Lincon Premier Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 The problem for the directors if the rumours are true, is there are sever penalties if they are trading under false pretenses ( while insolvent ). The penalties include jail time. If they are propping up the wages, and there has been no denial from Level 5, then they are walking a thin line. They may well struggle onto the season ticket money, but by the time they pay back the soft loans, there won't be any cash for next season and the same problems will recur, only earlier. So admin this season or next is a distinct possibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drumelzier Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 If admin 2 comes about would Warburton/Weir/McParland still be able to pursue them through the courts for wrongful dismissal ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfirst Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 If admin 2 comes about would Warburton/Weir/McParland still be able to pursue them through the courts for wrongful dismissal ? Yes. Although, if successful, they could just end up as creditors of the club and only receive an xx pence in the ?1 dividend from any administration. However, they would also be deemed as football creditors in terms of the SFA/SPFL rules, so it would be likely that those rules would ensure that they would eventually be paid off in full. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drumelzier Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 Yes. Although, if successful, they could just end up as creditors of the club and only receive an xx pence in the ?1 dividend from any administration. However, they would also be deemed as football creditors in terms of the SFA/SPFL rules, so it would be likely that those rules would ensure that they would eventually be paid off in full. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 So when can we expect rumour #139? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobboM Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 Postponed indefinitely, Hmrc v Rfc (I.L) at the Supreme Court is listed for the 15th March. Beware the Ides of March .... unless there's just another postponement ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamboz Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 It always amazes me that seemingly intelligent and shrewd business people often leave their brains behind when they become involved with a football ream. Perhaps the Park family liked the publicity and initial adulation they got from the ibrox hoards and failed to see they were being led on by a certain Mr King. I am absolutely sure they would not be pouring money into any other part of their business empire without severe due diligence and the hope of returning a profit on their investment. I can't remember who said it but the question was "how do you become a millionaire becoming involved with a football team?" and the answer is "be a billionaire when you become involved." Many a true word. How do you make a small fortune with a football club? Start with a large fortune Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hagar the Horrible Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 The problem for the directors if the rumours are true, is there are sever penalties if they are trading under false pretenses ( while insolvent ). The penalties include jail time. If they are propping up the wages, and there has been no denial from Level 5, then they are walking a thin line. They may well struggle onto the season ticket money, but by the time they pay back the soft loans, there won't be any cash for next season and the same problems will recur, only earlier. So admin this season or next is a distinct possibility. The thing is? I am not sure but trading in this manner is about trading of shares on a stock exchange while insolvent... so no authorities care?, trading is still something they cannot do, as nobody will touch them because King is a convicted fellon. Also no bank will touch them yet, despite a company with now what a ?25m turn over? and historically had a ?75m turnover getting a soft loan from a director as far as a company is concerned is better on the books than a hard loan from a bank or a third party, who may call it in? so far nobody is taking them to court all debts are being paid even to the facepainters, the players wages are despite rumours being paid. however it is clear that they are living hand to mouth and beyond their means still trying to keep up a facade that they are still the big I AM's, What is in dispute is how much is actually their shortfall? how much of this ?30m warchest (kids inheritance) did come from King? Rignt now they are still looking at Celtic, while in reality they have to still spend more just to keep up with us and the sheep, they would need to fluke a league title and get past the group stages of the CL, all with guys the standard of their best players....Miller, Wallace and Hill. in reality they have a top six squad...nothing wrong with thinking big, but the gazillions required are way out of KIngs league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie1874 Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 Hope their is no admin event. Happy to see them limp along for years to come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeftBack Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 Heard a rumour last night that Dundee United could be next club to go into admin. That wouldnt be a huge surprise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kila Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 Some predictions: Rangers 3.0 but admin announced post split Dundee merger (Dundee City?) and new stadium Bigger top flight for 18/19 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hagar the Horrible Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 Some predictions: Rangers 3.0 but admin