Guest Fabuloso Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 Leaving semantics aside whether or not we achieved the group stages we did qualify for the initial stages of the CL. In 1998 we did not play an SPL team till the Final IIRC. That was the precursor to a huge increase in the club debt that still accounts for the large majority of our indebtedness since and threatened our Tynecastle home. Thats being kind of factual. They weren't allowed to play the CL music! Anyhow it's about time people started looking at VR and what he gives rather than wondering what would have been. Saving us from MF doesn't give him the right to disrespect fans the way he does. He doesn't care if the team wins or loses. That spells trouble for me.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 true he kept us at tynie, we did well the season we won the cup and qualified for europe but he had already started to mismanage the team to the extent the team became a shambles, the players were messed about, he paid over the odds for rubbish players and he lost the trust in the vast majority of hearts fans. romanov has shown he's incompetent when it comes to signing players and appointing managers and i believe it's only down to luck that we now have a manager who is up to the job. romanov has done some good things but he has made too many mistakes, told too many lies, and shown contempt for the fans. most of the fans will find it very hard to ever trust him again. classic. so when romanov hires a bad manager or signs a bad player, that's down to incompetence..... but when vlad hires a good manager, that's down to luck. you couldn't make it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PresidentRomanov Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 Even on the Hibs definition of a CL place we got within one winnable tie of a "CL proper" place. And in '06 we beat three top six SPL sides to reach the final. Last year Rangers beat one (the greatest Scottish Cup losers) after a replay. It annoys me when Hearts fans belittle Hearts achievements this way. Don't worry then Francis, a Hearts fan wasn't doing that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Fabuloso Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 Even on the Hibs definition of a CL place we got within one winnable tie of a "CL proper" place. And in '06 we beat three top six SPL sides to reach the final. Last year Rangers beat one (the greatest Scottish Cup losers) after a replay. It annoys me when Hearts fans belittle Hearts achievements this way. You belittle the team's achievements by thanking VR for a cup. Pathetic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Fabuloso Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 Don't worry then Francis, a Hearts fan wasn't doing that Yeah, don't worry Franny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin_T Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 If the debt is down around circa Robinson levels, then that will be very positive news. It could be argued that this would not have been possible without Romanov's involvement, indeed I think our debt would be higher without his input. Consider the following: Interest payments to a UK commercial bank would have been higher Gordon, Hartley and Berra would have gone for 'firesale prices' There would have been no Bednar or Goncalves to sell Average home attendance under Romanov's regime has consistently averaged 3 to 4,000 greater than Robinson's last season. Turnover has significantly increased I think if the club had theoretically stayed at Tynecastle under Robinson, the club would have continued to bleed money each season and would have been in significantly more debt. I am no fan of how Romanov has run the footballing side of the club, but there is no doubt the overall impact on the clubs finances looks like it will have been positive, even if the journey to get there was incredibly turbulent and extremely risky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 We stil have the usual suspects unhappy that Hearts won on Saturday and have tied up a fantastic commercial deal, maybe they are the ones that wanted to go to Muddyfield. Maybe some of them prefer to go to Fester Simey? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambos are go! Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 They weren't allowed to play the CL music! Anyhow it's about time people started looking at VR and what he gives rather than wondering what would have been. Saving us from MF doesn't give him the right to disrespect fans the way he does. He doesn't care if the team wins or loses. That spells trouble for me.. Please explain who or what you mean by 'they'. A strange term indeed. What about my other retorts to your post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Fabuloso Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 Please explain who or what you mean by 'they'. A strange term indeed. What about my other retorts to your post. 'They' being the sound engineers at Murrayfield - or maybe I'm a secret Hobo who's once again been caught out by the amateur detective work of the KB posse! Your earlier points were valid in that Hearts were managed badly however you have to admit VR has got good milage out of that one. How long will VR bask in the praise of Hearts fans remains to be seen. The football should mean more to people. Hearts had a go at trying to qualify for the CL however VR didn't put his money where his mouth was when it came to the crunch (two metaphors for the price of one there). