Supporters 'chief' in trouble

[jambos are go!]

What do you expect from a bunch of silly wee boys? Half of the people slaughtering both JB and WBMC don't have a clue about their existence or what they have done for Hearts. They are too content with their own tiny lives on a forum, and believe that they are bigger than it leads them to be in real life. Let them live their fantasies and ignore them.

 

Coming more and more to that conclusion and less and less glued to JKB. Its a bit played out to be honest and needs a fresh injection of arguement and content. I'm as guilty as anyone I suppose before anyone tells me.

[Dougie Masterton]

Jeezo....Mair Tims? thumbs_up:

[J.T.F.Robertson]

I agree Dougie did not react as well as he perhaps should have done, however he is only human and is reacting to Prancers endless call for JB to be hung drawn and quartered.

 

Prancer strikes me as very aloof guy who does not realise this may have been an act of desperation from a man whose actions have affected his family,friends and fellow member of WBMC and the federation

 

I wonder how we'd all strike Prancer?

[Toxteth O'Grady]

It's quite sad and ironic that prior to the story breaking in the newspapers that around 95% of the people contributing to this thread didn't even know that the WBMC even existed. As club members we need to sort out the mess, but we need to be given time to do without the lynch mob, baying for blood. It seems now that every member of the WBMC should be hung drawn and quartered by some on here.

 

 

 

You should have kept your powder dry mate, it just looks like you have closed ranks and tried to cover up.

 

As you say it's your mess to sort out, I accept it will take time.

 

I'll stick with what I've said though regarding not giving a penny to the WBMC and that is sad, they are now tarnished and seem untrustworthy.

 

Willie may have been before my time but he is a genuine Hearts legend according to my Dad and those of his generation (that's good enough for me). I stood in Gorgie Road and watched his funeral car go bye.

[Craigieboy]

Have to say that Gary McKays 'defense' of this odious little man at the shareholders dinner tonight was cringeworthy.

 

Otherwise a good night.

 

.

[H.A.N.S]

Have to say that Gary McKays 'defense' of this odious little man at the shareholders dinner tonight was cringeworthy.

 

Otherwise a good night.

 

.

 

Tam Cowan cancelled didn't he?

[lost in leith]

You should have kept your powder dry mate, it just looks like you have closed ranks and tried to cover up.

 

As you say it's your mess to sort out, I accept it will take time.

 

I'll stick with what I've said though regarding not giving a penny to the WBMC and that is sad, they are now tarnished and seem untrustworthy.

 

Willie may have been before my time but he is a genuine Hearts legend according to my Dad and those of his generation (that's good enough for me). I stood in Gorgie Road and watched his funeral car go bye.

 

OK, bit of a hypocrite here as I suggested the thread should be closed, but...

 

1. If folk like Dougie hadn't commented they would have been accused of a cover up because they were refusing to comment. Personally I would rather hear the full story than judge on the basis of a story from a ****bag rag like the Sun.

 

2. Judging the WBMC on the basis of a story in said rag is premature. Let the WMBC make a statement and judge them once they've done so.

 

I still think this thread should be closed, far too many drunk people posting

[Toxteth O'Grady]

OK, bit of a hypocrite here as I suggested the thread should be closed, but...

 

1. If folk like Dougie hadn't commented they would have been accused of a cover up because they were refusing to comment. Personally I would rather hear the full story than judge on the basis of a story from a ****bag rag like the Sun.

 

2. Judging the WBMC on the basis of a story in said rag is premature. Let the WMBC make a statement and judge them once they've done so.

 

I still think this thread should be closed, far too many drunk people posting

 

Stop drinking and go to bed then:p

[troonjambo]

You should have kept your powder dry mate, it just looks like you have closed ranks and tried to cover up.

 

As you say it's your mess to sort out, I accept it will take time.

 

I'll stick with what I've said though regarding not giving a penny to the WBMC and that is sad, they are now tarnished and seem untrustworthy.

 

Willie may have been before my time but he is a genuine Hearts legend according to my Dad and those of his generation (that's good enough for me). I stood in Gorgie Road and watched his funeral car go bye.

