The Rangers soap opera goes on and on.

[Boris]

This is all a bit Sergey, guys. 

 

Do people honestly want them stripped of their titles? What good would that achieve other than satisfying a few bitter supporters of other clubs.

 

The game in Scotland is a big enough joke without all this shite.

 

Move on.  

 

Perhaps the game in Scotland is a joke BECAUSE of all this shite?  How can there be any faith or integrity in our game if rules are overlooked?  It's fairly obvious that we are where we are because it is Rangers.  Had we been doing this do you think we would be getting the same reaction from the SMSM and the footballing authorities?  Look how much we were fined when Romanov used to open his mouth?

 

Perhaps it's some sort of truth and reconcilliation that's needed?

 

Is it not the Newco that are playing at the moment though? So are you not all baying for blood from a dead entity?

 

That's the Newco with the 5 stars above Mike Ashley's crest in respect of league titles won?

[reaths17]

This is all a bit Sergey, guys. 

 

Do people honestly want them stripped of their titles? What good would that achieve other than satisfying a few bitter supporters of other clubs.

 

The game in Scotland is a big enough joke without all this shite.

 

Move on.

how much bigger a joke is it if cheating is acceptable ? and i'm really surprised that you are advocating cheating as being ok.

 

MOVE ON indeed, makes all wins in Scotland worthless, imagine telling a foreigner how good winning the Scottish cup against hibs was in 2012 and for them to turn around and say, yeah very good but you allow cheating, so no great sporting achievement there.

 

carpet and brush aren't gonna fix Scottish fitba now

[reaths17]

how much bigger a joke is it if cheating is acceptable ? and i'm really surprised that you are advocating cheating as being ok.

 

MOVE ON indeed, makes all wins in Scotland worthless, imagine telling a foreigner how good winning the Scottish cup against hibs was in 2012 and for them to turn around and say, yeah very good but you allow cheating, so no great sporting achievement there.

 

imagine trying to tell an egg chaser, how great a SPORT fitba is

 

carpet and brush aren't gonna fix Scottish fitba now

[TheMaganator]

Scottish football isn't a joke because of Rangers. 

 

If you guys (and I include all the weirdo Celtic bloggers) want to do something to improve Scottish football then you should direct your efforts into removing those at  the top of our game who seem to do little to improve it. 

 

I just don't see what good it'll do if we strip the titles. So, what, they will all go to the second place team in the years they won and everybody else moves up a league position? Will we be get the difference in prize money from our 4th to 3rd finish in whatever season?

 

Crack on if it satisfies you but I just see it all as being a sideshow and a complete waste of time. 

[Feeno]

The guy with a picture of the Queen and her consort in his avatar doesn't want Rangers titles stripped. There's a surprise

[Deevers]

Scottish football isn't a joke because of Rangers.

 

If you guys (and I include all the weirdo Celtic bloggers) want to do something to improve Scottish football then you should direct your efforts into removing those at the top of our game who seem to do little to improve it.

 

I just don't see what good it'll do if we strip the titles. So, what, they will all go to the second place team in the years they won and everybody else moves up a league position? Will we be get the difference in prize money from our 4th to 3rd finish in whatever season?

 

Crack on if it satisfies you but I just see it all as being a sideshow and a complete waste of time.

 

The only way Scottish football will ever be improved is if the cancer at the top of the tree in the game is exposed and expunged. Edited November 12, 2015 by Deevers

[davieholt]

Scottish football isn't a joke because of Rangers. 

 

If you guys (and I include all the weirdo Celtic bloggers) want to do something to improve Scottish football then you should direct your efforts into removing those at  the top of our game who seem to do little to improve it. 

 

I just don't see what good it'll do if we strip the titles. So, what, they will all go to the second place team in the years they won and everybody else moves up a league position? Will we be get the difference in prize money from our 4th to 3rd finish in whatever season?

 

Crack on if it satisfies you but I just see it all as being a sideshow and a complete waste of time. 

 

 

No one is suggesting that titles should be redistributed. Just that the competitions be declared void for those years.

To try to go any further would be silly.

[Boris]

Scottish football isn't a joke because of Rangers. 

 

If you guys (and I include all the weirdo Celtic bloggers) want to do something to improve Scottish football then you should direct your efforts into removing those at  the top of our game who seem to do little to improve it. 

