Is PS the man to win us trophies?

[Drylaw Hearts]

Aye, but he is though.

 

It really is still a no.

 

I know your desperate for it be a yes but it's officially a no.

 

 

:justno:

[Guest Just Came To Say Kello]

I've got some vintage Adidas Drylaws you might be interested in mate?

[I.J]

It really is still a no.

 

I know your desperate for it be a yes but it's officially a no.

 

 

:justno:

 

 

Aye, I get all that, but he is though, eh?

 

Wait, are we including Bobby Moncur in this? Getting him out of Carlisle United was a pretty big coup.

 

 

[Drylaw Hearts]

I've got some vintage Adidas Drylaws you might be interested in mate?

 

I've never really been a fan of Adidas tbh.

[Drylaw Hearts]

Aye, I get all that, but he is though, eh?

 

Wait, are we including Bobby Moncur in this? Getting him out of Carlisle United was a pretty big coup.

 

No.

 

But we are including former Manager of the Year in England.......Mr George Burley.

 

I don't need to mention any more to prove my point.

[I.J]

Burley was, and is, an absolute holocaust of a manager though. Only lasted what, a dozen games before his gin soaked lifestyle caught up with him?

 

Sergio, having managed possibly the biggest club side in Portugal, is on track to do that by the start of next month.

 

The evidence stacks up, and clearly, as I've stated before, Paulo Sergio is the biggest managerial appointment in HMFC's proud history.

 

You can take that one to the bank.

[Drylaw Hearts]

Burley was, and is, an absolute holocaust of a manager though. Only lasted what, a dozen games before his gin soaked lifestyle caught up with him?

 

Sergio, having managed possibly the biggest club side in Portugal, is on track to do that by the start of next month.

 

The evidence stacks up, and clearly, as I've stated before, Paulo Sergio is the biggest managerial appointment in HMFC's proud history.

 

You can take that one to the bank.

 

Good lord.

 

Sergio only managed 5 more games at SL before being punted for falling 20-odd points behind Porto.

 

He was also eliminated in the Europa League by Rangers and that is almost flippin impossible nowadays.

 

I think it's in your best interests to reconsider your choice. Your reputation is firmly on the line here.

[I.J]

Good lord.

 

Sergio only managed 5 more games at SL before being punted for falling 20-odd points behind Porto.

 

He was also eliminated in the Europa League by Rangers and that is almost flippin impossible nowadays.

 

I think it's in your best interests to reconsider your choice. Your reputation is firmly on the line here.

 

Stop trying to get the last word. I'm going to wait until you go to bed, then say, in big bold letters:

 

"PAULO SERGIO IS THE BIGGEST MANAGERIAL APPOINTMENT IN THE HISTORY OF HMFC (unless we include Bobby Moncur)"

 

Then I'll win this little battle.

 

 

Mind you, I'm a bit worried about my reputation being on the line here. Are we talking about my reputation as most handsome human being on the planet, or my reputation as being an annoying **** on Kickback?

 

Let's get this cleared up before I go any further.

[Drylaw Hearts]

Stop trying to get the last word. I'm going to wait until you go to bed, then say, in big bold letters:

 

"PAULO SERGIO IS THE BIGGEST MANAGERIAL APPOINTMENT IN THE HISTORY OF HMFC (unless we include Bobby Moncur)"

 

Then I'll win this little battle.

 

 

Mind you, I'm a bit worried about my reputation being on the line here. Are we talking about my reputation as most handsome human being on the planet, or my reputation as being an annoying **** on Kickback?

 

Let's get this cleared up before I go any further.

 

Battle ?

 

There is no battle - the case was closed as soon as I mentioned George Burley and backed it up with extremely strong examples.

 

17 matches in charge of Sporting Lisbon is all you have - GB managed at a higher level and for longer plus he won a prestigious award at that level.

 

[scott_jambo]

Of course they do.....but Manager of the Year ahead of Wenger and SAF is some achievement.

 

Sacked by Sporting after a few months isn't.

 

Ahead of treble winning Gerard Houllier to be exact.

[Drylaw Hearts]

Ahead of treble winning Gerard Houllier to be exact.

 

I didn't know that.

 

Thanks.

[scott_jambo]

I've got some vintage Adidas Drylaws you might be interested in mate?

