Jim Jefferies

[shaun.lawson]

Lets get this straight. We CANT and WONT EVER compete on a financial level with them. I'm not that impressed with the contributions to date from Diouf, Bartley and Healey anyway but you dont neccesarily need that type of signing to challenge them. We will never outspend them, but we dont need to

 

You do it the Dundee Utd or the Aberdeen way. Its still possible to do what they did and its still perfectly valid and workable. (2)

 

You get the best and hungriest, most motivated manager that you can possibly source. (as they did) There are better and hungrier ones than Jefferies in this league already in my opinion. (1) You get one who isnt in awe of the Old firm (Ferguson and Mclean werent but you might have to look further afield for that) You spend a year building a squad that has the talent, the hunger, the desire, the balance and the togetherness required (thats what Ferguson and Mclean did) You get rid of anything and anybody that doesnt fit in, or isnt on board with what your trying to do ( thats what Ferguson and Mclean did)

 

1. Um - who?

 

2. No it isn't. Dundee United and Aberdeen did it in an age when, if a player was out of contract, he could just be left to rot. Clubs had all the power. Now, no sooner does a good side get put together and a non-OF club start going places then players leave for bigger, better paying clubs, the team is broken up, and you have to start again. And those better paying clubs include almost everyone in the Championship, for heavens sake: Scottish clubs just can't compete at all.

 

Why do you think hardly any non-OF club has been able to successfully 'defend' 3rd place in the entire modern era of the Scottish game? It's a glass ceiling that we all hit; and breaking through it requires exactly what kennyblack'sshot alluded to: money that we just don't have. Then factor in that we're actually trying to cut the wage bill, are almost certainly still losing money, and have to somehow balance the budget in time for UEFA's new financial regulations, and well...

 

It's a pipedream, OAG. And in the absence of the kind of money required, a manager capable of actually taking us to the league title just ain't going to come here.

[Only a Game]

Good assesment IMO.

 

I believe JJ was trying him out as a target man, that's why two TT's never started.

 

It wasn't a knee-jerk reaction from me it was the manner of our defeat and the thoughtless substitutions.

 

If starting todays game with Elliot on his own up front, when Elliott was fit and could have started, or at least could have been one of two up front, doesnt set alarm bells ringing in Hearts fans heads regarding the thought processes of the manager, then I dont know what will

[shaun.lawson]

Are you kidding?

 

Yet again this season (when the infirm are so much weaker than 98) our manager bottles it going to Glasgow. Is (apparently) pretty easy to beat tactically but yet you want me to come up with the answer? Are you happy with performances/tactics recently. Do you see the similarities between now and then?

 

Why is it so many people think it's so easy to win in Glasgow when so few sides ever manage it? When are people going to realise that Celtic and Rangers have far more fans than us, much more money than us, and better teams and squads than us?

 

This season, 14 clubs have gone to Old Trafford in the EPL, and 13 of them left pointless. I take it they all 'bottled it' too?

[kennyblack'sshot]

If starting todays game with Elliot on his own up front, when Elliott was fit and could have started, or at least could have been one of two up front, doesnt set alarm bells ringing in Hearts fans heads regarding the thought processes of the manager, then I dont know what will

 

I agree. However Elliot has played well in that role before. On form he's not bad at bringing others into the game ("on form" being the tricky part for him). And Two Ts has been struggling for fitness all season with various things so he might not have been fit enough for that role.

 

The point is there's a difference between criticising individual decisions and saying JJ's not doing a good job overall.

[Only a Game]

1. Um - who?

 

2. No it isn't. Dundee United and Aberdeen did it in an age when, if a player was out of contract, he could just be left to rot. Clubs had all the power. Now, no sooner does a good side get put together and a non-OF club start going places then players leave for bigger, better paying clubs, the team is broken up, and you have to start again. And those better paying clubs include almost everyone in the Championship, for heavens sake: Scottish clubs just can't compete at all.

