EDUCATE YOUNG LADS FROM YESTERDAY

[Guest jambomickey]

Is this you trying to act hard, Mick? Point and cringe.

 

Regardless of what was sung (and I was about ten feet to the left of them on Saturday), they aren't "Rangers songs" any more than they're Hearts songs. People on here have often accused me of being blinded by Old Firm bigotry, Mick, but if you've reached a stage where you think that anything sympathetic to the Union belongs to Rangers then I think that you've been far more affected than I have, Mick.

 

no not at all mate! you taking me completley wrong way, i'm totally against hearts fans arguing with each other mate, i'm talking about a friendly chat

[Guest Dipped Flake]

You haven't in any way, shape or form replied to the point that I was making, Mick. If you're saying that, because they sing these songs or have these views, they should support Rangers, that is in itself bigoted, Mick.

 

There is 1 club in Scotland that promotes hatred of catholics and support of Protestant paramilitaries, at least their fans do and the club itself is happy to take their money. That club is rangers (or Rangers FC for our mini huns). Any fan singing these types of songs is better suited supporting rangers.

[Guest S.U.S.S.]

Throwing hot drinks at kids and calling it education.

 

Very good.

[Makween]

There is 1 club in Scotland that promotes hatred of catholics and support of Protestant paramilitaries, at least their fans do and the club itself is happy to take their money. That club is rangers (or Rangers FC for our mini huns). Any fan singing these types of songs is better suited supporting rangers.

 

What a load of nonsense. Some Rangers fans sing these songs, so do some Hearts fans. To say that, because of their views, they should support Rangers is very bigoted.

 

no not at all mate! you taking me completley wrong way, i'm totally against hearts fans arguing with each other mate, i'm talking about a friendly chat

 

Hopefully not over a cup of coffee, Mick.

[Miller Jambo 60]

tell you what you sit beside me at next away game and we'll have this conversation when it starts up?

 

Well the Inverness game on sat will be just dandy.

Section N will sit during the game and not utter a word,and any low life:eek:

with that terrible union jack will be hanged from the wheatfield stand with no trial.

There will be no pies as they are bad for you and we dont want the press picking up on that one.

We will all sing flower of scotland prior to the start to satisfy the large scottish following.

And finally no hearts scarfs to be worn as they might upset the Inverness fans.:laugh:

[Guest jambomickey]

What a load of nonsense. Some Rangers fans sing these songs, so do some Hearts fans. To say that, because of their views, they should support Rangers is very bigoted.

 

 

 

Hopefully not over a cup of coffee, Mick.

 

that was out of order and whoever threw that coffee should take a good look at themselves

[Makween]

VOTE DOUG. MA HA.

[Guest jambomickey]

Well the Inverness game on sat will be just dandy.

Section N will sit during the game and not utter a word,and any low life:eek:

with that terrible union jack will be hanged from the wheatfield stand with no trial.

There will be no pies as they are bad for you and we dont want the press picking up on that one.

We will all sing flower of scotland prior to the start to satisfy the large scottish following.

And finally no hearts scarfs to be worn as they might upset the Inverness fans.:laugh:

 

good mate!

[leginten]

...but if you've reached a stage where you think that anything sympathetic to the Union belongs to Rangers then I think that you've been far more affected than I have, Mick.

 

Sympathetic to the Union. That's an interesting phrase. For what it's worth, I would suggest that the vast majority of those who are sympathetic to the Union would be disgusted by virtually everything that was sung on Saturday. But then, they're probably quite normal people whose world is untouched by the need to sing songs about the Pope, the IRA, Bobby Sands and Proddy housing schemes.

[speedbump]

Throwing hot drinks at kids and calling it education.

 

Very good.

 

A valid point.

[Makween]

Sympathetic to the Union. That's an interesting phrase. For what it's worth, I would suggest that the vast majority of those who are sympathetic to the Union would be disgusted by virtually everything that was sung on Saturday. But then, they're probably quite normal people whose world is untouched by the need to sing songs about the Pope, the IRA, Bobby Sands and Proddy housing schemes.

 

"Sympathetic to the Union" wasn't the greatest way of phrasing it, but I couldn't think of any other way to put it.

 

Either way, the point remains that to automatically assume that anyone holding the views that you've expressed must be a Rangers fan or should support Rangers is undeniably just as bigoted as most of the songs that were actually sung.

