EDUCATE YOUNG LADS FROM YESTERDAY

[Acey]

The lauding of wee sinky is ironic to the core...............hopefully.

 

He sounds and - going by the occasions on which I've seen him - looks like an odious wee simpleton.

[Drylaw Hearts]

He sounds and - going by the occasions on which I've seen him - looks like an odious wee simpleton.

 

[speedbump]

He sounds and - going by the occasions on which I've seen him - looks like an odious wee simpleton.

 

Sinky's alright, fecking harmless wee chap. Has a serious height issue though.

[Gambo]

I do not have a problem with people having religeous/unionist/republican beliefs etc, but is a game of football between Kilmarnock FC V Heart of Midlothian FC (replace the teams with whoever you want) the place to sing/chant/show off/celebrate those beliefs?

 

IMO the only beliefs that should be shown/sung/celebrated at a football match is the belief in your football club and your hatred of the opposition.

 

How would the union jack flyers feel if say gay/lesbian Hearts supporters started flying their rainbow flags (okay, more likely to happen to our city neighbours:D) at games or womens libbers started to chant slogans at games or anti fur campaigners unfurled banners at every game or anti war protesters chanted anti US slogans etc at games?

 

The above groups (who many off may be Hearts supporters) all manage to keep their beliefs to themselves at Hearts games and go to relevant protests/marches etc to make their feelings known about their beliefs.

 

People say they contribute to the atmosphere...............are they unable to contribute to that atmosphere by singing Hearts/football songs? (i know they contribute to Hearts songs, so why the need to sing/chant about non footballing matters?)

 

We should all be united in our support of Hearts during a game, that is all.

 

If you want to support the Church of Scotland, go to church, if you want to support Britishness go to a BNP/Unionist rally, if you want to protest against the roman catholic church, protest outside a chapel, if you want to celebrate roman catholocism, go to chapel, if you want to protest about war, protest outside a US embassy or write to your MP, if you are a very fit good looking female Hearts supporter who wants to protest about fur, turn up naked at a game .

 

There is a time and place for all beliefs, and footballs time and place is at the match.

[leginten]

I'm sorry, I thought that I made my concession of the point perfectly clear by stating that I hadn't phrased myself well with the use of "Unionist sympathies". For the sake of clarity, and to help the hard of thinking, the views expressed in (some of) the songs which were heard on Saturday don't represent the views of everyone with Unionist sympathies. Some which are still lumped in as being "bigoted" for some reason do, though.

 

You've managed to muddy the waters a bit on this one, well done. I fully expect to see you going on about how they're "Rangers fans" in the next thread now, so I guess that it's been a bit of a result for you.

 

All I did was pick out the only part of your original post I was unsure about and ask for clarification. If you're unhappy about people doing that, maybe messageboards just aren't for you.

 

Quaint though it was, I wasn't particularly interested in your bizarre insistence that those who do everything they can to look and sound like Rangers supporters shouldn't be regarded as wannabe Rangers supporters.

 

In my view almost all of the songs sung by the small group (in the first half) on Saturday would be viewed with abhorrence and amazement by the vast majority of those in the UK who believe in the Union. They'd be shocked that the anachronism that is sectarianism in Northern Ireland and the West of Scotland has a small enclave in Edinburgh.

[Mouse]

Would like to see that repeated, not only at the forthcoming game at Hamilton but some elements in Section N are well over due a coffee break.

 

so are you going to be the super fan to stand up and do it or the type of fan who likes to have a go hiding behind his keyboard?

if it wasn't for the fans in N then tynie would be a like morgue, is that what you'd prefer?

i personally dont sing most of these songs but have no problem with it, there are a lot more concerning things going with the club at present rather than worrying about a young group who follow the club across the country and sing there hearts out.

i've only missed 1 game this season (ipox) and i've seen most of them at every other game so i'd consider them as much real/true Hearts fans as any others that go

[troonjambo]

if it wasn't for the fans in N then tynie would be a like morgue,

 

excuse me section g rocks :)

[Patrick Bateman]

I don't see the point in trying to "educate" these "people". Born of poor physical and intellectual stock, they resort to singing ditties about folk who have been dead for 20 years or a conflict that ended over a decade ago because it makes them feel important. These vulnerable and weak individuals are gathered and trained by creepy, middle aged Scout-master types.

 

I have to say, the amount of child-grooming between older men and adolescents is pretty disturbing, perhaps they offer them alcohol in exchange for a few songs? Very Paul Gaddish of them.