 

Why do you think hardly any non-OF club has been able to successfully 'defend' 3rd place in the entire modern era of the Scottish game? It's a glass ceiling that we all hit; and breaking through it requires exactly what kennyblack'sshot alluded to: money that we just don't have. Then factor in that we're actually trying to cut the wage bill, are almost certainly still losing money, and have to somehow balance the budget in time for UEFA's new financial regulations, and well...

 

It's a pipedream, OAG. And in the absence of the kind of money required, a manager capable of actually taking us to the league title just ain't going to come here.

 

1. Terry Butcher for starters. Done a great job on a minimal budget. Would IMO do a fabulous job at a club like us. Not scared of the Old Firm. Very surprised Rangers didnt appear to consider him.

 

2. Aberdeen and Dundee Utd both sold players to bigger clubs during their successful years. Their success wasnt so much down to individual brilliance of a few highly paid players. It was down to teamwork and getting the blend and the attitude right, and having ready made replacements who fitted in if and when big players left. They hardly spent a penny to bring anyone in the whole time and werent paying big wages at any time.

[Gigolo-Aunt]

Are you kidding?

 

Yet again this season (when the infirm are so much weaker than 98) our manager bottles it going to Glasgow. Is (apparently) pretty easy to beat tactically but yet you want me to come up with the answer? Are you happy with performances/tactics recently. Do you see the similarities between now and then?

 

Year after year I hear that the Old Firm are weaker than they have ever been - there is an element of truth in that, no doubt - then you see the two of them perched at the top of the division.

 

I'm not really ****** a hoop at the performances of late but I understand that overall, the quality we have in the squad would need to carry a hell of a lot of luck on the injury side. We have players in our squad that when they dont play, we struggle.

 

We all want Hearts to be the best they can be, but we need to be realists as well.

 

I do concede though that results like today are difficult to take.

[kennyblack'sshot]

1. Terry Butcher for starters. Done a great job on a minimal budget. Would IMO do a fabulous job at a club like us. Not scared of the Old Firm. Very surprised Rangers didnt appear to consider him.

 

2. Aberdeen and Dundee Utd both sold players to bigger clubs during their successful years. Their success wasnt so much down to individual brilliance of a few highly paid players. It was down to teamwork and getting the blend and the attitude right, and having ready made replacements who fitted in if and when big players left. They hardly spent a penny to bring anyone in the whole time and werent paying big wages at any time.

 

You said it - Aberdeen and D Utd's success was down to teamwork and they were able to keep their teams together long enough - unlike today. Are you seriously saying that football hasn't changed since the 80s! For goodness sake - we very nearly won the league with a team containing Neil Berry, Walter Kidd and Kenny Black!

 

They weren't paying big wages because they didn't have to in those days.

[Seymour M Hersh]

Why is it so many people think it's so easy to win in Glasgow when so few sides ever manage it? When are people going to realise that Celtic and Rangers have far more fans than us, much more money than us, and better teams and squads than us?

 

This season, 14 clubs have gone to Old Trafford in the EPL, and 13 of them left pointless. I take it they all 'bottled it' too?

 

Snoreson, I never suggested it is or was easy. JJ's record against the uglies in the weej is crap. Every year teams who are smaller than HMFC go there get stuck in and are rewarded. Every year with JJ as manager we have collectively attached the nappies at the Maybury roundabout. In league games with JJ as manger we have never got stuck into the ****s. Hibs record in the weej in the last decade is better than ours. Ffs they beat the hun 3-0 at hunbrox with this seasons team.

[shaun.lawson]

1. Terry Butcher for starters. Done a great job on a minimal budget. Would IMO do a fabulous job at a club like us. Not scared of the Old Firm. Very surprised Rangers didnt appear to consider him.

 

2. Aberdeen and Dundee Utd both sold players to bigger clubs during their successful years. Their success wasnt so much down to individual brilliance of a few highly paid players. It was down to teamwork and getting the blend and the attitude right, and having ready made replacements who fitted in if and when big players left. They hardly spent a penny to bring anyone in the whole time and werent paying big wages at any time.

