The Rangers soap opera goes on and on.

[Spellczech]

In my opinion, they deserved a big tax case and a liquidation / bankruptcy. Stripping titles just seems insincere to me. We have Abramovichs gaining billions from bribes and pooring into football, Mansours torturing business partners and common citizens to solidify financial power, heck, Romanovs robbing poor Lithuanian persioners of their bank savings and then spending on football. Rangers situation is different formally, since their owner went and involved them directly into his financial crimes, while others used third companies, but practical result is the same, football teams constantly get doped by dirty money.

 

So I'd rather just leave it to the government deal with it and punish people and companies for crimes. I wouldn't want football leagues to strip any titles. Sure, there's a formal uniqueness to the Rangers situation, but ultimately lots of teams use dirty money to get players that they couldn't afford without dirty money.

agreed, remember Dundee has some sort of war criminal's lawyer's money or something...I only want Rangers stripped of the titles, just to annoy their fans who think they still have entitlement to claim the history of Oldco for Newco. Those titles are tainted whether they are formally taken away or not. Let the players keep their medals and money, but take the club's Duff and Phelps money and titles, he'll, just for the fun of it.

[Guest Bilel Mohsni]

Back page of The S**,Mike Ashley to sue the SFA for claiming TGASL was a fit and proper person.

Hope Ashley brings the whole shooting match down. A clear out at the SFA and SPFL would be a better result than any I had hoped for when all this blew up. What I'll never understand is how all these men at the governing bodies have been so keen to help them every step of the way, often at risk to their own reputation, while all they have had in return from the Rangers fans and employees is abuse and threats.

[Spellczech]

I just don't know nearly enough about UK taxes to have an opinion about that side. It did seem like it wasn't a clearcut case, just considering that different judges came to different conclusions. But like I said, not enough know how for me to judge.

Those are just the latest Rangers fans reasons for claiming they should get to keep titles. Nimmo Smith said stuff along these lines. All utter tosh of course and you wonder how he felt he could judge sporting integrity using the famously blunt tool of the "legal mind"

[Guest Bilel Mohsni]

agreed, remember Dundee has some sort of war criminal's lawyer's money or something...I only want Rangers stripped of the titles, just to annoy their fans who think they still have entitlement to claim the history of Oldco for Newco. Those titles are tainted whether they are formally taken away or not. Let the players keep their medals and money, but take the club's Duff and Phelps money and titles, he'll, just for the fun of it.

Giovanni Di Stefano? Some guy he was.

[Bazzas right boot]

Gretna- Scottish Cup 2006

Hibernian - Scottish Cup 2012

 

Just saying like.

Not the same.

 

Hearts were financialy mismanaged, in the extreme, however did not break any laws.

Rangers have broken the law.

Big difference.

 

Any business could end up in hearts situation, any club even in a few million debt would be unable to pay if the creditors asked for it.

 

Also bare in mind the bank went into administration first then wanted all money's due. If they hadn't gone pop we would probably still be paying the loans now.

 

Really is not the same, not even close.

Edited November 11, 2015 by hotcurrie

[Hartford]

agreed, remember Dundee has some sort of war criminal's lawyer's money or something...I only want Rangers stripped of the titles, just to annoy their fans who think they still have entitlement to claim the history of Oldco for Newco. Those titles are tainted whether they are formally taken away or not. Let the players keep their medals and money, but take the club's Duff and Phelps money and titles, he'll, just for the fun of it.

 

Hehe. Yep, the after drama would be entertaining. Rangers over the last few years are like a perfect reality TV show, so much drama on a regular schedule. 

Edited November 11, 2015 by Hartford

[Footballfirst]

SunSport can reveal that the tycoon has demanded a full judicial inquiry into the decision by the beaks to pass Dave King as a fit and proper person.

The bombshell news comes just a week after the Sports Direct supremo launched a legal move to have the Gers chairman jailed.

The case, to be heard at Edinburgh?s Court of Session, is scheduled for a first hearing on Friday, December 11.

It could eventually lead to the original decision being overturned by the sitting judge.