 

I like IJ's cardigans, clearly from the post-modern Carricknowe-Drumbrae roundabout era.

[scott_jambo]

I didn't know that.

 

Thanks.

 

 

Paulo Sergio still has it all to prove and I'm not convinced Vlad will give him the time or resources to do this, so my question is - why is he here?

[Guest Just Came To Say Kello]

I like IJ's cardigans, clearly from the post-modern Carricknowe-Drumbrae roundabout era.

 

He's got an amazing pair of Tacchini Haymarket trakkie re-issues. You should check them out mate.

 

Edinburgh chic.

[Drylaw Hearts]

 

Paulo Sergio still has it all to prove and I'm not convinced Vlad will give him the time or resources to do this, so my question is - why is he here?

 

Pass.

 

I could understand why Burley came to Hearts - he had been promised a shed load of dough to challenge the OF and had a blank canvas to work with.

 

I'm not sure why a guy with the alleged profile etc that some think Paulo Sergio has would have any interest in Hearts.

 

Surely he would have been a shoe-in for the Porto job as he is so highly rated in his homeland ?

 

 

I think his exploits are being exaggerated a bit.

[JamboAl]

Pass.

 

I could understand why Burley came to Hearts - he had been promised a shed load of dough to challenge the OF and had a blank canvas to work with.

 

I'm not sure why a guy with the alleged profile etc that some think Paulo Sergio has would have any interest in Hearts.

 

Surely he would have been a shoe-in for the Porto job as he is so highly rated in his homeland ?

 

 

I think his exploits are being exaggerated a bit.

 

DH, you really need to move on.

Burley must have spent 20 odd years in management and has won nothing! Absolutely nothing!

The Hearts team he had, didn't exist until the Wednesday (v Middlesbrough) before the season began and arose mainly because VR got in some big players like Rudi, Janni etc and his tenure only lasted about a dozen games.

Yes he did have one decent season with Ipswich but still won nowt; in my book that's a poor hit rate which JJ beat and so did Valdas.

Because we had a good start to the season, you are speculating we might have won the league, or whatever, but it doesn't usually work out that way. We had a horrendous start to the 86 season(?) and damned near won the league. Give it a break and stop dreaming.

[Drylaw Hearts]

DH, you really need to move on.

Burley must have spent 20 odd years in management and has won nothing! Absolutely nothing!

The Hearts team he had, didn't exist until the Wednesday (v Middlesbrough) before the season began and arose mainly because VR got in some big players like Rudi, Janni etc and his tenure only lasted about a dozen games.

Yes he did have one decent season with Ipswich but still won nowt; in my book that's a poor hit rate which JJ beat and so did Valdas.

Because we had a good start to the season, you are speculating we might have won the league, or whatever, but it doesn't usually work out that way. We had a horrendous start to the 86 season(?) and damned near won the league. Give it a break and stop dreaming.

 

 

You sure make me laugh.

 

1) Are you saying it was VR who identified key players like Rudi and Bednar ? There is no doubt Janny was a VR pick though.

2) JJ tried and failed miserably in the EPL.

3) Please don't say Valdas was a better Manager than GB. Please. I couldn't handle it.

4) I haven't speculated we would have won the SPL with Burley - that is not what this was discussion was about.

 

I really think you should stay clear of my posts as you continually make a real breast of yourself by getting so excited at attempting to shoot me down you don't bother reading the contents of the threads.

[Howdy Doody Jambo]

I've seen loads of comments on a number of threads which basically say that Paulo Sergio isn't the man to take us forward, win trophies.

 

Well, not only do I think that it is a ridiclous comment to make when you take into account the number of games he has been in charge of but I would really like to ask people who they think would be a good alternative?

 

I mean, really, who out there could do a job for Hearts within our budget?

 

I wait in anticipation.

 

 

It would not matter if we had Alex Ferguson , Jose Mourino or Arsen Wenger in charge , they would not win thye SPL with the squad we have now

We may win the east of scotland shield but thats about it

[david mcgee]

 

You sure make me laugh.

 

1) Are you saying it was VR who identified key players like Rudi and Bednar ? There is no doubt Janny was a VR pick though.

2) JJ tried and failed miserably in the EPL.

3) Please don't say Valdas was a better Manager than GB. Please. I couldn't handle it.

