Dazo Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 i had said 8-9% but now realise that it was actually 13% IIRC. the point is.... it's still a great gesture because he didn't get ?12M worth of shares. He was playing footy manager and it cost him big time. Do you seriously expect anyone else except to pay for his mistakes ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PresidentRomanov Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 You seem to be forgetting everything that got us to the debt level in the first place and only judging him on what he has done to get it down. If you want to use selective time scales then I can happily admit since he nearly double our debt he has got it back down to a unmanageable level again. Well done VR you are sir indeed a genius. Improved our team compared to when ? Seriously I would love to know the time span you are using to make that comparison. I'll ask again, would you say he's currently doing a good job of undoing the mistakes he's made, or are you not big enough to put the past behind you? Frankly you're coming across like a mentally challenged spoiled child. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PresidentRomanov Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 He was playing footy manager and it cost him big time. Do you seriously expect anyone else except to pay for his mistakes ? Plenty other owners have done the same thing, not many bale their clubs out afterwards though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Winstone Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 I would give a rough estimate of ?25million for what the debt will be sitting at after the new information is released. Back to square one then as far as the finances go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie Masterton Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 The debt only counts as "running the club" when it goes up. :o There are some right space cadets amongst our support. he he, and you've just found that out, or have you known for a while? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackhallJambo Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 I think we need to accept that a lot of the decisions made by VR are for tax avoidance purposes than necessarily for the betterment of HMFC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazo Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 I'll ask again, would you say he's currently doing a good job of undoing the mistakes he's made, or are you not big enough to put the past behind you? Frankly you're coming across like a mentally challenged spoiled child. Shame you had to resort to name calling I thought we were doing well. The past is well and truly behind me but never forgotten. I am judging the man over his entire spell so far but if you only want to judge him on the past year or so then crack on. Has he done well to undo his mistakes, then obviously yes he has. That was not what you asked earlier though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazo Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 Plenty other owners have done the same thing, not many bale their clubs out afterwards though. I would like to see that list of owners who have done the same thing at their clubs that VR has done at hearts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambojim52 Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 Right the only way to get an acurate figure of our debt, is to ask sir gay on wearetheweeteamandalwayswillbe.net Anyone registered over there please ask, as he will know the exact figure.:108years: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 He was playing footy manager and it cost him big time. Do you seriously expect anyone else except to pay for his mistakes ? i don't think anyone expects someone else to pay for his mistakes. there is a case to be made for the argument that the ?12M forgiveness of debt simply makes up for ?12M worth of debt that was needlessly racked up..... but it's still being done. in effect that's ?12M worth of outgoings that has come out of someone else's pocket other than hearts. a lot of money has been wasted but a return to debt figures pre-romanov is in fact a step forward because the financial outlook pre-romanov was a lot bleaker than it is today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PresidentRomanov Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 Shame you had to resort to name calling I thought we were doing well. The past is well and truly behind me but never forgotten. I am judging the man over his entire spell so far but if you only want to judge him on the past year or so then crack on. Has he done well to undo his mistakes, then obviously yes he has. That was not what you asked earlier though. I didn't call you any name, I merely pointed out what you were coming across as. And my first post, was "So to sum up, Mr Romanov is now doing a fine job?" so that's exactly what I asked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambojim52 Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 I would like to see that list of owners who have done the same thing at their clubs that VR has done at hearts. David Murray? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Gosling Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 I would like to see that list of owners who have done the same thing at their clubs that VR has done at hearts. Fergus McCann and David Murray. