Jim Jefferies

[bighusref]

I may say. I'm a good Hearts supporter I have a season ticket and will renew it next year.

 

But unlike the majority of you I don't tug myself while looking a Hearts badge and I prefer sexual intercourse to football, sadly most of the members of Kickback would rather attend a Hearts charity event that their wedding. People call Kickback posters a bunch of self loving p r i c k s, they are not wrong. You love to team up in little cyber groups and pick off anyone who doesn't agree with you. ..

 

I'm not going to post on this thread again so you can't call a cyber attack on me and feel proud of yourselves. Then you could go to sleep tonight with a big grin on your face.

 

 

I also like when a kickback poster has a go at kickback posters as if they are not themselves, kickback posters.

 

As for tonight, don't do it Wright, it isn't that bad.

[wright1989]

stop talking the same shite over and over again about JJ after a defeat then you might get some reasoned views on what you are saying....

 

Its clear you don`t like him and will never acknowledge anything good he does. Most of the other posters on here criticise/praise JJ accordingly, not stick to one view and its the be all or end all.

 

I have acknowledged things that have went well. Truth is though we have not been playing well for a while now and this 'securing third' talk has not motivated the players in the slightest.

 

I like JJ as a person and he is a true Hearts man but I don't like the style of football he is playing.

[shaun.lawson]

I may say. I'm a good Hearts supporter I have a season ticket and will renew it next year.

 

But unlike the majority of you I don't tug myself while looking a Hearts badge and I prefer sexual intercourse to football, sadly most of the members of Kickback would rather attend a Hearts charity event that their wedding. People call Kickback posters a bunch of self loving p r i c k s, they are not wrong. You love to team up in little cyber groups and pick off anyone who doesn't agree with you. ..

 

I'm not going to post on this thread again so you can't call a cyber attack on me and feel proud of yourselves. Then you could go to sleep tonight with a big grin on your face.

 

Edit. A few people I actually like on here, not many though.

 

Wright, are you having a nervous breakdown or something? I'm genuinely worried.

 

Look, people don't gang up on you because they fancy themselves as cyber bullies. Pretty much everyone on this thread has disagreed with you because you're talking absolute nonsense. Yours has been the classic kneejerk thread - and what's more, you've got plenty of previous for it too.

 

That recent thread of yours that BH referred to? Everyone was nice to you on there: you should take their advice. However much this amounts to the worst case of stones and glasshouses on here in history given my post count, go out, see some friends, enjoy yourself. It's only a game, mate.

[rossthejambo]

Nothing like a defeat to get the ROASTARS out.

 

How many players were out today again?

 

Kyle, Webster, Wallace, Black, Palazuelos. 5 players who would have started the match.

 

Sure we could do with having a plan B for times like this, but his plan A has got us clear in 3rd place and as close to the OF as we've been in years.

 

Think some perspective is needed from some.

[Snake Plissken]

timestamp='1299355688' post='2113614'][/b]

I may say. I'm a good Hearts supporter I have a season ticket and will renew it next year.

 

But unlike the majority of you I don't tug myself while looking a Hearts badge and I prefer sexual intercourse to football, sadly most of the members of Kickback would rather attend a Hearts charity event that their wedding. People call Kickback posters a bunch of self loving p r i c k s, they are not wrong. You love to team up in little cyber groups and pick off anyone who doesn't agree with you. ..

 

I'm not going to post on this thread again so you can't call a cyber attack on me and feel proud of yourselves. Then you could go to sleep tonight with a big grin on your face.

 

Edit. A few people I actually like on here, not many though.

 

 

timestamp='1299356165' post='2113629'][/b]

I have acknowledged things that have went well. Truth is though we have not been playing well for a while now and this 'securing third' talk has not motivated the players in the slightest.

 

You lose

 

[wright1989]

Wright, are you having a nervous breakdown or something? I'm genuinely worried.

 

Look, people don't gang up on you because they fancy themselves as cyber bullies. Pretty much everyone on this thread has disagreed with you because you're talking absolute nonsense. Yours has been the classic kneejerk thread - and what's more, you've got plenty of previous for it too.

 

That recent thread of yours that BH referred to? Everyone was nice to you on there: you should take their advice. However much this amounts to the worst case of stones and glasshouses on here in history given my post count, go out, see some friends, enjoy yourself. It's only a game, mate.

 

See I don't think all I'm saying is shite. admittedly some as I've not watched as much football as some of you as I was probably in nappies when some of you were at football matches. (not a dig)

 

Yes JJ is a decent manager but I think we're the top of his level. I don't think he's a great manager though. Third is a minimum target for a team in Scotland with the budget and quality of players we have. I know we're not good enough to match the OF though. aalso the CIS cup game when we went 3-2 up after being 2-0 down at HT (Which he deserves credit for) his refusal to bring on fresh legs cost us the game in the end. Suso was dead on his feet after the best preformance I've seen from a Hearts player in my time.

[kennyblack'sshot]

I have acknowledged things that have went well. Truth is though we have not been playing well for a while now and this 'securing third' talk has not motivated the players in the slightest.

 

I like JJ as a person and he is a true Hearts man but I don't like the style of football he is playing.

 

I'm guessing from your username and comments that you're about 22. So you've seen Levein, Robertson, Burley, the mugs in between, Csaba and JJ? Levein had us playing horrble football to watch IMO, Robbo tried but didn't get us playing consistently well, Burley was great but look at the players we had and the salaries they earned, the mugs in between were hopeless in the main, and Csaba was very negative.

 

So, if you don't like what JJ has had us playing this season - with our most attacking team and style since Burley - then you are in for a very long and unhappy time as a Hearts fan. I would give him another season - with a full strength team - and judge him after that. The people who have seen his teams before know that he is capable of putting together a very good team who are also good to watch, so maybe you should respect their views a bit more.