 

I just don't see what good it'll do if we strip the titles. So, what, they will all go to the second place team in the years they won and everybody else moves up a league position? Will we be get the difference in prize money from our 4th to 3rd finish in whatever season?

 

Crack on if it satisfies you but I just see it all as being a sideshow and a complete waste of time. 

 

It's not about redistributing prize monies or awarding titles retrospectively.

 

This is the route to cleansing the running and administration of our game.  How can you say remove those at the top, yet do nothing about the injustices that they allowed to happen?  The two are inextricably linked, imo. 

[Footballfirst]

Is the financial squeeze at Ibrox now hitting Mark Warburton?

 

MARK Warburton has admitted that Rangers could allow key players to leave in January - if the price is right.

The Ibrox boss told the Evening Times that Rangers could be forced to sell players if the ?right fee? is offered, saying: ?I don?t want anyone to leave the football club.

?If they leave for a sum that offers value, it means the recruitment has been right because they?ve produced a level of performance which has attracted a bigger club that can afford to pay us a fee above and beyond what we?d want to get for a player.

?If a player comes in and gets offered quadruple his wages to play down south, we aren?t going to stand in his way as long as we get the right fee.?

[reaths17]

Scottish football isn't a joke because of Rangers. 

 

If you guys (and I include all the weirdo Celtic bloggers) want to do something to improve Scottish football then you should direct your efforts into removing those at  the top of our game who seem to do little to improve it. 

 

I just don't see what good it'll do if we strip the titles. So, what, they will all go to the second place team in the years they won and everybody else moves up a league position? Will we be get the difference in prize money from our 4th to 3rd finish in whatever season?

 

Crack on if it satisfies you but I just see it all as being a sideshow and a complete waste of time.

remove those at the top, who exactly do you think put them there ? the safeguard the media used to be, who was it paid for the lamb ? who in the media was ostrecised for not towing the hun line ?

 

the whole pack of cards need to fall and honesty and integrity has to be returned, that is not possible with a brush and carpet.

 

no one want's the tainted titles redistributed, that day is gone, an equally distributed justice is what people want.

Edited November 12, 2015 by reaths17

[blairdin]

I'd let Oldco keep their titles, it really doesn't bother me. They tried to exploit a dodgy loophole to buy success, discovered the loophole was possibly illegal leading to a large tax bill, fell behind with other tax bills and couldn't be rescued as a going concern. They are no more, Rangers are dead.

 

But that means Sevco have no history, other than the 2nd and 1st division titles since they were founded to replace the previous incarnation that died.

 

They can't have it both ways.

[reaths17]

Is the financial squeeze at Ibrox now hitting Mark Warburton?

 

MARK Warburton has admitted that Rangers could allow key players to leave in January - if the price is right.

The Ibrox boss told the Evening Times that Rangers could be forced to sell players if the ?right fee? is offered, saying: ?I don?t want anyone to leave the football club.

?If they leave for a sum that offers value, it means the recruitment has been right because they?ve produced a level of performance which has attracted a bigger club that can afford to pay us a fee above and beyond what we?d want to get for a player.

?If a player comes in and gets offered quadruple his wages to play down south, we aren?t going to stand in his way as long as we get the right fee.?

its more king & the gang that's getting hit with cash problems, warburton will only be the messenger.

[TheMaganator]

It isn't like Rangers came up with EBTs themselves. At the time they were seen as legitimate. The Courts have now said otherwise. 

 

Calling it cheating is a stretch. Or are we also cheats for handing out contracts that we couldn't afford to pay and then diddling the tax man out of millions.

 

It's not about redistributing prize monies or awarding titles retrospectively.

 

This is the route to cleansing the running and administration of our game.  How can you say remove those at the top, yet do nothing about the injustices that they allowed to happen?  The two are inextricably linked, imo. 

EBTs  were quite widely used, were they not? It isn't like it was just a thing that Rangers came up with and those in charge signed off on it in a giant conspiracy to cheat the other side of the old firm and Scottish football. 

 

The guy with a picture of the Queen and her consort in his avatar doesn't want Rangers titles stripped. There's a surprise

I just think rag dolling a dead legal entity is pointless and will serve to do nothing other than please people that hate Rangers. It is nothing to do with politics or my love of the Monarchy. 

[BelgeJambo]

Is the financial squeeze at Ibrox now hitting Mark Warburton?

 

MARK Warburton has admitted that Rangers could allow key players to leave in January - if the price is right.