Ashley is understood to have served legal papers last month calling for a review of the SFA ruling handed down on May 19.

He wants to examine the process Hampden?s hierarchy went through before clearing King.

Seething Gers fans will view the MASH Holdings v SFA case as a clear attempt to further disrupt the rebuilding process at the crisis-torn club.

King was able to take up the role of Ibrox chairman when he was passed fit and proper by the SFA.

Just two months before May?s ruling, he had led a successful bid to oust the previous regime.

However, the game?s governing body still needed time to assess the businessman?s suitability given his tax convictions in South Africa.

The fact he?d sat on the Light Blues? board prior to their administration in 2012 was also considered by Hampden chiefs. At the time, the SFA consulted the relevant authorities in South Africa and Scotland, including the police, South African Revenue Services and HMRC, before allowing King to become chairman.

But that hasn?t satisfied Ashley, who has declared all-out war on King and his board.

The petition will already be in the hands of the SFA. Judicial reviews generally look into whether processes behind decisions made by public and private bodies are legal and fair.

It promises to be another messy affair in this never-ending saga with Ashley also dragging King through the courts.

Their feud exploded publicly last week as King insisted the costly legal fight against Sports Direct would continue.

Ashley?s lawyers then argued King breached a gagging order ? obtained by the Sports Direct chief in June ? in an interview with Sky Sports? Jim White.

The latest twist comes less than a week after HMRC, at the third time of asking, won their appeal in the ?Big Tax Case? and Gers? annual report confirmed they need an additional ?2.5m to survive the season.

Edited November 11, 2015 by Footballfirst

[hmfcfanyul]

 

 

"Rangers fans will just look at this new ruling and say "well it's still 2-1 to us so we're still ahead after three rounds"......."

But do away courts count double? Seriously, whats the climate like on their planet?

 

 

Sent from my SM-T530NU using Tapatalk

[Jodami]

SunSport can reveal that the tycoon has demanded a full judicial inquiry into the decision by the beaks to pass Dave King as a fit and proper person.

The bombshell news comes just a week after the Sports Direct supremo launched a legal move to have the Gers chairman jailed.

The case, to be heard at Edinburgh?s Court of Session, is scheduled for a first hearing on Friday, December 11.

It could eventually lead to the original decision being overturned by the sitting judge.

Ashley is understood to have served legal papers last month calling for a review of the SFA ruling handed down on May 19.

He wants to examine the process Hampden?s hierarchy went through before clearing King.

Seething Gers fans will view the MASH Holdings v SFA case as a clear attempt to further disrupt the rebuilding process at the crisis-torn club.

King was able to take up the role of Ibrox chairman when he was passed fit and proper by the SFA.

Just two months before May?s ruling, he had led a successful bid to oust the previous regime.

However, the game?s governing body still needed time to assess the businessman?s suitability given his tax convictions in South Africa.

The fact he?d sat on the Light Blues? board prior to their administration in 2012 was also considered by Hampden chiefs. At the time, the SFA consulted the relevant authorities in South Africa and Scotland, including the police, South African Revenue Services and HMRC, before allowing King to become chairman.

But that hasn?t satisfied Ashley, who has declared all-out war on King and his board.

The petition will already be in the hands of the SFA. Judicial reviews generally look into whether processes behind decisions made by public and private bodies are legal and fair.

It promises to be another messy affair in this never-ending saga with Ashley also dragging King through the courts.

Their feud exploded publicly last week as King insisted the costly legal fight against Sports Direct would continue.

Ashley?s lawyers then argued King breached a gagging order ? obtained by the Sports Direct chief in June ? in an interview with Sky Sports? Jim White.

The latest twist comes less than a week after HMRC, at the third time of asking, won their appeal in the ?Big Tax Case? and Gers? annual report confirmed they need an additional ?2.5m to survive the season.

Ashley's legal team examining the SFA's decision making in a public court of law, now that will be worth seeing!

Still not sure what his overall end game really is here but this tactic of using lawyers to surgically remove each spider's leg individually is dissection porn.