[shaun.lawson]

See I don't think all I'm saying is shite. Addmitaly some as I've not watched as much football as some of you as I was probably in nappies when some of you were at football matches. (not a dig)

 

Yes JJ is a decent manager but I think we're the top of his level. I don't think he's a great manager though. Third is a minimum target for a team in Scotland with the budget and quality of players we have. I know we're not good enough to match the OF though. aalso the CIS cup game when we went 3-2 up (Which he deserves credit for) his refusal to bring on fresh legs cost us the game in the end. Suso was dead on his feet after the best preformance I've seen from a Hearts player in my time.

 

We were down to ten for most of the CIS game though.

 

Look, I don't really disagree with the above much at all. Tactically, JJ is far from perfect; he's often too slow to make substitutions; some of his signings are good, others aren't. But the reason he's so loved by so many of us isn't just because he ended that excruciating wait for silverware: it's because he fits this club like a glove. He understands it perfectly, has a wonderful connection with the supporters, and has a tremendous amount of practical common sense. He is, in that regularly employed term about good Scottish football managers, canny.

 

And beyond that: well, you'd have had to have been living on Mars for the past five years to not appreciate how difficult it is to work for our owner, or last much time here. But JJ's handled Romanov and everything that goes with him brilliantly, and Vlad trusts him. That makes Jim Jefferies about as good a manager as we're ever likely to get. He won't be here forever, but under his tutelage, the club is being managed properly for the first time in ages.

 

Yes, we could demand even more - but in all probability, we wouldn't achieve it. There's a reason why no non-OF club has won the title since 1985, and only two have even seriously threatened since then. JJ also fits us because we know we're the third force, but simultaneously know how hard (almost, but not quite impossible) it is to dislodge the Glasgow two. So him having the measure of the rest suits how we see ourselves - and believe me, most managers here would do an awful lot worse.

[Debut 4]

We were down to ten for most of the CIS game though.

 

Look, I don't really disagree with the above much at all. Tactically, JJ is far from perfect; he's often too slow to make substitutions; some of his signings are good, others aren't. But the reason he's so loved by so many of us isn't just because he ended that excruciating wait for silverware: it's because he fits this club like a glove. He understands it perfectly, has a wonderful connection with the supporters, and has a tremendous amount of practical common sense. He is, in that regularly employed term about good Scottish football managers, canny.

 

And beyond that: well, you'd have had to have been living on Mars for the past five years to not appreciate how difficult it is to work for our owner, or last much time here. But JJ's handled Romanov and everything that goes with him brilliantly, and Vlad trusts him. That makes Jim Jefferies about as good a manager as we're ever likely to get. He won't be here forever, but under his tutelage, the club is being managed properly for the first time in ages.

 

Yes, we could demand even more - but in all probability, we wouldn't achieve it. There's a reason why no non-OF club has won the title since 1985, and only two have even seriously threatened since then. JJ also fits us because we know we're the third force, but simultaneously know how hard (almost, but not quite impossible) it is to dislodge the Glasgow two. So him having the measure of the rest suits how we see ourselves - and believe me, most managers here would do an awful lot worse.

good post again Shaun.

[wright1989]

I'm guessing from your username and comments that you're about 22. So you've seen Levein, Robertson, Burley, the mugs in between, Csaba and JJ? Levein had us playing horrble football to watch IMO, Robbo tried but didn't get us playing consistently well, Burley was great but look at the players we had and the salaries they earned, the mugs in between were hopeless in the main, and Csaba was very negative.

 

So, if you don't like what JJ has had us playing this season - with our most attacking team and style since Burley - then you are in for a very long and unhappy time as a Hearts fan. I would give him another season - with a full strength team - and judge him after that. The people who have seen his teams before know that he is capable of putting together a very good team who are also good to watch, so maybe you should respect their views a bit more.

 

See it's not the attacking style I dislike. It's throwing the ball into the box rather than working it in with neat passing or some fast breaks. How often will we score goals like the one Killie did today? I feel sorry for players like Elliott as I think he would thrive in the Kilmarnock team. The way he is expected to work a lot of good strikers would struggle. A target man is not the only good option. There are other ways.

[rossthejambo]

See it's not the attacking style I dislike. It's throwing the ball into the box rather than working it in with neat passing or some fast breaks. How often will we score goals like the one Killie did today? I feel sorry for players like Elliott as I think he would thrive in the Kilmarnock team. The way he is expected to work a lot of good strikers would struggle. A target man is not the only good option. There are other ways.

 

We don't have the midfield to play that though. Mrowiec breaks up attacking play, or is supposed to. Stevenson just isn't good enough.

 

Without someone in midfield to link up between defence and the attacking players we won't be able to play silky football.

[wright1989]

good post again Shaun.

 

I wonder why that is? Maybe because he's trying not to be biased? Trying to look at it in an honest way? Just maybe..

[Del1812]

Jesus H. Christ.

 

You have to love some Hearts fans.

 

Yes, what a shite manager: I hate the fact he's brought through such an exciting talent in David Templeton, I hate the fact he's beaten Hibs four games out of four, I hate the fact he let us dream for the first time in five years that we may be able to challenge for a title, I hate the fact he led us to back-to-back wins over the Old Firm at Tynecastle, I hate the fact he's brought in signings such as Kevin Kyle, Stephen Elliott and Andy Webster, I hate being in 3rd place, I hate seeing us playing football that doesn't make my eyes bleed, I hate seeing a Hearts team that doesn't have Christian Nade in it, I hate that he's brought out the best in Marius Zaliukas, Adrian Mrowiec, Ian Black and Marian Kello.

