The Rangers soap opera goes on and on.

[Carl Fredrickson]

Hopefully C4 will run with this and put pressure on the Scottish football authorities. National news highlighting it will hopefully have an impact on what happens

[LeftBack]

alex thomson ?@alextomo 19 mins19 minutes ago

TOMOBLOG: Rangers - they cheated at tax. They cheated at football. Seize the silverware. http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thomsons-view/rangers-cheated-football-fraudulent-silverware/10066/ ?

he hasnt missed has he? Would be difficult to build rational and cohesive argument against this - something a bit more than 'no we/they didnae'. Or indeed the ridiculous 'at the end of the day it was still 11 v11'. Aye - 11 players who are only playing for one club because they have been illegally paid hundreds of thousands of pounds against 11 others who collectively haven't been legally paid even one hundred thousand. Edited November 9, 2015 by Harry's Roar

[Eldar Hadzimehmedovic]

Bravo, Alex Thomson.

[XB52]

 

alex thomson ?@alextomo  19 mins19 minutes ago

TOMOBLOG: Rangers - they cheated at tax. They cheated at football. Seize the silverware. http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thomsons-view/rangers-cheated-football-fraudulent-silverware/10066/ ?

 

while I find that blog great and can't argue with a single sentence (well apart from the same club bit near the end), I find it sad and a bit scary that not one Scottish journalist has the balls to come out with the same stuff

[Mysterion]

It's a no holds barred blog - however i don't see it having any real effect.

 

If Rangers are to be stripped of any titles then it will only be due to a concerted campaign by fans to push for it. The complicit media and so far the authorities have given zero indicators that they have the backbone to act.

 

IMO - anything won during the timeframe defined by EBTs should be temporarily removed. If there is an appeal then only when complete can a final review determine if the removal is permanent.

[The Comedian]

No doubt Tomo's brilliant blog will be ridiculed by giants of our game like Chick and Hugh (clear your throat FFS) Keevins.

 

Because the powerful but talkative ?Mr Black? was good enough to spill the beans to the Tax Tribunal: ?Mr Black did not consider the Trust as a means of tax avoidance, but rather as a means of retaining and rewarding loyal employees. So far as Rangers was concerned it enabled the Club to attract players who would not otherwise have been obtainable.?

 

 

 

[Sidsnot]

Bravo, Alex Thomson.

Yep,but why in God's name does it take an outsider to tell the truth and tell it as it should be?

[Rick Grimes]

Yep,but why in God's name does it take an outsider to tell the truth and tell it as it should be?

That was rhetorical I hope.

[tokyowalnut]

It's embarrassing listening to Richard Wilson on Sports sound tonight claiming that maybe Rangers didn't willfully hold on to tax money. Graham Spiers is able to make clear and consistent points while that pleb is getting worked up at anyone questioning Rangers position.

 

BBC, our national broadcaster and not biased in any way? Balls.

[Cast No Shadow]

"Move on."

 

[Alva-Jambo]

The  scheme was not illegal at the time but the withholding of Tax has NOW been deemed to have been ilegal.

  I'm sorry but as a Hearts man I still donot see how the Oldco situation, while it DOES bring on field advantage, is " Illegal" when the sceme underlying, was legal

 

Maybe the HMRC will indeed go and crie the tax out of the shells of the old co players.

 

But that aside,  this has been like saying, now we can get away with diving in the box.  They dived in the box, got away with it.   That is what passes for acceptable sportsmanship,  so there is

no chance the SFA will revisit the Rangers (Oldco) story now.   Just my view, I don't mid if they did. 

[ollie2004]

The whole thing is a farce from start to finish. Lets not forget the organisation who will probably investigate this are the same corrupt bunch that held the fit and proper person test for king.

 

Could it just be coincidence that the whole tax case investigation in South Africa was started because King had falsified his taxable income and it has now been proven the same thing has occured for many many staff employed at rangers during the entire time he was on the board the first time round. 

 

I honestly hope UEFA are watching this situation closely and take action should the SFA decide to try and sweep the whole thing under the carpet as this has gone on too long and should have been dealt with promptly.

 

 

Are UEFA and FIFA not also being investigated for alleged corruption?

[SUTOL]

The  scheme was not illegal at the time but the withholding of Tax has NOW been deemed to have been ilegal.

  I'm sorry but as a Hearts man I still donot see how the Oldco situation, while it DOES bring on field advantage, is " Illegal" when the sceme underlying, was legal

 

 

 

EBT's are legal. Rangers didn't run their EBT's in the proper way to make them legal, so technically you could say they weren't actually EBT's. 