announced post split Dundee merger (Dundee City?) and new stadium Bigger top flight for 18/19 I dont do predictions I never have and I never will:-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deevers Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 Love all this stuff about "Celtic Mindedness" being the reason for all the rumouring about financial difficulties at Ibrox. I was through west yesterday and speaking to someone who is a business man, a shareholder in them, regularly uses their corporate stuff, and who is seriously worried about their financial state. No smoke without fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malinga the Swinga Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 Heard a rumour last night that Dundee United could be next club to go into admin. That wouldnt be a huge surprise. The rumour started with Johnjames site. He/she is claiming that United players have already been told that they will enter administration in next two weeks. Who knows if it is true or not, but they are certainly finished as force for foreseeable future, regardless of admin or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Dan Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 (edited) How does this play out if Sevco wait till the Split, play their first game then go into administration (being that they should be in admin now) How does the SPFL/SFA apply any points deduction? Edited March 1, 2017 by Dannie Boy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malinga the Swinga Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 How does this play out if Sevco wait till the Split, play their first game then go into administration (being that they should be in admin now) How does the SPFL/SFA apply any points deduction?. I wouldn't worry about it. Experts on here have already assured us that their club, sorry Sevco, will not have an admin event as King and co will not let it happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milky_26 Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 How does this play out if Sevco wait till the Split, play their first game then go into administration (being that they should be in admin now) How does the SPFL/SFA apply any points deduction? they most likely will use the "boards discretion" part of the rules to help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kila Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 Bets on whether they can hold off admin until the split. Mon 20th April a while away! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alwaysthereinspirit Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 How does this play out if Sevco wait till the Split, play their first game then go into administration (being that they should be in admin now) How does the SPFL/SFA apply any points deduction?I would imagine Newco will draft some kind of proposal that will be given to the SPFL/GFA to be read out on behalf of Newco. We'll all then just get back to normal by bending over seconds after its reading. Its a win/win for everyone we'll be told. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seymour M Hersh Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 I would imagine Newco will draft some kind of proposal that will be given to the SPFL/GFA to be read out on behalf of Newco. We'll all then just get back to normal by bending over seconds after its reading. Its a win/win for everyone we'll be told. Indeed, social unrest and armageddon avoided once again by Doncaster's swift intervention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CavySlaveJambo Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 What still annoys me is that despite Oldco going into liquidation and the problems that ensued from it, the SFA still have not adopted a policy in respect to clubs entering administration and the non-acceptance of a CVA by creditors leading to liquidation , i.e. a ruling in respect to "phoenix" clubs. The EFA have such a policy in place to cover "phoenix" clubs which has seen clubs like Darlington, Chester and Halifax being reborn as new clubs and having to enter the pyramid at Northern Premier League Div 1 North level, which is 4 levels below League 2 Add in Rushden and Diamonds and Hereford. That is the highest. It all depends on the club and the "Golden Share". Also at the time the above all folded they were in the conference so even with a CVA they would have been relegated to that level. Like Kettering were. Also Darlington (due to iregularities with their golden share) and Hereford started at level 9, Rushden and Diamonds started at level 10. Should they wait until after the split, then the split should be looked at in future - that would be a scandal if you could limp to that , get penalised and still finnish top 6 and get the money due from that.What is the rule on -25 points vs -15 points. If Administration does happen, After the split it is still less than 5 years since oldco were in admisistration. I'd have thought limping on to the summer may be the best idea to eliminate the risk of -25 points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IveSeenTheLight Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 What is the rule on -25 points vs -15 points. If Administration does happen, After the split it is still less than 5 years since oldco were in admisistration. I'd have thought limping on to the summer may be the best idea to eliminate the risk of -25 points. I'm sure SevCo might then state they are a new team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonhertz Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 Wouldn't wish it on anyone apart from The OF and Hibs Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk exactly and maybe st mirren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjcc Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 exactly and maybe st mirren I'm happy enough with St Mirren bobbling around the lower