 

And most of all I hate the fact that he is a club legend who deserves a bit of slack for our first league defeat to a non-Old Firm team in 14 games.

 

What a *****.

[Clerry Jambo]

We were down to ten for most of the CIS game though.

 

Look, I don't really disagree with the above much at all. Tactically, JJ is far from perfect; he's often too slow to make substitutions; some of his signings are good, others aren't. But the reason he's so loved by so many of us isn't just because he ended that excruciating wait for silverware: it's because he fits this club like a glove. He understands it perfectly, has a wonderful connection with the supporters, and has a tremendous amount of practical common sense. He is, in that regularly employed term about good Scottish football managers, canny.

 

And beyond that: well, you'd have had to have been living on Mars for the past five years to not appreciate how difficult it is to work for our owner, or last much time here. But JJ's handled Romanov and everything that goes with him brilliantly, and Vlad trusts him. That makes Jim Jefferies about as good a manager as we're ever likely to get. He won't be here forever, but under his tutelage, the club is being managed properly for the first time in ages.

 

Yes, we could demand even more - but in all probability, we wouldn't achieve it. There's a reason why no non-OF club has won the title since 1985, and only two have even seriously threatened since then. JJ also fits us because we know we're the third force, but simultaneously know how hard (almost, but not quite impossible) it is to dislodge the Glasgow two. So him having the measure of the rest suits how we see ourselves - and believe me, most managers here would do an awful lot worse.

 

That Sir is a cracking post despite personally wanting more

[Only a Game]

Without getting involved in the playground section of this thread (some people really should know better)

 

Two things have become apparent in the last few weeks.

 

1. This squad isnt good enough, in more ways than one, to finish above third. It doesnt have the bottle, the belief, the talent, the workrate or the mentality required to achieve that.

2. Jim Jefferies isnt a good enough manager to take Hearts beyond third. He hasnt got the bottle, the tactical nous or the mentality to do that. He is SMALL time. He is safe. He is limited.

 

Both points proven by the attitude and approach of our team and management in most games since New year, all in my opinion of course.

[Del1812]

Without getting involved in the playground section of this thread (some people really should know better)

 

Two things have become apparent in the last few weeks.

 

1. This squad isnt good enough, in more ways than one, to finish above third. It doesnt have the bottle, the belief, the talent, the workrate or the mentality required to achieve that.

2. Jim Jefferies isnt a good enough manager to take Hearts beyond third. He hasnt got the bottle, the tactical nous or the mentality to do that. He is SMALL time. He is safe. He is limited.

 

Both points proven by the attitude and approach of our team and management in most games since New year, all in my opinion of course.

 

Yeah... well... IT'S MY BALL AND I'M GOING HOME!

[Del1812]

There is one major flaw in that argument OAG.

 

In terms of challenging the Old Firm and sustaining seasons like this one: Hearts, as a club, are limited.

 

EDIT: Right, **** this, I came on JKB for half an hour to kill time. I'm away oot to continue getting pished.

[Seymour M Hersh]

Do you suggest we get rid then?

 

What do you suggest?

 

A manager that stands (like a rabbit caught in headlites) for most of the 2nd half.

A manager who's substitutions are still cronic.

A manager who appears to be (even after all these years) out thought and tactically duffed up by other managers.

 

But hey, I bet you have the answer.

[Clerry Jambo]

Without getting involved in the playground section of this thread (some people really should know better)

 

Two things have become apparent in the last few weeks.

 

1. This squad isnt good enough, in more ways than one, to finish above third. It doesnt have the bottle, the belief, the talent, the workrate or the mentality required to achieve that.

2. Jim Jefferies isnt a good enough manager to take Hearts beyond third. He hasnt got the bottle, the tactical nous or the mentality to do that. He is SMALL time. He is safe. He is limited.

 

Both points proven by the attitude and approach of our team and management in most games since New year, all in my opinion of course.

 

Fair crack OAG

 

But surely our budget and level of signing doesn't allow us to win leagues!

 

Without harping back to the dreamy days of Romanov's first season, 3rd IS the best we can expect.

 

I'm personally not happy with that but that's where we should be - what's not acceptable is bottom six and all the crap that has happened previously

[wright1989]

Without getting involved in the playground section of this thread (some people really should know better)

 

Two things have become apparent in the last few weeks.

 

1. This squad isnt good enough, in more ways than one, to finish above third. It doesnt have the bottle, the belief, the talent, the workrate or the mentality required to achieve that.

2. Jim Jefferies isnt a good enough manager to take Hearts beyond third. He hasnt got the bottle, the tactical nous or the mentality to do that. He is SMALL time. He is safe. He is limited.

Both points proven by the attitude and approach of our team and management in most games since New year, all in my opinion of course.

 

I wonder what would have been said if I had wrote this...

[Clerry Jambo]

I wonder what would have been said if I had wrote this...

 

Just speak from the heart mate, don't concern yourself with the JKB Cartel

[Only a Game]

There is one major flaw in that argument OAG.

 

In terms of challenging the Old Firm and sustaining seasons like this one: Hearts, as a club, are limited.

 

Thats more of an additional point to my argument rather than a flaw. Seriously challenging the Old firm has been a live possibility for the last 4 or 5 years. We could have put ourselves in a position to do it, this season probably more than any other recent one. We had and still have the capability to have a much better squad, but a better manager, identifying better players, replacing players where replacement is the only obvious solution, varying the tactics, trying new things, taking risks and really going for it, especially at home, is essential. Especially important would be a manager who doesnt fill his pants every time the team bus passes Harthill Services.

[shaun.lawson]

Jim Jefferies isnt a good enough manager to take Hearts beyond third.

 

1. Who is?

 

2. How do we get him, and why would he come here?

 

3. How would he work with Vlad?

 

4. Given the squad isn't good enough to finish above 3rd, maybe Jefferies, with a lifetime's experience in the game, simply realises that?

