Hearts 'Legends'

[Charlie-Brown]

But Mackay was a very good player for a long time. Smith made so many mistakes it was ridiculous: many think he was never the same after the 88 semi-final, yet he stayed in the team for another seven and more years! I think he should've been replaced circa 92/3 myself.

 

Possibly true he should have hung up the gloves around about then but plenty players go on well past their best - Steven Pressley being another example. Henry signed in 1981 and until 1992-93 as you say he deserved his place almost every week - that is the best part of a dozen years of great service - as well as hundreds of great saves and more clean sheets than anybody else - if he's not a legend then nobody else like Colquhoun our Levein or McPherson or anyone else from that era can be - but they all are!

[Francis Albert]

:mad: :mad:

 

A vile, odious, slimy individual. He can never be bracketed with true legends such as Bauld and Busby.

 

It is an illustration of how difficult this "legend" thing is that I think most of us of a certain age will wince at Bauld and Busby being mentioned in this context in the same breath.

 

For what its worth, my view is that one necessary qualification for being a legend is to be dead. Untiil then "hero" has to be enough. Tough, but there it is.

[shaun.lawson]

Was that the game where Smith put the penalty past the post?.If it is i don't remember him pulling on a hearts jersey after that?.

 

I think you're right - though LH will confirm.

 

Hearts side for famous 3-0 win at Tannadice in April '86

Smith, Cowie, Whittaker, S. Jardine, Berry, Levein, Colquhoun, Black, Clark, Mackay (McAdam), Robertson. Sub unused: I. Jardine.

 

Hearts side at Dens in Sep '95

 

Smith, Locke, Winnie (Jamieson), Berry, McPherson, Hamilton, Colquhoun, Mackay (Leitch), Robertson, Hagen, Lawrence. Unused sub: Nelson

 

Hearts side for 1996 Scottish Cup Final (only eight months later)

 

Rousset, Locke (Lawrence), Ritchie, McManus, McPherson, Bruno (Robertson), Johnston, Mackay, Colquhoun, Fulton, Pointon. Unused sub: Hogarth.

 

JJ, in other words, had implemented something which was well overdue.

[Bickfest]

My definition of the word legend would be someone who gave far more to the club than he ever took back. A player who could have achieved either more money/prestige elsewhere but stuck with the club. Someone who viewed the club as more than just an employer.

 

Take Pressley for example - a Hearts great no doubt, a cup winning captain, passionate about the club - but not a legend for me. His career was stagnant until he joined Hearts and whilst he was a solid centre half, he was not without his flaws. It's unlikely he could have played at a higher level than Hearts. So i'd say the generous wages we gave him and the platform we allowed him would even up with what he did for the club. I'd be expecting a lot more from a legend.

I think that's a pretty good definition. In my time supporting Hearts, there would be few true qualifiers. (Actually Pressley would be one, tho'. Paul Hartley would come close also, even if only for that hat-trick.) But how about Donald Ford, Jim Cruickshank and Drew "Jesus saves but Busby nets the rebound".

[Ray Winstone]

Source?

 

Its what my mates down the pub think.

 

They are representative of the majority of Hearts fan's opinions.

 

[Chip Douglas]

Probably controversial as hell but we've only ever had just over a handful of genuine "legends" if the phrase is to mean anything. And John Robertson is the only one in the past 50 years.

 

Spot on, the true meaning of "legend" is being diluted at will on this thread.

[Francis Albert]

Probably controversial as hell but we've only ever had just over a handful of genuine "legends" if the phrase is to mean anything. And John Robertson is the only one in the past 50 years.

 

I almost agree. Except Willie Bauld, Alfie Conn and Jimmy Wardaugh were all still playing 50 years ago.

 

And of course my "must be dead" rule.

[shaun.lawson]

Possibly true he should have hung up the gloves around about then but plenty players go on well past their best - Steven Pressley being another example. Henry signed in 1981 and until 1992-93 as you say he deserved his place almost every week - that is the best part of a dozen years of great service - as well as hundreds of great saves and more clean sheets than anybody else - if he's not a legend then nobody else like Colquhoun our Levein or McPherson or anyone else from that era can be - but they all are!

 

In fairness, you saw and are able to fondly recall the earlier half of Smith's Hearts career. I'm not - so apart from our great run during 91/2 (he was particularly good in a 1-0 win at home to Rangers IIRC), I'm only able to remember the blunders!