 

Aberdeen and Dundee United would have to sell shitloads more players now. It's a different world. Dundee United's players were terrified of even asking Jim McLean for a pay rise, never mind to leave.

 

Butcher's a good manager in SPL terms. But no way does he have the intensity required to take a non-OF club to the title. At both Motherwell and ICT, I've noticed how his teams often enjoyed good runs, then tailed off: Butch falling back on the idea that merely a top six finish would be magnificent. Could he win the SPL with Rangers? Sure. But with us? No chance. Any manager who won the SPL with a non-OF club nowadays would have to be pretty much as good as the last man to do it; and he's arguably the greatest football manager of all time.

[Only a Game]

Why is it so many people think it's so easy to win in Glasgow when so few sides ever manage it? When are people going to realise that Celtic and Rangers have far more fans than us, much more money than us, and better teams and squads than us?

 

This season, 14 clubs have gone to Old Trafford in the EPL, and 13 of them left pointless. I take it they all 'bottled it' too?

 

Its not easy to win in Glasgow. No one said it was. Its easy to capitulate and get walked over in Glasgow, Jefferies seems to have mastered that one throughout his career. It is POSSIBLE to win in Glasgow but above everything else you need to go there with a bit of bottle to overcome the obvious advantages they have. If you dont have that bottle, and we dont, you have no chance.

 

People leave Old Trafford pointless because a remarkably good, almost invincible, highly dedicated and focussed team, with a world class manager, emerge from the home dressing room there. Thats not the case at Celtic Park and Ibrox.

[wright1989]

1. Terry Butcher for starters. Done a great job on a minimal budget. Would IMO do a fabulous job at a club like us. Not scared of the Old Firm. Very surprised Rangers didnt appear to consider him.

 

2. Aberdeen and Dundee Utd both sold players to bigger clubs during their successful years. Their success wasnt so much down to individual brilliance of a few highly paid players. It was down to teamwork and getting the blend and the attitude right, and having ready made replacements who fitted in if and when big players left. They hardly spent a penny to bring anyone in the whole time and werent paying big wages at any time.

 

I have finally found someone with the same thoughts as me!!! I thought I was alone!!

 

All hope is not lost.

 

 

 

Also if you believe in your skills and know no matter how good you are you can still improve then you will go very far in whatever you do. It's personality and mentality that seperates the good from the great. Small clubs can compete. But you need a great manager to do so.

[Peebo]

Aberdeen and Dundee United would have to sell shitloads more players now. It's a different world. Dundee United's players were terrified of even asking Jim McLean for a pay rise, never mind to leave.

 

Was Billy McKinlay not on a 125-year contract, for example??

[shaun.lawson]

Snoreson, I never suggested it is or was easy. JJ's record against the uglies in the weej is crap. Every year teams who are smaller than HMFC go there get stuck in and are rewarded. Every year with JJ as manager we have collectively attached the nappies at the Maybury roundabout. In league games with JJ as manger we have never got stuck into the ****s. Hibs record in the weej in the last decade is better than ours. Ffs they beat the hun 3-0 at hunbrox with this seasons team.

 

The uglies are invariably more focused against us than anyone else - because it's much more frequently us who are closest to them. That we've taken six points off them this season is, actually, completely normal; and you'll have to go back a long, long way to find any non-OF club who even shared the season's points with the gruesomes. (Off the top of my head, I think it's St Johnstone, 1998/9).

 

Records of 11-3-1 (Celtic) and 10-1-2 (Rangers) show how difficult it is to win there, or get any kind of result. It doesn't happen often in the case of any non-OF club; and paradoxically, is even rarer if that club happens to be challenging.

[Gigolo-Aunt]

Terry Butcher?

 

 

 

 

 

[shaun.lawson]

Its not easy to win in Glasgow. No one said it was. Its easy to capitulate and get walked over in Glasgow, Jefferies seems to have mastered that one throughout his career. It is POSSIBLE to win in Glasgow but above everything else you need to go there with a bit of bottle to overcome the obvious advantages they have. If you dont have that bottle, and we dont, you have no chance.