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 Incidentally according to the last accounts most of the remaining debt was on variable rates based on 1% or 1.5% above base rates. This means that interest costs will have fallen dramatically over the last 12 month The exceptions were a tranche of ?3m owed to Ukios Bankas at 6.49% and the debt to UBIG which was ?13.2m at the time of the accounts but had been reduced to ?12m by the time of the equity deal which then wiped it out. My rough calculations suggest that the combination of the equity deal and the drop in base rates should see the current cost of servicing the debt reduced from the ?1,815,000pa quoted in the last accounts to something more like ?500,000. This change wont be fully reflected in the upcoming accounts as they'll be up to July 2008 just before rates started plummeting and in fact it wont filter through entirely into the current set but nonetheless the actual burden of debt is as low as it has been for a long time. Whether this proves that Vlad, the football club owner, was wise to go for variable rates or Vlad, the bank owner, was foolish is up to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambojim52 Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 I would not read to much into the Rangers FC comment mate I was merely mimicking the knuckle draggers amongst us. All I am saying is we needed the money mate I don't think that fact is up for debate to be honest. We have had to defer bonus payments that the players are due. Fair doos. As I stated I think they thought they would sell Kingston and yes the sale of Berra was a nescesity but only because Kingstonn did not get an offer. Another post has brought another thought, The debt is coming down and we have a perferential rate from Ukio. With the current financial climate do you think Hbos would allow high debt without calling in the receivers? If nothing else VR's bank has saved us from that at least. Pieman had no plan B after muddy field and administration IMHO was a certainty. Now with the world recession VR is our only ( and best ) option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maroon tinted glasses 2 Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 Before romanov came we had been heading to murrayfield and by 2009 we would still have been in some degree of debt but with the heart and soul ripped out from under our feet, The fans would have dwindled and the atmosphere would have been shocking. During the european games even though we had 30k+ the place still sounded hollow. Romanov saved our club and yes its been like sitting on a rollercoaster made from jelly at times BUT hearts and the SPL have been better off since he arrived. I can honestly say i am not a fan of his BUT i am realistic enough to see HMFC would have been screwed without him. He has also kept the population of our capital city bouyant!! Can you imagine what the suicide rate over at the noutramp would be had they not been able to cling to the faint hope that every friday for the last three years we have been going into administration. Lets just hope the accounts show what we have all been adding up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 Cripes, here's me agreeing with Therapist and Pickybum. Don't worry lads, I won't be adding "FC" to the back of the dastardly hun just yet. Or at least if you do the letters wont be standing for "Football" and "Club" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 By the way if Debt is at the same nominal level as the end of the Pieman era then not only is it cheaper to service it will also represent about 250% of turnover as opposed to 300%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambomo Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 I can't believe how over-excited everyones getting about a debt figure we don't even know yet. Wait for the accounts then decide if Romanov has done a good job this past year or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 'They' being the sound engineers at Murrayfield - or maybe I'm a secret Hobo who's once again been caught out by the amateur detective work of the KB posse! Your earlier points were valid in that Hearts were managed badly however you have to admit VR has got good milage out of that one. How long will VR bask in the praise of Hearts fans remains to be seen. The football should mean more to people. Hearts had a go at trying to qualify for the CL however VR didn't put his money where his mouth was when it came to the crunch (two metaphors for the price of one there). We were in the CL, regardless of the music played..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Independence Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 Before romanov came we had been heading to murrayfield and by 2009 we would still have been in some degree of debt but with the heart and soul ripped out from under our feet, The fans would have dwindled and the atmosphere would have been shocking. During the european games even though we had 30k+ the place still sounded hollow. Romanov saved our club and yes its been like sitting on a rollercoaster made from jelly at times BUT hearts and the SPL have been better off since he arrived. I can honestly say i am not a fan of his BUT i am realistic enough to see HMFC would have been screwed without him. He has also kept the population of our capital city bouyant!! Can you imagine what the suicide rate over at the noutramp would be had they not been able to cling to the faint hope that every friday for the last three years we have been going into administration. Lets just hope the accounts show what we have all been adding up! Agree! We also would not have won the Scottish Cup and ended second in the league in the same season followed by 35000 crowds+ to watch us at home in Europe, clearly showing the huge potential Hearts have!!! He has made many mistakes but he is not leaving and that can only be for the good, if only because I have not heard of anyone else taking an interest!