 

5. On here about a year ago, you couldn't even conceive of a way in which we'd improve much this season. Instead, we've improved out of all recognition. Shouldn't this "small time, safe" ( ) manager get credit for that from you?

 

To illustrate point 5, below is a table comparing all SPL sides' points totals now with what they had after the equivalent number of games last season. It makes pretty revealing reading:

 

1. Heart of Midlothian +18

 

2. Kilmarnock +16

 

3. Celtic +13

 

=4. Rangers +1

 

=4. Aberdeen +1

 

6. St Mirren -1

 

7. St Johnstone -2

 

=8. Motherwell -8

 

=8. Dundee United -8

 

10. Hamilton Academical -11

 

11. Hibernian -15

 

*no comparison possible for ICT, as they were in the SFL last season

 

So JJ's achieved more improvement than any other manager in the whole league. What a disgrace, eh?

[Seymour M Hersh]

Without getting involved in the playground section of this thread (some people really should know better)

 

Two things have become apparent in the last few weeks.

 

1. This squad isnt good enough, in more ways than one, to finish above third. It doesnt have the bottle, the belief, the talent, the workrate or the mentality required to achieve that.

2. Jim Jefferies isnt a good enough manager to take Hearts beyond third. He hasnt got the bottle, the tactical nous or the mentality to do that. He is SMALL time. He is safe. He is limited.

 

Both points proven by the attitude and approach of our team and management in most games since New year, all in my opinion of course.

 

As most of the squad is not his I don't think that can be cast up.

 

However what you say in point 2. unfortunately, is correct and we all saw it it in his first stint. Forever I will love the man for managing a Heart of Midlothian team that I first witnessed live winning a trophy. But I had my concerns then about his tactical ability, bringing youth players in to the team and substitutions. Once again when we went behind JJ looked like a rabbit caught in headlights. No idea how to change thing and only used two of three available subs. Add to this his horrid, horrid record in Glasgow and I wonder how far he can take us.

[Guest]

1. Who is?

 

2. How do we get him, and why would he come here?

 

3. How would he work with Vlad?

 

4. Given the squad isn't good enough to finish above 3rd, maybe Jefferies, with a lifetime's experience in the game, simply realises that?

 

5. On here about a year ago, you couldn't even conceive of a way in which we'd improve much this season. Instead, we've improved out of all recognition. Shouldn't this "small time, safe" ( ) manager get credit for that from you?

 

To illustrate point 5, below is a table comparing all SPL sides' points totals now with what they had after the equivalent number of games last season. It makes pretty revealing reading:

 

1. Heart of Midlothian +18

 

2. Kilmarnock +16

 

3. Celtic +13

 

=4. Rangers +1

 

=4. Aberdeen +1

 

6. St Mirren -1

 

7. St Johnstone -2

 

=8. Motherwell -8

 

=8. Dundee United -8

 

10. Hamilton Academical -11

 

11. Hibernian -15

 

*no comparison possible for ICT, as they were in the SFL last season

 

So JJ's achieved more improvement than any other manager in the whole league. What a disgrace, eh?

What??Hibs down at the bottom..never changes eh!!

[Clerry Jambo]

Thats more of an additional point to my argument rather than a flaw. Seriously challenging the Old firm has been a live possibility for the last 4 or 5 years. We could have put ourselves in a position to do it, this season probably more than any other recent one. We had and still have the capability to have a much better squad, but a better manager, identifying better players, replacing players where replacement is the only obvious solution, varying the tactics, trying new things, taking risks and really going for it, especially at home, is essential. Especially important would be a manager who doesnt fill his pants every time the team bus passes Harthill Services.

 

Your on form tonight OAG and can't argue with any of that

 

We'll get 3rd this year and well done to JJ and his team.

 

But for me it's what he does during the summer ( or what he is allowed to do )

 

He needs to bring in the right signings because we will not romp to 3rd place like we have done so far.

 

I have said previously we do have the basis of a decent side but it needs 2 or 3 quality players who are first 11 and not just squad members......we have an abundance of them already

[kennyblack'sshot]

Without getting involved in the playground section of this thread (some people really should know better)

 

Two things have become apparent in the last few weeks.

 

1. This squad isnt good enough, in more ways than one, to finish above third. It doesnt have the bottle, the belief, the talent, the workrate or the mentality required to achieve that.

2. Jim Jefferies isnt a good enough manager to take Hearts beyond third. He hasnt got the bottle, the tactical nous or the mentality to do that. He is SMALL time. He is safe. He is limited.

 

Both points proven by the attitude and approach of our team and management in most games since New year, all in my opinion of course.

 

The Old Firm spent over ?15m between them before this season started, buying up mostly proven full international players. In January, they then went out and spent god knows how much more on wages to sign even more full internationals like Llungberg, Diouf and Commons to cover for injuries.

 

That's what any manager of Hearts is up against. I just don't get how anyone thinks we can compete with them without spending the kind of money we spent in 2005. JJ is a manager not a magician. I think he's built a decent squad so far with everyone fit. And it's obvious by signing Webster and going after Bryson that he knows where we need strengthening.

[shaun.lawson]

What??Hibs down at the bottom..never changes eh!!

 

 

Made me chuckle, I must admit. 15 points worse than the equivalent point last season - and that despite taking 16 points from their last 18 available!

 

[Only a Game]

Fair crack OAG

 

But surely our budget and level of signing doesn't allow us to win leagues!

 

Without harping back to the dreamy days of Romanov's first season, 3rd IS the best we can expect.

 

I'm personally not happy with that but that's where we should be - what's not acceptable is bottom six and all the crap that has happened previously

 

We're a third place club for as long as we have the mentality of a third place club.