The Ibrox boss told the Evening Times that Rangers could be forced to sell players if the ?right fee? is offered, saying: ?I don?t want anyone to leave the football club.

?If they leave for a sum that offers value, it means the recruitment has been right because they?ve produced a level of performance which has attracted a bigger club that can afford to pay us a fee above and beyond what we?d want to get for a player.

?If a player comes in and gets offered quadruple his wages to play down south, we aren?t going to stand in his way as long as we get the right fee.?

Leading Hibs into a false sense of security me thinks

[BelgeJambo]

Big Ash really trying to put the boot in just now - Good Luck to him on both fronts

[Boris]

It isn't like Rangers came up with EBTs themselves. At the time they were seen as legitimate. The Courts have now said otherwise. 

 

Have you read this thread?  No one is saying EBTs are not legitimate.  What is being said is that the way Rangers operated theirs was.  Not to mention the fact that they weren't registered with the SFA, therefore player registrations were not complete and as such players were inelligible. 

 

Calling it cheating is a stretch. Or are we also cheats for handing out contracts that we couldn't afford to pay and then diddling the tax man out of millions.

 

No, see above.

 

EBTs  were quite widely used, were they not? It isn't like it was just a thing that Rangers came up with and those in charge signed off on it in a giant conspiracy to cheat the other side of the old firm and Scottish football. 

 

I just think rag dolling a dead legal entity is pointless and will serve to do nothing other than please people that hate Rangers. It is nothing to do with politics or my love of the Monarchy. 

 

It's not simply about redressing cheating, it's also about how the SFA/SPL willfully turned a blind eye and have wilfully not sought redress.  I wonder why that is?  

[The Don]

It isn't like Rangers came up with EBTs themselves. At the time they were seen as legitimate. The Courts have now said otherwise. 

 

Calling it cheating is a stretch. Or are we also cheats for handing out contracts that we couldn't afford to pay and then diddling the tax man out of millions.

 

EBTs  were quite widely used, were they not? It isn't like it was just a thing that Rangers came up with and those in charge signed off on it in a giant conspiracy to cheat the other side of the old firm and Scottish football. 

 

I just think rag dolling a dead legal entity is pointless and will serve to do nothing other than please people that hate Rangers. It is nothing to do with politics or my love of the Monarchy. 

 

 

You're really not getting this are you?

 

EBT's have never been and are not illegal. Any company can use EBT's including football clubs. It is not the EBT that is illegal it is how Rangers used them that makes them illegal.

 

It really isn't too difficult to understand unless of course you don't want to see the truth.

[corryjambo]

Is the financial squeeze at Ibrox now hitting Mark Warburton?

 

MARK Warburton has admitted that Rangers could allow key players to leave in January - if the price is right.

The Ibrox boss told the Evening Times that Rangers could be forced to sell players if the ?right fee? is offered, saying: ?I don?t want anyone to leave the football club.

?If they leave for a sum that offers value, it means the recruitment has been right because they?ve produced a level of performance which has attracted a bigger club that can afford to pay us a fee above and beyond what we?d want to get for a player.

?If a player comes in and gets offered quadruple his wages to play down south, we aren?t going to stand in his way as long as we get the right fee.?

 

Very strange that FF considering Warburton was on the STV news on Monday night proclaiming that he would have no problems in purchasing a 7 figure player if he thought there was value in it, and he would take his proposal to the board of directors if he found such a player.

 

Now he is talking about selling players, quite a change of emphasis in 3 days, perhaps he took a proposal to the board and they told him the facts of life regarding their finances.

[reaths17]

It isn't like Rangers came up with EBTs themselves. At the time they were seen as legitimate. The Courts have now said otherwise. 

 

Calling it cheating is a stretch. Or are we also cheats for handing out contracts that we couldn't afford to pay and then diddling the tax man out of millions.

 

EBTs  were quite widely used, were they not? It isn't like it was just a thing that Rangers came up with and those in charge signed off on it in a giant conspiracy to cheat the other side of the old firm and Scottish football. 

 

I just think rag dolling a dead legal entity is pointless and will serve to do nothing other than please people that hate Rangers. It is nothing to do with politics or my love of the Monarchy.

that's quote(excuse) for quote(excuse), what rangers media has been saying and as has been pointed out to our many huns/mini huns on here, using the same nonsense, is a crock'o'sheit

[Bazzas right boot]

Folk on about stripping titles.