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboAl Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 I think we need to accept that a lot of the decisions made by VR are for tax avoidance purposes than necessarily for the betterment of HMFC I wonder if you could explain these to us - assuming of course your view is not speculative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazo Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 Fergus McCann and David Murray. You think they have run their clubs the same way as VR ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambojim52 Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 Most seem to agree the debt will be down to the pre Romanov era, concidering that amount of debt, and the sale of Tynie for flats, I think VR has done well to rectify his mistakes. After all the debt is now costing us less than it was under Pieman and we stayed at home and won the SC. A hearty well done seems to be in order. Just hope he doesn't come out with some bizare statement about icebergs melting in the sahara. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rods Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 anything under 20 mill would be good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambos are go! Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 If VR leaves this club with a vastly reduced debt and a Scottish Cup and CL place achieved it would be churlish,stupid and rude not to be very grateful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambojim52 Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 You think they have run their clubs the same way as VR ? No not in exactly the same way, but both have run up huge debts ( even if the weegie media won't print it) And Murray wants rid of the albatross round his neck and can't. Vr at least hasn't come out and said he wants to sell and told the world they MUST sell the league's top goal scorer or there will be trouble ahead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Stinkfinger Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 i don't think anyone expects someone else to pay for his mistakes. there is a case to be made for the argument that the ?12M forgiveness of debt simply makes up for ?12M worth of debt that was needlessly racked up..... but it's still being done. in effect that's ?12M worth of outgoings that has come out of someone else's pocket other than hearts. a lot of money has been wasted but a return to debt figures pre-romanov is in fact a step forward because the financial outlook pre-romanov was a lot bleaker than it is today. How did a trolley collector for Tesco gain such knowledge in high finance ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazo Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 No not in exactly the same way, but both have run up huge debts ( even if the weegie media won't print it) And Murray wants rid of the albatross round his neck and can't. Vr at least hasn't come out and said he wants to sell and told the world they MUST sell the league's top goal scorer or there will be trouble ahead. The difference being of course we did sell our prized asset and they didn't. Regardless of what the papers print I think that speaks volumes about who needed the money the most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 How did a trolley collector for Tesco gain such knowledge in high finance ? chortle. they don't let me handle the trolley collecting yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambojim52 Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 The difference being of course we did sell our prized asset and they didn't. Regardless of what the papers print I think that speaks volumes about who needed the money the most. Clasic mistake Big D, They were desperate to sell and I think Boyd refused to go simply to stuff it up them. He has been very vocal about not getting a game ,for both Rangers and Scotland and he turned down the move to stick it up Murray for wanting rid of him. He has a cushy number and doesn't need the cash and know Rangers were desperate for his sale money. Hearts however felt sure they would sell Kingston and when that didn't happen they had to sell Berra, who I think they would have kept had the Kingston deal materialised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazo Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 Clasic mistake Big D, They were desperate to sell and I think Boyd refused to go simply to stuff it up them. He has been very vocal about not getting a game ,for both Rangers and Scotland and he turned down the move to stick it up Murray for wanting rid of him. He has a cushy number and doesn't need the cash and know Rangers were desperate for his sale money. Hearts however felt sure they would sell Kingston and when that didn't happen they had to sell Berra, who I think they would have kept had the Kingston deal materialised. To be honest mate the financial affairs of Rangers FC do not interest me in the slightest. The fact we had to sell a player, wages not getting paid suggest the club is not being run aswell as it could be. That takes nothing away from the steps made to correct the shockingly high debt level we reached. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deevers Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 The difference being of course we did sell our prized asset and they didn't. Regardless of what the papers print I think that speaks volumes about who needed the money the most. All prize assets eventually go from every club here. We got top dollar for ours. Whether anyone likes it or not we are in the position of having to be a trading club in order to make our finances work. Just be glad that things are starting to look a good bit better after the bleak couple of years we've had on that front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Fabuloso Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 If VR leaves this club with a vastly reduced debt and a Scottish Cup and CL place achieved it would be churlish,stupid and rude not to be very grateful. We didn't achieve a CL place unfortunately. As for the SC we did this a few years before anyone had ever heard of VR - and we beat Rangers