[speedbump]

I don't see the point in trying to "educate" these "people". Born of poor physical and intellectual stock, they resort to singing ditties about folk who have been dead for 20 years or a conflict that ended over a decade ago because it makes them feel important. These vulnerable and weak individuals are gathered and trained by creepy, middle aged Scout-master types.

 

I have to say, the amount of child-grooming between older men and adolescents is pretty disturbing, perhaps they offer them alcohol in exchange for a few songs? Very Paul Gaddish of them.

 

How very clever, high handed and bigoted of you.

[Patrick Bateman]

How very clever, high handed and bigoted of you.

 

Please point out the bigoted element of this post. Thanks.

 

Or are you saying that prejudice against pederasts and child abusers isn't legitimate?

[speedbump]

I don't see the point in trying to "educate" these "people". Born of poor physical and intellectual stock

 

That is bigoted and to be honest typical of people who think they have a moral highground on this subject but resort to insulting people who they have never met.

 

Bigoted.........

–adjective

utterly intolerant of any creed, belief, or opinion that differs from one's own.

[MacDonald Jardine]

I do not have a problem with people having religeous/unionist/republican beliefs etc, but is a game of football between Kilmarnock FC V Heart of Midlothian FC (replace the teams with whoever you want) the place to sing/chant/show off/celebrate those beliefs?

 

IMO the only beliefs that should be shown/sung/celebrated at a football match is the belief in your football club and your hatred of the opposition.

 

How would the union jack flyers feel if say gay/lesbian Hearts supporters started flying their rainbow flags (okay, more likely to happen to our city neighbours:D) at games or womens libbers started to chant slogans at games or anti fur campaigners unfurled banners at every game or anti war protesters chanted anti US slogans etc at games?

The above groups (who many off may be Hearts supporters) all manage to keep their beliefs to themselves at Hearts games and go to relevant protests/marches etc to make their feelings known about their beliefs.

 

People say they contribute to the atmosphere...............are they unable to contribute to that atmosphere by singing Hearts/football songs? (i know they contribute to Hearts songs, so why the need to sing/chant about non footballing matters?)

 

We should all be united in our support of Hearts during a game, that is all.

 

If you want to support the Church of Scotland, go to church, if you want to support Britishness go to a BNP/Unionist rally, if you want to protest against the roman catholic church, protest outside a chapel, if you want to celebrate roman catholocism, go to chapel, if you want to protest about war, protest outside a US embassy or write to your MP, if you are a very fit good looking female Hearts supporter who wants to protest about fur, turn up naked at a game .

 

There is a time and place for all beliefs, and footballs time and place is at the match.

 

That's not at all the same and I suspect you know it.

Like it or not there is and has been a religious aspect to professional football in Scotland.

Like it or not and agree with it or not Hearts tend to be associated with the Protestant side.

That includes expressions of Unionism/ Loyalism.

 

Unless you can point to a team originally set up for homosexuals I suggest you find a better example.

[Patrick Bateman]

I don't see the point in trying to "educate" these "people". Born of poor physical and intellectual stock

 

That is bigoted and to be honest typical of people who think they have a moral highground on this subject but resort to insulting people who they have never met.

 

Bigoted.........

?adjective

utterly intolerant of any creed, belief, or opinion that differs from one's own.

 

So by your take on that definition, anyone who expresses an opposing view is a bigot? Hmm, interesting. It's not my fault the gimps from Saturday look like they've escaped from a death camp.

[speedbump]

Yet more insults, you must be perfect. I wish were you, you flosser:mw_rolleyes:

[Patrick Bateman]

Yet more insults, you must be perfect. I wish were you, you flosser:mw_rolleyes:

 

I don't really understand that second sentence of yours, better stick to working with kids

[Therapist]

Born of poor physical and intellectual stock

 

look like they've escaped from a death camp.

 

 

 

Is it only me who detects a worrying Nazi-esque tone to your choice of phrase?

[speedbump]

I don't really understand that second sentence of yours, better stick to working with kids

 

Oh I see what you did there, you're the bestest poster on here!

[Patrick Bateman]

Is it only me who detects a worrying Nazi-esque tone to your choice of phrase?

 

Deary me Therapist, I thought you'd be smart enough to recognise irony. FAIL. Now, where did I leave my brown shirt and jack boots...

[speedbump]

Is it only me who detects a worrying Nazi-esque tone to your choice of phrase?

 

I'd spotted it but I was willing to see how far the far left would go on the subject.....................Stalinist thought control arrives at Tynie!

 

Happy Days, Viva la revolution:mw_rolleyes:

[Therapist]

I thought you'd be smart enough to recognise irony.

 

I am now detecting the sound of furious backpedaling.....