 

People leave Old Trafford pointless because a remarkably good, almost invincible, highly dedicated and focussed team, with a world class manager, emerge from the home dressing room there. Thats not the case at Celtic Park and Ibrox.

 

This season's United team is pretty bloody average actually, yet they still walk over pretty much everyone at OT.

 

Meanwhile, the gulf in resources, fan base and squad depth between the OF and the rest is colossal. Would you expect Blackburn to go to Old Trafford and get a result? So why do people expect us to go to Glasgow and do so?

[kennyblack'sshot]

Its not easy to win in Glasgow. No one said it was. Its easy to capitulate and get walked over in Glasgow, Jefferies seems to have mastered that one throughout his career. It is POSSIBLE to win in Glasgow but above everything else you need to go there with a bit of bottle to overcome the obvious advantages they have. If you dont have that bottle, and we dont, you have no chance.

 

People leave Old Trafford pointless because a remarkably good, almost invincible, highly dedicated and focussed team, with a world class manager, emerge from the home dressing room there. Thats not the case at Celtic Park and Ibrox.

 

I actually agree with you in a way about approaches to OF games. I've often wondered why we don't just treat every OF game like a Cup Final and prepare in the same way - hotel, etc. Maybe we do but it doesn't always work? I see the key to taking on the OF as being having winners on the park - that's why we did well in 2005/06. We had guys who had played in European Cup Finals and things. The OF were nothing to them. But it comes back to the same old thing - those players cost money...

 

Anyhow getting the odd victory against the OF counts for nothing if you can't beat everyone else consistently (as Hibs have spectacularly proved this year!). JJ this season established us as the most dominant third placed team I can remember for a while. Hopefully next season, and the rest of this one, we'll push on and have a go at the OF.

[shaun.lawson]

Was Billy McKinlay not on a 125-year contract, for example??

 

Something like that, yes.

[wright1989]

This season's United team is pretty bloody average actually, yet they still walk over pretty much everyone at OT.

 

Meanwhile, the gulf in resources, fan base and squad depth between the OF and the rest is colossal. Would you expect Blackburn to go to Old Trafford and get a result? So why do people expect us to go to Glasgow and do so?

 

I think it's more to do with the only man to brush the OF to the side the way he did in the history of Scottish football. They can be brought down.

[kennyblack'sshot]

Its not easy to win in Glasgow. No one said it was. Its easy to capitulate and get walked over in Glasgow, Jefferies seems to have mastered that one throughout his career. It is POSSIBLE to win in Glasgow but above everything else you need to go there with a bit of bottle to overcome the obvious advantages they have. If you dont have that bottle, and we dont, you have no chance.

 

People leave Old Trafford pointless because a remarkably good, almost invincible, highly dedicated and focussed team, with a world class manager, emerge from the home dressing room there. Thats not the case at Celtic Park and Ibrox.

 

World class Man Utd went to Ibrox this season and only scraped a 1-0 win with a late penalty. In recent years other English teams have not found it easy to win or have lost in Glasgow. It's not as simple as just having a go no matter how poor the current OF teams are. And when you're going for third at minimum the pragmatic thing to do is try to beat everyone else and take what you can from the OF games. I would like us to aim higher but it'll take more than a manager who is willing to be more gung-ho in Glasgow.

[Seymour M Hersh]

The uglies are invariably more focused against us than anyone else - because it's much more frequently us who are closest to them. That we've taken six points off them this season is, actually, completely normal; and you'll have to go back a long, long way to find any non-OF club who even shared the season's points with the gruesomes. (Off the top of my head, I think it's St Johnstone, 1998/9).

 

Records of 11-3-1 (Celtic) and 10-1-2 (Rangers) show how difficult it is to win there, or get any kind of result. It doesn't happen often in the case of any non-OF club; and paradoxically, is even rarer if that club happens to be challenging.

 

Is this JJ's league record for HMFC in Glasgow against the infirm?