in the final. Our run in 06 was relatively straightforward so let's not give Mad Vlad too much credit. He did his best to mess that up too - it almost worked. Sooner people come to terms with what Vlad is, the better. Some fans are just naive. That's being kind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambojim52 Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 To be honest mate the financial affairs of Rangers FC do not interest me in the slightest. The fact we had to sell a player, wages not getting paid suggest the club is not being run aswell as it could be. That takes nothing away from the steps made to correct the shockingly high debt level we reached. The fact you call them Rangers FC suggests you are indeed more interested than you claim, However to asnswer your point about wages not being paid, The system at the time was a weekly wage supplied by Ukio from another country. This alone is fraut with danger and mistakes and delays are inevitable. I am not saying this was the case, but since the monthly wage system has been introduced things have been much smoother. The other thing was the press made more of the issue than was stricktly true as ussual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboAl Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 We didn't achieve a CL place unfortunately. As for the SC we did this a few years before anyone had ever heard of VR - and we beat Rangers in the final. Our run in 06 was relatively straightforward so let's not give Mad Vlad too much credit. He did his best to mess that up too - it almost worked. Sooner people come to terms with what Vlad is, the better. Some fans are just naive. That's being kind. I think it is unfair on your team whom we beat 4-0 in the semi to suggest it was relatively straightforward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Fabuloso Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 I think it is unfair on your team whom we beat 4-0 in the semi to suggest it was relatively straightforward. You give Hibs too much credit IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazo Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 The fact you call them Rangers FC suggests you are indeed more interested than you claim, However to asnswer your point about wages not being paid, The system at the time was a weekly wage supplied by Ukio from another country. This alone is fraut with danger and mistakes and delays are inevitable.I am not saying this was the case, but since the monthly wage system has been introduced things have been much smoother. The other thing was the press made more of the issue than was stricktly true as ussual. I would not read to much into the Rangers FC comment mate I was merely mimicking the knuckle draggers amongst us. All I am saying is we needed the money mate I don't think that fact is up for debate to be honest. We have had to defer bonus payments that the players are due. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Gosling Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 98 run - Clydebank, Albion Rovers, Ayr United (all at home), Falkirk, Rangers 2006 run - Kilmarnock, Aberdeen, Partick (all at home), Hibernian, Gretna Aye, much more straightforward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PresidentRomanov Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 I think it is unfair on your team whom we beat 4-0 in the semi to suggest it was relatively straightforward. I don't know Al, he may have a point here :108years: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboAl Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 I don't know Al, he may have a point here :108years: I agree but it's still unfair to say it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Brightside Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 I think it is unfair on your team whom we beat 4-0 in the semi to suggest it was relatively straightforward. Our run in 1998 was even more straightforward. IIRC no SPL opposition until the final. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Fabuloso Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 98 run - Clydebank, Albion Rovers, Ayr United (all at home), Falkirk, Rangers 2006 run - Kilmarnock, Aberdeen, Partick (all at home), Hibernian, Gretna Aye, much more straightforward. I'd take the 2nd set of fixtures any day given no OF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teuchterjambo Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 If the debt is back to around ?20m, it is less than it was when the Pieman left us and you have to say that mad Vlad has done a good jobn - especially given how hard he has made it for himself at times! So taking the debt from approx 20 million to approx 36 million and then 3 years later getting it back to approx 20 million is doing a good job ? That is some school of economics you went to ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Fabuloso Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 Our run in 1998 was even more straightforward. IIRC no SPL opposition until the final. Given our record vs OF teams in cups I'd say 06 was the most likely chance of success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PresidentRomanov Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 I'd take the 2nd set of fixtures any day given no OF. Your team beat Celtic in the final when they last won it, so at least they can be beaten Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Fabuloso Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 Your team beat Celtic in the final when they last won it, so at least they can be beaten That's right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PresidentRomanov Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 So taking the debt from approx 20 million to approx 36 million and then 3 years later getting