4) I haven't speculated we would have won the SPL with Burley - that is not what this was discussion was about.

 

I really think you should stay clear of my posts as you continually make a real breast of yourself by getting so excited at attempting to shoot me down you don't bother reading the contents of the threads.

JJ and Craig Levein for that matter were put in charge of teams that were firmly on the massive reduction of salary route.

 

JJ in particular had players on massive salaries that he was told to offload and replace with far cheaper options and at the same time keep a very small fish in a very large pond.

 

The pond being the EPL ( the most competitive league in the world), with Bradford, who with the greatest respect are hardly a name that sends shivers down the spine. ( actually thought he did a good job under the circumstances)

 

If success is defined by trophies Valdas and Jeffries obviously trump Burley.

 

However there cant be a Jambo out there who didnt wish to see Burley continue to a season ending conclusion, because what we were witnessing early season was like a dream.

 

The players,the manager,the chairman and marketing manager were doing an amazing job.

 

Or as Vlad told us, because we were delusional, they were not.

 

Pressley, Hartley and Gordon ( the back bone) were actually riddled with Spina bifida, the manager had problems so serious nobody was allowed to divulge them, the chairman was indeed a slavering maverik MP and firework Phil was actually a damp sqib.

 

We were in terminal decline but the fans could not see it.

 

Vlad had to step in and appoint Valdas,Rix,Duffy, Csaba,( memory clouds how many more) and in some i had faith, more faith than the person who appointed them in the first place because they were all uncerimonily jettisoned.

 

Now we have Senior Sergio, and again i have faith, for gods sake Vlad give him a chance stop throwing your toy about and lets see what he can do.

[southside1874]

I think GB brought great football to Tynie and had the respect of some great players. Fireworks Phil and Foulkes(i know) all played a part and worked hard for each other. A team is not the sum of the individual parts and these three played it well and gave confidence to the team. I don't think Vlad understood the Scottish game as well as he does now and his conclusions probably spot on. You can have the best team on the planet but in Scottish football, it appears you have to give the weegies their place.

 

So we have had our fair amount of managers and its difficult for a new manager to come in with the players in place, but I think Jim has left us in as good a place as any manager since Burley and they both made the mistake of being happy with a draw in Glasgow. I think Sergio asks more of the players and it will cause problems initially as the transition creates problems for individuals in the team. The players on the pitch are responding to him during the week. This is what he is measured on and this is his choice to move the team forward. We will probably hit a blip but I think it could come good if he can bring in his own players.

[david mcgee]

I think GB brought great football to Tynie and had the respect of some great players. Fireworks Phil and Foulkes(i know) all played a part and worked hard for each other. A team is not the sum of the individual parts and these three played it well and gave confidence to the team. I don't think Vlad understood the Scottish game as well as he does now and his conclusions probably spot on. You can have the best team on the planet but in Scottish football, it appears you have to give the weegies their place.

 

So we have had our fair amount of managers and its difficult for a new manager to come in with the players in place, but I think Jim has left us in as good a place as any manager since Burley and they both made the mistake of being happy with a draw in Glasgow. I think Sergio asks more of the players and it will cause problems initially as the transition creates problems for individuals in the team. The players on the pitch are responding to him during the week. This is what he is measured on and this is his choice to move the team forward. We will probably hit a blip but I think it could come good if he can bring in his own players.

I dont think Hearts should ever be happy with a draw in the SPL, we should always be looking to win games.

 

However, i think every fan would take drawing our matches in Glasgow and winning our games against the old firm at home.

 

If it were to win us the league i would put up with getting beat in all our games in Glasgow but winning the rest.

 

Its absolute nonsence to sack a manager because he only achieved a draw at Ibrox or Celtic Park, Inverness or Easter Road might be a different matter.

 

I have absolutely no respect for either of the old firm and would only ask our management and players to go into these games with a similar level of disdain.

[Sydney]

In terms of pedigree and profile, Paulo Sergio is the biggest managerial appointment in HMFC's history.

 

 

He may well turn out to be successful for us, he may not. In terms of "biggest managerial appointment" though, I dont agree. He's probably up there with Csaba and below Willie Ormond and George Burley. He had 10 months with Sporting Lisbon and got horsed out of Europe by Rangers, and was sacked when he was about 30 points behind the league leaders. Some may say that is good preparation for the job at Tynie though.