[Only a Game]

Why is it so many people think it's so easy to win in Glasgow when so few sides ever manage it? When are people going to realise that Celtic and Rangers have far more fans than us, much more money than us, and better teams and squads than us?

 

 

 

Just a few short weeks ago, after 20 odd games of the season, we were a handful of points off the big spending superpowers. There is a school of thought that reckons we were playing way above ourselves, riding our luck and getting a run of results that a team of our quality had no right to get, but I can certainly identify games this season where we could and should have picked up points that would have had us closer or even ahead of them. We've beaten both of them this season, albeit not on their patch but we have beaten them.

 

We're not that far away. The margins are very tight. The difference between us being on the points we are on now and 10 points better off is a few passes, a bit better defending, a few more chances being converted, a bit more belief. Its not impossible for us to improve that little bit more where we can go from challenging after 23 games to challenging after 33 games and beyond. We SHOULD be beating every other team in this league every time we play them, or at least we should be thinking we should be beating them and believing we should be beating them. If we were able to cut out the daft results for the most part and start to take something from Ibrox and Celtic Park now and again, we'd be damn close to being title winners.

[shaun.lawson]

Is this JJ's league record for HMFC in Glasgow against the infirm?

 

It's the infirm's home records this season against everyone else.

[Craigieboy]

People on here wanting to replace JJ with Butcher.

 

 

I thought I'd seen it all on here, I really had. But that takes the ****ing biscuit.

 

.

[shaun.lawson]

Just a few short weeks ago, after 20 odd games of the season, we were a handful of points off the big spending superpowers. There is a school of thought that reckons we were playing way above ourselves, riding our luck and getting a run of results that a team of our quality had no right to get, but I can certainly identify games this season where we could and should have picked up points that would have had us closer or even ahead of them. We've beaten both of them this season, albeit not on their patch but we have beaten them.

 

We're not that far away. The margins are very tight. The difference between us being on the points we are on now and 10 points better off is a few passes, a bit better defending, a few more chances being converted, a bit more belief. Its not impossible for us to improve that little bit more where we can go from challenging after 23 games to challenging after 33 games and beyond. We SHOULD be beating every other team in this league every time we play them, or at least we should be thinking we should be beating them and believing we should be beating them. If we were able to cut out the daft results for the most part and start to take something from Ibrox and Celtic Park now and again, we'd be damn close to being title winners.

 

No club ever completely cuts out the 'daft results', least of all an over-achieving one. Every team anywhere has a bad spell of form at some point during a season; surprise challengers find their squads stretched, and opponents shutting up shop against them. Meanwhile, less consistent non-OF opponents will sometimes hit a purple patch at a time we're struggling somewhat; and refs and freak events will impact on a handful of games too. And so on, and so on.

 

Most of our 'daft results' this season occurred at a time when we weren't picking Zal, and hadn't signed Rudi. So you're not even comparing like with like. There was one brief moment, after the Rangers game in January, when we seemed close to the top two; then quick as you like, the OF slammed the door shut. Which shouldn't be much of a surprise given how superior Rangers were for much of the game at Tynie anyway.

[wright1989]

People on here wanting to replace JJ with Butcher.

 

 

I thought I'd seen it all on here, I really had. But that takes the ****ing biscuit.

 

.

 

I never said I wanted Butcher?

[kennyblack'sshot]

Just a few short weeks ago, after 20 odd games of the season, we were a handful of points off the big spending superpowers. There is a school of thought that reckons we were playing way above ourselves, riding our luck and getting a run of results that a team of our quality had no right to get, but I can certainly identify games this season where we could and should have picked up points that would have had us closer or even ahead of them. We've beaten both of them this season, albeit not on their patch but we have beaten them.