[Hackney Hearts]

Statement just issued by Rangers;

 

"It is our irrevocable belief that this Club?s history, including its many successes, is beyond debate. Rangers cannot countenance or accept any talk, attempts or actions designed to undermine what this Club has achieved throughout its long history."

 

Apart from the sheer pomposity, it's just so badly written! This section in particular is like a lesson in tautology. The second sentence just repeats the meaning of the first, and then we have "countenance or accept" - what's the difference? Next it's "talk, attempts or actions" - you'd have thought 'attempts' might be covered by 'talk' and 'actions'...... what other attempts are not allowed? Thinking? Thinking bad things about Rangers to undermine them?

 

If I didn't know better, I'd say it sounds like someone's really annoyed, vexed, indignant, riled and splenetic.

[Deevers]

It's embarrassing listening to Richard Wilson on Sports sound tonight claiming that maybe Rangers didn't willfully hold on to tax money. Graham Spiers is able to make clear and consistent points while that pleb is getting worked up at anyone questioning Rangers position.

BBC, our national broadcaster and not biased in any way? Balls.

 

Richard Wilsonhas become little more than an embarrassment to the BBC. His consistent defence of Sevco is cringeworthy. Time they gave him the bullet.

[Romanov Stole My Pension]

All the complaining on here is useless unless football fans actually try to put pressure on the authorities. The SFA don't read Kickback so let your feeling be known by mail. I'd really love Hearts to make a statement on this, the SFA would struggle to ignore the member clubs if they began to kick up a fuss.

[Stuart Lyon]

The point is what they did has been deemed illegal and unless they appeal and get this decision overturned then they should accept both the legal and sporting consequences of their actions. The proposal to withdraw titles won during the period of their illegal activity should be highlighted at every opportunity and the SFA & SPFL should be pressured into accepting the (SNP quote coming up) sovereign will of Scottish football fans to sort this out once and for all.

Edited November 9, 2015 by Stuart Lyon

[i wish jj was my dad]

Hopefully, in the interests of balance the BBC will get Mr Thomson in to try and counter some of the petulant shite Richard Wilson was spouting. 

 

Even Speirs was ridiculing him 

[Shooter McGavin]

This whole "strip the titles" thing is getting a bit boring now, haven't they suffered enough......

 

(Takes one look on Bears Den)

 

Please strip the titles. I was reading the first post on one of their threads and this lunatic is talking about how the EBT system wasn't illegal when they were using it but since has been made illegal then he immediately jumps to Celtic and other nonsense I don't wish to mention. Rangers fans really are the lowest of the low.

[Maiden Gorgie]

All the complaining on here is useless unless football fans actually try to put pressure on the authorities. The SFA don't read Kickback so let your feeling be known by mail. I'd really love Hearts to make a statement on this, the SFA would struggle to ignore the member clubs if they began to kick up a fuss.

 

I would prefer we keep out of it. None of our business IMO. That's not to say other groups/bodies should be applying pressure, of course they should. 

 

As others have said hopefully people like Alex Thomson ramp it up a bit more

[Shrekeo]

Hopefully, in the interests of balance the BBC will get Mr Thomson in to try and counter some of the petulant shite Richard Wilson was spouting.

 

Even Speirs was ridiculing him

Heard some of that discussion!!! Cringeworthingly biased from Wilson as expected......

 

To be honest, I quite like Speirs.

[Malinga the Swinga]

Richard Wilsonhas become little more than an embarrassment to the BBC. His consistent defence of Sevco is cringeworthy. Time they gave him the bullet.

if you kept listening, you were treated to an old firm love in between Paul Lambert and Stuart McCall, with Wilson and co chuckling in the background about 9 in a row jokes and other garbage. Tell us Paul, you won a European Cup winners medal, did anything prepare you for Celtic and an old firm game? Tell me Paul, I know you played in Bundesliga, but how great are Celtic?

 

Programme only worth listening to if Tom English is on, especially since Spency left. The rest aren't journalists, they are old firm supporters.

[The Don]

I would prefer we keep out of it. None of our business IMO. That's not to say other groups/bodies should be applying pressure, of course they should.