 

dougie was damned if he did and damned if he did not

 

as to your comments re money and no offence meant but seeing as you have never given any money to them before its not any loss really

 

also like yourself i have never been to a WBMC function however when i go to a hearts function i think of myself as buying something a meal, entrance to a function/dinner company for me its just like going to a club cinema ect ect

personally do not think of these as donations i think of it as entertainment

[Toxteth O'Grady]

dougie was damned if he did and damned if he did not

 

as to your comments re money and no offence meant but seeing as you have never given any money to them before its not any loss really

 

also like yourself i have never been to a WBMC function however when i go to a hearts function i think of myself as buying something a meal, entrance to a function/dinner company for me its just like going to a club cinema ect ect

personally do not think of these as donations i think of it as entertainment

 

 

I can't agree, If I wanted a good meal I'd go to a restaurant.

 

I've been to several Charity dinners and I certainly don't think of them as buying something, for example I have spent ?250 at a cancer charity meal, the food wasn't great but I didn't expect it to be and I didn't care because it was for a good cause.

 

I'll say no more on this matter, hope you can sort things out, goodnight.

[troonjambo]

I can't agree, If I wanted a good meal I'd go to a restaurant.

 

I've been to several Charity dinners and I certainly don't think of them as buying something, for example I have spent ?250 at a cancer charity meal, the food wasn't great but I didn't expect it to be and I didn't care because it was for a good cause.

 

I'll say no more on this matter, hope you can sort things out, goodnight.

 

i would disagree at a hearts dinner the food may be not as good but the company is world class theres always great jambo storys, wonderfully cantankerous old geezers telling you things were better in the 70,60.50,ect ,

 

and last but not least a unity amongst the diners born of a love of all things hearts .

 

its like kickback with beer and food and without prancer :p:p:p:p:p (joke)

 

anyway night night

[davemclaren]

Have to say that Gary McKays 'defense' of this odious little man at the shareholders dinner tonight was cringeworthy.

 

Otherwise a good night.

 

.

 

It was certainly controversial. He clearly knows him well and has a personal loyalty but it seemed unnecessary to me. However, it's up to him what he believes and whether he wants to share that in public or not.

[Robbos Right Peg]

It was certainly controversial. He clearly knows him well and has a personal loyalty but it seemed unnecessary to me. However, it's up to him what he believes and whether he wants to share that in public or not.

 

Well he was right it did appear on 'some web site tonight' The one thing I would say that he spoke up for John as his friend I admire him for that as that is what loyalty as a friend is all about. Although I didn't quite agree with his statement that the 'Hearts supporter' that leaked the story to the press was out of order. Who knows it might have been the 'heart broken husband' or the 'jilted wife' both having a bit of an axe to grind. Unless Gary knows who it was of course.

 

I think it is despicable that anyone should decry Dougie M for trying to explain or the committee for allegedly not explaining what the current situation is with this matter. There are a couple of people investigating and their findings should be given to the membership of the club long before JKB knows about it. But rest assured I am sure what ever is decided will find its way onto JKB one way or another.

[davemclaren]

Well he was right it did appear on 'some web site tonight' The one thing I would say that he spoke up for John as his friend I admire him for that as that is what loyalty as a friend is all about. Although I didn't quite agree with his statement that the 'Hearts supporter' that leaked the story to the press was out of order. Who knows it might have been the 'heart broken husband' or the 'jilted wife' both having a bit of an axe to grind. Unless Gary knows who it was of course.

 

I think it is despicable that anyone should decry Dougie M for trying to explain or the committee for allegedly not explaining what the current situation is with this matter. There are a couple of people investigating and their findings should be given to the membership of the club long before JKB knows about it. But rest assured I am sure what ever is decided will find its way onto JKB one way or another.

 

Virtually everything appears on the web somewhere these days so assuming or hoping it won't is a bit naive. It's up to Gary to decide whether he backs a friend or not. However, I wasn't clear what he hoped to achieve with the public statement.

 

I agree with Dougie's sentiments but I .think he could put them across a bit more diplomatically.

 

Regardless of what the WBMC or its members think it does have to do some damage limitation on its credibility after these events. Hopefully it will as it does a lot of good work and it would be a shame if it was hampered in that respect in the future.

[iainmac]

It was certainly controversial. He clearly knows him well and has a personal loyalty but it seemed unnecessary to me. However, it's up to him what he believes and whether he wants to share that in public or not.

 

He does know John well because we all worked together with SOH. Listen, we all know who leaked this to the press and it wasn't his wife or anyone else romantically linked with JB.

 

It was a poster on JKB that gets some kind of "buzz" out of leaking info about HMFC to the press. Half the time, the info is absolute bollocks but no doubt this particular individual still gets his 30 pieces of silver.

 

Anyone with half a brain can work out who this is but, trust me, all of us who have worked closely together over the last few years for the betterment of HMFC know who you are.