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.T.F.Robertson Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 Before romanov came we had been heading to murrayfield and by 2009 we would still have been in some degree of debt but with the heart and soul ripped out from under our feet, The fans would have dwindled and the atmosphere would have been shocking. During the european games even though we had 30k+ the place still sounded hollow. Romanov saved our club and yes its been like sitting on a rollercoaster made from jelly at times BUT hearts and the SPL have been better off since he arrived. I can honestly say i am not a fan of his BUT i am realistic enough to see HMFC would have been screwed without him. He has also kept the population of our capital city bouyant!! Can you imagine what the suicide rate over at the noutramp would be had they not been able to cling to the faint hope that every friday for the last three yea)rs we have been going into administration. Lets just hope the accounts show what we have all been adding up! I'm in complete agreement there and with almost everything else you say. (the merits of a buoyant population, excepted ) I have one huge concern though and that's a lingering suspicion, Hearts' success, on the footballing side, does not quite rank as #1 on his priority list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Chat Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 He has also kept the population of our capital city bouyant!! Can you imagine what the suicide rate over at the noutramp would be had they not been able to cling to the faint hope that every friday for the last three years we have been going into administration. Outstanding Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboAl Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 I can't believe how over-excited everyones getting about a debt figure we don't even know yet. Wait for the accounts then decide if Romanov has done a good job this past year or not. I agree we are getting a little over-excited and even when the accounts are available it would be wise not to take the figures at face value. Read the Appendices and Explanations etc before coming to a conclusion and bear in mind that, even as a shareholder attending the AGM, you still may not get a satisfactory/complete explanation of certain figures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.J Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 Or at least if you do the letters wont be standing for "Football" and "Club" Chortle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gizmo Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 Right the only way to get an acurate figure of our debt, is to ask sir gay on wearetheweeteamandalwayswillbe.net Anyone registered over there please ask, as he will know the exact figure.:108years: Someone had best post this number on financialaccountants.net for when our reduced debt is reported: 08457 90 90 90* Sir Gay will need it! *it's the Samaritans hotline! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groot Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 Can I ask why certain vocal posters on this thread weren't available for comment after our impressive defeat of Aberdeen on Saturday? Just curious FWIW I think debt will be in the region of ?22-24m, still large but with the debt being with UKIO/UBIG we will t least have the luxury of paying off over time rather than being forced by desperate UK banks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamboinparis Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 FWIW I think debt will be in the region of ?22-24m, still large but with the debt being with UKIO/UBIG we will t least have the luxury of paying off over time rather than being forced by desperate UK banks. Key point well made. Can you imagine if the debt was still at HBOS? Look at the stress they managed to cause Rangers. Would have been 10x worse for us. Romanov has done a lot for the club I feel, but he has made some mistakes and seemingly strange decisions. But we ARENT in the same position when Pieman was here. Tynecastles future is secure and we have another trophy in the cabinet. Plus it was lovely gettin it up the Huns when we split the OF. Celtic **** themselves I little bit as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 You belittle the team's achievements by thanking VR for a cup. Pathetic. I don't think I did thank Vlad. After all it would be pathetic to do so after a whole 8 years of agony and humiliation since our last cup win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djg001 Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 i wonder what the debt would be now without the likes of Belija, Pinilla, Makela, tall you might even add mccann to the list of expensive players who didn't contribute much (i say 'much' cos tall was ok, but the rest..) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboSean Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 Debt levels are around the same as Vlad came in and we're still at Tynecastle, we've won the Scottish Cup, finished second in league, seen players like Jankauskas, Skacel and Fysass, yet some of you are unhappy? Get a ****ing grip of yourselves. Any other club outside the Old Firm would have killed to have the rollercoaster we've had under Vlad considering our circumstances. Ungrateful doesn't even come close to it, petty and down right ignorance does. Vlad taking us over is the best thing that realisticly could have happened to us. If you don't believe that, and to coin a phrase from the Vermin, your head is in the sand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konrad von Carstein Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 Debt levels are around the same as Vlad came in and we're still at Tynecastle, we've won the Scottish Cup, finished second in league, seen players like Jankauskas, Skacel and Fysass, yet some of you are unhappy? Get a ****ing grip of yourselves. Any other club outside the Old Firm would have killed to have the rollercoaster we've had under Vlad considering our circumstances. Ungrateful doesn't even come close to it, petty and down right ignorance does. Vlad taking us over is the best thing that realisticly could have happened to us. If you don't believe that, and to coin a phrase from the Vermin, your head is in the sand. What he said.