it's written by a Celtic fan and have a good chuckle at those crazy Scots fans.

Martin Hannon was the guy who put it together,surprised at that as I always took him to be Rangers friendly.

[itsnomarooned]

In dealing with the Takeover Panel it is essential that it is done so in an honest, open and co-operative way. If these requisites are not forthcoming the Panel have been known to exercise what is known as ?The Cold Shoulder?. Essentially this is given to individuals who lie systematically to the panel. It basically means that the individual (Mr King) could effectively be banned from dealing with any Financial Conduct Authority (FCA) regulated business. This encompasses a huge range including banks, brokers etc. Whilst it has only been used twice previously it would seem on the surface that Mr King may perhaps be the third.

 

Any idea on the previous occasions this was used? Might give us some slight insight as to any similarities and the chance he might be cold shouldered.

[jambovambo]

Martin Hannon was the guy who put it together,surprised at that as I always took him to be Rangers friendly.

Hope he knows a good glazier.

[Lincon Premier]

Found this about the ToP.

http://www.thetakeoverpanel.org.uk/the-code/compliance/cold-shouldering

 

Any failure to carry out the ToP's verdict will see him 'persona non grata'. Banks, financial advisors etc will be instructed not to deal with him. It would slam the door shut on any thoughts of a nomad & listing as long as he's involved with them too. Sevco would be seen as a pariah in the city ..

 

Serious stuff for them if king decides he can ignore having an offer to buy existing shares

Banks and financial institutions have nothing to do with them anyway, so I can't see this hurting them much. Had the ruling included the others then they may well feel the hit, but The Lying King in SA couldn't give a sook.

[davieholt]

If this were to happen, then surely the laws would need to be tightened up or everybody would just set up a holding company, load it with debts and just walk away with little to no penalties to the club.

 

This confuses me. If the parent company collapses, surely the liquidator will be looking for the millions lent by the parent to the football club to be repaid for the benefit of creditors?

 

Or am I reading it all wrong?

[May one-six]

Martin Hannon was the guy who put it together,surprised at that as I always took him to be Rangers friendly.

Martin Hannan is an out an out Celtic fan.

[doctor jambo]

This confuses me. If the parent company collapses, surely the liquidator will be looking for the millions lent by the parent to the football club to be repaid for the benefit of creditors?

 

Or am I reading it all wrong?

The directors are the creditors- so they can collapse it and repay themselves as they have first dibs on the assets.

Last time they failed because HMRC was the biggest so killed it all dead

[jambovambo]

That article sums up why this thread continues after five years.

[IveSeenTheLight]

This confuses me. If the parent company collapses, surely the liquidator will be looking for the millions lent by the parent to the football club to be repaid for the benefit of creditors?

 

Or am I reading it all wrong?

 

Where are the deeds?

[Meadows]

I for one hope football first continues to give us his insight and thoughts on all things Sevco , it makes life easier for the hard of understanding like myself .

[john5698]

I for one hope football first continues to give us his insight and thoughts on all things Sevco , it makes life easier for the hard of understanding like myself .

Most definitely agree with this.

[davieholt]

The directors are the creditors- so they can collapse it and repay themselves as they have first dibs on the assets.

Last time they failed because HMRC was the biggest so killed it all dead

 

Sure, the directors are the creditors but where do they get the cash to repay themselves? and what assets other than the money owed by the club?

[alicante jambo]

If it wasnt for FF id still be on page 1

[doctor jambo]

Sure, the directors are the creditors but where do they get the cash to repay themselves? and what assets other than the money owed by the club?

They don't- they take control of the assets - the big hoose and so on, and shed the onerous contracts

[davieholt]

They don't- they take control of the assets - the big hoose and so on, and shed the onerous contracts

 

I've lost the plot. I believed that the contract was between Rangers Retail and RFC (not the holding company). If this is true (a big if!) then the holding company going down the tubes would not affect the deal. The onerous contract would still exist? No?

[1971fozzy]

I for one hope football first continues to give us his insight and thoughts on all things Sevco , it makes life easier for the hard of understanding like myself .

Absolutely

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Mikey1874]

Mike Ashley still in the background

 

With thoughts on involvement and revenge