wage gaps

[TheBigO]

From yesterday's evening hobo. Think may have been discussed in an Aguiar thread, but I found the highlighted part the most interesting...

 

 

By BARRY ANDERSON

CSABA LASZLO today expressed his sadness at Bruno Aguiar's departure from Hearts as it emerged that Omonia Nicosia are attempting to lure the Portuguese midfielder to Cyprus.

Having already procured Christos Karipidis on a pre-contract agreement, Omonia have approached Aguiar's representatives and are hopeful of concluding a deal after he left Tynecastle on freedom of contract.

 

Karipidis will be presented to the Cypri

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ot media tomorrow after signing a three-year deal, and further negotiations with Aguiar are planned over the coming days.

 

Laszlo lamented the loss of the talismanic 28-year-old, saying: "I am sorry for Bruno, he is out. I think we gave him a good possibility to present his talent. I am sad to hear he has left the club and he won't accept our offer.

 

"The other side is my strategy, and I convinced Mr Romanov that I don't like to have too much gap in salaries. We must be serious. I can understand Bruno is not very young and we must accept this. It is always a question of money.

 

"Bruno and Karipidis had key roles in my team and I am very sad to lose these two players, not only because of their talent but their character."

 

A source at Omonia Nicosia confirmed that the club are exploring ways to convince Aguiar to move to Cyprus. "We are interested but until now I don't know if we will sign him," said the source.

 

"The player is positive to come but there is a lot to talk about in the negotiations, money and all these things."

 

 

 

I think this is probably good news and will see an end to us signing 'superstars' who frankly haven't worked out in recent times (since Takis and Rudi et al).

 

I don't think there's a lot wrong with having a group of good youngsters earning around the same and a couple of old heads maybe earning a few bob more.

 

I also think it's interesting he said he 'convinced' VR of this. It could be a language thing, which I'm always wary of (being an English teacher), but it reads like this is what Csaba wants and he's reigning VR in a bit, who maybe wanted to make 1 or 2 big signings rather than 4 or 5 decent ones which we need more....

 

Could it also mean he wants Larry and Nade outa here...?

 

Am i reading too much into an innocent quote. If i am, I blame the close season and the boredom entailed there-in.

[Statto]

I think he is talking about his wages, he may have been offered a contract worth less than last season' one, whe he says he doesn't like the gap, he may be meaning the difference or the drop in wages we offered.

[Jambo83]

I think he is talking about his wages, he may have been offered a contract worth less than last season' one, whe he says he doesn't like the gap, he may be meaning the difference or the drop in wages we offered.

 

Doubt it, can't see Csaba talking about his own deal.

 

As the OP says, reckon he wants a group of players on similar deals, with no hotshot bigheads like Kingston.

[Feeno]

I think its more to do with managin ego's and keeping everyone relativley on an even keel, no resentment between players. I applaud this.

[I'M IBRAHIM TALL]

I'm very wary of these EEN pieces that offer much yet say nothing. We have heard many times Csaba say he wants this many players and he did guarantee us a striker in January which didn't materialise (although im not sure the failure to get one was Csaba's)

 

The signing policy for now is cheap, more than likely foreign, who can play in 2 or 3 positions. Black is in. I think Mrowiec will return. I would give Tullberg another bash (ONLY on loan and with an option to send him back if his injuries return). I think a centre back will come in and another striker, which I've no doubt no one will have heard of (which isn't necessarily a bad thing). I also really really hope the Icelandic boy from Reggiana comes in but that is more hope than expectation.

 

As for the likes of Hartley and Lee Miller, I think we can dream on to be honest. I dont see us paying the wage they will want and I also dont see them fitting Vlads criterea.

[Statto]

Doubt it, can't see Csaba talking about his own deal.

 

As the OP says, reckon he wants a group of players on similar deals, with no hotshot bigheads like Kingston.

 

Ah, I thought it was Bruno talking, my mistake but definitely, Csaba wants players on similar wage structures from the sounds of this article.

[denholm87]

I think this is probably good news and will see an end to us signing 'superstars' who frankly haven't worked out in recent times (since Takis and Rudi et al).