 

We're not that far away. The margins are very tight. The difference between us being on the points we are on now and 10 points better off is a few passes, a bit better defending, a few more chances being converted, a bit more belief. Its not impossible for us to improve that little bit more where we can go from challenging after 23 games to challenging after 33 games and beyond. We SHOULD be beating every other team in this league every time we play them, or at least we should be thinking we should be beating them and believing we should be beating them. If we were able to cut out the daft results for the most part and start to take something from Ibrox and Celtic Park now and again, we'd be damn close to being title winners.

 

If we had beaten Killie (twice) and Motherwell and not lost late goals to St J and Dundee Utd in games earlier this season, we would be above Celtic in the league now no matter how we did in games against the OF.

 

I think the way to challenge the OF in the league - especially when they're relatively weak like now - is to focus on beating everyone else and hope to grab as many points as possible against the uglies. So I think having a manager capable of doing that is the key rather than trying to find one capable of beating the OF.

[shaun.lawson]

I never said I wanted Butcher?

 

Not you!

 

Incidentally, fair play to you. After an inauspicious start, this thread has turned into a cracking debate.

[Gigolo-Aunt]

For Hearts to be right up there come May, we would need either.....

 

Serious ??????? input in to the squad.

 

To produce a crop of excellent players via the academy, who come through together - who don't suffer dips in form and have a right good mentality on their heads.

 

Be incredibly prudent in the transfer market.

 

 

You could make a case for option 2 and 3 being required to have that "pop" at the title.

[Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC]

Terrible.

 

Wright - I can't even be arsed quoting you. Just shut your hole.

[Only a Game]

all JJ's teams play football, and the way he has us playing now (at least in theory) is a world removed from Csaba-ball. JJ's unusual in SPL terms in how attractively he wants to play. This enables us to often dominate non-OF sides in a way Csaba couldn't;

 

Sorry Shaun, I know you dont get to see Hearts live very often but you clearly havent even watched us on telly in the last few weeks. Today and last week in particular were utter horror shows, caused in my opinion mostly by a lack of guts and belief on behalf of the management, which has been passed on to the players in much the same way as a manager with belief and bottle and winning mentality would pass that on to his players. We got it horribly wrong at Celtic Park. We had the wrong approach and the wrong attitude right from the start, as JJ always seems to do in Glasgow and we got absolutely hammered because of it.

[shaun.lawson]

Sorry Shaun, I know you dont get to see Hearts live very often but you clearly havent even watched us on telly in the last few weeks. Today and last week in particular were utter horror shows, caused in my opinion mostly by a lack of guts and belief on behalf of the management, which has been passed on to the players in much the same way as a manager with belief and bottle and winning mentality would pass that on to his players. We got it horribly wrong at Celtic Park. We had the wrong approach and the wrong attitude right from the start, as JJ always seems to do in Glasgow and we got absolutely hammered because of it.

 

I said 'at least in theory'.

 

What's going on right now is what statisticians refer to as 'regression to the mean'. In other words, we aren't actually as good as a prolonged purple patch made us assume.

[wright1989]

Not you!

 

Incidentally, fair play to you. After an inauspicious start, this thread has turned into a cracking debate.

 

I myself am suprised, started off on que then took an unexpected turn for the best.

[Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC]

Sorry Shaun, I know you dont get to see Hearts live very often but you clearly havent even watched us on telly in the last few weeks. Today and last week in particular were utter horror shows, caused in my opinion mostly by a lack of guts and belief on behalf of the management, which has been passed on to the players in much the same way as a manager with belief and bottle and winning mentality would pass that on to his players. We got it horribly wrong at Celtic Park. We had the wrong approach and the wrong attitude right from the start, as JJ always seems to do in Glasgow and we got absolutely hammered because of it.

 

You've been against JJ from the start so I'd be quiet if I were you mate. Brass neck springs to mind.

[Craigieboy]

Hearts will never win the league & even splitting those ****s for second won't happen for a while.

 

Games like today, the games in Glasgow & even to an extent the performance at Aberdeen show us up for what we actually are.

 

Yea, it's been a great season. I'm very happy to see the turn around.

 

But talk of league titles etc is just ****ing stupid.

 

It would take VR to put in millions of punds just to have a chance.

 

It aint going to happen.