[Guest jambomickey]

hearts can do without this small minority who bring shame to the club

[Generic Username]

If it could just be clarified for me what singing "Rule Britania", waving flags with red hands on them and all that jazz has to do with Hearts I'd love to be educated.

 

If you are proud to be British - super.

 

Just so there's no confusion though, a football game is not a place to celebrate your religious views/proclaim a love of Britain or whatever it is these blokes do.

 

It's an oppertunity to go and support the team you love, who've shown you good times and bad and hopefully after 90 minutes, to have thoroughly enjoyed yourself and been able to be entertained and perhaps created an excellent atmosphere for the players and other fans.

 

Singing about being up to your knee's in "fenian blood" has nothing, and I cannot stress this enough, NOTHING to do with Hearts. Are these blokes honestly telling me that they are unable to keep a lid on these ideals for 90 minutes and support the team in other ways that aren't going to drag us through the dirt?

 

I've not looked back through the entirity of this thread but hopefully people don't start pulling out the "freedom of speach" card or I'll just start singing songs about Fred West and killing Muselims on Saturday if it's alright to do absolutely anything you like at the football.

 

I'm tired of wasting energy getting irrate about this stuff, it's just boring to me now. Go to marches, learn funny handshakes, whatever it is thats associated with the guff that went on at Killie but at the game just do everyone, yourselves included, and leave it outside the ground.

 

Some of these kids/older gents may well be die hard Hearts fans but that's not a valid reason to act like an idiot.

[speedbump]

I've not looked back through the entirity of this thread but hopefully people don't start pulling out the "freedom of speach" card or I'll just start singing songs about Fred West and killing Muselims on Saturday if it's alright to do absolutely anything you like at the football.

 

Charge on:laugh::laugh:

[ArthurScargill]

I am now detecting the sound of furious backpedaling.....

 

Therapist, can you please explain why you believe the songs sung by these people are acceptable...and why you feel the hatred they have for Catholics is also acceptable?

 

Thanks for your co-operation in this matter.

[Patrick Bateman]

I am now detecting the sound of furious backpedaling.....

 

 

To where? I said nothing wrong nor out of place. I'm merely critical of the seedy actions of a few middle aged men/scoutmaster types. I'd hate to see some sort of scandal involving HMFC supporting youths and abusive instructor types, but I'm afraid we may be too late. What sort of middle aged man wants to hang about with 14-16 year old boys anyway? Beasts.

[troonjambo]

am i the only one who thinks this is getting rather silly now and its time to jog on i mean seriously there a RIDICULOUS poll on whether one third of the hearts away support should **** off (despite the fact it was no more than 1% that was singing )

 

there's guys from all corners of the earth condemning ,arguing and demanding guys stop going to games that they themselves can not or do not attend

 

i was well ****ed off when the mods deleted the first thread on this but i can see the wisdom in that decision now

 

the hibs must be ****ing themselves laughing at this online mess

[Therapist]

Therapist, can you please explain why you believe the songs sung by these people are acceptable...and why you feel the hatred they have for Catholics is also acceptable?

 

 

Only if you can show me the post where I actually said that.

[speedbump]

To where? I said nothing wrong nor out of place. I'm merely critical of the seedy actions of a few middle aged men/scoutmaster types. I'd hate to see some sort of scandal involving HMFC supporting youths and abusive instructor types, but I'm afraid we may be too late. What sort of middle aged man wants to hang about with 14-16 year old boys anyway? Beasts.

 

Oh dear god, you've lost the plot! How on earth do you know the ages of those involved in any of these so called crimes on saturday?

 

A few like minded people singing songs openly likened to the action of paedophile group/gang.

 

You're obviously seriously sick.

[Patrick Bateman]

You're obviously seriously sick.

 

Not half as sick as the sort of men who'd hang around young boys to teach them a few songs for some sweeties and a puppet show eh? Throw in a few beers and you'll have a situation that would have made Torbett blush.

[ArthurScargill]

To where? I said nothing wrong nor out of place. I'm merely critical of the seedy actions of a few middle aged men/scoutmaster types. I'd hate to see some sort of scandal involving HMFC supporting youths and abusive instructor types, but I'm afraid we may be too late. What sort of middle aged man wants to hang about with 14-16 year old boys anyway? Beasts.

 

Wouldn't work yourself up over Therapist mate...he is simply a wind-up merchant, and pulling out the same old lines 'back peddling' etc...when he wants to annoy whoever has a differing view from himself.

 

Isn't it strange that the same people who feel pavement dancing is acceptable, also feel that sectarianism, hatred, and displaying their unionist beliefs at every opportunity is acceptable...hmmmm

[speedbump]

Not half as sick as the sort of men who'd hang around young boys to teach them a few songs for some sweeties and a puppet show eh? Throw in a few beers and you'll have a situation that would have made Torbett blush.