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.J Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Debt levels are around the same as Vlad came in and we're still at Tynecastle, we've won the Scottish Cup, finished second in league, seen players like Jankauskas, Skacel and Fysass, yet some of you are unhappy? Get a ****ing grip of yourselves. Any other club outside the Old Firm would have killed to have the rollercoaster we've had under Vlad considering our circumstances. Ungrateful doesn't even come close to it, petty and down right ignorance does. Vlad taking us over is the best thing that realisticly could have happened to us. If you don't believe that, and to coin a phrase from the Vermin, your head is in the sand. Agreed. It must be s***e for those who're only happy when it rains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jam Tarts 1874 Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Can I ask why certain vocal posters on this thread weren't available for comment after our impressive defeat of Aberdeen on Saturday? Just curious FWIW I think debt will be in the region of ?22-24m, still large but with the debt being with UKIO/UBIG we will t least have the luxury of paying off over time rather than being forced by desperate UK banks. Not necessarily. The loans that we still have from UBIG are due to be paid back in full in February 2010. There is no guarantee that these loans will simply be re-written or that another debt to equity transaction will take place. Romanov still has other shareholders at UBIG and UKIO Bankas to answer to, so nothing is definite. Therefore I hope that until February 2010 Hearts continue to cut back on wages etc so that HMFC can enter into any negotiations from a position of some strength. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
$ilvery_Moon Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Where are all the Lochend fuds in this thread telling us of our impending doom? Debt levels are around the same as Vlad came in and we're still at Tynecastle, we've won the Scottish Cup, finished second in league, seen players like Jankauskas, Skacel and Fysass, yet some of you are unhappy? Get a ****ing grip of yourselves. Any other club outside the Old Firm would have killed to have the rollercoaster we've had under Vlad considering our circumstances. Ungrateful doesn't even come close to it, petty and down right ignorance does. Vlad taking us over is the best thing that realisticly could have happened to us. If you don't believe that, and to coin a phrase from the Vermin, your head is in the sand. Bang on the money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coco Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Can I ask why certain vocal posters on this thread weren't available for comment after our impressive defeat of Aberdeen on Saturday? Just curious FWIW I think debt will be in the region of ?22-24m, still large but with the debt being with UKIO/UBIG we will t least have the luxury of paying off over time rather than being forced by desperate UK banks. The economic situation in Lithuania is worse than in the UK at the moment. Ukio Bankas might not be in any position to provide 'luxury' banking services to anyone. Anyway, a positive interview with Campbell Ogilvie. If the debt figure is down to the ?20-24m level it suggests that the operating losses are being driven down. That's a very good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PTBCAL Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 I am hoping it will be less than ?20m. This time next year hopefully we will be talking around ?14m. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coco Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 I am hoping it will be less than ?20m. This time next year hopefully we will be talking around ?14m. Do you think the club is breaking even on an operating basis this year? Or that we will sell more players before July? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PTBCAL Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Do you think the club is breaking even on an operating basis this year? Or that we will sell more players before July? No. We will be selling players to reduce the debt. However I hope the wages to turnover figure will be more realistic i.e 70% ish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bighalders Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Apparently, writing ?12million of the debt, has nothing to do with his running of the club either - you couldn't make it up So Romanov adds a whopping ?17M to our debt, pays off ?12M of it and we should be grateful........let me think about it.......let me do the maths for you........hmmmmmmm............nah, he has still made us worse off, we shook hands with the devil the day we got on board with Mad Vlad, and we are going to regret it, feel free to double check the maths but making us ?5M worse off AFTER reducing the debt by ?12M is bad management at best Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest casper Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 I am hoping it will be less than ?20m. This time next year hopefully we will be talking around ?14m. Hopefully he is preparing the club for sale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bighalders Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Debt levels are around the same as Vlad came in and we're still at Tynecastle, we've won the Scottish Cup, finished second in league, seen players like Jankauskas, Skacel and Fysass, yet some of you are unhappy? Get a ****ing grip of yourselves. Any other club outside the Old Firm would have killed to have the rollercoaster we've had under Vlad considering our circumstances. Ungrateful doesn't even come close to it, petty and down right ignorance does. Vlad taking us over is the best thing that realisticly could have happened to us. If you don't believe that, and to coin a phrase from the Vermin, your head is in the sand. Sorry to p!