 

Havent worked out. Was it not those so called superstars that got us 2nd in the league and won us the scottish cup.

[Victorian]

i don't think it's possible to operate with all players getting the same but it would be far better to do away with the ludicrous position of having certain players getting 3,4 or 5 times as much as others.

 

if we're going to be able to attract the odd bigger name or experienced player then he will want a certain amount. maybe some other way can be found to develop a rigid wages structure along with paying signing on fees or bonuses etc etc.

 

i would hope to see no player at hearts getting any more than say ?4K pw. you can surely still get good players on that kind of money.

[adam1998]

"The other side is my strategy, and I convinced Mr Romanov that I don't like to have too much gap in salaries"

 

Maybe it is to do with a gap in players wages being paid

 

Romanov may have the strategy in not paying them on time makes them play better

 

TBH I think getting all the players pay to similar levels would make more sense and weed out the mercenaries

[TheBigO]

Havent worked out. Was it not those so called superstars that got us 2nd in the league and won us the scottish cup.

 

Check out the word 'since' in my post and then post again.

[Paolo]

i don't think it's possible to operate with all players getting the same but it would be far better to do away with the ludicrous position of having certain players getting 3,4 or 5 times as much as others.

 

if we're going to be able to attract the odd bigger name or experienced player then he will want a certain amount. maybe some other way can be found to develop a rigid wages structure along with paying signing on fees or bonuses etc etc.

 

i would hope to see no player at hearts getting any more than say ?4K pw. you can surely still get good players on that kind of money.

 

 

I do not think he is on about paying them the same - but similiar.

 

I do think a captain should get paid a bit more than a player of similiar standard, but when you have players on ?2K to ?3K and one on ?10K to ?15k and not contributing any more, that is where there are problems.

[denholm87]

Sorry my mistake. I slighty misread it

[Victorian]

I do not think he is on about paying them the same - but similiar.

 

I do think a captain should get paid a bit more than a player of similiar standard, but when you have players on ?2K to ?3K and one on ?10K to ?15k and not contributing any more, that is where there are problems.

correct.

 

i would like to see a narrower band between the players getting the least and the ones getting the most. top earner to get ?4K. bigger emphasis on results based bonuses. some other system of attracting high earning players by paying them one-off fees or giving them percentages of future sell on fees.

 

be seeing yous larry and nadger.

[Guest JamboRobbo]

This is always a difficult balancing act for football clubs.

 

To keep holding on to your better players, you need to pay them big bucks. Which makes the other players want the big bucks too.

 

But fail to pay the big bucks to your best players, and they will leave.

 

So it's a case of trying to spend wisely where you can, spending whats required for "winning games right now", whilst still keeping overall spending under control for the long term good of the club.

 

Seems to me that Csaba talks a lot of sense and knows what is required to build a team. I hope his judgement is backed as it will lead to success for HMFC imo, but if he isn't backed, I think he'll go off to bigger and better things elsewhere.

[Tiberius Stinkfinger]

correct.

 

i would like to see a narrower band between the players getting the least and the ones getting the most. top earner to get ?4K. bigger emphasis on results based bonuses. some other system of attracting high earning players by paying them one-off fees or giving them percentages of future sell on fees.

 

be seeing yous larry and nadger.

 

 

In a perfect word I reckon Csaba would offload the pair of them yesterday Victoriaman.

 

The problem will be getting another club to fork out the wages I'm afraid to say.

Has either of these crooks shown enough this season to warrant another club forking out a fee and at the very least matching their wages...I think not.

 

I think we are stuck with them until their contracts run out...Feckin hope not mind.

[TheBigO]

Sorry my mistake. I slighty misread it

 

Nae worries chief - sorry for being sarcy back. It's my only chance, she slaps me if i'm lippy!

 

correct.

 

i would like to see a narrower band between the players getting the least and the ones getting the most. top earner to get ?4K. bigger emphasis on results based bonuses. some other system of attracting high earning players by paying them one-off fees or giving them percentages of future sell on fees.

 

be seeing yous larry and nadger.