[I.J]

He may well turn out to be successful for us, he may not. In terms of "biggest managerial appointment" though, I dont agree. He's probably up there with Csaba and below Willie Ormond and George Burley. He had 10 months with Sporting Lisbon and got horsed out of Europe by Rangers, and was sacked when he was about 30 points behind the league leaders. Some may say that is good preparation for the job at Tynie though.

 

They'd be crazy fools.

[Coco]

Joe Jordan was the highest profile managerial appointment we've had.

 

Not for his managerial record but for his playing record.

 

Actually, Rixxy might have had the next most column inches in his record ...

[Erik]

Given 5 years at the helm and some 'proper' backing.... I have no doubts that PS would bring us silverware.

 

However, the problem remains that, at Hearts, you just dont get that kinda time. Managers come in and are expected to deliver the goods with whatever dross is available to them at that time.

 

Even if PS unearthed a few hidden gems within the squad - they'd have 'For Sale' stickers on them before you could blink an eyelid. The days of building a squad which will be around for a few years are long gone.

[K1874M]

Given 5 years at the helm and some 'proper' backing.... I have no doubts that PS would bring us silverware.

 

However, the problem remains that, at Hearts, you just dont get that kinda time. Managers come in and are expected to deliver the goods with whatever dross is available to them at that time.

 

Even if PS unearthed a few hidden gems within the squad - they'd have 'For Sale' stickers on them before you could blink an eyelid. The days of building a squad which will be around for a few years are long gone.

With proper backing and 5 years in charge I think any of our last 9 managers could win us a trophy. In fact, I could do it due to Scottish football being Pish.

 

I've yet to see anyone explain where their belief in ps comes from.

[Erik]

With proper backing and 5 years in charge I think any of our last 9 managers could win us a trophy. In fact, I could do it due to Scottish football being Pish.

 

I've yet to see anyone explain where their belief in ps comes from.

 

I agree with you - given time and backing, I think most competent managers could take us to silverware.

 

My point stays the same though - the days of building a team and being given the time and support needed are long gone.

[Cut The Crap]

Not much evidence to suggest he knows what he's doing so far. His team is starting to play like Csaba's but without the flair. I suspect he'll be gone by the time the clocks go forward next year.

 

Hope I'm proved wrong though!

[jamboinglasgow]

Right, who fancies a pre-emptive sacking of Paulo as according to this thread he will be out the door soon.

 

I am optimistic, given time (yes I know,we have vlad) he will do really well. But I do see in Vlads last two managers that he does give them a chance, but when there is little sign of real progress then he removes them. So as long as Paulo doesn't have a poor slump he will be fine.

[Shaggy2]

He may well turn out to be successful for us, he may not. In terms of "biggest managerial appointment" though, I dont agree. He's probably up there with Csaba and below Willie Ormond and George Burley. He had 10 months with Sporting Lisbon and got horsed out of Europe by Rangers, and was sacked when he was about 30 points behind the league leaders. Some may say that is good preparation for the job at Tynie though.

72 posts to mention the first manager to return unbeaten from the World Cup without the trophy!

 

That is I hope more down to the age of posters rather than actual belief that an ex-player of Sporting getting a shot at managing them, and failing spectacularly, gives a higher pedigree than managing at the WC Finals when there were only 24 teams.

 

Paulo is an ambitious appointment who talks a good game but in terms of ACTUAL managerial pedigree nowhere near top of the list even at Hearts!

[K1874M]

Again, people are saying... "given time he'll do well"

 

Based on what? I'm not saying he wont just want to see where the faith comes from.... or is it blind faith? I've been stuck in London and not seen any games live, just TV so really keen to hear why people think he'll succeed?

[Erik]

Again, people are saying... "given time he'll do well"

 

Based on what?

 

Based on the fact that we have the best bunch of players in the SPL outwith the OF by a country mile.

 

ANY half decent, competent manager (which I think we can probably all agree PS is) - could lead our team to success given the right backing and the right length of time.

[Rods]

I dont beleive PS will suceed at Hearts I pray I am wrong of course.

 

He is trying to bring in this passing style which will take time and obviously we need the players to fit this system. This also means time to get his own guys in ie foreigners who take time to settle.

 

All of the above is based on him getting time and unfortunately I think everybody will agree time he wont get for sure.