leagues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lincon Premier Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 The problem is the holding company maybe the one to go for admin and the GFA and Orcs would claim the club is fine ,whereas we all know it's the club that is skint. They would need another company to buy the assets of the holding company and start again. The GFA would back them and the merry go round goes on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo-Jimbo Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 Love all this stuff about "Celtic Mindedness" being the reason for all the rumouring about financial difficulties at Ibrox. I was through west yesterday and speaking to someone who is a business man, a shareholder in them, regularly uses their corporate stuff, and who is seriously worried about their financial state. No smoke without fire. Despite your friend being a shareholder in Rangers and a regular attendee at games etc, he'll have no doubts been reading Celtic Minded Websites and bloggers, because isn't that what everybody does all the time, spend their time on Celtic Minded Websites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CollyWolly Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 (edited) Heard a rumour last night that Dundee United could be next club to go into admin. That wouldnt be a huge surprise. No chance surely ? They are only ?1.5 million debt and they are a shoe in for the play offs still. If they go into admin its an ownership ploy of some kind you'd have thought and you wouldn't put it past Thomson to be up to something underhanded. Edited March 1, 2017 by CollyWolly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DETTY29 Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 I think Southampton tried that in England (and Coventry) but the FA deemed that the Holding Companies were specifically there to support the football clubs. From Uefa down, individual FAs rules cover this. The problem is the holding company maybe the one to go for admin and the GFA and Orcs would claim the club is fine ,whereas we all know it's the club that is skint. They would need another company to buy the assets of the holding company and start again. The GFA would back them and the merry go round goes on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 I think Southampton tried that in England (and Coventry) but the FA deemed that the Holding Companies were specifically there to support the football clubs. From Uefa down, individual FAs rules cover this. Leeds United tried it Ended up getting two separate points penalties and rules were changed / tightened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 Leeds United tried it Ended up getting two separate points penalties and rules were changed / tightened. I don't know the rules in England, but in Scotland if the holding company's only business is the football club, it would be counted as administration for the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheile Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 Indeed, an HMRC victory would be quite something though.. Hector still has his beady eyes on Sevco I'm hearing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hectornicol Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 Despite your friend being a shareholder in Rangers and a regular attendee at games etc, he'll have no doubts been reading Celtic Minded Websites and bloggers, because isn't that what everybody does all the time, spend their time on Celtic Minded Websites. Can you point me in the direction of one of these sites that I have to quote from in future, therfore to prove a certain contributor to this thread, is in fact correct and the rest of us are all wrong! In a Celtic minded way naturally! JD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hectornicol Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 Hector still has his beady eyes on Sevco I'm hearing. That's no me! It's the other Hector Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo-Jimbo Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 Can you point me in the direction of one of these sites that I have to quote from in future, therfore to prove a certain contributor to this thread, is in fact correct and the rest of us are all wrong! In a Celtic minded way naturally! JD Sorry I haven't a clue mate, however a certain poster might know because to accuse us of repeating rumours from Celtic websites, he'd have to know what those websites were saying in the first place, wouldn't he. Think about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
...a bit disco Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 Can you point me in the direction of one of these sites that I have to quote from in future, therfore to prove a certain contributor to this thread, is in fact correct and the rest of us are all wrong! In a Celtic minded way naturally! JD Discovered today there is actually a website called Celticminded.com. That should suit our purposes I feel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfirst Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 https://stv.tv/news/west-central/1382098-rangers-to-pay-charles-green-and-mike-ashley-s-legal-fees/ Rangers will have to pay the legal bills of former chief executive Charles Green and billionaire businessman Mike Ashley after the club halted a legal action. Lawyers for Rangers attended the Court of Session in Edinburgh because the club?s current owners object to a 2012 deal which allowed Mr Ashley?s Sports Direct to have the ?naming rights? to Ibrox Stadium. The club?s legal team alleges former directors Charles Green, Imran Ahmad, Brian Stockbridge and Derek Llambias acted negligently during their time at the club. Rangers believe the men did not act in the business? best interests when they negotiated commercial deals with Sports Direct. The deals the club are objecting to include an October 2012 agreement