 

Also - and I'm not saying that this makes it okay, before anyone draws that inference - songs such as these have been sung by a section of the Hearts support for decades now. To suggest that it's suddenly become a phenomenon applying only to Rangers is basically just a bit of a copout. It's easy to discredit people when you can make sweeping generalisations like that one.

[leginten]

"Sympathetic to the Union" wasn't the greatest way of phrasing it, but I couldn't think of any other way to put it.

 

Either way, the point remains that to automatically assume that anyone holding the views that you've expressed must be a Rangers fan or should support Rangers is undeniably just as bigoted as most of the songs that were actually sung.

 

Also - and I'm not saying that this makes it okay, before anyone draws that inference - songs such as these have been sung by a section of the Hearts support for decades now. To suggest that it's suddenly become a phenomenon applying only to Rangers is basically just a bit of a copout. It's easy to discredit people when you can make sweeping generalisations like that one.

 

The point I was trying to make is that I don't really see how any of these songs can be construed as "sympathetic to the Union". I think most Unionists would find them abhorrent. Do you disagree?

[Diego10]

They're no exactly topical. Bobby Sands died in 1981 ffs. a good 10 years minimum before most of these folk were even born. I'll bet they're well clued up on the IRA hunger strikers and their reasons.

[Makween]

The point I was trying to make is that I don't really see how any of these songs can be construed as "sympathetic to the Union". I think most Unionists would find them abhorrent. Do you disagree?

 

I've answered your point. I said that "sympathetic to the Union" wasn't the best way of phrasing it - although it does apply to some of the songs that were sung. We can use whatever terms you want to describe the songs - it doesn't alter the point that I'm making, which you know fine well and which is why you're trying to drown it in a sea of semantics

[KERRY]

Let's try and clear this up. I asked a Stewarding Supervisor at half time why these

supporters were being ejected. His response was that a number of complaints had been

made by Hearts fans in the upper tier about the songs being sung in the lower section,

and consequently these supporters were removed. It is not a criminal offence to sing

'those' songs. Rangers fans sing them home and away and no-one gets thrown out,

because no-one complains! So, our own supporters were responsible for the removal of

some of their own fans. - Fantastic. Did the idiot who threw a hot drink in their direction (probably a criminal offence) get charged? I doubt it, and he is the one who

should be getting the abuse on this thread, and not the 'kids' who follow their team all

over the country.

[speedbump]

They're no exactly topical. Bobby Sands died in 1981 ffs. a good 10 years minimum before most of these folk were even born. I'll bet they're well clued up on the IRA hunger strikers and their reasons.

 

Ah Mr Sands, the only one of the hunger strikers who wasn't inside at the time for terrorist offences. He was a common thief!

[Diego10]

Ah Mr Sands, the only one of the hunger strikers who wasn't inside at the time for terrorist offences. He was a common thief!

 

did he not get convicted for possession of firearms?

[speedbump]

did he not get convicted for possession of firearms?

 

Previous conviction.

[Diego10]

Previous conviction.

 

the thiefing or the possession?

[speedbump]

the thiefing or the possession?

 

Possession, if I recall correctly.

[Diego10]

Possession, if I recall correctly.

 

I'm pretty sure he was covicted more than once of possession of weapons. he was doing a 14 year stretch at the time of the hunger strikes, so unless he stole Concorde...

[redjambo]

Previous conviction.

 

He was sentenced to 14 years in 1977 for the possession of firearms - was that sentence commuted somehow?

[speedbump]

OK i didn't recall correctly.

[Jambo83]

Does anyone else think that what happened on Saturday was a bit of a storm in a teacup?

 

I wasn't a part of the group singing the songs, I was just along from them. It was a bit daft of them, as there's no way that you're going to sit as part of a fairly small group singing those songs during a game and not get at the very least chucked out and possibly lifted. When people say that they're not real fans, they're totally wrong - these are guys who follow Hearts all over the country week in, week out, so it's just a copout to say that they're not "real fans", whatever those might be.

 

The "Mini-Hun" thing's a bit cringeworthy too. Whether people on here like it or not, there's been an element of the Hearts support singing these songs for decades, so it's really bit more complicated than that. That's without even mentioning the fact that the supposition that anyone with Unionist sympathies must be a Rangers fan (and vice versa) is in itself much more bigoted than most of the songs that people are getting hot under the collar over.

 

Neither "side" (for want of a better term) really did themselves many favours on Saturday, the people who were booing would've been a lot more easy to take seriously if they'd actually gone down and had a go to the boys' faces (not the younger ones, I suppose).