 

Persona non grata.

[shaun.lawson]

He does know John well because we all worked together with SOH. Listen, we all know who leaked this to the press and it wasn't his wife or anyone else romantically linked with JB.

 

It was a poster on JKB that gets some kind of "buzz" out of leaking info about HMFC to the press. Half the time, the info is absolute bollocks but no doubt this particular individual still gets his 30 pieces of silver.

 

Anyone with half a brain can work out who this is but, trust me, all of us who have worked closely together over the last few years for the betterment of HMFC know who you are.

 

Persona non grata.

 

Awful and depressing. It's desperately sad if any Hearts fan leaked this: even more if they were paid for it!

[iainmac]

Awful and depressing. It's desperately sad if any Hearts fan leaked this: even more if they were paid for it!

 

Shaun, there is absolutely no doubt about that or, indeed, who it was.

 

His time will come.

[Ryan Gosling]

Name and shame, I say.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

He does know John well because we all worked together with SOH. Listen, we all know who leaked this to the press and it wasn't his wife or anyone else romantically linked with JB.

 

It was a poster on JKB that gets some kind of "buzz" out of leaking info about HMFC to the press. Half the time, the info is absolute bollocks but no doubt this particular individual still gets his 30 pieces of silver.

 

Anyone with half a brain can work out who this is but, trust me, all of us who have worked closely together over the last few years for the betterment of HMFC know who you are.

 

Persona non grata.

 

Obviously the super, soaraway Sun was the highest bidder for the "committee member takes some funds from working men's club story - btw, he's shagging another woman!" space filler.

 

The only thing that surprises me about the story is that Mr Borthwick is an accountant. I met him one night when I was on the Fans Forum committee in 2002 and we met the Federation, when we discussed the Deans share offer. No one on the Federation committee that night seemed to realise that the Deans offer didn't meet stockmarket takeover regulations, which amazed me. So I'm even more surprised now.

 

Still, as I said, there will be no more rent a quotes in the papers, which isn't a bad thing.

[LAIRDY14]

Have to say that Gary McKays 'defense' of this odious little man at the shareholders dinner tonight was cringeworthy.

 

Otherwise a good night.

 

.

 

Totally agree mate, I head my head in my hands a that point, very cringeworthy it was.

 

Fair enough he did say he didn't condone at all what he did, but that he was a good friend of his and was prepared to give him another chance, again fair enough, albeit it I disagree with that. To come out though and say that the person that leaked the story was worse than JB was totally wrong in my opinion.

[Rawrrrrrrr]

Obviously the super, soaraway Sun was the highest bidder for the "committee member takes some funds from working men's club story - btw, he's shagging another woman!" space filler.

 

The only thing that surprises me about the story is that Mr Borthwick is an accountant. I met him one night when I was on the Fans Forum committee in 2002 and we met the Federation, when we discussed the Deans share offer. No one on the Federation committee that night seemed to realise that the Deans offer didn't meet stockmarket takeover regulations, which amazed me. So I'm even more surprised now.

 

Still, as I said, there will be no more rent a quotes in the papers, which isn't a bad thing.

 

To be fair I doubt your average accountant knows stockmarket regulations in detail unless its a major part of their business. Markets plays little if no part in accounting accreditation exams.

 

As for it being leaked to the press, maybe not the guys best moment, and I have no idea who you all mean, but does it change the facts of the story?

 

Not from what I can see.

 

Borthwick stole the money and it was covered up, whilst WBMC do great work, what is happening now is simply the fruition of their own decisions, if they honestly thought it wasn't coming out that was very naive.

 

As for McKay whilst its fair for him to stick by a pal, I think suggesting someone who didnt want to cover it up is out of order, well is frankly out of order.

 

One person is to blame for all this, and at this time they do not appear to being made to answer the full repercussions of their actions.

 

The most concerning thing about all this to me after the theft, is the desire, of all these folk responsible for the fundraised money to ensure there is no outside accountability. There comments and handling of the situation, are far more damaging than the theft to their cause, and they had full responsibility over these.

[IMA MAROON]

Awful and depressing. It's desperately sad if any Hearts fan leaked this: even more if they were paid for it!

 

I agree with that. I'm sure he'll get what is coming to him.

[ando]

i think the person had the chance to say what he thought at the meeting as he was there but decided to go to the press with it and not for the first time either.

[Rawrrrrrrr]

i think the person had the chance to say what he thought at the meeting as he was there but decided to go to the press with it and not for the first time either.