 

We're actually not that far away from being right in the mix this season. I'd say maybe 4 players short and a bit more swagger, belief and winning mentality, coming from the management team downwards would make all the difference. You see threads on here every day naming players who we COULD get who WOULD improve our team that little bit more.

 

Ive been very disappointed by some of JJ's comments in the press lately. Most of it has reeked of settling for third. I'm happy with third if third is achieved by the best we can possibly out out there to achieve third. I just think we're in a position, and the rivals are in such a state, that we COULD do so much better than third. I dont believe that can be achieved with Jefferies as the manager though.

[Peebo]

We're a third place club for as long as we have the mentality of a third place club.

 

We're actually not that far away from being right in the mix this season. I'd say maybe 4 players short and a bit more swagger, belief and winning mentality, coming from the management team downwards would make all the difference. You see threads on here every day naming players who we COULD get who WOULD improve our team that little bit more.

 

Ive been very disappointed by some of JJ's comments in the press lately. Most of it has reeked of settling for third. I'm happy with third if third is achieved by the best we can possibly out out there to achieve third. I just think we're in a position, and the rivals are in such a state, that we COULD do so much better than third. I dont believe that can be achieved with Jefferies as the manager though.

 

Focusing on the bit about signing players, are you suggesting that Jefferies is the person who decides how many players we sign?

[rossthejambo]

Your on form tonight OAG and can't argue with any of that

 

We'll get 3rd this year and well done to JJ and his team.

 

But for me it's what he does during the summer ( or what he is allowed to do )

 

He needs to bring in the right signings because we will not romp to 3rd place like we have done so far.

 

I have said previously we do have the basis of a decent side but it needs 2 or 3 quality players who are first 11 and not just squad members......we have an abundance of them already

 

We're a right-back, central midfielder and goalscorer away from being a quality team (in the SPL) IMO. I agree with much of what's been said, but I'm not going to criticise the manager considering the transformation in the team in just over a year.

 

End of next season would be a good time to properly judge IMO.

[kennyblack'sshot]

We're a third place club for as long as we have the mentality of a third place club.

 

We're actually not that far away from being right in the mix this season. I'd say maybe 4 players short and a bit more swagger, belief and winning mentality, coming from the management team downwards would make all the difference. You see threads on here every day naming players who we COULD get who WOULD improve our team that little bit more.

 

Ive been very disappointed by some of JJ's comments in the press lately. Most of it has reeked of settling for third. I'm happy with third if third is achieved by the best we can possibly out out there to achieve third. I just think we're in a position, and the rivals are in such a state, that we COULD do so much better than third. I dont believe that can be achieved with Jefferies as the manager though.

 

Who would do a better job and how much money would they need? bearing in mind that even while in a complete financial mess Rangers went out and signed Diouf, Bartley and Healy in january - players that even with our 2005/06 budget we would not have been able to sign on loan or otherwise (even if we wanted to).

 

I'd love to see Hearts put in a challenge again but we need a combination of bigger budget, decent manager, above average players (who cost money - in 1998 there wasn't the additional competition from the Championship for Scotland's decent players. I don't think we'd get McCann, Cameron, etc these days - they'd go down south first), poor Old Firm, other teams taking points of the OF, and consistency over a whole season. It's a lot to ask for.

[Clerry Jambo]

We're a third place club for as long as we have the mentality of a third place club.

 

We're actually not that far away from being right in the mix this season. I'd say maybe 4 players short and a bit more swagger, belief and winning mentality, coming from the management team downwards would make all the difference. You see threads on here every day naming players who we COULD get who WOULD improve our team that little bit more.

 

Ive been very disappointed by some of JJ's comments in the press lately. Most of it has reeked of settling for third. I'm happy with third if third is achieved by the best we can possibly out out there to achieve third. I just think we're in a position, and the rivals are in such a state, that we COULD do so much better than third. I dont believe that can be achieved with Jefferies as the manager though.

 

Bit in bold is a marvellous opinion which deserves a thread of its own

 

If Vlad gave a Hearts manager the backing needed to challenge the OF consistently is JJ the man...interesting debate

[Robbo 75]

Just my tuppence worth but didnt we go on an outstanding run after the last time Killie turned us over at home, and wasn't the manager Jim Jeffries?

 

Just a thought....

[P-Dizzle]

I can take a defeat, but watching Jefferies just stand there without a clue was really annoying. We looked ok in the first half, but Killie had about 3-4 counter attacks where they outnumbered us, had they had a little more composure to find the final pass we could've been out of it by half-time.

 

We concede two goals where they just walk through our midfield and defense without any questions being asked, Jefferies brings Elliott on but we'd already thrown in the towel by that point. Why not use all three subs as well? What's the worst that could happen? Seriously, the players weren't great but Jefferies needs to have a good look at himself after today. We kept playing diagonal balls from the full-backs even though Elliot couldn't win a header all game and we had no targetman.

 

It was a pathetic display, Jefferies was outmatched tactically and he couldn't use the good area of his management style to get the players in to gear after we went down.

 

Total capitulation by management and the players. Not good enough.

[Only a Game]

The Old Firm spent over ?15m between them before this season started, buying up mostly proven full international players. In January, they then went out and spent god knows how much more on wages to sign even more full internationals like Llungberg, Diouf and Commons to cover for injuries.

 

That's what any manager of Hearts is up against. I just don't get how anyone thinks we can compete with them without spending the kind of money we spent in 2005. JJ is a manager not a magician. I think he's built a decent squad so far with everyone fit. And it's obvious by signing Webster and going after Bryson that he knows where we need strengthening.