 

As others have said hopefully people like Alex Thomson ramp it up a bit more

It is as much in our interest as it is any of the other groups. Probably more so given we lost more than any other team ( Not including Celtic) I'm not saying we will or should be financially compensated but for the interest of sporting integrity they have to be punished. Hopefully it would also lead to a complete clear out of all the corrupt arseholes in suits at the SFA and SPFL

 

This leave it to others attitude is exactly one of the reasons nothing ever gets done and why nothing moves forward. It only takes one club or group to take a stance and the rest will follow, it's the getting that first one to be brave enough to start it.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Deevers]

if you kept listening, you were treated to an old firm love in between Paul Lambert and Stuart McCall, with Wilson and co chuckling in the background about 9 in a row jokes and other garbage. Tell us Paul, you won a European Cup winners medal, did anything prepare you for Celtic and an old firm game? Tell me Paul, I know you played in Bundesliga, but how great are Celtic?

Programme only worth listening to if Tom English is on, especially since Spency left. The rest aren't journalists, they are old firm supporters.

It's become a complete joke of a programme. An Old Firm love in at License payers expense. It's horrendous.

[RobNox]

Apologies if already posted, haven't spotted it...latest from John James suggests the majority of club representatives on the SPFL Board are in no mood to bend over and accept any sort of whitewash.

 

https://johnjamessite.wordpress.com/2015/11/09/fit-for-purpose-2/

[cannonfoda]

That article from C4 sums up the arrogance of Sevco perfectly.  Mr "Black" thought and still thinks he/they are invincible and they have been wronged.  This is why they should be booted right out of scottish football.  

[swavkav]

Apologies if already posted, haven't spotted it...latest from John James suggests the majority of club representatives on the SPFL Board are in no mood to bend over and accept any sort of whitewash.

 

https://johnjamessite.wordpress.com/2015/11/09/fit-for-purpose-2/

I have never heard of this guy, how reliable is he? ( please say bang on)

Edited November 9, 2015 by swavkav

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

I have never heard of this guy, how reliable is he? ( please say bang on)

A wannabe 3 Names. I'm just waiting on him changing his name to Sean Seamus!

[RobNox]

I have never heard of this guy, how reliable is he? ( please say bang on)

Purports to be a Rangers fan, who's main agenda seems to be about exposing King for the shyster we all know he is.

 

Not sure if he has any more reliable sources than PMcG claims to have, but his blog is a better read than Phil's.  For a start, he seems to have worked out how to construct paragraphs and doesn't employ a series of hackneyed phrases, as Phil tends to do, dear reader!

[i wish jj was my dad]

Apologies if already posted, haven't spotted it...latest from John James suggests the majority of club representatives on the SPFL Board are in no mood to bend over and accept any sort of whitewash.

 

https://johnjamessite.wordpress.com/2015/11/09/fit-for-purpose-2/

No idea if this is true but the others clubs should go for the throat.  I'm truly sick of everyone else bending over and accepting the status quo.

[CJGJ]

Purports to be a Rangers fan, who's main agenda seems to be about exposing King for the shyster we all know he is.

 

Not sure if he has any more reliable sources than PMcG claims to have, but his blog is a better read than Phil's.  For a start, he seems to have worked out how to construct paragraphs and doesn't employ a series of hackneyed phrases, as Phil tends to do, dear reader!

You do know his background don't you ?

 

Honest John the second hand car dealer is more honest than him........in fact it's a close call between him and Sergay as to who is the best story teller....sorry biggest story teller.

Edited November 9, 2015 by CJGJ

[RobNox]

No idea if this is true but the others clubs should go for the throat.  I'm truly sick of everyone else bending over and accepting the status quo.

I'm really hoping it is true, as it suggests that most of the club chairmen on the Board are not willing to sweep this under the carpet, and I would hope it would lead to a groundswell of other club chairmen adding their voices to the argument.

 

As Doncaster regularly points out, the SPFL is there to do the bidding of its members. If those members insist on action being taken against Rangers, then the SPFL is duty bound to follow the wishes of its members.

[Maroon tinted glasses 2]

At the end of the day if the ebt's were legal and rangers were using them in the correct manor then they would have had no reason to withhold any contractual information when registering the players, however the evidence of side letters show that they were trying hide something knowing fine well they were sailing pretty close to the wind.

 

The use of ebt's may not have been deemed illegal at the time but deliberately withholding the information when registering the players means the players were incorrectly registered to play and this is what they should be penalised for. SION as well as getting kicked out of European competition for having 4/6 incorrectly registered players they were also docked 3 points for every domestic game the players played in resulting in them losing 36 points, the league body was not really happy to do this but under pressure from Uefa they had no choice.