 

I forsee maybe scrapping third then PS to turn into Csaba and bumping his gums about players he has wanted etc.

 

My prediction January next year PS will be out and trophyless.

[K1874M]

Based on the fact that we have the best bunch of players in the SPL outwith the OF by a country mile.

 

ANY half decent, competent manager (which I think we can probably all agree PS is) - could lead our team to success given the right backing and the right length of time.

Even I know the players bit... still doesn't enlighten me to PS and his qualities.

[Erik]

Even I know the players bit... still doesn't enlighten me to PS and his qualities.

 

I think you're missing my point.

 

What i'm saying is that its not really about "him and his qualities".

 

PS is not the messiah. He doesnt need to be.

 

"given time he'll do well" is true becuase of how rank the rest of the league is. We shouldnt need a word class manager to seal 3rd place with ease in this league.

 

A distinctly average manager should be able to lead a Hearts team to 3rd place and a couple of visits to Hampden.

[JamboAl]

 

You sure make me laugh.

1) Are you saying it was VR who identified key players like Rudi and Bednar ? There is no doubt Janny was a VR pick though.

2) JJ tried and failed miserably in the EPL.

3) Please don't say Valdas was a better Manager than GB. Please. I couldn't handle it.

4) I haven't speculated we would have won the SPL with Burley - that is not what this was discussion was about.

 

I really think you should stay clear of my posts as you continually make a real breast of yourself by getting so excited at attempting to shoot me down you don't bother reading the contents of the threads.

 

Well I really have achieved something.

1. I am saying GB was well and truly propped up by VR.

2. JJ was at Bradford for 5 mins - a failing club with a failing Chairman.

3.I'm not saying Valdas/JJ, are better managers than anyone. I am saying both have a better hit rate in terms of trophies than GB. I hope you can handle that FACT.

4. I think there's a good reason you shouldn't have speculated he would have won the league but if he had, it would at least have been something to his name.

I have read the contents of the thread and notice it was you who presented GB as some sort of genius. His record yells out that that is not correct.

[Getintaethem]

It's a bit early to tell TBH. One thing is for sure he seems willing to put in every effort to take our club forward. He seems capable of pin-pointing our current players weaknesses ie. Templetons distribution, Suttons lack of movement. He also seems to be a good communicator which is important if he wishes to impose his style on the squad.

 

The way I see this season is a learning one for Sergio. He needs this season to assess his squad and work out the areas where he needs new signings to compliment his style. He also needs time to adjust to the different style of football played in this country, like I say it's all about gaining knowledge of his players and enviroment this season. We may see a couple of additions coming in in January but I think it will be next Summer when major changes in personnel will happen and next season will be the time to judge his true value to the club.

 

Having said that, I don't think PS can afford to fail to qualify for Europe this season and do well in at least one cup competition, if he wishes to be given the time for his vision for the club to come to fruition.

[Gizmo]

The away performance against Spurs was very encouraging, yet we don't seem to have yet managed to replicate that performance in the SPL. Possibly that's because of the football played up here, but PS's personnel choices sometimes seem to go against his philosophy. Perhaps he is playing experienced guys to keep the points coming in whilst he works hard on the training pitches to mould our younger players into playing his way. I hope that's the case.

 

Of course, as Le Guen found out, any long term attempt to change the way football is played here is not backed by patience from the board/fans.

[Drylaw Hearts]

Well I really have achieved something.

1. I am saying GB was well and truly propped up by VR.

2. JJ was at Bradford for 5 mins - a failing club with a failing Chairman.

3.I'm not saying Valdas/JJ, are better managers than anyone. I am saying both have a better hit rate in terms of trophies than GB. I hope you can handle that FACT.

4. I think there's a good reason you shouldn't have speculated he would have won the league but if he had, it would at least have been something to his name.

I have read the contents of the thread and notice it was you who presented GB as some sort of genius. His record yells out that that is not correct.

 

1) The early achievements of that team were down to the Manger building a squad with the financial backing of the owner. There will be few on here who have seen a better Hearts team - GB has to take a huge amount of credit for that.

2) JJ was at Bradford for a year.

3) If we won the SC under Valdas I'm pretty sure GB would have won it - if he hadn't been stupidly sacked.

4) I haven't speculated he would have won the SPL.