[Big Slim Stylee]

For the UK, yes.  But why's it any different when there's deliberate fraud on a massive scale outside the UK jurisdiction?  We can't claim we didn't know. Of course we did.  I still would rather the whole thing went away and we got on with life.  I don't like this "title stripping" at all.  I'm happy for them to dig their own graves again and again which they seem to be doing effortlessly well.  If they can scrape through, it will seriously take them years to persuade and acquire the quality of players they'll need to dominate Scottish football.  Without overspending massively again:)

 

You all just go "ahem whatever".  I genuinely fail to see the difference, here.  It's legal semantics.  We all lived way beyond our means,  Even before him we were a basket case. We all fecked taxpayers/investors/banks over.  Why single Rangers out? I see no difference,tbh.  Can someone please point out why Romanov's financial tenure was somehow "different" from what Murray and multiple EPL clubs did?  It was a disgrace all round.  Understandable but a mess.  

 

Why don't we all just concentrate on trying to make Scottish football viable again?

Edited November 11, 2015 by Big Slim Stylee

[DETTY29]

Hope Ashley brings the whole shooting match down. A clear out at the SFA and SPFL would be a better result than any I had hoped for when all this blew up. What I'll never understand is how all these men at the governing bodies have been so keen to help them every step of the way, often at risk to their own reputation, while all they have had in return from the Rangers fans and employees is abuse and threats.

Be careful what we wish for.

 

Did Ann Budge vote to add Andrew Dickson on to the SPFL 'ethics' committee?

 

If I was Ashley, I'd be going after Dickson and the SPFL at some point too.

 

Well he can afford it.....

Edited November 11, 2015 by DETTY29

[reaths17]

You all just go "ahem whatever".  I genuinely fail to see the difference, here.  It's legal semantics.  We all lived way beyond our means,  Even before him we were a basket case. We all fecked taxpayers/investors/banks over.  Why single Rangers out? I see no difference,tbh.  Can someone please point out why Romanov's financial tenure was somehow "different" from what Murray and multiple EPL clubs did?  It was a disgrace all round.  Understandable but a mess.  

 

Why don't we all just concentrate on trying to make Scottish football viable again?

replying to your own posts is so hunnish, you cheated and should face up to the consiquences, deal with it.

[Unknown user]

You all just go "ahem whatever". I genuinely fail to see the difference, here. It's legal semantics. We all lived way beyond our means, Even before him we were a basket case. We all fecked taxpayers/investors/banks over. Why single Rangers out? I see no difference,tbh. Can someone please point out why Romanov's financial tenure was somehow "different" from what Murray and multiple EPL clubs did? It was a disgrace all round. Understandable but a mess.

 

Why don't we all just concentrate on trying to make Scottish football viable again?

Yes, he "allegedly" acted in a deliberately fraudulent manner in order to give rangers enough of an advantage to dominate Scottish football, with all sorts of negative consequences, both short and long term.

Don't forget the side letters and the shredders. They were at it, and they knew it.

 

As for your last question, my opinion of rangers doesn't affect my ability to improve Scottish football.

Edited November 11, 2015 by Smithee

[Guest Bilel Mohsni]

Be careful what we wish for.

 

Did Ann Budge vote to add Andrew Dickson on to the SPFL 'ethics' committee?

 

If I was Ashley, I'd be going after Dickson and the SPFL at some point too.

 

Well he can afford it.....

I hope Ashley helps expose anyone at the SFA and SPFL who were in any way complicit in this, regardless.

[SUTOL]

You all just go "ahem whatever".  I genuinely fail to see the difference, here.  It's legal semantics.  We all lived way beyond our means,  Even before him we were a basket case. We all fecked taxpayers/investors/banks over.  Why single Rangers out? I see no difference,tbh.  Can someone please point out why Romanov's financial tenure was somehow "different" from what Murray and multiple EPL clubs did?  It was a disgrace all round.  Understandable but a mess.  

 

Why don't we all just concentrate on trying to make Scottish football viable again?

 

The difference is that part of the Rangers 'financial shenanigans'  was the incorrectly registration of lots of players with the SFA. 

That's the part to concentrate on.