 

I agree with this, infact with pretty much everything on this thread, what i would say though is that, sometimes, a player is worth the extra.

 

He has to be a player that the rest of the squad really respect and can easily realise why he gets more. I would put resigning Hartley as one of these cases.

 

I think it can be a noose to have a rigid wage structure and up until recently even Man U were choked by it sometimes. I think an unpublicised club strategy is the very thing, but it needs to be a little flexible just incase someone comes along you can't turn down. (i.e. the cap is ?4k, but Iniesta wants ?6k, that kind of thing - although we maybe have enough midfielders)

[Buffalo Bill]

From the 'crazy days' of 06/07 to the credit-crunch of 09/10, we are gradually getting the wage figures down and really, we only have Nade and Kingston to get rid off and we'll be back to a sensible level.

 

I've said it on here loads of times but there are plenty of players who would love to play for Heart of Midlothian, at atmospheric Tynecastle, living in the fine capital city of Edinburgh, which is not far from the riches of the English Premiership and Championship.

 

Even if they're on ?3-4K a week.

 

 

Don't get me wrong: I know Larry Kingston is capable of having the odd good game but deary me: a club like ours shouldn't be forking out ?12K a week for some over-rated journeyman.

 

 

 

Buffalo Bill

 

.

[Victorian]

In a perfect word I reckon Csaba would offload the pair of them yesterday Victoriaman.

 

The problem will be getting another club to fork out the wages I'm afraid to say.

Has either of these crooks shown enough this season to warrant another club forking out a fee and at the very least matching their wages...I think not.

 

I think we are stuck with them until their contracts run out...Feckin hope not mind.

you could be right there lionbar. maybe it's even time to look at loaning out nade to clear some of his wages off the wage bill. i think we can get a fee for kingston and someone out there might just relieve us of that particular albatross.

[TheBigO]

you could be right there lionbar. maybe it's even time to look at loaning out nade to clear some of his wages off the wage bill. i think we can get a fee for kingston and someone out there might just relieve us of that particular albatross.

 

It's sometimes amazing what a good agent can do to get a player a move. I'm sure if Hearts had a wee word in these two's agents shell-likes, told them the minimum price (remember Mr Agent gets a cut so wants the highest possible figure too), they'd certainly do their damnedest to find them new clubs.

 

I think we should/would take pennies for Nade and anything over ?500K for Larry.

 

I actually think they're both decent players - i like them, especially Larry - but they're just not what hearts need nor can afford. I can see why we signed them, and don't blame anyone tbh, but time to go lads...

[Victorian]

It's sometimes amazing what a good agent can do to get a player a move. I'm sure if Hearts had a wee word in these two's agents shell-likes, told them the minimum price (remember Mr Agent gets a cut so wants the highest possible figure too), they'd certainly do their damnedest to find them new clubs.

 

I think we should/would take pennies for Nade and anything over ?500K for Larry.

 

I actually think they're both decent players - i like them, especially Larry - but they're just not what hearts need nor can afford. I can see why we signed them, and don't blame anyone tbh, but time to go lads...

agreed. i have nothing against nade in particular, i think he's done a pretty decent job all told. he hasn't justifed the level of wages but he's a decent player nonetheless. we simply can't afford that kind of wages any longer and he has to go.

 

kingston may or may not have been 'at it' to a degree. if his constant injuries are legit then what can you do? it's not his fault. what is obviously though is that he became a 'non trier' for a spell and that can't be excused. there was a time when he was a potential ?3/4M asset but that all blew up big style. his sell by date has long since expired.

[milky_26]

From the 'crazy days' of 06/07 to the credit-crunch of 09/10, we are gradually getting the wage figures down and really, we only have Nade and Kingston to get rid off and we'll be back to a sensible level.

 

I've said it on here loads of times but there are plenty of players who would love to play for Heart of Midlothian, at atmospheric Tynecastle, living in the fine capital city of Edinburgh, which is not far from the riches of the English Premiership and Championship.

 

Even if they're on ?3-4K a week.

 

 

Don't get me wrong: I know Larry Kingston is capable of having the odd good game but deary me: a club like ours shouldn't be forking out ?12K a week for some over-rated journeyman.