 

I haven't presented GB as a genius however there are one or two who are presenting PS as a genius and he's achieved even less in the game than GB.

[Radioactive Mince]

We've still got a fair chance of doing the treble.

 

Vlad and Serge will accept nothing less, after all.

 

Pauline Serbia will go to the very top of football management, of that I am certain.

 

Let's just enjoy him while he's here lads. It won't be long before the big guns come a-calling.

[JamboAl]

1) The early achievements of that team were down to the Manger building a squad with the financial backing of the owner. There will be few on here who have seen a better Hearts team - GB has to take a huge amount of credit for that.

2) JJ was at Bradford for a year.

3) If we won the SC under Valdas I'm pretty sure GB would have won it - if he hadn't been stupidly sacked.

4) I haven't speculated he would have won the SPL.

 

I haven't presented GB as a genius however there are one or two who are presenting PS as a genius and he's achieved even less in the game than GB.

 

1) The owner, allegedly, brought in players of his own and GB wouldn't have managed without that. Would GB take the credit for the Livingston result? I repeat he has won NOTHING all his managerial career. What part of that don't you understand?

 

2) You chose to tell me JJ was there for a year but omitted to comment on the fact that the club was out of its depth and you made no reference to the Chairman's role.

 

3) We did win the cup under Valdas: that is fact. GB had/has never won anything in his managerial puff (that is fact) and even lost a LC tie to Livingston so what makes you think he would have won the Scottish cup?

 

4) You have speculated he would have won the Scottish cup when he wasn't even here and the draw hadn't been made but you didn't speculate on the league when we were top ie after admitting he was building a squad with the owner's financial backing.

 

You do your best to promote GB and seem reluctant to put the past behind you; it's gone, let's move on and, like any good HMFC supporter, back this manager at least until it becomes clear he's not fit for the job. He is foreign and needs time to settle into our ways and to get to know our playing staff. I like some of these things he's doing and wonder about others but for God's sake give the guy some time as he's been here for little more than a month.

George is gone. Live with it.

 

PS - (that means post script not Paulo Sergio)

Were you in GB's drinking circle?

[Drylaw Hearts]

1) The owner, allegedly, brought in players of his own and GB wouldn't have managed without that. Would GB take the credit for the Livingston result? I repeat he has won NOTHING all his managerial career. What part of that don't you understand?

 

2) You chose to tell me JJ was there for a year but omitted to comment on the fact that the club was out of its depth and you made no reference to the Chairman's role.

 

3) We did win the cup under Valdas: that is fact. GB had/has never won anything in his managerial puff (that is fact) and even lost a LC tie to Livingston so what makes you think he would have won the Scottish cup?

 

4) You have speculated he would have won the Scottish cup when he wasn't even here and the draw hadn't been made but you didn't speculate on the league when we were top ie after admitting he was building a squad with the owner's financial backing.

 

You do your best to promote GB and seem reluctant to put the past behind you; it's gone, let's move on and, like any good HMFC supporter, back this manager at least until it becomes clear he's not fit for the job. He is foreign and needs time to settle into our ways and to get to know our playing staff. I like some of these things he's doing and wonder about others but for God's sake give the guy some time as he's been here for little more than a month.

George is gone. Live with it.

 

PS - (that means post script not Paulo Sergio)

Were you in GB's drinking circle?

 

You just haven't grasped this thread at all.

 

Let me simplify for JamboAl....

 

Poster #1 insists Paulo Sergio is the biggest appointment in Hearts history.

 

Poster #2 insists George Burley was a bigger appointment.

 

My argument was GB, at that time, was a bigger appointment that PS.

 

 

How about you stick to that discussion instead of continuing to look for an argument ?

[JamboAl]

You just haven't grasped this thread at all.

 

Let me simplify for JamboAl....

 

Poster #1 insists Paulo Sergio is the biggest appointment in Hearts history.

 

Poster #2 insists George Burley was a bigger appointment.

 

My argument was GB, at that time, was a bigger appointment that PS.

 

 

How about you stick to that discussion instead of continuing to look for an argument ?

 

OK. Your assertion is rubbish.

If you equate managing Motherwell, Colchester, Ipswich and Derby with managing Sporting Lisbon, you leave me speechless.