 

Until recently we were within touching distance of those big spenders. I dont think the gap is unbridgable. Key people at Hearts seem to be taking the attitude that it is unbridgable. I'll never understand or accept that mentality when we arent really that far away. If we were back down in the pack just a few points ahead in 3rd or maybe in 4th battling for 3rd, I could understand it. But we're streets ahead of the rest, almost by accident and almost despite ourselves, and we're not THAT far away from being a club that could seriously challenge the OF. Its like a glass ceiling on achievement that we are scared to go the extra mile to break through.

 

I'm sorry but it doesnt take a magician to identify where we are short. Watch us for half a dozen games and you'll see it for yourself. In January we really needed a left back and a striker in my opinion. Blatantly obvious that we did. We're short of a bit of class in midfield, as we were when Jefferies arrived and it hasnt been fixed. We're short of a decent striker, which JJ, to his credit, identified and tried to fix, but hasnt. Hence why we had to play a woefully inadequate option up front on his own today and replaced him with another woeful inadequate.

[wright1989]

1. Who is?

 

2. How do we get him, and why would he come here?

 

3. How would he work with Vlad?

 

4. Given the squad isn't good enough to finish above 3rd, maybe Jefferies, with a lifetime's experience in the game, simply realises that?

5. On here about a year ago, you couldn't even conceive of a way in which we'd improve much this season. Instead, we've improved out of all recognition. Shouldn't this "small time, safe" ( ) manager get credit for that from you?

 

To illustrate point 5, below is a table comparing all SPL sides' points totals now with what they had after the equivalent number of games last season. It makes pretty revealing reading:

 

1. Heart of Midlothian +18

 

2. Kilmarnock +16

 

3. Celtic +13

 

=4. Rangers +1

 

=4. Aberdeen +1

 

6. St Mirren -1

 

7. St Johnstone -2

 

=8. Motherwell -8

 

=8. Dundee United -8

 

10. Hamilton Academical -11

 

11. Hibernian -15

 

*no comparison possible for ICT, as they were in the SFL last season

 

So JJ's achieved more improvement than any other manager in the whole league. What a disgrace, eh?

 

Now I'm not saying we can but ok here it goes. Although hopeless against smaller clubs Csaba was a breath of fresh air against the top two. Now with that in mind what would happen if JJ adopted a Csaba like tactic against the big two away and put a bit more thought into substitutions? I reckon he'd do quite well. Put it this way you will never get anything without trying to take it. I genuinely believe JJ didn't want to really have a go and now (Don't think he wants the pressure of what comes with it) we have nearly secured third he's not to bothered now and it's showed in the players performances.

 

Also a comment from a while ago that's stuck with me. It was along the lines 'I've been in this game long enough to know that if your players win their personal battles you will win the match.'

 

I may be wrong but was that not what it was like around the time JJ was a player? Times have changed.

 

I think JJ's got to the point where he thinks he knows everything about football he needs to.

In any job if you think like this you will never improve as your not looking at it in a certain way.

 

What I mean is after a match he may not look at things and think. 'Is there any way I can improve, maybe I could change things.' instead the way I think he goes about it is. 'It just wasn?t our day. Their players wanted it more.' Thus not taking anything from the game.

[Gigolo-Aunt]

We will win more than we lose, and for the most, will finish 3rd under JJ. History shows that splitting the old firm is bloody difficult.

 

We do however need to improve our cup record.

[wright1989]

I can take a defeat, but watching Jefferies just stand there without a clue was really annoying. We looked ok in the first half, but Killie had about 3-4 counter attacks where they outnumbered us, had they had a little more composure to find the final pass we could've been out of it by half-time.

 

We concede two goals where they just walk through our midfield and defense without any questions being asked, Jefferies brings Elliott on but we'd already thrown in the towel by that point. Why not use all three subs as well? What's the worst that could happen? Seriously, the players weren't great but Jefferies needs to have a good look at himself after today. We kept playing diagonal balls from the full-backs even though Elliot couldn't win a header all game and we had no targetman.

 

It was a pathetic display, Jefferies was outmatched tactically and he couldn't use the good area of his management style to get the players in to gear after we went down.

 

Total capitulation by management and the players. Not good enough.

 

 

Good assesment IMO.

 

I believe JJ was trying him out as a target man, that's why two TT's never started.

 

It wasn't a knee-jerk reaction from me it was the manner of our defeat and the thoughtless substitutions.

[Seymour M Hersh]

We will win more than we lose, and for the most, will finish 3rd under JJ. History shows that splitting the old firm is bloody difficult.

 

We do however need to improve our cup record.

 

You can learn from history. We haven"t .

[Gigolo-Aunt]

You can learn from history. We haven"t .

 

Well nobody in Scottish football has learnt.

 

What do we need to do then?

 

Whatever you come up with will be damn difficult to put in to practice.

[kennyblack'sshot]

Until recently we were within touching distance of those big spenders. I dont think the gap is unbridgable. Key people at Hearts seem to be taking the attitude that it is unbridgable. I'll never understand or accept that mentality when we arent really that far away. If we were back down in the pack just a few points ahead in 3rd or maybe in 4th battling for 3rd, I could understand it. But we're streets ahead of the rest, almost by accident and almost despite ourselves, and we're not THAT far away from being a club that could seriously challenge the OF. Its like a glass ceiling on achievement that we are scared to go the extra mile to break through.

 

I'm sorry but it doesnt take a magician to identify where we are short. Watch us for half a dozen games and you'll see it for yourself. In January we really needed a left back and a striker in my opinion. Blatantly obvious that we did. We're short of a bit of class in midfield, as we were when Jefferies arrived and it hasnt been fixed. We're short of a decent striker, which JJ, to his credit, identified and tried to fix, but hasnt. Hence why we had to play a woefully inadequate option up front on his own today and replaced him with another woeful inadequate.