 

You've got issues, serious issues.

[ArthurScargill]

 

Only if you can show me the post where I actually said that.

 

So are you saying that you feel what these people are doing is not acceptable then?

 

And that the beliefs they hold so dearly are also not acceptable?

 

Is that right Therapist?

[Patrick Bateman]

You've got issues, serious issues.

 

Again, not as many issues as the men perpetrating... oh, never mind. I'll just let you defend your friends wee ring, but don't come whining on here when the police seize your panini albums and hard drives.

 

[ArthurScargill]

You've got issues, serious issues.

 

Not really...I see where he is coming from.

 

What kind of grown man feels it is acceptable to take impressionable children and poison their minds with his own hatred with unacceptable views?

 

It is always the same with these kind of people...target the impressionable, the isolated, the lonely, the misunderstood...the uneducated...as they will be easier to brainwash.

 

It is quite pathetic.

[Patrick Bateman]

For the benefit of intellectually challenged or those suffering from an irony bypass, I'd like to clarify that I don't think the creepy, middle aged choir groomers are confirmed paedophiles. That doesn't stop their actions being as sinister as a sleepover at Neverland ranch though.

[speedbump]

Again, not as many issues as the men perpetrating... oh, never mind. I'll just let you defend your friends wee ring, but don't come whining on here when the police seize your panini albums and hard drives.

 

 

Not really...I see where he is coming from.

 

What kind of grown man feels it is acceptable to take impressionable children and poison their minds with his own hatred with unacceptable views?

 

It is always the same with these kind of people...target the impressionable, the isolated, the lonely, the misunderstood...the uneducated...as they will be easier to brainwash.

 

It is quite pathetic.

 

I'll keep this simple for you, get your nose out of the leftie physcology books. Speak to these lads and lassies find out why they hold these views. Maybe even try to understand their upbringing and history but spare me the they've all been groomed/coerced into acting in this manner nonsense.

I bet your the sort of person who buys the leftist myth that all men are gay when given the chance, like when in prison.

[Patrick Bateman]

I'll keep this simple for you, get your nose out of the leftie physcology books. Speak to these lads and lassies find out why they hold these views. Maybe even try to understand their upbringing and history but spare me the they've all been groomed/coerced into acting in this manner nonsense.

I bet your the sort of person who buys the leftist myth that all men are gay when given the chance, like when in prison.

 

1) You'll keep this simple for me? Why thanks, I was beginning to get lost for a second.

 

2) Yes, stop all that reading, it's for them damn liberals with their progressive thoughts! Long live anti-intellectualism

 

3)I do: They're likely from low-income backgrounds with absent or poor quality parenting (if parents are even known) so they cling onto group ideologies. This will especially happen when they're seduced by older, charismatic role models. See; The Scouting Movement/ The Hitler Youth.

 

4) Why on earth did you start talking about homosexuality in prisons? Please take your primal screams elsewhere.

[ArthurScargill]

I'll keep this simple for you, get your nose out of the leftie physcology books. Speak to these lads and lassies find out why they hold these views. Maybe even try to understand their upbringing and history but spare me the they've all been groomed/coerced into acting in this manner nonsense.

I bet your the sort of person who buys the leftist myth that all men are gay when given the chance, like when in prison.

 

Sorry to disappoint you, but I am far removed from being a leftist. It is interesting that because I hold a different view to yourself that you have been narrowminded enough to attempt to label me in this way. Should I call you a right-wing nazi? Would that be ok in your eyes?

 

So what you are saying, is that these 'children' developed these views all on their own...and that the adults who were there egging them on, never had any influence on what they were doing? Or indeed...they have not been influenced by any other adults in their lives...parents etc?

 

As far as I am concerned...any adult who makes a child do something considered completely unacceptable, is clearly 'grooming' that child...in the sense that they are attempting to create a new generation of people holding the same beliefs as themselves.

[Gambo]

That's not at all the same and I suspect you know it.

Like it or not there is and has been a religious aspect to professional football in Scotland.

Like it or not and agree with it or not Hearts tend to be associated with the Protestant side.

That includes expressions of Unionism/ Loyalism.

 

Unless you can point to a team originally set up for homosexuals I suggest you find a better example.

 

Irrespective of what happened 130yr ago, or what goes on through in the west of Scotland and fast forwarding to today, do you think a football match is the correct place to celebrate ones chosen religion, baring in mind (imo) that 99% of those who do take part in those sort of songs will probably not see the inside of a church/chapel on the Sunday morning (funnily enough i do think a bigger proportion of Celtic fans would)?