 

 

That is pretty out of order, and if they were not happy they had better avenues to go down.

 

Certainly it seems that the leak was to cause trouble, but then it should never have been covered up in the first place.

 

If they are a JKB poster they could defend their actions, if they don't then its clearly an admission of wrongdoing, albeit nowere near as the theft itself as some are insinuating.

[boabyarsebiscuit]

What's the going rate for leaking HMFC related pish to the press by the way?

[ando]

That is pretty out of order, and if they were not happy they had better avenues to go down.

 

Certainly it seems that the leak was to cause trouble, but then it should never have been covered up in the first place.

 

If they are a JKB poster they could defend their actions, if they don't then its clearly an admission of wrongdoing, albeit nowere near as the theft itself as some are insinuating.

 

I dont think it was covered up they had the audit they found discrepancies and dealt with it at the time. The WBMC will no doubt be meeting to discuss the events of last week and the course of action they take will be the best for the club and not John Borthwick .

[jambos are go!]

What's the going rate for leaking HMFC related pish to the press by the way?

 

 

Enormous if you are an attention seeker on JKB.

[Colonel Kurtz]

Enormous if you are an attention seeker on JKB.

 

I have already staed on this thread that I question the motives of Prancer and who ever leaked the sory to The Sun.

I was not at the diner last night but applaud Gary mackays stance and echo the sentiments he expresed.

This is not the first time that a member of the Hearts family has fell by the wayside,and been given the opportunity to fall on his sword in private and is the way it should be.

In response to posts stating they would not support the WBMC fund raising in the future,I submit an converse point of view.I have never supported them in the past but will take a table at their next dinner.

[Rawrrrrrrr]

I have already staed on this thread that I question the motives of Prancer and who ever leaked the sory to The Sun.

I was not at the diner last night but applaud Gary mackays stance and echo the sentiments he expresed.

This is not the first time that a member of the Hearts family has fell by the wayside,and been given the opportunity to fall on his sword in private and is the way it should be.

In response to posts stating they would not support the WBMC fund raising in the future,I submit an converse point of view.I have never supported them in the past but will take a table at their next dinner.

 

 

So you agree the person who leaked it is up there with the person who stole 10k?

[ando]

So you agree the person who leaked it is up there with the person who stole 10k?

 

would you be happy to let the law of the land decide

[boabyarsebiscuit]

Are we up to 12 pages yet?

[shaun.lawson]

I have already staed on this thread that I question the motives of Prancer and who ever leaked the sory to The Sun.

I was not at the diner last night but applaud Gary mackays stance and echo the sentiments he expresed.

This is not the first time that a member of the Hearts family has fell by the wayside,and been given the opportunity to fall on his sword in private and is the way it should be.

In response to posts stating they would not support the WBMC fund raising in the future,I submit an converse point of view.I have never supported them in the past but will take a table at their next dinner.

 

I also respect Gary Mackay's stance on this. He's standing by a friend, as I hope would most of us if a friend of ours found themselves in a similar position. A man made a mistake - a very big one, certainly, but he should be allowed to deal with the fallout in privacy and dignity. Personally, I find it sad that rather than feel sympathy for or at least not rush to judgement on a fellow Jambo who has done much good work for the fans and the club, some would apparently prefer to have a party on his metaphorical grave.

[Rawrrrrrrr]

would you be happy to let the law of the land decide

 

Are the police involved now then?

 

If so fair enough, otherwise your comment isnt happening

[Drylaw Hearts]

Are we up to 12 pages yet?

 

This is on the verge of becoming as big as the infamous Mark McGhee thread.

 

When the name of whoever called the tabloids is revealed this thread will be given a new lease of life.

[Colonel Kurtz]

This is on the verge of becoming as big as the infamous Mark McGhee thread.

 

When the name of whoever called the tabloids is revealed this thread will be given a new lease of life.

 

I thought it was you

Dont the media have a war correspondant permanently "embedded" in the front line at Drylaw

[ando]

Are the police involved now then?

 

If so fair enough, otherwise your comment isnt happening

 

you write the law must be involved but on other threads a judge gives out a a jail term and he is a joke

[Rawrrrrrrr]

you write the law must be involved but on other threads a judge gives out a a jail term and he is a joke

 

 

Our courts are too lenient at times.

 

It doesnt change the fact the law should be involved in this crime, tbh he probably wouldnt get a jail term, and I wouldnt wish him too since he is repaying the money and suffering already, but he did commit a criminal act and this should be recognised.