 

As mentioned earlier yes uefa and fifa are getting investigated for corruption but those that still remain should be more driven to be seen to ensure this is sorted out for the good of the game.

[RobNox]

You do know his background don't you ?

 

Honest John the second hand car dealer is more honest than him........in fact it's a close call between him and Sergay as to who is the best story teller....sorry biggest story teller.

I'm not aware of his background, but happy to be enlightened.  

[Guest Bilel Mohsni]

Add to this the fact they would jump ship to England if they'd have them.

This, all day long and every day. The absolute cheek of it!

[Riccarton3]

That Rangers statement reads like a Record article before Rangers were put to the 4th tier. Just a shorter re -hash, and like then, has no substance.

Edited November 9, 2015 by Riccarton3

[CJGJ]

I'm not aware of his background, but happy to be enlightened.  

His words are as true as Kings at a South African tax tribunal.

 

Just don't rely on him as a source of true/accurate information. A small bit of checking will no doubt give you more details but as Geoff has intimated following a trail of numerous name changes does get tedious.

[The Don]

You do know his background don't you ?

 

Honest John the second hand car dealer is more honest than him........in fact it's a close call between him and Sergay as to who is the best story teller....sorry biggest story teller.

 

 

Just like the great honest men that are running sevco and the other great honest men that ran the club before liquidation. 

[DETTY29]

I'm really hoping it is true, as it suggests that most of the club chairmen on the Board are not willing to sweep this under the carpet, and I would hope it would lead to a groundswell of other club chairmen adding their voices to the argument.

 

As Doncaster regularly points out, the SPFL is there to do the bidding of its members. If those members insist on action being taken against Rangers, then the SPFL is duty bound to follow the wishes of its members rules. (And the SFA's)

Sorry - fixed that a wee touch.

 

To me that's all I want the football authorities to do.  

 

But as a fan I'd push for :-

 

1. ' Board discretion' is completely reviewed

2.  The SFA Independent Panels must follow the Articles and Rules of the SFA (see Rangers registration ban they should never have had)

3.  LNS is completely reviewed, the information withheld provided and Brysonism challenged.  (If Bryson was an IOC man and Ben Johnson a Rangers fan he would argue that as Johnson started the race and finished it, you only had the 9.79 seconds of his race to prove he was taking drugs)

 

Re LNS being reopened perhaps the clubs could push that as both FTTT/UTTT/CoS recognised that Rangers hid documents from HMRC/SPL/SFA so as not to prejudice the EBT or their players registration and (Dr Poon?) was convinced documents were shredded; Murray/MG/Oram.Rangers lied to HMRC and it took a separate police investigation to discover such documents, that no individual should be held responsible or chucked out of Scottish football.

 

Then again the SFA Professional Board on behalf of the club signed off Dave King (working out well isn't it) against the SFA rules and allows Bryson to sign off 153 (as of Gary Oliver being recalled by us) loan recalls in contravention of the SFA rules, then the whole organisation is a bogey.

 

But I suspect Murray and Rangers knew this all along and why the acted they way they did.

Edited November 9, 2015 by DETTY29

[Independence]

It's embarrassing listening to Richard Wilson on Sports sound tonight claiming that maybe Rangers didn't willfully hold on to tax money. Graham Spiers is able to make clear and consistent points while that pleb is getting worked up at anyone questioning Rangers position.

 

BBC, our national broadcaster and not biased in any way? Balls.

BBC our National Broadcaster....don't make me laugh!

[Jammy T]

They really are scum of the earth.

[cjwye]

So athletics are stripping the cheats of medals.

No hanging around in that decision!

[Groatallar]

The SFA should not be punishing any club over this, the old club is dead and it should rest with them.

 

The new club who call themselves Rangers should however be slapped on the wrist for claiming to have won 5 titles, when they have actually only won two.

[Don Dan]

They're all at it, cheating and denying any wrongdoing.

 

German FA chief Wolfgang Niersbach has resigned over a FIFA payment that has resulted in a tax evasion probe.

 

Niersbach told reporters after an emergency meeting of the federation that he's talking "political responsibility" for the affair and has resigned "to protect the DFB and the office".

 

In a personal statement, Niersbach said: "I have worked for all these years at all times not only with great passion, but always accurately, trustfully and correctly.

 

"In addition to my assigned fields of marketing, media accreditations and event organization, I can say with a clear conscience that I reproach myself for absolutely nothing.