Ultimately, the infighting didn't do anyone any good. Hopefully it won't become a feature in future away games.

 

You make some decent points, but I disagree with the small part i've highlighted. I don't think confrontation of that sort ever helps these situations, especially if there are innocent bystanders that are intimidated or hurt as a result.

 

I think we all agree that it IS a minority, but one that does need sorted? It's not nice having to hear/read about this kind of thing when we've just won 2-0 away from home. Hearts fans don't help themselves sometimes when it comes to this type of thing, we just bring more unwanted negative vibes to the club we all love & support.

[Acey]

the people who were booing would've been a lot more easy to take seriously if they'd actually gone down and had a go to the boys' faces (not the younger ones, I suppose).

 

Ultimately, the infighting didn't do anyone any good. Hopefully it won't become a feature in future away games.

 

So...wait - you want people to "have a go in [others'] faces", while simultaneously hoping that there's no more "infighting"?

 

[leginten]

I've answered your point. I said that "sympathetic to the Union" wasn't the best way of phrasing it - although it does apply to some of the songs that were sung. We can use whatever terms you want to describe the songs - it doesn't alter the point that I'm making, which you know fine well and which is why you're trying to drown it in a sea of semantics

 

You haven't answered the point at all -you have evaded it. All I'm asking is whether or not you think the majority of the people who are sympathetic to, or in favour of (however you wish to phrase it) the Union would find these songs OK or abhorrent.

Not a difficult question. And not a trace of semantics.

[jambojim52]

OK i didn't recall correctly.

 

Perhaps this might help.

Within six months Bobby was arrested again. There had been a bomb attack on the Balmoral Furniture Company at Dunmurry, followed by a gun-battle in which two men were wounded. Bobby was in a car near the scene with three other young men. The RUC captured them and found a revolver in the car.

The judge admitted there was no evidence to link Bobby, or the other three young men with him, to the bombing. So the four of them were sentenced to fourteen years each for possession of the one revolver.

 

http://larkspirit.com/hungerstrikes/bios/sands.html

[speedbump]

Perhaps this might help.

Within six months Bobby was arrested again. There had been a bomb attack on the Balmoral Furniture Company at Dunmurry, followed by a gun-battle in which two men were wounded. Bobby was in a car near the scene with three other young men. The RUC captured them and found a revolver in the car.

The judge admitted there was no evidence to link Bobby, or the other three young men with him, to the bombing. So the four of them were sentenced to fourteen years each for possession of the one revolver.

 

http://larkspirit.com/hungerstrikes/bios/sands.html

 

Cheers. I try not frequent sites about lowlifes.

[Guest zeeko1]

What has brought about the return of all this sectarian guff at Hearts matches? Or has it always been there? IIRC this sort of stuff raised its head among the Hearts support in the 1970s but has been largely the preserve of Rangers until now?

[jambojim52]

Cheers. I try not frequent sites about lowlifes.

 

Is that what it is? I simply Googled B sands and that's where it took me. There are a few including weikpdia, but it looked the most likley to give the info we wanted.

[MacDonald Jardine]

What has brought about the return of all this sectarian guff at Hearts matches? Or has it always been there? IIRC this sort of stuff raised its head among the Hearts support in the 1970s but has been largely the preserve of Rangers until now?

 

Always been there.

It died off abit from the mid 80s and I thought it would disappear completely a few years ago.

It shows no signs of doing do though.

[speedbump]

Is that what it is? I simply Googled B sands and that's where it took me. There are a few including weikpdia, but it looked the most likley to give the info we wanted.

 

I could have done the same but I couldn't be arsed. He was and always be an enemy of the state and Maggie was right to let him die!

[Kinkster]

I could have done the same but I couldn't be arsed. He was and always be an enemy of the state and Maggie was right to let him die!

 

Hope you didnt get burned by the coffee on Saturday. Maggie indeed.

 

I have to say that I noticed more UJ's than the norm at the San Giro, most of which were held aloft by youngsters. Maybe there is something happening in a wider sense, to accentuate this ?

[speedbump]

Hope you didnt get burned by the coffee on Saturday. Maggie indeed.

 

I have to say that I noticed more UJ's than the norm at the San Giro, most of which were held aloft by youngsters. Maybe there is something happening in a wider sense, to accentuate this ?