[ando]

Our courts are too lenient at times.

 

It doesnt change the fact the law should be involved in this crime, tbh he probably wouldnt get a jail term, and I wouldnt wish him too since he is repaying the money and suffering already, but he did commit a criminal act and this should be recognised.

 

it doesnt matter what happens you will still complain any way iam of to the pub enjoy your play time

[Drylaw Hearts]

I thought it was you

Dont the media have a war correspondant permanently "embedded" in the front line at Drylaw

 

It definitely wasn't me CK.

 

'Grassing' is frowned upon where I'm from.

 

Btw....

 

The Drylaw 'War Correspondant' moved to Gilmerton when guns, knives and murdering was all the rage a couple of years ago.

[ando]

and when iam there i will ask for a bottle of prancer ......bitter & twisted

[lou]

Our courts are too lenient at times.

 

It doesnt change the fact the law should be involved in this crime, tbh he probably wouldnt get a jail term, and I wouldnt wish him too since he is repaying the money and suffering already, but he did commit a criminal act and this should be recognised.

 

If you think he is suffering enough and he has repayed the money,why do you want the police involved????

[Hagar the Horrible]

For the Attention of the Mods:

 

This board is intended for open debate, but some are taking it too far, comments have been made that could be considered libelious, despite all the best efforts to explain that no crime has been committed, nobody has been charged with any offence and certainly NOT convicted, some (one in particular) continually use the term theft and claims that monies have been stolen, and even more so to cast shadows over the membership of a Private club including it's committee. Implying a cover up or involvement, when clearly this has not been the case.

 

I think it would be prudent to suspend this thread before this website and certain posters land themselves in bother or at least change the tone and stick soley to the facts that are known at this time.

[Rawrrrrrrr]

For the Attention of the Mods:

 

This board is intended for open debate, but some are taking it too far, comments have been made that could be considered libelious, despite all the best efforts to explain that no crime has been committed, nobody has been charged with any offence and certainly NOT convicted, some (one in particular) continually use the term theft and claims that monies have been stolen, and even more so to cast shadows over the membership of a Private club including it's committee. Implying a cover up or involvement, when clearly this has not been the case.

 

I think it would be prudent to suspend this thread before this website and certain posters land themselves in bother or at least change the tone and stick soley to the facts that are known at this time.

 

So you are stating that taking monies without permission is not criminal if you repay them later?

 

As for cover up, a criminal act was discovered involving a senior member taking fundraised funds , and the police were not involved. That is a cover up no matter what the intentions for doing so.

 

What facts in the thread are you disputing?

[Rawrrrrrrr]

If you think he is suffering enough and he has repayed the money,why do you want the police involved????

 

 

Were did I say suffering enough?

 

He took money without permission and should recognise the full criminal, private and professional repercussions.

 

The fact he has repaid the funds and any other circumstances will be taken into consideration by the polic/PF/courts in any investigation/sentencing.

[shaun.lawson]

So you are stating that taking monies without permission is not criminal if you repay them later?

 

As for cover up, a criminal act was discovered involving a senior member taking fundraised funds , and the police were not involved. That is a cover up no matter what the intentions for doing so.

 

What facts in the thread are you disputing?

 

[lou]

Were did I say suffering enough?

 

He took money without permission and should recognise the full criminal, private and professional repercussions.

 

The fact he has repaid the funds and any other circumstances will be taken into consideration by the polic/PF/courts in any investigation/sentencing.

 

Oh so you agree he is suffering but not enough!!

 

Why don't you stop spending so much time playing on the internet and go out and sample the real life experiences you so obviously require.

[Tasavallan]

Question:

 

Am I missing anything important by having Prancer on my ignore list?

 

[IMA MAROON]

Were did I say suffering enough?

 

He took money without permission and should recognise the full criminal, private and professional repercussions.

 

The fact he has repaid the funds and any other circumstances will be taken into consideration by the polic/PF/courts in any investigation/sentencing.

 

Are you a mate of the guy that stuck him in?

[boabyarsebiscuit]

Are you a mate of the guy that stuck him in?

 

Stupid question.

 

Prancer has no mates. I've checked his Facebook.

[Rawrrrrrrr]

Are you a mate of the guy that stuck him in?

 

 

No, not a clue who did.

 

Guy clearly seems to have had questionable motives and obviously a score to settle, dont think that makes him as bad as JB though, and certainly dont think it should act as some sort of acceptable reason for it all being downplayed.