in which the directors allowed Sports Direct to have the ?naming rights? to Ibrox stadium. Rangers believe the naming rights were given to Sports Direct at a price well below their true market value. On Thursday, lawyers acting for Rangers went to Scotland?s highest court in a bid to recover documents from Mr Green, Mr Ahmad, Mr Stockbridge, Mr Llambias, Sports Direct and Mr Ashley. They believe the recovery of the documents would help their case against those involved in the deal. During a two-hour hearing, lawyers acting for Rangers tried to amend the legal document which detailed what they wanted to recover. The advocates representing Mr Green, Mr Ahmad, Mr Stockbridge, Mr Llambias, Sports Direct and Mr Ashley objected to the proposed changes. They argued they needed time to consult their clients about the amended proposals. This prompted lawyers acting for Rangers to withdraw the proposed amendments and stop the bid to recover the documents. Lawyers acting for the defenders in the case then asked the court for Rangers to pay their legal costs for the hearing as Thursday?s proceedings were ?unnecessary?. Judge Lord Brailsford agreed with the submissions made by the lawyers appearing for the five men and Sports Direct. He added: ?Today?s hearing has been unnecessary and I award each of the defenders their expenses.? It is not known how much the Glasgow side will have to pay for Thursday?s hearing. It is thought to be several thousands of pounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Dan Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 Sevco have no money. It's becoming more obvious by the day. I've no idea how much these legal bills will be but it will hurt badly. Add any settlement to the recent sackings and IMO it will be north of a ?1m. That amount would hurt any business no matter how well off they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lincon Premier Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 You can bet that MA at least had a QC present and they charge upwards of 5 grand an hour. ( from 2006 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-401488/Britains-lawyers-charge-staggering-5-000-hour.html ) Then you have the cost of junior barristers doing the hard work in the office, so it's not just the court time they will have to pay for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzzbomb1958 Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 No one will find out how much it's gonna cost like everything else at that club they'll put a spin on it hell they will probably tell their thick fans they've made a profit from it and they'll believe the shysters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo-Jimbo Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 So they went to court for the recovery of documents which they then realised were off no real use to them and then tried to change what they wanted and basically got laughed out of court, thousands of pounds the poorer, sevco the gift that keeps on giving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfirst Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 It will just be the equivalent of a week's wages for their Management team ........... oops I forgot they don't have one at the moment............ no loss then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Of The Cat Cafe Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 Ashley bought the stadium naming rights for ?1, now claimed by sevco to be worth ?500k per year. They hope to recover ?4m and have the marketing deal with S.D. declared void. Ashley (the billionaire) isn't about to roll over & let this happen. [emoji1] I am beginning to think MA is not all bad... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJGJ Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 He's also just bought the Agent Provocateur chain who were in administration. [emoji4] Sleazenger brand will become the norm then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alwaysthereinspirit Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 Sleazenger brand will become the norm thenOne mans sleaze is another mans tease. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldar Hadzimehmedovic Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Grimes Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 Have to say, I'm sceptical they'll end up back in administration but these little losses can't help. Maybe it'll be death by a thousand cuts after all. (Or maybe thats short a letter). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambo1961 Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 Great watching Rangers suffer but I cant help but despise Ashley ....like Rangers just rotten to the core I hope both keel over and soon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzzbomb1958 Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 Never mind new Portuguese manager coming in wonder if he will resign or will lying king just say he has Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paolo Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 Great watching Rangers suffer but I cant help but despise Ashley ....like Rangers just rotten to the core I hope both keel over and soon I despise Ashley too, because if it wasn't for him, they would be even more up shit creek. The arsehole support thought because of who they were, Ashley should give money and loans, for no return. I wish he told them to feck off then at that point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambo1961 Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 I despise Ashley too, because if it wasn't for him, they would be even more up shit creek. The arsehole support thought because of who they were, Ashley should give money and loans, for no return. I wish he told them to feck off then at that point. Fair point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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