[Gambo]

Legends in the modern era

 

John Robertson

John Colquhoun

Gary Mackay

Antti Niemi

Stephen Pressley (though I respect one of the reasons others will feel differently - but not the other)

 

Close but not quite

 

Craig Gordon

Colin Cameron

Craig Levein

 

Great servants to the club, but not legends

 

Thomas Flogel

Gary Naysmith

Paul Hartley

 

Did a legendary thing, but not a legend

 

Stephane Adam

Robbie Nielson

 

Cult heroes, but not legends

 

Pasquale Bruno

Scott Crabbe

Rudolph Skacel

 

 

What, no Jeremy Goss?

[shaun.lawson]

What, no Jeremy Goss?

 

He's not even a Norwich legend! He'd be in the Adam or Bruno categories with us. The Norwich/Hearts link hasn't exactly worked out: there was also Darren Beckford, who I could've told JJ all about before he arrived, while Julien Brellier was a disaster at Carrow Road. Jimmy Bone's the only positive one I can think of!

[Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC]

He's not even a Norwich legend! He'd be in the Adam or Bruno categories with us. The Norwich/Hearts link hasn't exactly worked out: there was also Darren Beckford, who I could've told JJ all about before he arrived, while Julien Brellier was a disaster at Carrow Road. Jimmy Bone's the only positive one I can think of!

 

Can you fill me in on Le Judges time at Norwich?

 

Did the fans take to him? Was he crap?

 

I seem to recall him scoring from the half way line or something?

 

Where is he now?

?

[arfurdaley]

Andy Thorne

 

[shaun.lawson]

Can you fill me in on Le Judges time at Norwich?

 

Did the fans take to him? Was he crap?

 

I seem to recall him scoring from the half way line or something?

 

Where is he now?

?

 

The fans did take to him initially - but as with other Peter Grant signings (except the excellent David Marshall), it didn't work out, and then some. He definitely didn't score from the halfway line; and the nadir, and crowning turd in the waterpipe of Norwich's worst performance in decades, was this:

 

http://www.pinkun.com/content/NCFC/Stats/2007-2008/matches/070922Wolves.aspx

 

City?s afternoon was turning into a total disaster and with 15 minutes to go, Brellier became the second player to be shown the red card.

 

First he fouled Elliott on the touchline not far from the Norwich dugout and as referee Bennett reached for the yellow card, Brellier kicked the ball away and the official produced yellow, followed by red, leaving City down to nine men.

 

Two bookings in less than a minute! He then played in an even more shambolic 3-0 thumping at Plymouth, and along with Ian Murray, was never seen again in a Norwich shirt. He's now plying his trade for well known footballing giants, FC Sion. That one worked out well, didn't it Jules?

[Tazio]

It amazes me the one name that always takes a long time to appear in these threads but should be one of the very first.

 

John Cumming.

[ecjambo]

Some ones that I think are legends in my 21 years of being a Jambo. John Robertson, Steven Pressley, Craig Gordon and Paul Hartley. Anyway tea time!

[Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC]

The fans did take to him initially - but as with other Peter Grant signings (except the excellent David Marshall), it didn't work out, and then some. He definitely didn't score from the halfway line; and the nadir, and crowning turd in the waterpipe of Norwich's worst performance in decades, was this:

 

http://www.pinkun.com/content/NCFC/Stats/2007-2008/matches/070922Wolves.aspx

 

City?s afternoon was turning into a total disaster and with 15 minutes to go, Brellier became the second player to be shown the red card.

 

First he fouled Elliott on the touchline not far from the Norwich dugout and as referee Bennett reached for the yellow card, Brellier kicked the ball away and the official produced yellow, followed by red, leaving City down to nine men.

 

Two bookings in less than a minute! He then played in an even more shambolic 3-0 thumping at Plymouth, and along with Ian Murray, was never seen again in a Norwich shirt. He's now plying his trade for well known footballing giants, FC Sion. That one worked out well, didn't it Jules?

 

So it's safe to say it never worked out then.

 

Oh well, maybe he wasn't the god I thought he was!

[shaun.lawson]

So it's safe to say it never worked out then.

 

Oh well, maybe he wasn't the god I thought he was!

 

He was a cult hero, and important player for Hearts certainly. I was delighted when I heard Norwich had signed him - but subsequent events have certainly feet of clay.

[Buffalo Bill]

Bobby Walker

Tommy Walker

John Cumming

Willie Bauld

Jimmy Wardhaugh

Alfie Conn Snr

Dave Mackay

Alex Young

Donald Ford

Drew Busby

John Robertson

Gary MacKay

Craig Levein

Colin Cameron

Paul Hartley

 

 

.