What is the 'normal' punishment for incorrectly registering a player? 

[Bickfest]

As I see it (as a former tax consultant), the use of an EBT by Oldco in paying players and other staff is largely irrelevant in determining whether or not Rangers cheated - as is, to an extent, the decision as to whether payments through it were or were not taxable. EBT's were widely used as legitimate tax avoidance arrangements by many companies for many years and there would have been no reason for Rangers not to believe that such arrangements were also, effectively, available to competing teams. What is unacceptable is that Rangers deliberately and consistently failed to notify the football authorities of the separate "side" contracts and payments which meant that many of their players were not properly registered. They should be subject to the same penalties as any other side would be for fielding players not properly registered, including the loss of any titles unfairly won. Simple.

 

What is also of concern to me is that the company appears to have deliberately destroyed and/or altered and/or withheld documents and other evidence from HMRC and the football authorities. That takes avoidance into evasion or fraud if true and that should be the subject of separate enquiries by the SFA and SPFL.

[Don Dan]

Ashley is gradually becoming the Champion of the honest football fan here in Scotland. He is the only one with balls and the money to stand up to the Rangers and to the SFA who have bent over backwards to accommodate them. Who honestly thought that King was a Fit and Proper Person, a convicted tax cheat carrying a suspended jail sentence deemed good enough to head up a Scottish football club. A Glib and Shamless Liar previously on the board of a club that went into administration which is against the rules, accepted with open arms in the hope that "normality" will return to Scottish football.

We have Alex Thomson who for years has written about the love in but other than that there is no one else prepared to stand up against it. Jim Spence was hounded out for daring to speak out. Now it seems that Ashley is going to expose all. Well he's got my backing and I hope he leaves the lot of them naked in the gutter.

[Jamboelite]

Hardly old news as the arbitration process is underway after meetings at the end of October 2015.

 

It was one of the points being discussed on the latter part of this thread so it was posted to inform those who may be interested....it also shows what was said by Lord Smith at the time.......... that in his opinion no sporting advantage was gained from the EBT's so 'no sporting sanction or penalty should follow.'....just to be clear his words not mine.

 

I had thought that might be of interest even more so than the fact Lord Smith was a neighbour of David Murray.

That doesnt cover tax evasion which is what the current court case has noted.

[Stuart Lyon]

Backrest - you nailed it! If the SFA/SPL at the time had properly and honestly investigated this in the first place we wouldn't still have this hanging over Scottish football after 3 and a half years later! Is it any wonder Regan and Doncaster have struggled to attract sponsors.

[jambovambo]

As a way of topping up players wages & by circumventing uk tax laws they in turn also saved money in the process ..

 

Imagine they've promised a player ?100k per month. Factor in say 40% tax on that & you can imagine how much more than the ?100k they need to actually pay out pre tax to arrive at ?100k post tax.

 

Now If you only pay ?50k that's taxable & put the other ?50k Ebt in an offshore tax haven, the actual tax you pay is practically halved saving you a fortune. [emoji6]

 

The competitive advantage is that you can use an Ebt to pay players bypassing uk tax laws thus afford better players you prob wouldn't be able to afford if you had to pay the full uk tax on their earnings etc..

So THAT's how SDM's "for every ?5 Celtic spend, I'll spend ?10" worked ?

 

He really just spent the ?5 "net" of albeit dodged tax?

[Mysterion]

What happens when you take on a billionaire [emoji23]

 

[Musemic]

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/justice-for-football

 

Just under 3000 signatures now

[Diadora Van Basten]

 

The latest twist comes less than a week after HMRC, at the third time of asking, won their appeal in the ?Big Tax Case? and Gers? annual report confirmed they need an additional ?2.5m to survive the season.

 

Reading that bottom line you would think that the ?2.5m is a direct result of losing the Big Tax Case.

 

The reporting of the Rangers story has been horrendous throughout.

[JamboJen]

Match Of The Day have shared a BBC Sport article on Facebook. Good old BBC seem to think only people with Celtic connections have any interest in whether Rangers have titles stripped or not.