 

If Romanov was shown to have been at it with how he employed, say Miko, should we lose the 2006 cup win? If you start looking at the 'morality of actors' would Romanov's time at the helm be immoral? Certainly been argued that it was by Hibs fans, but if you start saying that Rangers were immoral and should therefore have titled stripped, then an extension of that argument would be possible to make to include hearts in that. Look at 2012 when we were having financial issues. Would clearly be an extension of the argument that rangers by not paying tax gained an advantage and then titles should be stripped, to say that we gained an advantage and our cup win should be stripped. It's not an argument I agree with, but it is there to be made. How can people not see that?

 

It's a very odd mindset - supporting trolls like Darren O'Dea and getting behind the idea of Celtic lobbying for titles to be stripped.

If hearts had broken the law then yes I would have no complaints, however if it was one player it would seem harsh.

 

Setting up what has now been confirmed as an illegal way to pay players and staff for years to get an advantage should have very serious consequences.

 

What hearts, Dundee, Motherwell went through wasn't illegal.

Rangers set up an illegal payment system, very serious and a clear sporting advantage.

 

Celtic should very aggrieved.

 

Every club is in debt.

If the institution that they owe money too goes into administration then calfskin the debt then that club is in trouble.

 

Ukios went into administration before us, then this had a snowball affect.

 

?30m or ?3m we would have ended up in administration as we couldn't afford to pay of the debt.

 

We then followed a legal process, taken the sporting penalty and hopefully have learned.

What rangers done was illegal, completely different all clubs have debts not all clubs avoid tax an ni by setting up illegal payment schemes.

I'm surprised so many don't see the difference.

Edited November 12, 2015 by hotcurrie

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Titles won't be scrapped, nor will there be an asterisk. The SFA will not be unveiling the pile of shite they swept under the carpet.

[Boris]

Titles won't be scrapped, nor will there be an asterisk. The SFA will not be unveiling the pile of shite they swept under the carpet.

 

I'm not so sure...it is very possible that there may be no other option.

 

It seems most people think that the adminstrators of our game are up to their knees in it (pardon the pun) so nothing short of a full, transparent enquiry will alleviate those concerns.

 

I think they have backed themselves into a corner with little if any wriggle room.

 

They should not be let off the hook.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

I'm not so sure...it is very possible that there may be no other option.

 

It seems most people think that the adminstrators of our game are up to their knees in it (pardon the pun) so nothing short of a full, transparent enquiry will alleviate those concerns.

 

I think they have backed themselves into a corner with little if any wriggle room.

 

They should not be let off the hook.

The clubs are the only bodies that can hold the SFA to account. As far as I can tell there is no appetite to revisit LNS. Edited November 12, 2015 by Geoff Kilpatrick

[Hackney Hearts]

This is all a bit Sergey, guys. 

 

 

No, this is real.

 

Do people honestly want them stripped of their titles? 

 

 

 

Declared void? Yes, obviously.

The game in Scotland is a big enough joke without all this shite.

 

 

 

We will be a joke of FIFA proportions if we don't put this right.

 

 

Move on.  

 

 

Seems to be Rangers new motto.

[Unknown user]

It isn't like Rangers came up with EBTs themselves. At the time they were seen as legitimate. The Courts have now said otherwise.

 

Calling it cheating is a stretch. Or are we also cheats for handing out contracts that we couldn't afford to pay and then diddling the tax man out of millions.

 

EBTs were quite widely used, were they not? It isn't like it was just a thing that Rangers came up with and those in charge signed off on it in a giant conspiracy to cheat the other side of the old firm and Scottish football.

 

I just think rag dolling a dead legal entity is pointless and will serve to do nothing other than please people that hate Rangers. It is nothing to do with politics or my love of the Monarchy.

EBTs are legal.

For providing non contractual benefits to employees in case an employer wants, fir example, to help out a loyal employee who's fallen on hard times.

 

Using them to evade tax on earnings is not legal.

 

But, of course, you knew that

[reaths17]

The clubs are the only bodies that can hold the SFA to account. As far as I can tell there is no appetite to revisit LNS.

mr black said that the EBT's were set up to gain an advantage they otherwise wouldn't have got, which sounds to me like a deliberate act.