 

NO it would have had to have thrown at some rate, I was in the pub:laugh::laugh:

[Only a Game]

Always been there.

It died off abit from the mid 80s and I thought it would disappear completely a few years ago.

It shows no signs of doing do though.

 

It died completely at half time on Saturday when those couple of dozen who wish to keep it living were summarily and quite correctly ejected from the ground

 

Would like to see that repeated, not only at the forthcoming game at Hamilton but some elements in Section N are well over due a coffee break.

[sprinbox98]

http://www.bebo.com/Profile.jsp?MemberId=4171793796&ShowSims=Y

 

Looking at this it should be relativley easy to trace back who the culprits are and do something about it. It seems they enjoyed 'spending time in the cells' so if Hearts want to take it seriously and bar th pond life then start here, get the info from the police and bar these clowns making a mokery of HMFC.

 

It may not eradicate it all, but it certainly would make a start.

[suzie_preston]

Yes let's take section N away and sit in a morgue every home game because unless they sing nobody would bother, it showed on Saturday that apart from the numpties that sang the wrong song's Hearts support has become one of the "only sing when were winning" brigade.

If the rest of the support made an effort you wouldn't be able to hear the few that cause the trouble, so instead of sneaking around Bebo & texting Hearts grass up number etc to report people just drown them out every week with suitable Hearts only song's they will soon get fed up of not being heard & not having numerous threads on here talking about them.

[kaka_22]

http://www.bebo.com/Profile.jsp?MemberId=4171793796&ShowSims=Y

 

Looking at this it should be relativley easy to trace back who the culprits are and do something about it. It seems they enjoyed 'spending time in the cells' so if Hearts want to take it seriously and bar th pond life then start here, get the info from the police and bar these clowns making a mokery of HMFC.

 

It may not eradicate it all, but it certainly would make a start.

 

I've informed the lads of your post, and they would like to thank you for your publicity.

[troonjambo]

http://www.bebo.com/Profile.jsp?MemberId=4171793796&ShowSims=Y

 

Looking at this it should be relativley easy to trace back who the culprits are and do something about it. It seems they enjoyed 'spending time in the cells' so if Hearts want to take it seriously and bar th pond life then start here, get the info from the police and bar these clowns making a mokery of HMFC.

 

It may not eradicate it all, but it certainly would make a start.

 

well i looked what i seen was pictures of guys and girls all of whom i dont know but i can categorically state were none of the guys thrown out on saturday. but in amongst them there were at least 6 faces i see everywhere Inverness, Aberdeen, killie, Hamilton, ibrox ,celtic park ect .

i have never had a beer with them nor do i drink in robbos but these girls and guys are hearts daft card carrying match attending supporters .

and ill repeat none of whom were thrown out on Saturday

 

no disrespect mate but your in new zealand !!!!! i too have lived to far from gorgie to make games in my life, but do you think it is appropriate to be thousands of miles away drawing conclusions on peoples behaviour due to bebo

[speedbump]

I've informed the lads of your post, and they would like to thank you for your publicity.

 

[speedbump]

well i looked what i seen was pictures of guys and girls all of whom i dont know but i can categorically state were none of the guys thrown out on saturday. but in amongst them there were at least 6 faces i see everywhere Inverness, Aberdeen, killie, Hamilton, ibrox ,celtic park ect .

i have never had a beer with them nor do i drink in robbos but these girls and guys are hearts daft card carrying match attending supporters .

and ill repeat none of whom were thrown out on Saturday

 

no disrespect mate but your in new zealand !!!!! i too have lived to far from gorgie to make games in my life, but do you think it is appropriate to be thousands of miles away drawing conclusions on peoples behaviour due to bebo

 

Well said sir, kudos to you!

[Miller Jambo 60]

http://www.bebo.com/Profile.jsp?MemberId=4171793796&ShowSims=Y

 

Looking at this it should be relativley easy to trace back who the culprits are and do something about it. It seems they enjoyed 'spending time in the cells' so if Hearts want to take it seriously and bar th pond life then start here, get the info from the police and bar these clowns making a mokery of HMFC.

 

It may not eradicate it all, but it certainly would make a start.

 

You obviously go to a lot of hearts games , and have witnessed the pond life (AS YOU PUT IT) from your armchair.

The pond life are bigger jambos than you will ever dream to be.

[Diego10]

so am I allowed to sing pro-IRA songs now or not?

[djf]

You obviously go to a lot of hearts games , and have witnessed the pond life (AS YOU PUT IT) from your armchair.