 

The comments from Orcs under the Facebook article highlight just how much the Rangers fans are either completely in denial about it all or simply clutching at straws.

 

My personal favourite comment was:

 

 

 

But we didn't gain any sporting advantage celtic has bet us a few times in that time period we won them fair.

Edited November 11, 2015 by JamboJen

[Jambo-Jimbo]

Whilst Ashley didn't turn out to be the saviour of Rangers he may well become the saviour of Scottish Football especially if he exposes the SFA for what everybody knows them to be and a major clean up of Scottish Football can begin.  

 

Rangers & the SFA are about to learn a very harsh lesson that 'Hell hath no fury like a Billionaire shafted'.

[reaths17]

Hardly old news as the arbitration process is underway after meetings at the end of October 2015.

 

It was one of the points being discussed on the latter part of this thread so it was posted to inform those who may be interested....it also shows what was said by Lord Smith at the time.......... that in his opinion no sporting advantage was gained from the EBT's so 'no sporting sanction or penalty should follow.'....just to be clear his words not mine.

 

I had thought that might be of interest even more so than the fact Lord Smith was a neighbour of David Murray.

how many times do you need it told to you...

 

LNS was a sham from the start evidence was with held and he was under restricted viewing, as in he was only allowed to look at a small period of the cheating and lastly "since then the deliberate tax evasion has been deemed illegal" which blows everything LNS oot the water.

 

you cheated.....you pay the price, get on with it.

[I P Knightley]

You all just go "ahem whatever".  I genuinely fail to see the difference, here.  It's legal semantics.  We all lived way beyond our means,  Even before him we were a basket case. We all fecked taxpayers/investors/banks over.  Why single Rangers out? I see no difference,tbh.  Can someone please point out why Romanov's financial tenure was somehow "different" from what Murray and multiple EPL clubs did?  It was a disgrace all round.  Understandable but a mess.  

 

Why don't we all just concentrate on trying to make Scottish football viable again?

Scottish football will be viable if it's run on a level playing field without the authorities pandering to two clubs.

 

For this to happen, there has to be a massive shake-up. The greatest opportunity at the moment is for the SFA to be taken to task for their failure to deal with the way in which Rangers used their EBTs to bring in players they couldn't otherwise afford and failed to register those players properly. If something can be done to build trust in the sporting integrity of the game, we might see a more marketable and viable product.

 

Incorrect registration of players is an offence which has resulted in serious sporting consequences for a number of clubs (out of the cup; points docked) but the issue has been fudged in respect of Rangers. Put that right and we've made a big step forward.

 

Whatever Romanov did, it fell within the rules of the SFA/SPL. Except, that is, for the few times he ran off at the mouth over the incompetence of the game's authorities, when he was dealt with summarily. Nothing that he did, other than overspend (again, within the rules), gave us a sporting advantage.

[Footballfirst]

I'm just wondering when we will hear about a judicial review of the LNS Commission.

[XB52]

You all just go "ahem whatever".  I genuinely fail to see the difference, here.  It's legal semantics.  We all lived way beyond our means,  Even before him we were a basket case. We all fecked taxpayers/investors/banks over.  Why single Rangers out? I see no difference,tbh.  Can someone please point out why Romanov's financial tenure was somehow "different" from what Murray and multiple EPL clubs did?  It was a disgrace all round.  Understandable but a mess.  

 

Why don't we all just concentrate on trying to make Scottish football viable again?

well now we kn ow you are a hun supporter so no point arguing with you

[Sidsnot]

Hope Ashley brings the whole shooting match down. A clear out at the SFA and SPFL would be a better result than any I had hoped for when all this blew up. What I'll never understand is how all these men at the governing bodies have been so keen to help them every step of the way, often at risk to their own reputation, while all they have had in return from the Rangers fans and employees is abuse and threats.

There may possibly be a small problem in that respect,what if those members are under threat from Houston and company,you've saw on tv what he is like,I.e. Craig Whyte leaving court in Glasgow "Your a dead man Whyte."