 

 

 

Buffalo Bill

 

.

 

isn't Goncalves still on a decent wage that we will need to get reduced

[itsnomarooned]

Bottom line is that we have to operate squarely within our means otherwise it's disaster all round. Generally we won't be able to pay for and therefore attract "superstars" so we'll need to bring on younger talent or lesser known players who will use us as a bit of a springboard for greater things. I've no real issue with this as long as the club moves forward in terms of consistent league position, cup wins and slow but steady Eurpoean progress. This will bring revenue, therefore enabling us to attract a slightly better player, therefore enabling some further steady progress etc. A sensible wage structure fostering team spirit (or at least not jeapordising team spirit) is the way forward.

 

Also - while I appreciate that football, in general, operates in stupid money terms, I do find it a bit galling that players may be turning their nose up at, say, ?2k per week. I mean, this is over ?100k per year which is a phenomenal wage back here on planet Earth! Difficult to resist I imagine.

[Jamboscanbevicius]

Personally I would take about ?250k for Kingston, Nade, and Goncalves.

 

I think they are all out of contract next summer so their heads will be turned in January and they'll walk for free anyway, and the wages it would free up should allow us to being in 2 or 3 honest players who will work for the team on less money!

[TheBigO]

Bottom line is that we have to operate squarely within our means otherwise it's disaster all round. Generally we won't be able to pay for and therefore attract "superstars" so we'll need to bring on younger talent or lesser known players who will use us as a bit of a springboard for greater things. I've no real issue with this as long as the club moves forward in terms of consistent league position, cup wins and slow but steady Eurpoean progress. This will bring revenue, therefore enabling us to attract a slightly better player, therefore enabling some further steady progress etc. A sensible wage structure fostering team spirit (or at least not jeapordising team spirit) is the way forward.

 

Also - while I appreciate that football, in general, operates in stupid money terms, I do find it a bit galling that players may be turning their nose up at, say, ?2k per week. I mean, this is over ?100k per year which is a phenomenal wage back here on planet Earth! Difficult to resist I imagine.

 

But if you can get ?5k per week elsewhere....

 

Rememeber the career of a footballer is short and can end at any minute. Don't get me wrong, greed is pandemic in the game, but at SPL level, you only have to go back to the likes of Henry Smith and guys like that who work as cabbies, posties and prison wardens. Nothing wrong with these jobs, but i think there's nowt wrong with wanting your football career to set you and you family up for life given shrewd investment etc...

[JamboAl]

Doubt it, can't see Csaba talking about his own deal.

 

As the OP says, reckon he wants a group of players on similar deals, with no hotshot bigheads like Kingston.

 

I think that is right.

While he was acknowledging Aguair's qualities and sad to lose him, he was conversely happy that another of the bigger earners is off the payroll. He is a great advocate of "togetherness" and he is more likely to achieve this if there is less of a wage disparity which often causes envy and friction amongst players.

If this is correct we can look out for the departures (before the end of the January window) of Larry, Nade and possibly Goncalves who could be away before he even gets back.

[itsnomarooned]

But if you can get ?5k per week elsewhere....

 

Rememeber the career of a footballer is short and can end at any minute. Don't get me wrong, greed is pandemic in the game, but at SPL level, you only have to go back to the likes of Henry Smith and guys like that who work as cabbies, posties and prison wardens. Nothing wrong with these jobs, but i think there's nowt wrong with wanting your football career to set you and you family up for life given shrewd investment etc...

 

I agree - I daresay we shouldn't grudge a young guy making hay while the sun shines etc. It's a bit annoying that there's just an acceptance that folk can have a 15 year career then do hee-haw for the rest of their lives.

 

I'm desperately trying not to sound sour grapes but probably failing miserably!

[Brian Whittaker's Tache]

I remember reading in Gary Mackay's book about the wage structure when he was playing and Wallace was the chairman.

 

Was it not something like a bonus for say 4 games in a row won or something like that.

 

I think lower wages and decent win bonuses should be the way forward at Tynecastle.