The pond life are bigger jambos than you will ever dream to be.

 

Being a jambo and being a tiresome, uneducated ned are not mutually exclusive Douglas.

[Makween]

You make some decent points, but I disagree with the small part i've highlighted. I don't think confrontation of that sort ever helps these situations, especially if there are innocent bystanders that are intimidated or hurt as a result.

 

I think we all agree that it IS a minority, but one that does need sorted? It's not nice having to hear/read about this kind of thing when we've just won 2-0 away from home. Hearts fans don't help themselves sometimes when it comes to this type of thing, we just bring more unwanted negative vibes to the club we all love & support.

 

I suppose that you've got a point, but when people were booing and singing songs like : "Are you Rangers in disguise?", that was already pretty confrontational.

 

I think that having a chat face to face can be more helpful in a lot of situations, earlier this season my entourage and I were singing songs at Tynecastle that a few guys in front of us took exception to, it all got a bit heated at the time but once the dust had settled we at least respected that they'd said what they had to say to our faces, and we've toned it down a bit since.

 

So...wait - you want people to "have a go in [others'] faces", while simultaneously hoping that there's no more "infighting"?

 

 

No. I don't "want" people to have a go in others' faces, I just said that, in a situation where the infighting's already started, it's easier to take seriously that way.

 

Given that your entire online persona is based on pedantry, you should really pay more attention to these subtle differences, kiddo.

 

You haven't answered the point at all -you have evaded it. All I'm asking is whether or not you think the majority of the people who are sympathetic to, or in favour of (however you wish to phrase it) the Union would find these songs OK or abhorrent.

Not a difficult question. And not a trace of semantics.

 

I'm sorry, I thought that I made my concession of the point perfectly clear by stating that I hadn't phrased myself well with the use of "Unionist sympathies". For the sake of clarity, and to help the hard of thinking, the views expressed in (some of) the songs which were heard on Saturday don't represent the views of everyone with Unionist sympathies. Some which are still lumped in as being "bigoted" for some reason do, though.

 

You've managed to muddy the waters a bit on this one, well done. I fully expect to see you going on about how they're "Rangers fans" in the next thread now, so I guess that it's been a bit of a result for you.

 

Would like to see that repeated, not only at the forthcoming game at Hamilton but some elements in Section N are well over due a coffee break.

 

Do you even go to home games? I can't remember the last time that Section N, or indeed any other part of the ground, was particularly "traditional".

[Miller Jambo 60]

Being a jambo and being a tiresome, uneducated ned are not mutually exclusive Douglas.

 

Douglas, from a kickbacker now thats a first:laugh:

[Ben Dover]

You obviously go to a lot of hearts games , and have witnessed the pond life (AS YOU PUT IT) from your armchair.

The pond life are bigger jambos than you will ever dream to be.

 

But Doug, SOLID JAMBOS or not, they must surely know that singing 'dodgy' songs is a sure fire way of putting THE CLUB first in the Q if the GFA want to hang anyone out to dry

[ToadKiller Dog]

http://www.bebo.com/Profile.jsp?MemberId=4171793796&ShowSims=Y

 

Looking at this it should be relativley easy to trace back who the culprits are and do something about it. It seems they enjoyed 'spending time in the cells' so if Hearts want to take it seriously and bar th pond life then start here, get the info from the police and bar these clowns making a mokery of HMFC.

 

It may not eradicate it all, but it certainly would make a start.

 

I would say reading those lets say misguided young mens bebo pages is that they seem to be enjoying the notoriety,does not seem they have the sense to tone it down and that there main target is the other solid hearts support who also travel to every away game ,so i expect they will get the same treatment at hamilton and so on ,if thats what gives them there jollies then good luck to them ,they are the ones who will miss out in the end.

 

On a side it seems that wee sinkey has become a sort of Svengali Mr Maiagi figure to them ,and has some new shoes which is nice.

[Acey]

No. I don't "want" people to have a go in others' faces, I just said that, in a situation where the infighting's already started, it's easier to take seriously that way.

 

It's either "infighting" or it isn't. If you can't take one party seriously, then it isn't.

 

Would you rather it were "taken seriously"?

[speedbump]

On a side it seems that wee sinkey has become a sort of Svengali Mr Maiagi figure to them ,and has some new shoes which is nice.

 

The lauding of wee sinky is ironic to the core...............hopefully.