 

To bridge the gap - just for one season - we would need to triple our wage bill (if our wage cap is now about ?4 grand a week) and spend at least ?5m in pre-season just to start a season on a level playing field with the OF.

 

In that case, I don't think JJ would be the right manager and we might be able to attract someone decent with that kind of budget on the table.

 

However, we are talking reality. And the reality is that we don't and probably never will have that budget (or if we do the OF will probably also have more as it will mean the economy has taken off again). So we need someone who knows the Scottish game, can develop youngsters and can work with a limited budget. So with that criteria I don;t think we can do better than JJ right now.

 

I admire your ambition. My eyes were opened in 2005/06 as I saw how it could be possible to challenge with the right set of circumstances. And I think we were unlucky. If the economy hadn't crashed and we had been able to build the new stand, we would have been in a position to attract more revenue and close the gap a bit more. I think we've missed the chance, but the good thing is Romanov does seem committed and so if the stand goes ahead and things pick up I could see him spending money on the team again. Then we would be looking for a different type of manager to JJ.

[P-Dizzle]

Good assesment IMO.

 

I believe JJ was trying him out as a target man, that's why two TT's never started.

 

It wasn't a knee-jerk reaction from me it was the manner of our defeat and the thoughtless substitutions.

 

It was disheartening to watch us fall like that. I can take us losing, but watching JJ stand there and do nothing, like a rabbit in the headlights was ******* annoying.

 

Why not throw on another attacker? I'd rather we lost 3-0 and had a go at them than play that utter shite and still lose 2-0. It was such a poor performance, the style of football we played didn't match the players we had.

 

Like I was saying about the long diagonal balls from the full-backs, it doesn't work if the ball won't stick to your frontman. Why didn't we put the keeper under more pressure? We put one ball on top of him all game, and you know what happened? He fumbled it and Bouzid nearly made a chance out of it, why were we not mixing up out set piece delivery? Why were we not taking shots at the keeper from distance in the hope that he'd be as shakey as we'd seen? Why did we persist with the same old crossfield balls from Stevenson all game when it clearly wasn't happening down the flanks?

 

Then there's Skacel. The guy did nothing all game, and was lucky not to get sent off for that elbow challenge in the first half, from my seat that looked like a really dirty attempt to hurt the Killie player and I'd have had no issue with him going off for that.

 

 

It simply wasn't good enough. This isn't about the defeat, it's the manner of it.

[Guest]

Good assesment IMO.

 

I believe JJ was trying him out as a target man, that's why two TT's never started.

 

It wasn't a knee-jerk reaction from me it was the manner of our defeat and the thoughtless substitutions.

You can only pish with the ^^^^ you've got and formation-tactically you can't do much more with the players at his disposal,granted you can shuffle the pack about but it's still the same players out there, so without cash for players [which can be a bad move given some signings he made after our cup win in 98]and a free reign in who comes into the club any manager will do well getting to 3rd.

[Only a Game]

Who would do a better job and how much money would they need? bearing in mind that even while in a complete financial mess Rangers went out and signed Diouf, Bartley and Healy in january - players that even with our 2005/06 budget we would not have been able to sign on loan or otherwise (even if we wanted to).

 

I'd love to see Hearts put in a challenge again but we need a combination of bigger budget, decent manager, above average players (who cost money - in 1998 there wasn't the additional competition from the Championship for Scotland's decent players. I don't think we'd get McCann, Cameron, etc these days - they'd go down south first), poor Old Firm, other teams taking points of the OF, and consistency over a whole season. It's a lot to ask for.

 

 

Lets get this straight. We CANT and WONT EVER compete on a financial level with them. I'm not that impressed with the contributions to date from Diouf, Bartley and Healey anyway but you dont neccesarily need that type of signing to challenge them. We will never outspend them, but we dont need to

 

You do it the Dundee Utd or the Aberdeen way. Its still possible to do what they did and its still perfectly valid and workable.

 

You get the best and hungriest, most motivated manager that you can possibly source. (as they did) There are better and hungrier ones than Jefferies in this league already in my opinion (Terry Butcher for example). You get one who isnt in awe of the Old firm (Ferguson and Mclean werent but you might have to look further afield for that) You spend a year building a squad that has the talent, the hunger, the desire, the balance and the togetherness required (thats what Ferguson and Mclean did) You get rid of anything and anybody that doesnt fit in, or isnt on board with what your trying to do ( thats what Ferguson and Mclean did)

[shaun.lawson]

Now I'm not saying we can but ok here it goes. Although hopeless against smaller clubs Csaba was a breath of fresh air against the top two. Now with that in mind what would happen if JJ adopted a Csaba like tactic against the big two away and put a bit more thought into substitutions? I reckon he'd do quite well. Put it this way you will never get anything without trying to take it. I genuinely believe JJ didn't want to really have a go and now (Don't think he wants the pressure of what comes with it) we have nearly secured third he's not to bothered now and it's showed in the players performances.

 

Also a comment from a while ago that's stuck with me. It was along the lines 'I've been in this game long enough to know that if your players win their personal battles you will win the match.'

 

I may be wrong but was that not what it was like around the time JJ was a player? Times have changed.

 

I think JJ's got to the point where he thinks he knows everything about football he needs to.

In any job if you think like this you will never improve as your not looking at it in a certain way.

 

What I mean is after a match he may not look at things and think. 'Is there any way I can improve, maybe I could change things.' instead the way I think he goes about it is. 'It just wasn?t our day. Their players wanted it more.' Thus not taking anything from the game.

 

Interesting post, and I agree with your conclusion. Thing is though, I absolutely do think we 'went for it' at Celtic. The trouble was we were far too open, incredibly naive, and I honestly think the players believed in themselves too much. Their sheer shock at what happened then led to the Rangers game becoming a damage limitation, back to basics sort of exercise.