 

tax evasion is a criminal offence, if the the current decision is upheld, murray and all who helped setting this up could well see further problems, as a large portion of those suspected culprits who were involved have sat on every branch of rule involving Scottish fitba then by law the SPL/SFA etc may find themselves accountable, covering up a crime is also illegal.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

I'd let Oldco keep their titles, it really doesn't bother me. They tried to exploit a dodgy loophole to buy success, discovered the loophole was possibly illegal leading to a large tax bill, fell behind with other tax bills and couldn't be rescued as a going concern. They are no more, Rangers are dead.

 

But that means Sevco have no history, other than the 2nd and 1st division titles since they were founded to replace the previous incarnation that died.

 

They can't have it both ways.

 

What dodgy loophole? 

[Hackney Hearts]

The clubs are the only bodies that can hold the SFA to account. As far as I can tell there is no appetite to revisit LNS.

 

Not sure most of the clubs had an appetite to stop Rangers being allowed straight back into the top league after liquidation - the fans applied sufficient pressure.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

mr black said that the EBT's were set up to gain an advantage they otherwise wouldn't have got, which sounds to me like a deliberate act.

 

tax evasion is a criminal offence, if the the current decision is upheld, murray and all who helped setting this up could well see further problems, as a large portion of those suspected culprits who were involved have sat on every branch of rule involving Scottish fitba then by law the SPL/SFA etc may find themselves accountable, covering up a crime is also illegal.

The EBTs legality or otherwise is irrelevant to the whole issue of the uncontractual payments!

[BangkokHearts]

Very strange that FF considering Warburton was on the STV news on Monday night proclaiming that he would have no problems in purchasing a 7 figure player if he thought there was value in it, and he would take his proposal to the board of directors if he found such a player.

 

Now he is talking about selling players, quite a change of emphasis in 3 days, perhaps he took a proposal to the board and they told him the facts of life regarding their finances.

 

Maybe they were going to use an EBT to pay his wages and that is no longer an option?

[The Don]

Not sure most of the clubs had an appetite to stop Rangers being allowed straight back into the top league after liquidation - the fans applied sufficient pressure.

  

Correct.

 

Enough fan pressure on our respective clubs will see them taking action. That is IF the SFA and SPFL decide not to do anything. As people have pointed out on here and in certain media outlets, what remains to be seen is IF UEFA or other bodies were to become involved. At the moment there is a big tide building against corruption from within the sport at many different levels. To simply say there will be no action is ludicrous, unless of course your a wishful thinking hun or have a crystal ball. 

Edited November 12, 2015 by Rudi-Mental

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Not sure most of the clubs had an appetite to stop Rangers being allowed straight back into the top league after liquidation - the fans applied sufficient pressure.

Agreed but there's a feeling of ennui about the whole thing. There wasn't when the old club was liquidated and the Sevco parachute was attempted.

[H1B5 Owner]

Citing LNS in Chuck Green hearing. That'll settle it then.

 

@jamesdoleman: Wolffe for RIFC, cites Lord Nimmo Smith stating "The club has an existence independent of the corporate entity that owns it."

[davieholt]

Agreed but there's a feeling of ennui about the whole thing. There wasn't when the old club was liquidated and the Sevco parachute was attempted.

 

In addition, at that time, fans were prepared to threaten clubs with ST boycotts. I doubt our support would do anything similar now... 

[Tasavallan]

It isn't like Rangers came up with EBTs themselves. At the time they were seen as legitimate. The Courts have now said otherwise. 

 

Calling it cheating is a stretch. Or are we also cheats for handing out contracts that we couldn't afford to pay and then diddling the tax man out of millions.

 

EBTs  were quite widely used, were they not? It isn't like it was just a thing that Rangers came up with and those in charge signed off on it in a giant conspiracy to cheat the other side of the old firm and Scottish football. 

 

I just think rag dolling a dead legal entity is pointless and will serve to do nothing other than please people that hate Rangers. It is nothing to do with politics or my love of the Monarchy. 

 

I never thought I'd be defending Rangers but Employee Benefit Trusts were legitimate then and are legitimate now.  When SDM first issued Rangers' employees with EBTs they were legitimate and they were still legitimate in 2011 when he sold the club to Whyte. 

 

The issue that HMRC is pursuing through the Courts is the payment of outstanding tax due against the EBTs. The previous judgment was that tax was not required to be repaid.  The appeal decision is that HMRC are entitled to go after the non-paid tax.    