This was in front of five police officers who were escorting him towards a car,then again it's possible Mr C OGILVIE might have a wee say in the matter,who knows,or perhaps Mr. S Bryson is starting to get rather jittery as he knows the water is starting to rise.

[jambovambo]

how many times do you need it told to you...

 

LNS was a sham from the start evidence was with held and he was under restricted viewing, as in he was only allowed to look at a small period of the cheating and lastly "since then the deliberate tax evasion has been deemed illegal" which blows everything LNS oot the water.

 

you cheated.....you pay the price, get on with it.

LNS - he was like a blindfolded man led into a blacked out room being asked "is there a black piece of paper in this room?" or similar.

 

Someone might be able to develop the analogy better.

[Guest Bilel Mohsni]

There may possibly be a small problem in that respect,what if those members are under threat from Houston and company,you've saw on tv what he is like,I.e. Craig Whyte leaving court in Glasgow "Your a dead man Whyte."

This was in front of five police officers who were escorting him towards a car,then again it's possible Mr C OGILVIE might have a wee say in the matter,who knows,or perhaps Mr. S Bryson is starting to get rather jittery as he knows the water is starting to rise.

I reckon Ogilvie could be in the shit, likes.

[Sidsnot]

In my opinion, they deserved a big tax case and a liquidation / bankruptcy. Stripping titles just seems insincere to me. We have Abramovichs gaining billions from bribes and pooring into football, Mansours torturing business partners and common citizens to solidify financial power, heck, Romanovs robbing poor Lithuanian persioners of their bank savings and then spending on football. Rangers situation is different formally, since their owner went and involved them directly into his financial crimes, while others used third companies, but practical result is the same, football teams constantly get doped by dirty money.

 

So I'd rather just leave it to the government deal with it and punish people and companies for crimes. I wouldn't want football leagues to strip any titles. Sure, there's a formal uniqueness to the Rangers situation, but ultimately lots of teams use dirty money to get players that they couldn't afford without dirty money.

So tell me this then,if by chance the same scenario were to happen again,you wouldn't mind spending thousands every season on watching Hearts and other clubs in Scotland being steamrollered every week knowing that another team had cheated the clubs,you would be happy to see it happen again,come on.:)

Take a wee listen to this clown,Roger Mitchell,who has now declared that Rangers/Sevco/Newco FC are now to be called JESUS CHRIST FC,

https://soundcloud.com/celticresearch/roger-mitchell-extract-sportsound

[Footballfirst]

You can read the final part of QC Jolyon Maugham?s trilogy here

 

http://waitingfortax.com/2015/11/11/on-ebts-and-rangers-part-3/

 

He doesn?t dissect the CoS decision as some might have expected, but repeats much of what he said on Sportsound last night.

[Footballfirst]

Court cases for your diary.

 

• Charles Green v RIFC - 11/12 November @ Court of Session - re legal costs
• HMA v Whyte, Withey, Grier, Whitehouse, Clark, Green, (maybe Ahmad?) - 7-11 December @ High Court - further preliminary hearings
• Sports Direct v Dave King - 9 December @ Chancery Court, London - Contempt of court re disclosure of of contract details.
• MASH Holdings v SFA - 11 December 4 February 2016 @ Court of Session - Request for judicial review of the SFA's FPP decision on Dave King. 

Edited November 11, 2015 by Footballfirst

[Stuart Lyon]

Mitchell is a numptie! Michael Grant in today's times saying Rangers shouldn't be stripped of their tarnished (my word) titles! Another Rangers apologist.

Edited November 11, 2015 by Stuart Lyon

[Don Dan]

Maugham, in these few words hits the nail on the head "You find the moral quality of an action only in its actors. At what they did at the time and why they did it." In the period of time Rangers used EBTs and side letters part of which was against the SFL rules, their only aim was to gain an advantage. History shows that they did indeed gain an advantage. History also shows that other clubs broke the rules where punished despite gaining honours. It now falls to the SFA /SPFL to show the footballing world that these attempts of cheating will be dealt with properly, fines given, points deducted, titles and trophies stripped. Anything less is unacceptable and should be challenged.