[shaun.lawson]

No Cruickie or JC, Bill? Mind you, inspired by your post yesterday, I did find these pretty legendary:

 

 

You have impeccable taste in biscuits, Sir!

[Buffalo Bill]

No Cruickie or JC, Bill? Mind you, inspired by your post yesterday, I did find these pretty legendary:

 

 

You have impeccable taste in biscuits, Sir!

 

Add Jim to my list.

 

Those are indeed the finest biscuits on the planet.

 

 

Buffalo Bill

 

.

[Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC]

He was a cult hero, and important player for Hearts certainly. I was delighted when I heard Norwich had signed him - but subsequent events have certainly feet of clay.

 

I'm being a nosey fecker, but do you see yourself as a Hearts fan first and foremost or a Norwich fan?

 

Lets be 'avin you!

 

[Tazio]

Barney Battles, the best goalscorer Hearts have ever had.

[shaun.lawson]

I'm being a nosey fecker, but do you see yourself as a Hearts fan first and foremost or a Norwich fan?

 

Lets be 'avin you!

 

 

Hearts. They were always level until the last year or so; but the JTs have gone past NCFC now.

[The Merse]

Hearts. They were always level until the last year or so; but the JTs have gone past NCFC now.

 

Without trying to sound obnoxious or that, I'm just curious, how often do you get to the games?

[Bomber Harris]

I see your John Millar, and raise you a Neil Berry.

 

I've only got a pair of David Winnie's - you win

[shaun.lawson]

Without trying to sound obnoxious or that, I'm just curious, how often do you get to the games?

 

Normally eight times a season. I haven't been since Nov '07 though - I refused to go for the rest of 07/8 because I was so fed up with what Romanov was doing. I'm happier now, but in transition between uni and a job, so am as skint as a very skint thing. Once I'm in work, probably early in the New Year, I'll be back.

[Johanes de Silentio]

For breaking Paul Wright's leg, Niel Berry is a legend - fact!

 

Oh, and Niel McFarlane - for being the hardest working player ever to wear a Hearts jersey - he still didnae sweat as much as Nade, mind!

 

Oh, and John Cumming - true legend!

[Eldar Hadzimehmedovic]

I think you're right - though LH will confirm.

 

Hearts side for famous 3-0 win at Tannadice in April '86

Smith, Cowie, Whittaker, S. Jardine, Berry, Levein, Colquhoun, Black, Clark, Mackay (McAdam), Robertson. Sub unused: I. Jardine.

 

Hearts side at Dens in Sep '95

 

Smith, Locke, Winnie (Jamieson), Berry, McPherson, Hamilton, Colquhoun, Mackay (Leitch), Robertson, Hagen, Lawrence. Unused sub: Nelson

 

Hearts side for 1996 Scottish Cup Final (only eight months later)

 

Rousset, Locke (Lawrence), Ritchie, McManus, McPherson, Bruno (Robertson), Johnston, Mackay, Colquhoun, Fulton, Pointon. Unused sub: Hogarth.

 

JJ, in other words, had implemented something which was well overdue.

 

All great players and wonderful Hearts names. But sentiment allowed most of them to hang around for far too long. The ironic this is if we had won the championship in 1986 that team would probably have been broken up long before it was.

 

Also, probably just a result of my apathy since 2006, but I would walk a hundred miles over broken glass to watch those 1986 and 1996 teams.

[Craigieboy]

Great thread.

 

Far too many to mention but special status has to go to;

 

Robbo

Wayne

Hartley

Pressley

Adam

Gordon

Neilson

My science teacher, Mr Bland

One of my best customers, Mrs Taylor

My old mechanic, Gerry

 

So pwoud.

 

.

[primrose]

:mad: :mad:

 

A vile, odious, slimy individual. He can never be bracketed with true legends such as Bauld and Busby.

 

 

 

Bauld no arguement, Busby was a great but cant be described as a legend to be honest. Pressley is and always will be a legend, probably in the top 3 of our greatest ever captains. Bitterness about where he went after he left us,and his subsequent behaviour after that do not diminish this in my book. The fact that certain individuls have an agenda in this area is very disturbing.

[Francis Albert]

Pressley is and always will be a legend, probably in the top 3 of our greatest ever captains.

 

Nonsense. And nothing to do with what happened after his captaincy.

[primrose]

Nonsense. And nothing to do with what happened after his captaincy.

 

 

Well my opinion obviously and here is why.