 

"More depressing and painful it is for me to be confronted for tasks nine years later that I had no involvement in and which leave many questions open for me. I maintain and make it clear once again that I was standing in the background and had no knowledge of the cash flows.

 

"The decision is made all the more difficult for me due to the political consequences. I love football and this association in which I experienced wonderful moments and I worked with great people. To protect the DFB and the office, I resign as the DFB president with a heavy heart."

 

Police raided the headquarters of the German Football Association (DFB) last Tuesday (November 3) over allegations of tax evasion linked to the awarding of the 2006 World Cup.

 

The homes of Niersbach and former president Theo Zwanziger were also searched as part of an operation involving 50 officers.

 

It followed a report in the German news weekly Der Spiegel last month that said the DFB made a secret payment of 6.7m Euros (?4.6m) to FIFA in 2005. An internal audit has failed to find any trace of the 6.7m Euros in the DFB's tax documents.

 

Wolfgang has fallen on his sword.

[bigsuperslim1874]

I did laugh today when the news broke on Sky Sports and Natalie Sawyer clearly advised that this affected oldco and that there was now a NEW Rangers.I can only imagine the fury from the west when the job dodgers were watching that in the pub!

[adayinmay]

Great article on Bella Caledonia today - http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2015/11/09/mint-sauce-anyone/

 

For each propaganda piece dished out by TIRFC official statements, BBC Scotland and Daily Record there has to be a counter piece to keep the pressure on the SFA & SFPL to stand up and look into the game.

[reaths17]

Great article on Bella Caledonia today - http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2015/11/09/mint-sauce-anyone/

 

For each propaganda piece dished out by TIRFC official statements, BBC Scotland and Daily Record there has to be a counter piece to keep the pressure on the SFA & SFPL to stand up and look into the game.

the comments are way better than the story

[Jambo-Jimbo]

The SFA should not be punishing any club over this, the old club is dead and it should rest with them.

 

The new club who call themselves Rangers should however be slapped on the wrist for claiming to have won 5 titles, when they have actually only won two.

 

Somebody should tell them there're a new club and have only won 2 titles then.

 

European Cup Winners? Cup: Winners 1972; Runners-up 1961, 1967

UEFA Cup: Runners-up 2008

Scottish League Champions (54)

*1891, 1899, 1900, 1901, 1902, 1911, 1912, 1913, 1918, 1920, 1921, 1923, 1924, 1925, 1927, 1928, 1929, 1930, 1931, 1933, 1934, 1935, 1937, 1939, 1947, 1949, 1950, 1953, 1956, 1957, 1959, 1961, 1963, 1964, 1975, 1976, 1978, 1987, 1989, 1990, 1991, 1992, 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997, 1999, 2000, 2003, 2005, 2009, 2010, 2011

*In 1891 the championship was shared with Dumbarton

Scottish Cup Winners (33)

1894, 1897, 1898, 1903, 1928, 1930, 1932, 1934, 1935, 1936, 1948, 1949, 1950, 1953, 1960, 1962, 1963, 1964, 1966, 1973, 1976, 1978, 1979, 1981, 1992, 1993, 1996, 1999, 2000, 2002, 2003, 2008, 2009

Scottish League Cup Winners (27)

Season Starting: 1946, 1948, 1960, 1961, 1963, 1964, 1970, 1975, 1977, 1978, 1981, 1983, 1984, 1986, 1987, 1988, 1990, 1992, 1993, 1996, 1998, 2001, 2002, 2004, 2007, 2009, 2010.

Scottish Professional Football League One Winners (1)

2014

Scottish Third Division Winners (1)

2013

 

Do you still think that nothing should happen?

[jambovambo]

Great article on Bella Caledonia today - http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2015/11/09/mint-sauce-anyone/

 

For each propaganda piece dished out by TIRFC official statements, BBC Scotland and Daily Record there has to be a counter piece to keep the pressure on the SFA & SFPL to stand up and look into the game.

Littered with typos but I really like "giant dysfunctional cuckoo" as a description of them.

[Footballfirst]

Cached version of Doncaster blog piece about Ffp & sporting integrity. Now deleted [emoji6]

 

http://web.archive.org/web/20120715015422/http://www.scotprem.com/content/default.asp?page=s109

 

There is nothing wrong with what Doncaster says in that blog from July 2012.  Some of the new rules were adopted, hence Hearts were sanctioned for non payment of wages on time, however the substance of the FFP rules was voted down by clubs.