 

.

[wright1989]

Terrible.

 

Wright - I can't even be arsed quoting you. Just shut your hole.

 

Please don't post on this thread if you don't like someone having a different view from you. However if you are willing to accept the obvious then please, join in.

 

Thanks.

[kennyblack'sshot]

Sorry Shaun, I know you dont get to see Hearts live very often but you clearly havent even watched us on telly in the last few weeks. Today and last week in particular were utter horror shows, caused in my opinion mostly by a lack of guts and belief on behalf of the management, which has been passed on to the players in much the same way as a manager with belief and bottle and winning mentality would pass that on to his players. We got it horribly wrong at Celtic Park. We had the wrong approach and the wrong attitude right from the start, as JJ always seems to do in Glasgow and we got absolutely hammered because of it.

 

It's easy to say to players to play without fear, etc but it comes down to experience. Winning things becomes easier the more you do it. Celtic and Rangers have been winning everything in sight for decades so it's second nature to them. They have a built-in winning mentality which as I say comes from actually winning things. They expect to win every game except OF games and even then they bpth probably think they can win every one of those as well.

 

It's hard to get that mentality at a club like Hearts. Unless we can do a 2005 again and sign players with a track record of winning things, it's possible to put together a good run or even one great season through the right mentality (eg Denmark or Greece winning the Euro Championships from nowhere) but you need much more to put in a real, long-term challenge - like much more money for a start.

[Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC]

Please don't post on this thread if you don't like someone having a different view from you. However if you are willing to accept the obvious then please, join in.

 

Thanks.

 

Hilarious.

 

If you were old enough to appreciate JJ's last time you would understand, but you don't.

[Only a Game]

If we had beaten Killie (twice) and Motherwell and not lost late goals to St J and Dundee Utd in games earlier this season, we would be above Celtic in the league now no matter how we did in games against the OF.

 

I think the way to challenge the OF in the league - especially when they're relatively weak like now - is to focus on beating everyone else and hope to grab as many points as possible against the uglies. So I think having a manager capable of doing that is the key rather than trying to find one capable of beating the OF.

 

I'd agree with that. We had a manager capable of beating the Old firm not so long ago and no one liked him. Fair enough because he wasnt that great at beating the other teams. This goes to prove that with simply changing to a manager with the right credentials, a mix of the good things about Csaba and JJ if you like, that we could properly challenge over the course of a whole season.

 

None of this will be possible whilst we have a manager who reflects the opinions of a lot of fans who believe its not possible.

[wright1989]

Hilarious.

 

If you were old enough to appreciate JJ's last time you would understand, but you don't.

 

As I have said I look at things happening in the present. This was not a knee-jerk reaction it is a combination of things and the manner of our defeat today.

[Debut 4]

Your on form tonight OAG and can't argue with any of that

 

We'll get 3rd this year and well done to JJ and his team.

 

But for me it's what he does during the summer ( or what he is allowed to do )

 

He needs to bring in the right signings because we will not romp to 3rd place like we have done so far.

 

I have said previously we do have the basis of a decent side but it needs 2 or 3 quality players who are first 11 and not just squad members......we have an abundance of them already

Don`t sook up. He`s another one who talks cack about JJ and will be loving todays defeat so he can have a pop. Sad.

 

So, JJ`s not got the bottle...please enlighten me and make a case.....

[Only a Game]

Hilarious.

 

If you were old enough to appreciate JJ's last time you would understand, but you don't.

 

Can we be reminded of

 

1. JJ's record against the Old Firm the last time.

2. JJ's achievements in the league the last time.

 

I only ask because I dont remember either of those things being very good ?

[Gigolo-Aunt]

As I have said I look at things happening in the present. This was not a knee-jerk reaction it is a combination of things and the manner of our defeat today.

 

So what do you want?

[shaun.lawson]

I'd agree with that. We had a manager capable of beating the Old firm not so long ago and no one liked him. Fair enough because he wasnt that great at beating the other teams. This goes to prove that with simply changing to a manager with the right credentials, a mix of the good things about Csaba and JJ if you like, that we could properly challenge over the course of a whole season.