[Footballfirst]

I made a mistke in the first case I listed. It should of course be 12/13 November for Green v RIFC. (i.e. tomorrow and Friday)

[Sidsnot]

Maugham, in these few words hits the nail on the head "You find the moral quality of an action only in its actors. At what they did at the time and why they did it." In the period of time Rangers used EBTs and side letters part of which was against the SFL rules, their only aim was to gain an advantage. History shows that they did indeed gain an advantage. History also shows that other clubs broke the rules where punished despite gaining honours. It now falls to the SFA /SPFL to show the footballing world that these attempts of cheating will be dealt with properly, fines given, points deducted, titles and trophies stripped. Anything less is unacceptable and should be challenged.

Close thread,perfect summary.

Btw,there's many Jambos who come from many parts of the U.K. to see the team,I'd love to know what the opinion of the London Hearts Supporters club in regards to this case.

They,more than most,must have paid out thousands of pounds for years in coming up here for games not knowing the game was rigged for years and years,getting up at 5 or 6 am in the morning come rain,hail or shine and paying an absolute fortune in train/coach fares to see the team,it's they more than anyone else I feel sorry for.

[Strachsuit]

Maugham, in these few words hits the nail on the head "You find the moral quality of an action only in its actors. At what they did at the time and why they did it." In the period of time Rangers used EBTs and side letters part of which was against the SFL rules, their only aim was to gain an advantage. History shows that they did indeed gain an advantage. History also shows that other clubs broke the rules where punished despite gaining honours. It now falls to the SFA /SPFL to show the footballing world that these attempts of cheating will be dealt with properly, fines given, points deducted, titles and trophies stripped. Anything less is unacceptable and should be challenged.

 

Spot on. 

[Strachsuit]

 

Court cases for your diary.

 

• Charles Green v RIFC - 11/12 November @ Court of Session - re legal costs
• HMA v Whyte, Withey, Grier, Whitehouse, Clark, Green, (maybe Ahmad?) - 7-11 December @ High Court - further preliminary hearings
• Sports Direct v Dave King - 9 December @ Chancery Court, London - Contempt of court re disclosure of of contract details.
• MASH Holdings v SFA - 11 December 4 February 2016 @ Court of Session - Request for judicial review of the SFA's FPP decision on Dave King. 

 

 

What's the reason for the change of date in the judicial review hearing between MASH and the SFA, FF? Didn't the date just get announced last night as 11th Dec?

[flecktimus]

http://www.celticquicknews.co.uk/whitewashing-in-the-age-of-judicial-reviews-fans-united-were-gonna-do-it-anyway/

[Thomaso]

Read with interest comments today regarding stripping of titles -

 

"As a Celtic fan, I take my bragging rights from the fact that in 2010 they were dead"

 

Direct quote from Roger Mitchell - a former SPL Chief Executive.

 

I am sure he would have put all Celtic bias aside during his tenure at the SPL though................

[Rods]

As a way of topping up players wages & by circumventing uk tax laws they in turn also saved money in the process ..

 

Imagine they've promised a player ?100k per month. Factor in say 40% tax on that & you can imagine how much more than the ?100k they need to actually pay out pre tax to arrive at ?100k post tax.

 

Now If you only pay ?50k that's taxable & put the other ?50k Ebt in an offshore tax haven, the actual tax you pay is practically halved saving you a fortune. [emoji6]

 

The competitive advantage is that you can use an Ebt to pay players bypassing uk tax laws thus afford better players you prob wouldn't be able to afford if you had to pay the full uk tax on their earnings etc..

 

Your last point is bang on the money and should be the only point people are looking at when it comes to the cheating.

 

A lot of these players could have had commanded similar wages from a mid-table premier league club and Rangers well knew this so they decided to circumvent/cheat the rules to obtain these players therefore gaining a sporting advantage over the rest of the competition.

 

Cheated plain and simple.

[The People's Chimp]

Folk on about stripping titles. 