 

That guy had to conduct himself and represent the club throufgh some of the most dificult times in its moderns history, and that juts the stuff of the park, the leadership and inspiration he provided on it and the fact that he is on e of our Scottish cup winning captains.

 

Feel free to tell me why you think this is nonsense.

[The Old Tolbooth]

Possibly the most over used word in the world, however it is a term that can accurately describe some players in our 134 year history.

 

What is the criteria?

 

I'd go for what they achieved in the team, how many games played, goals scored, how they were with the fans and what they did for the brand.

 

I'll give you 5

 

Steven Pressley (we all know how i feel about him now BUT he was a legend in his time)

Robbo - obviously

Gary Mackay - games played, die hard Jambo, devoted his life to us and still sings and cheers as loud as anyone

Stephane Adam - winning goal in a cup final and a good few seasons of outstanding displays

Craig Gordon - our best ever keeper, top keeper in Britain, Hearts daft and earned us a cool ?9 million.

 

who else and why?

 

You need a serious slap for missing out JC!!!!

[Sharpie]

I am not sure you can be given legend status and then have it removed. Robin Hood is a legend, there are others, but I sort of see a legend as a term that exists for time immemorial, not just for a period . Barney Battles, Willie Bauld, Dave Mackay to me are legends, as long as there is a Hearts and even after they will be remembered. To my father Jack Harkness, Andy Black, were legends, who on here knows them because of their legendary status.

 

As has been said the title legend is too easily bestowed, remember to be a legend the person given the status must continue to have it long after your generation have passed on.

[The Old Tolbooth]

I am not sure you can be given legend status and then have it removed. Robin Hood is a legend, there are others, but I sort of see a legend as a term that exists for time immemorial, not just for a period . Barney Battles, Willie Bauld, Dave Mackay to me are legends, as long as there is a Hearts and even after they will be remembered. To my father Jack Harkness, Andy Black, were legends, who on here knows them because of their legendary status.

 

As has been said the title legend is too easily bestowed, remember to be a legend the person given the status must continue to have it long after your generation have passed on.

 

Some of us are not old enough to remember Barney Battles Bob

[Tazio]

Some of us are not old enough to remember Barney Battles Bob

 

Senior or Junior?

[Gav Aitchison]

Probably controversial as hell but we've only ever had just over a handful of genuine "legends" if the phrase is to mean anything. And John Robertson is the only one in the past 50 years.

 

Not sure you need to be quite that restrictive, but I'd say Robbo, Mackay and Henry Smith were the only genuine contenders for "legend" status in the past 30 years. Niemi, Gordon, Cameron, Hartley et al could be classed as stars, but not legends.

[Sharpie]

Some of us are not old enough to remember Barney Battles Bob

 

I was just a boy at the time.

[The Old Tolbooth]

Senior or Junior?

 

If I answer that am I putting my life in danger?

[The Old Tolbooth]

I was just a boy at the time.

 

Tazio told me you trained him

 

[Sharpie]

Tazio told me you trained him

 

 

You know you can't rely on anything he says. Any way I didn't train him I played on the same team.

[speedbump]

Bobby Walker

Tommy Walker

John Cumming

Willie Bauld

Jimmy Wardhaugh

Alfie Conn Snr

Dave Mackay

Alex Young

Donald Ford

Drew Busby

John Robertson

Gary MacKay

Craig Levein

Colin Cameron

Paul Hartley

 

 

.

 

Add Harkness and Battles and you've hit it on the head.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

This thread seems to be about the criteria rather than actual legends.

 

My criteria is based on the following: -

 

1. We don't win trophies that often - therefore anyone who is a member of a trophy winning side (League Cups don't count, nor do Tennent's Sixes) is a legend. So yes, Ibrahim Tall is a legend, as is Paul Ritchie. When people recall the teams from those days, they will mention their names.

 

2. Players who achieve a club record of some description deserve a legend epithet because they have overtaken another player and are listed in club honours (so Robbo for goals, Gary Mackay for club appearances and Elvis for international appearances qualify as legends).

 

3. Players who achieve a significant 'first' for the club in some way shape or form. In this regard, I would class the Hearts team of 1914-15 as legends for the impact they had on the wider sphere of professional football as well as the historical impact for the club.