 

None of this will be possible whilst we have a manager who reflects the opinions of a lot of fans who believe its not possible.

 

Which at a club our size, is impossible! It's like Bolton fans saying "if only we had a manager who had all Owen Coyle and Sam Allardyce's good points, we'd win the league". It's impossible to routinely play polar opposites of styles at a club without huge resources.

[Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC]

Can we be reminded of

 

1. JJ's record against the Old Firm the last time.

2. JJ's achievements in the league the last time.

 

I only ask because I dont remember either of those things being very good ?

 

Sack him then. Let's go back to Frail or Casba.

 

Wise up, OAG. You are better than that man.

[shaun.lawson]

Can we be reminded of

 

1. JJ's record against the Old Firm the last time.

2. JJ's achievements in the league the last time.

 

I only ask because I dont remember either of those things being very good ?

 

Record v the OF: normal (find any other non-OF manager between 1995 and 2000 with a better record).

 

And as for his league record: are you having a laugh? JJ inherited a side who'd just avoided relegation on the final day of the previous two seasons. He led it to two 3rd place finishes (including the only sustained title challenge by a non-OF club in the last 20 years), two 4th placed finishes, and three European qualifications in five attempts. All that on, for the most part, a shoestring. Now he's on for another 3rd place finish, and another European qualification.

 

What more do you bloody want? I'll say it again: only one Hearts manager has achieved consecutive top three finishes with us since 1960 - and he gets pelters on here as well. You're seriously slagging Jefferies' league record?! Unbelievable.

[Only a Game]

Don`t sook up. He`s another one who talks cack about JJ and will be loving todays defeat so he can have a pop. Sad.

 

So, JJ`s not got the bottle...please enlighten me and make a case.....

 

 

Loving todays defeat ? Is there a post anywhere in my posting history where you can evidence that ?

 

JJ is short on bottle in my opinion. The evidence is there throughout his time as a manager, with one notable exception where he won 5 games in a big tournament. Had it not been for that one exception he'd be seen as an entirely unremarkable manager (which is actually what he is) and almost certainly wouldnt be here for a second spell.

 

The case is made. Lets hear you refute it sensibly instead of throwing unsubstantiated garbage about like "he is loving todays defeat" because even you know thats not the case.

[wright1989]

So what do you want?

 

The best for Hearts, a league win in my lifetime, try to get more fans to games. I want Hearts to be successful.

[Gigolo-Aunt]

The best for Hearts, a league win in my lifetime, try to get more fans to games. I want Hearts to be successful.

 

Well I suggest you keep buying lottery tickets.

[Debut 4]

Can we be reminded of

 

1. JJ's record against the Old Firm the last time.

2. JJ's achievements in the league the last time.

 

I only ask because I dont remember either of those things being very good ?

right, do we have to go over this again? Firstly, since the 50`s era, how many Hearts managers have managed to put in a decent challenge to the Old Firm, remember, 50 odd years is a long time.

 

Alot of the empty heeds who jump on JJs back forget he had to contend with a very big spending Rangers...oh, but he still won a trophy.

 

From what i remember he took Hearts from the bottom of the league in his first season up to finishing 4th...it was the Hobos who were 4th and 16 points ahead at one time of us...we ended about 12, 14 ahead of them.

 

4th in his 2nd season then that great season in 98. Went pear shaped in 98-99 but bounced back again to get 3rd in 2000. All this competing against big spending Old Firmers.

 

Mind you, we should have stuck with McLean and fought relegation watching pish every week, because its obvious some didn`t enjoy Hearts resurgence under JJ because he couldn`t win the league. Oh, and for the record, because he didn`t have the bottle to challenge the Old Firm Hearts finished miles behind in 3rd in 98 and a huge 7 points behind the winners.

[Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC]

He made inexplicable errors today and we were murder, but look at how he has turned us round. Only a moron round be against him, frankly.