 

If Romanov was shown to have been at it with how he employed, say Miko, should we lose the 2006 cup win? If you start looking at the 'morality of actors' would Romanov's time at the helm be immoral? Certainly been argued that it was by Hibs fans, but if you start saying that Rangers were immoral and should therefore have titled stripped, then an extension of that argument would be possible to make to include hearts in that. Look at 2012 when we were having financial issues. Would clearly be an extension of the argument that rangers by not paying tax gained an advantage and then titles should be stripped, to say that we gained an advantage and our cup win should be stripped. It's not an argument I agree with, but it is there to be made. How can people not see that? 

 

It's a very odd mindset - supporting trolls like Darren O'Dea and getting behind the idea of Celtic lobbying for titles to be stripped.  

[Toxteth O'Grady]

The rules are quite clear regarding what they should provide.

 

 

 

 

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And nobody at the SFA thought to ask why they were on such low wages in comparison to similar players playing for Celtic

[jambovambo]

Folk on about stripping titles. 

 

If Romanov was shown to have been at it with how he employed, say Miko, should we lose the 2006 cup win? If you start looking at the 'morality of actors' would Romanov's time at the helm be immoral? Certainly been argued that it was by Hibs fans, but if you start saying that Rangers were immoral and should therefore have titled stripped, then an extension of that argument would be possible to make to include hearts in that. Look at 2012 when we were having financial issues. Would clearly be an extension of the argument that rangers by not paying tax gained an advantage and then titles should be stripped, to say that we gained an advantage and our cup win should be stripped. It's not an argument I agree with, but it is there to be made. How can people not see that? 

 

It's a very odd mindset - supporting trolls like Darren O'Dea and getting behind the idea of Celtic lobbying for titles to be stripped.  

If the circumstances were the same, then I'd want consistency, yes.

 

I wouldn't want Hearts stripped of a cup win, but Rangers to keep all theirs, no.

[The People's Chimp]

Close thread,perfect summary.

Btw,there's many Jambos who come from many parts of the U.K. to see the team,I'd love to know what the opinion of the London Hearts Supporters club in regards to this case.

They,more than most,must have paid out thousands of pounds for years in coming up here for games not knowing the game was rigged for years and years,getting up at 5 or 6 am in the morning come rain,hail or shine and paying an absolute fortune in train/coach fares to see the team,it's they more than anyone else I feel sorry for.

 

Tremendous. Most concerned about the feelings of 10 folk because they get the train to hearts games. 

[The People's Chimp]

If the circumstances were the same, then I'd want consistency, yes.

 

I wouldn't want Hearts stripped of a cup win, but Rangers to keep all theirs, no.

 

That doesn't make any sense, and it doesn't really engage with the point. 

 

Thin end of the wedge. Think about it. Once one campaign starts, when does the next one begin? 

[Rods]

Folk on about stripping titles. 

 

If Romanov was shown to have been at it with how he employed, say Miko, should we lose the 2006 cup win? If you start looking at the 'morality of actors' would Romanov's time at the helm be immoral? Certainly been argued that it was by Hibs fans, but if you start saying that Rangers were immoral and should therefore have titled stripped, then an extension of that argument would be possible to make to include hearts in that. Look at 2012 when we were having financial issues. Would clearly be an extension of the argument that rangers by not paying tax gained an advantage and then titles should be stripped, to say that we gained an advantage and our cup win should be stripped. It's not an argument I agree with, but it is there to be made. How can people not see that? 

 

It's a very odd mindset - supporting trolls like Darren O'Dea and getting behind the idea of Celtic lobbying for titles to be stripped.  

 

Think you have misunderstood. I think people are more along the lines of wanting the SFA/SPL to treat Rangers they same as they would any other club rather than a celtic love in but maybe thats just me.

 

See previous mentions of Juve,Lance Armstrong and Ben Johnston. People did not want Ben Johnston stripped of his medal because they were Carl Lewis fans they wanted the medal stripped as they cheated.

 

As for your point of living beyond our means the majority of buisness do it as some point and by 2012 we had a plan to get out of this crazy overspending. in fact if I remember right we actually made a profit on the 2012 accounts so I am not sure where you are coming from with wanting us to be stripped of titles.

 

Perhaps your Rangers tinted glasses need adjusting.