 

Could JJ emulate Csaba in Glasgow? Unfortunately not - because all JJ's teams play football, and the way he has us playing now (at least in theory) is a world removed from Csaba-ball. JJ's unusual in SPL terms in how attractively he wants to play. This enables us to often dominate non-OF sides in a way Csaba couldn't; but it also leaves us exposed against the OF. Csaba's more of a Levein type: pragmatic, ugly at times, but hard to beat, which works well against the Glasgow two, not so well against the rest.

 

I do agree that JJ tends to shrug off bad defeats and bad runs too easily, and still believe to this day that he was spooked forever by what happened in 1998/9. Hearts started that season thinking we were serious title contenders, and spent most of in very real danger of the drop. I think this made his outlook much more cautious; but by the same token, there's no chance of us winning the league if the squad and team isn't good enough. And at present, for all our huge improvement this season, it just isn't.

 

We will win more than we lose, and for the most, will finish 3rd under JJ. History shows that splitting the old firm is bloody difficult.

 

We do however need to improve our cup record.

 

Absolutely! Many have said that JJ will be judged at the end of next season - but that ignores that Hearts almost always follow a good season with a disappointing one. That being the case, we're effectively expecting him to do something that only one Hearts manager since the early 1960s (!) has ever managed; and assuming we go backwards, to keep his job, he desperately needs to reach a Cup Final, and really to win it.

[Seymour M Hersh]

Well nobody in Scottish football has learnt.

 

What do we need to do then?

 

Whatever you come up with will be damn difficult to put in to practice.

 

Are you kidding?

 

Yet again this season (when the infirm are so much weaker than 98) our manager bottles it going to Glasgow. Is (apparently) pretty easy to beat tactically but yet you want me to come up with the answer? Are you happy with performances/tactics recently. Do you see the similarities between now and then?

[wright1989]

You can only pish with the ^^^^ you've got and formation-tactically you can't do much more with the players at his disposal,granted you can shuffle the pack about but it's still the same players out there, so without cash for players [which can be a bad move given some signings he made after our cup win in 98]and a free reign in who comes into the club any manager will do well getting to 3rd.

but I think we had enough quality to see of Killie today. I suppose you can't win every game though.

[kennyblack'sshot]

Lets get this straight. We CANT and WONT EVER compete on a financial level with them. I'm not that impressed with the contributions to date from Diouf, Bartley and Healey anyway but you dont neccesarily need that type of signing to challenge them. We will never outspend them, but we dont need to

 

You do it the Dundee Utd or the Aberdeen way. Its still possible to do what they did and its still perfectly valid and workable.

 

You get the best and hungriest, most motivated manager that you can possibly source. (as they did) There are better and hungrier ones than Jefferies in this league already in my opinion. You get one who isnt in awe of the Old firm (Ferguson and Mclean werent but you might have to look further afield for that) You spend a year building a squad that has the talent, the hunger, the desire, the balance and the togetherness required (thats what Ferguson and Mclean did) You get rid of anything and anybody that doesnt fit in, or isnt on board with what your trying to do ( thats what Ferguson and Mclean did)

 

Sorry mate but it's not still perfectly valid and workable. It was a different football world then. No Sky TV, no CL, no Championship, no paying 120,000 a week to players, no 50m transfer fees, no teams like Wigan paying 600,000 for one-season wonders like Conor Salmon to not even sit on the bench. Plus, the gap between the OF and the rest in those days was much, much less.

 

Look down south - the teams in the top five are the big spenders. If another team wants to break in on a consistent basis, like Man City, they have to become a big spender. It's no different with us and the OF. Either they have to get much worse and spend much less or we have to get much better and spend much more. Getting much better means buying and retaining better players, which is much harder now than during the McLean and Fergie days when they didn't face competition from Championshp and League 1 teams for their best players. (I mean, didn't Andy Kirk triple his wages or something by moving from us to Boston Bloody Utd!)

 

There is no way on earth that D Utd or Aberdeen would keep those great teams together long enough to do what they did in today's football world. And keeping the team together is crucial to challenging - that's why any teams in Scotland, like us, usually have a bad season after a good one - because our team gets plundered.

[rossthejambo]

It was disheartening to watch us fall like that. I can take us losing, but watching JJ stand there and do nothing, like a rabbit in the headlights was ******* annoying.

 

Why not throw on another attacker? I'd rather we lost 3-0 and had a go at them than play that utter shite and still lose 2-0. It was such a poor performance, the style of football we played didn't match the players we had.

 

Like I was saying about the long diagonal balls from the full-backs, it doesn't work if the ball won't stick to your frontman. Why didn't we put the keeper under more pressure? We put one ball on top of him all game, and you know what happened? He fumbled it and Bouzid nearly made a chance out of it, why were we not mixing up out set piece delivery? Why were we not taking shots at the keeper from distance in the hope that he'd be as shakey as we'd seen? Why did we persist with the same old crossfield balls from Stevenson all game when it clearly wasn't happening down the flanks?

 

Then there's Skacel. The guy did nothing all game, and was lucky not to get sent off for that elbow challenge in the first half, from my seat that looked like a really dirty attempt to hurt the Killie player and I'd have had no issue with him going off for that.

 

 

It simply wasn't good enough. This isn't about the defeat, it's the manner of it.

 

 

I tried to stay positive when I saw the team lineup but after last weeks game, I still can't get understand how JJ thought that Mrowiec and Stevenson in the middle of the park would work after how ineffective it was last week.

 

And once they went down to 10 men, why not just go for it. Stick Glen and Elliott on with Clum.

 

But, considering how well we've done this season, I'm willing to let it slide and put it down to a bad day at the office for JJ and co.