 

I'm no accountant but surely someone could calculate the increase in revenue for say a top 2 finish and a champions league place or a 3rd spot finish and a Europa place then work out the number of points needed to achieve these goals and base bonuses on progress towards those and the extra revenue accrued.

[TheBigO]

I agree - I daresay we shouldn't grudge a young guy making hay while the sun shines etc. It's a bit annoying that there's just an acceptance that folk can have a 15 year career then do hee-haw for the rest of their lives.

 

I'm desperately trying not to sound sour grapes but probably failing miserably!

 

I know, it's hard eh. Fact is, most of us would play for Hearts for the wages we're on now, and to hell when the career's over, I'll get a paper round, I played for Hearts. Unfortunately, the pro's dont think like fans! Or fortunately actually cos i'd have got myself into too much trouble v the OF and Hoobs!

 

I always say when people talk about the gross money sportsmen, singers and actors make that atleast they provide a service which people love and cherish. I've much more problem with city fatcats ripping us off, doing us no service and raking in just as much and in most cases, even more money

[Victorian]

as long as csaba is kept fully in the loop at all stages and can be convinced that he's getting hee-haw to spend for good reason.

 

i could see csaba walking if he's getting messed about but if everyone is fully open and up front with him then he is far more likely to accept things the way they are.

 

csaba can more than make up for a lower budget. lose him and we may as well call ourselves hibs.

[Jammy T]

I dont think we can use Hearts as an example of why it isnt right to bring in expensive players

 

God knows, the money we have spent, had we actually had a decent scouting network, an effective transfer policy and a sane decision maker in the process we'd have won the league at least once - look how close we were to challenging on one sensbible transfer window

 

But with Romanov still in charge we're much safer having a sensible wage cap in place.

 

We'd want it to be higher than the other SPL clubs so I am guessing around ?2.5k to ?3k per week would be about ball park.

[shaun.lawson]

All along, Csaba has played the game of getting Vlad to trust him by making suggestions that he knows he can't disapprove of. First, shortly after his arrival, he castigated the players for taking the **** last season: the inference being that if Romanov let him do his job, he'd ensure Vlad would get value for money. Now, he's talking about salaries all being quite close to each other: and if that means paying new signings less, again, how can Romanov have a problem with it?

 

He's right too. A big gap in salaries within a squad leads to resentment and cliques forming, and stores up trouble when other players demand increases or new signings expect to be paid what the squad's highest earners are on. Your best bet is always to maintain a sensible wage structure and not break it: because that helps foster cameraderie among the players, and means you won't be punished financially if you succeed.

 

Csaba only wants lean, hungry players with the right attitude; and so, surely, does the man in charge of the purse strings.

[Marmeladent?rtchen]

I read somewhere that the new york yankees had an open wage structure where everyone got to see what people were paid. People were rewarded for performance and top earners would get millions and lesser performers would be would get thousands. But the system works! That said I dont know the full details.

[JamboAl]

All along, Csaba has played the game of getting Vlad to trust him by making suggestions that he knows he can't disapprove of. First, shortly after his arrival, he castigated the players for taking the **** last season: the inference being that if Romanov let him do his job, he'd ensure Vlad would get value for money. Now, he's talking about salaries all being quite close to each other: and if that means paying new signings less, again, how can Romanov have a problem with it?

 

He's right too. A big gap in salaries within a squad leads to resentment and cliques forming, and stores up trouble when other players demand increases or new signings expect to be paid what the squad's highest earners are on. Your best bet is always to maintain a sensible wage structure and not break it: because that helps foster cameraderie among the players, and means you won't be punished financially if you succeed.

 

I'm sure I just said as much.

 

Csaba only wants lean, hungry players with the right attitude; and so, surely, does the man in charge of the purse strings.

 

 

VR will always be in charge of the purse strings and rightly so as he effectively owns the club. There is a difference however as compared with the past. If they have contracts with lower basic pay, bolstered by performance money, then Csaba will be deciding who are the highest earners ie those who he picks for most games. That should get rid of the wage thieves who spend most of their time "injured" or displaying inadequate effort for the cause.