As I have said repeatedly, GB had won nothing before he was appointed in 15/16 years of management and left at least 3 of his previous 4 jobs in acrimonious circumstances.

Personally I was never excited by Burley's appointment but at least raised my eyebrows with an ex-manager of SL.

Does that help?

PS The thread is about PS' ability to win trophies - b*gger all to do with GB and yet you bring up this old chestnut.

[Drylaw Hearts]

OK. Your assertion is rubbish.

If you equate managing Motherwell, Colchester, Ipswich and Derby with managing Sporting Lisbon, you leave me speechless.

As I have said repeatedly, GB had won nothing before he was appointed in 15/16 years of management and left at least 3 of his previous 4 jobs in acrimonious circumstances.

Personally I was never excited by Burley's appointment but at least raised my eyebrows with an ex-manager of SL.

Does that help?

 

How selective of you. Can't say I'm shocked though.

 

GB won Manager of the Year after taking Ipswich to 5th in the EPL and took them to Europe for the first time in nearly 20 years.

 

PS got the bullet after 17 matches at SL and somehow even managed to lose to Rangers.

 

 

The day we appointed GB I knew we were on the verge of something big....the day we appointed PS I didn't feel anything remotely close to that.

[Harry Palmer]

To answer the question....

 

He might be..then again he might not be.

 

(Haven't bothered to read the thread but I'm sure the question would have been answered as such.)

[JamboAl]

How selective of you. Can't say I'm shocked though.

 

GB won Manager of the Year after taking Ipswich to 5th in the EPL and took them to Europe for the first time in nearly 20 years.

 

PS got the bullet after 17 matches at SL and somehow even managed to lose to Rangers.

 

 

The day we appointed GB I knew we were on the verge of something big....the day we appointed PS I didn't feel anything remotely close to that.

 

Wow! What a long earth-shattering spell of success.

What did his team win? A big fat ZERO. He even got teams relegated! Previous tenures end in acrimony. That's a fantastic record - not to mention his later stints with C Palace and of course the spell when he turned the national team into world beaters.

I think you were basing your beliefs on what you personally felt at the time of the appointments not on their records or potential.

Give the guy a chance and by all means berate him if/when he fails but at least let him get his feet under the table first.

[Coco]

One other factor in the debate - Burley had an excellent playing career, playing in English finals, at the top end of the league, in the later stages of European football, for an excellent manager and for Scotland (incl in a WC squad). Sergio seems to have been a real journeyman as a player.

 

Not a deciding factor in their abilities as a manager of course.

[JamboAl]

One other factor in the debate - Burley had an excellent playing career, playing in English finals, at the top end of the league, in the later stages of European football, for an excellent manager and for Scotland (incl in a WC squad). Sergio seems to have been a real journeyman as a player.

Not a deciding factor in their abilities as a manager of course.

 

Sir A F was much the same and some top managers never played in senior football.

Many players with more illustrious careers never made it as a manager as your last sentence recognises.

So what exactly was your point?

[Coco]

Sir A F was much the same and some top managers never played in senior football.

Many players with more illustrious careers never made it as a manager as your last sentence recognises.

So what exactly was your point?

 

Alex Ferguson was a top signing by Rangers at the time they were a European force! Record signing between Scottish clubs, 44 goals for Rangers in 57 games, top goalscorer in the Scottish league etc. Hardly a journeyman.

 

Of course there are players who become bad managers, some become good managers, some bad players become good managers etc.

 

However, it is undoubtedly the case that Burley had a superior playing record to Sergio, presumably learning things from better managers such as Robson and Stein. Just another small factor which might help to determine who was/is a better manager.

[Pistol1874]

Wow! What a long earth-shattering spell of success.

What did his team win? A big fat ZERO. He even got teams relegated! Previous tenures end in acrimony. That's a fantastic record - not to mention his later stints with C Palace and of course the spell when he turned the national team into world beaters.

I think you were basing your beliefs on what you personally felt at the time of the appointments not on their records or potential.

Give the guy a chance and by all means berate him if/when he fails but at least let him get his feet under the table first.

Finishing 5th in that league with Ipswich, even at that time, is tantamount to winning something, hence the manager of the year award ahead of one or two rather successful contemporaries.

Returning to the OP, whether any manager wins us a trophy will have a lot to do with luck and even more to do with what VR doesn't do as much as what he does do.