 

Is there not a better productive way to show ones expression of unionism/loyalism than at a football match?

[Diego10]

I'll keep this simple for you, get your nose out of the leftie physcology books. Speak to these lads and lassies find out why they hold these views. Maybe even try to understand their upbringing and history but spare me the they've all been groomed/coerced into acting in this manner nonsense.

I bet your the sort of person who buys the leftist myth that all men are gay when given the chance, like when in prison.

 

aye, i'll bet you'd get some great debate going with them. Their views on John Knox's reformation would be well worth hearing. Also, why they feel it is trenchant to continue singing anti republican songs when there has been an IRA ceasefire for the best part of 15 years.

 

They could just be stupid of course

[speedbump]

1) You'll keep this simple for me? Why thanks, I was beginning to get lost for a second.

 

2) Yes, stop all that reading, it's for them damn liberals with their progressive thoughts! Long live anti-intellectualism

 

3)I do: They're likely from low-income backgrounds with absent or poor quality parenting (if parents are even known) so they cling onto group ideologies. This will especially happen when they're seduced by older, charismatic role models. See; The Scouting Movement/ The Hitler Youth.

 

4) Why on earth did you start talking about homosexuality in prisons? Please take your primal screams elsewhere.

 

Sweeping generalisations, don't you just love them.

 

As for comments on homosexuality it was nod and wink at your obvious obsession with paedo actions.

[speedbump]

aye, i'll bet you'd get some great debate going with them. Their views on John Knox's reformation would be well worth hearing. Also, why they feel it is trenchant to continue singing anti republican songs when there has been an IRA ceasefire for the best part of 15 years.

 

They could just be stupid of course

 

I don't know maybe you should speak to those involved.

[Patrick Bateman]

Sweeping generalisations, do you just love them.

 

As for comments on homosexuality it was nod and wink at your obvious obsession with paedo actions.

 

How can a statement with the word "likely" be classed as a generalisation? I didn't claim the whole group were from poor backgrounds. It's a tragedy that these kids are being dragged into pointless rubbish that they don't even understand.

 

They've effectively been drafted to wind up Hearts supporters at the whim of a few pathetic and sinister individuals. They need to be shown a better way of representing this football club because at the moment they only embarrass themselves.

[ToadKiller Dog]

Surely the leftist view would be that these young men are victims of the brutal capitalist society which causes the alienation which forces them to look for answers in extreme ideologies rather than to take part in the main public discourse and that the best way forward for these teenagers would be through education rather than for them to be ostracised or removed from society.

but then i might be wrong sure Boris can put me right.

 

Never heard Marxist theory on all men being gay ,certainly Karl Marx liked female company. .

[Ryan Gosling]

Therapist condones the grooming of children. FACT.

[speedbump]

OK we being bogged down a little here. I'm gonna leave this a while, good debate though guys pity about the choice/use of certain phrases by the "morally correct".

[Diego10]

I don't know maybe you should speak to those involved.

 

aye, no thanks. My time on earth is limited enough that I'll no be wasting precious oxygen listening to folk who hate catholics but have no decent reason for it.

[Acey]

Sweeping generalisations, don't you just love them.

 

They are neds. They have a ned background, and have had a ned upbringing. Empirical truth.

 

p.s. Speedbeast and Theranonce. Don't get me started on PinchyBum.

[Miller Jambo 60]

Sorry to disappoint you, but I am far removed from being a leftist. It is interesting that because I hold a different view to yourself that you have been narrowminded enough to attempt to label me in this way. Should I call you a right-wing nazi? Would that be ok in your eyes?

 

So what you are saying, is that these 'children' developed these views all on their own...and that the adults who were there egging them on, never had any influence on what they were doing? Or indeed...they have not been influenced by any other adults in their lives...parents etc?

 

As far as I am concerned...any adult who makes a child do something considered completely unacceptable, is clearly 'grooming' that child...in the sense that they are attempting to create a new generation of people holding the same beliefs as themselves.

 

Believe it or not the kids pick up this stuff in school like a lot of things in school.

If you dont believe this then you are not up to speed with the kids of today.

So im a middle aged groomer because i take my 14 year old to the games and i buy him a pie and sweets.

I have been following hearts since about 1968 and never listened to so much girly rubbish in all my life.

Lets hope Section N is not effected by all this PC drivel and give it big licks on sat.

TBH it wont change us (THANK GOODNESS):108years::108years:

[Simey]

Never saw much hot coffee getting thrown in The Royal Bar on the twelfth!