[Unknown user]

I never thought I'd be defending Rangers but Employee Benefit Trusts were legitimate then and are legitimate now. When SDM first issued Rangers' employees with EBTs they were legitimate and they were still legitimate in 2011 when he sold the club to Whyte.

 

The issue that HMRC is pursuing through the Courts is the payment of outstanding tax due against the EBTs. The previous judgment was that tax was not required to be repaid. The appeal decision is that HMRC are entitled to go after the non-paid tax.

You're missing the point. The way they used them was not legitimate.

 

The whole crux of this is whether the money paid was earnings.

 

If it was earnings, EBTs are not appropriate and this is tax evasion.

 

If it was not earnings, EBTs are entirely appropriate.

 

But EBTs were, and still are, a legitimate mechanism in themselves

[Diadora Van Basten]

I never thought I'd be defending Rangers but Employee Benefit Trusts were legitimate then and are legitimate now. When SDM first issued Rangers' employees with EBTs they were legitimate and they were still legitimate in 2011 when he sold the club to Whyte.

 

The issue that HMRC is pursuing through the Courts is the payment of outstanding tax due against the EBTs. The previous judgment was that tax was not required to be repaid. The appeal decision is that HMRC are entitled to go after the non-paid tax.

The previous judgement is not relevant any more as it has been superseded by the appeal.

 

This is the way the law works it is 1-0 to HMRC not 2-1 to Rangers as per Roger Mitchell.

 

The EBTs were never legitimate as has been confirmed in the recent ruling.

Edited November 12, 2015 by Sandi

[Seymour M Hersh]

The guy with a picture of the Queen and her consort in his avatar doesn't want Rangers titles stripped. There's a surprise

 

I think that's more to annoy the Nats on here.

[Hackney Hearts]

Agreed but there's a feeling of ennui about the whole thing. There wasn't when the old club was liquidated and the Sevco parachute was attempted.

 

Strange thing this ennui. I might even have been suffering from a bit of it myself - but guess what shook me out of it? The horrendous attempts at propaganda from the SMSM - the bare-faced, outrageous, patronising defence mechanisms that have bombarded us since the CoS ruling. That and of course the complete lack - yet again - of any semblance of contrition from Ibrox. That "we will not accept or countenance" statement... don't get me started. But at least Rangers have a right to be wildly biased in this - the media don't.

 

There is a sense now in which - for non-Rangers fans - there will always be a figurative asterisk against these titles in any case, whether or not an official one is added. But our authorities have a chance here to show that, just occasionally, they have the ability to apply rules without fear or favour and thereby restore a tiny bit of faith.

[Ibrahim Tall]

That is utterly hilarious! I honestly can't believe that's a real article.

 

Actually, which clubs would be due bonus payments anyway, other than Sellik? Bearing in mind they couldn't award cups to any other side, because each side beaten in any round by RFC could lay claim to that trophy. What complete and utter horseshite!

 

It won't be just Celtic, every club will have paid bonuses for something over the years - avoid relegation/top 6 finish/top 3 etc. If Rangers were to forfeit every match with an EBT player then any club over the years could argue it wouldn't have been relegated and if not bonuses would have been due.

 

It's not a reason not to act but it probably does concern the likes of Dunfermline, Livingston, Falkirk etc in particular. Especially given they're not going to recover the lost income that would have paid the bonus.

[...a bit disco]

James Doleman ?@jamesdoleman  33s34 seconds ago

Brown,, says the indemnity would be needed, for example, to allow Green to defend a civil claim by Craig Whyte and protect company assets.

[269miles]

This blog is well worth a read to understand where we are with the fallout from the CoS decision

 

http://twohundredpercent.net/?p=28380

Cheers, very interesting. From that article -

 

Who knew there was another Sevco ? Type Sevco 1270 into Google an see what comes up. No wonder Deidco obstructed and delayed. They must have known in 2005 the club was about to go bust (but not die, obviously) given what had happened to Arsenal. Some good stuff from the Guardian on Arsenal & their "Sevco".

 

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2005/sep/09/newsstory.sport9

Edited November 12, 2015 by 269miles

[...a bit disco]

James Doleman ?@jamesdoleman  2m2 minutes ago

Brown: If the charge against Green is proved "the business and assets [of Rangers] would be the proceeds of crime,"

 

James Doleman ?@jamesdoleman  2m2 minutes ago

Brown 2/2 "This would open the door for a claim by the liquidators on the assets."