it back to approx 20 million is doing a good job ? That is some school of economics you went to ! I would say, taking the debt from approx ?36million, down to approx ?20million in the last year, is doing a quite incredible job, especially these days. Mr Romanov has been slaughtered for the bad things he's done, are you all too blinkered now to see what's happening now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PresidentRomanov Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 That's right. You've got me fooled :108years: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Fabuloso Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 Your team beat Celtic in the final when they last won it, so at least they can be beaten I suppose beating Rangers in the final did take a shine off the experience for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 By selling all our best players to get us back to where the pieman left us ? We are rapidly running out of players to sell for decent money. What next ? Or by investing in a big money contract for Gordon without which he would have gone to one of the OF for diddly squat (as in pre-Vlad times)? And we sold all of one of our best players during the January "fire sale". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simey Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 We stil have the usual suspects unhappy that Hearts won on Saturday and have tied up a fantastic commercial deal, maybe they are the ones that wanted to go to Muddyfield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambos are go! Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 We didn't achieve a CL place unfortunately. As for the SC we did this a few years before anyone had ever heard of VR - and we beat Rangers in the final. Our run in 06 was relatively straightforward so let's not give Mad Vlad too much credit. He did his best to mess that up too - it almost worked. Sooner people come to terms with what Vlad is, the better. Some fans are just naive. That's being kind. Leaving semantics aside whether or not we achieved the group stages we did qualify for the initial stages of the CL. In 1998 we did not play an SPL team till the Final IIRC. That was the precursor to a huge increase in the club debt that still accounts for the large majority of our indebtedness since and threatened our Tynecastle home. Thats being kind of factual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitch41 Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 Save your cyber-breath PB. Mr Romanov saved Heart of Midlothian FC, kept us at Tynecastle, won us the Scottish Cup and got us into the Champions League but they still won't give him an ounce of thanks. true he kept us at tynie, we did well the season we won the cup and qualified for europe but he had already started to mismanage the team to the extent the team became a shambles, the players were messed about, he paid over the odds for rubbish players and he lost the trust in the vast majority of hearts fans. romanov has shown he's incompetent when it comes to signing players and appointing managers and i believe it's only down to luck that we now have a manager who is up to the job. romanov has done some good things but he has made too many mistakes, told too many lies, and shown contempt for the fans. most of the fans will find it very hard to ever trust him again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Fabuloso Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 Or by investing in a big money contract for Gordon without which he would have gone to one of the OF for diddly squat (as in pre-Vlad times)? And we sold all of one of our best players during the January "fire sale". Mad Vlad saw you comin'. You should write him a letter thanking him for his contribution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 We didn't achieve a CL place unfortunately. As for the SC we did this a few years before anyone had ever heard of VR - and we beat Rangers in the final. Our run in 06 was relatively straightforward so let's not give Mad Vlad too much credit. He did his best to mess that up too - it almost worked. Sooner people come to terms with what Vlad is, the better. Some fans are just naive. That's being kind. Even on the Hibs definition of a CL place we got within one winnable tie of a "CL proper" place. And in '06 we beat three top six SPL sides to reach the final. Last year Rangers beat one (the greatest Scottish Cup losers) after a replay. It annoys me when Hearts fans belittle Hearts achievements this way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 Mad Vlad saw you comin'. You should write him a letter thanking him for his contribution. That's right. It's best you avoid the point, really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PresidentRomanov Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 true he kept us at tynie, we did well the season we won the cup and qualified for europe but he had already started to mismanage the team to the extent the team became a shambles, the players were messed about, he paid over the odds for rubbish players and he lost the trust in the vast majority of hearts fans. romanov has shown he's incompetent when it comes to signing players and appointing managers and i believe it's only down to luck that we now have a manager who is up to the job. romanov has done some good things but he has made too many mistakes, told too many lies, and shown contempt for the fans. most of the fans will find it very hard to ever trust him again. Oh no, It's Scary Mitch Would you say Mr Romanov is doing a good job at the present moment in time? I know this won't happen, but could you try and answer without bringing up everything that's happened in the past Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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