$$ on your parade but the debt that Vlad added to our debt has to be paid back, we got loans from his bank to cover his debt that he acrrued that Hearts pay interest on!!! Great that eh, he accrues the debt and Hearts pay him the interest thats great for Hearts just great ps could Hearts borrow about ?10M off you to pay back Vlads bank by February next year, cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rees1874 Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Did we get any money from the velicka transfer? If so you could add another million to the transfer sales list. If not then my post is pointless :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMA MAROON Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 The debt is not ours. Vlad bought the club, the debt is his. He owes himself a couple of quid. He'll cope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest casper Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 The debt is not ours. Vlad bought the club, the debt is his. He owes himself a couple of quid. He'll cope. Thanks for the info Roman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JamboRobbo Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 The debt is not ours. Vlad bought the club, the debt is his. He owes himself a couple of quid. He'll cope. Indeed. And of course, the new stand will be up soon, which will be a major plus also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambojim52 Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Your sarcasm seems to have back fired. http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/sport/Delay-over-new-stand-means.4986059.jp , Ogilvie said he could not give an exact date ? but insisted the ?51 million project would go ahead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Sorry to p!$$ on your parade but the debt that Vlad added to our debt has to be paid back, we got loans from his bank to cover his debt that he acrrued that Hearts pay interest on!!! Great that eh, he accrues the debt and Hearts pay him the interest thats great for Hearts just great ps could Hearts borrow about ?10M off you to pay back Vlads bank by February next year, cheers Er, you are forgetting the debt to equity swaps, which effectively write off that part of the debt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groot Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Your sarcasm seems to have back fired. http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/sport/Delay-over-new-stand-means.4986059.jp , Ogilvie said he could not give an exact date ? but insisted the ?51 million project would go ahead. I liked this comment underneath the article Perhaps they could also ask Hibs when they will be building their new stand. They already have planing permission unlike Hearts, which will run out if they don't start work. Now that labour and materials costs are down, plus the fact that Hibs fans arent going to games any more so loss of gate money would be minimal, it would seem the perfect time to build that stand. Could Hibs be in financial difficulties? I think we should be told... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JamboRobbo Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Your sarcasm seems to have back fired. woosh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bighalders Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Er, you are forgetting the debt to equity swaps, which effectively write off that part of the debt. Nope, i think you'll find Hearts are still in debt via loans to Vlads bank, a debt that needs repaid by February 2010. WE've already done the debt for equity bit, but because we now have so much debt thanks to Vlad we still have a few quid to pay to Ukio Bank by February 2010 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brellierlegend Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Does anyone know how close we are to becoming self sufficient? We have and will clear a lot of big earners off the wage bill by the summer so that should help. However, attendances have dropped slightly and we still have to service the debt with monthly interest payments aswell as paying wages and other costs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboAl Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Does anyone know how close we are to becoming self sufficient?We have and will clear a lot of big earners off the wage bill by the summer so that should help. However, attendances have dropped slightly and we still have to service the debt with monthly interest payments aswell as paying wages and other costs. The accounts to 31/07/08 are due to be published soon and should give a guide to progress in the right direction. Self sufficiency, I guess, is a bit further down the line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Nope, i think you'll find Hearts are still in debt via loans to Vlads bank, a debt that needs repaid by February 2010. WE've already done the debt for equity bit, but because we now have so much debt thanks to Vlad we still have a few quid to pay to Ukio Bank by February 2010 Hold on! I never said we didn't own UBIG or Ukio money. I was saying that a significant amount of the "excess" debt you mentioned has been written off from the swap. What are you also forgetting as well is if we "default" on the debt due in 2010 then the problem is UBIG's as the majority shareholder. Such are the joys of an "internal" debt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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