[Rods]

I'd let Oldco keep their titles, it really doesn't bother me. They tried to exploit a dodgy loophole to buy success, discovered the loophole was possibly illegal leading to a large tax bill, fell behind with other tax bills and couldn't be rescued as a going concern. They are no more, Rangers are dead.

 

But that means Sevco have no history, other than the 2nd and 1st division titles since they were founded to replace the previous incarnation that died.

 

They can't have it both ways.

Double

Edited November 12, 2015 by Rents

[Rods]

I'd let Oldco keep their titles, it really doesn't bother me. They tried to exploit a dodgy loophole to buy success, discovered the loophole was possibly illegal leading to a large tax bill, fell behind with other tax bills and couldn't be rescued as a going concern. They are no more, Rangers are dead.

 

But that means Sevco have no history, other than the 2nd and 1st division titles since they were founded to replace the previous incarnation that died.

 

They can't have it both ways.

 

Spot on

 

Further to this if titles are not stripped and it is maintained they are the same club then the same club should be punished for their tax avoidance the same way Livingston have quite recently. You cant have it both ways.

[Alva-Jambo]

I feel sure this particular issue of non payment of tax etc has a long long time left to run.  But I suspect whatever happense, the present  newco or sevco people will walk through it

with no problems. 

However the other " Horseman"  or black swan, is clearly their Nemesis - Mr M Ashley/  A man agrieved and on a personal mission with a billion qujid and lawyers behind him at every move. 

 

When Odyssus left Troy .. oh we dont have time for that just now.  !   

[Jambo-Jimbo]

Correct.

 

Enough fan pressure on our respective clubs will see them taking action. That is IF the SFA and SPFL decide not to do anything. As people have pointed out on here and in certain media outlets, what remains to be seen is IF UEFA or other bodies were to become involved. At the moment there is a big tide building against corruption from within the sport at many different levels. To simply say there will be no action is ludicrous, unless of course your a wishful thinking hun or have a crystal ball. 

 

 

Times have changed with the rise of and usage of social media and blogs etc, this in turn makes more and more organisations more accountable to the general public as things can be shared and discussed online by a great number of people in multiple locations very easily, this in turn makes it much harder for organisations to simply either ignore the public or to just try and sweep things under the carpet.

 

Social media campaigns can become global in a matter of hours and these in turn can apply pressure upon sponsors and the likes who certainly don't want the adverse global attention which can happen if they are associated with a dodgy organisation.

I firmly believe that there has been a sea-change and the ordinary Scottish Football fan is fed up with the continual and blatant favouritism and indeed cheating by the custodians of our game.

The SFA would be incredibly stupid if they were to try and bury this and as for the SMSM and their blatant propaganda and downright lies, the public will remember.

[Hackney Hearts]

This is the way the law works it is 1-0 to HMRC not 2-1 to Rangers as per Roger Mitchell.

 

One of the many weird things Mitchell said!

 

I'm sure there were a dozen laws passed over the centuries saying that the death penalty was ok - that doesn't mean that it's now 12-1 in favour, and we can still execute people.

[Don Dan]

It isn't like Rangers came up with EBTs themselves. At the time they were seen as legitimate. The Courts have now said otherwise. 

 

Calling it cheating is a stretch. Or are we also cheats for handing out contracts that we couldn't afford to pay and then diddling the tax man out of millions.

 

 

EBTs  were quite widely used, were they not? It isn't like it was just a thing that Rangers came up with and those in charge signed off on it in a giant conspiracy to cheat the other side of the old firm and Scottish football. 

 

 

I just think rag dolling a dead legal entity is pointless and will serve to do nothing other than please people that hate Rangers. It is nothing to do with politics or my love of the Monarchy.

 

 

Rag dolling is exactly what is needed. There's an example to be made that cheating in any guise will not be tolerated and those caught will at the very least lose any gains they made from cheating. The punishments in other sports should be used as a guideline and it wouldn't surprise me if sponsors start withdrawn their support from Rangers and I mean today's version as they now hold the tainted titles and trophies.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

 

James Doleman ?@jamesdoleman  2m2 minutes ago

Brown: If the charge against Green is proved "the business and assets [of Rangers] would be the proceeds of crime,"

 

James Doleman ?@jamesdoleman  2m2 minutes ago

Brown 2/2 "This would open the door for a claim by the liquidators on the assets."

 

 

So BDO could get Ibrokes, which some of us thought could happen if Chuckles is found guilty.