[Hogan3012]

Legends in the modern era

 

John Robertson

John Colquhoun

Gary Mackay

Antti Niemi

Stephen Pressley (though I respect one of the reasons others will feel differently - but not the other)

 

Close but not quite

 

Craig Gordon

Colin Cameron

Craig Levein

 

Great servants to the club, but not legends

 

Thomas Flogel

Gary Naysmith

Paul Hartley

 

Did a legendary thing, but not a legend

 

Stephane Adam

Robbie Nielson

 

Cult heroes, but not legends

 

Pasquale Bruno

Scott Crabbe

Rudolph Skacel

 

Sorry but are you a hobo on the wind up?? Antti Niemi & Stephen Pressley as hearts legends ahead of Craig Levein that is a joke. No mention of Henry Smith either?? Robbie Nielson did a legendary thing, what that one tackle in the cup final?? Am trying not let my opinion of you judge this response but cumon that list is way out.

[primrose]

Sorry but are you a hobo on the wind up?? Antti Niemi & Stephen Pressley as hearts legends ahead of Craig Levein that is a joke. No mention of Henry Smith either?? Robbie Nielson did a legendary thing, what that one tackle in the cup final?? Am trying not let my opinion of you judge this response but cumon that list is way out.

 

 

Well you could always right the wrong and post you own list.

[shaun.lawson]

Sorry but are you a hobo on the wind up?? Antti Niemi & Stephen Pressley as hearts legends ahead of Craig Levein that is a joke. No mention of Henry Smith either?? Robbie Nielson did a legendary thing, what that one tackle in the cup final?? Am trying not let my opinion of you judge this response but cumon that list is way out.

 

That was a legendary thing. How many trophies have we won in the last 46 years? Two; and he played a major part in helping us win one of them!

 

I've dealt with Smith and Niemi elsewhere on the thread: the former wasn't good enough IMO; the latter maybe our only world class player of the entire modern era, whose conduct was always exemplary and manner of his leaving was too. Levein *just* missed my legends cut, but it certainly wasn't by much: he's the only one whose quality rivalled Niemi IMO, but the manner of his exit as manager and, through no fault of his own, that we arguably never saw that much of him in the prime of his career counted against him. As a manager, it always seemed to me that whereas Jefferies was loved, Levein was merely hugely respected - no?

 

It's all just opinions though mate, so keep yer hair on! Why not Elvis, by the way?

[MacDonald Jardine]

That was a legendary thing. How many trophies have we won in the last 46 years? Two; and he played a major part in helping us win one of them!

 

I've dealt with Smith and Niemi elsewhere on the thread: the former wasn't good enough IMO; the latter maybe our only world class player of the entire modern era, whose conduct was always exemplary and manner of his leaving was too. Levein *just* missed my legends cut, but it certainly wasn't by much: he's the only one whose quality rivalled Niemi IMO, but the manner of his exit as manager and, through no fault of his own, that we arguably never saw that much of him in the prime of his career counted against him. As a manager, it always seemed to me that whereas Jefferies was loved, Levein was merely hugely respected - no?

 

It's all just opinions though mate, so keep yer hair on! Why not Elvis, by the way?

 

Niemi was probably the best goalie I've seen at Hearts but he wasn't here long enough and didn't win anything so isn't a legend.

I think you had to be watching Hearts when Smith played to appreciate how good he was, and not just for a couple of years.

It's understandably the case that otherwise people just remember his remarakably long list of high profile mistakes.

[Charlie-Brown]

Jim Cruikshank & Henry Smith ARE Hearts Legends in my opinion, both were great goalies & only robbo & mackay played more games for hearts

[Buffalo Bill]

Not sure you need to be quite that restrictive, but I'd say Robbo, Mackay and Henry Smith were the only genuine contenders for "legend" status in the past 30 years. Niemi, Gordon, Cameron, Hartley et al could be classed as stars, but not legends.

 

Cameron was one of our finest players for over five years, plus he had just that little bit of 'x factor' in his character that made him a hero to the fans, as well as scoring dozens of fantastic goals from midfield.

 

But is 'time served' the only criteria?

 

Maybe I should withdraw Dave MacKay from my list then.

 

He only won the lot with Hearts.

 

 

Buffalo Bill

 

.

[shaun.lawson]

Niemi was probably the best goalie I've seen at Hearts but he wasn't here long enough and didn't win anything so isn't a legend.

I think you had to be watching Hearts when Smith played to appreciate how good he was, and not just for a couple of years.

It's understandably the case that otherwise people just remember his remarakably long list of high profile mistakes.

 

Sure. As I acknowledged to Charlie above, because I only became a Jambo in 1991, I'm aware of most of Smith's long decline - but much less of what went before it.