Dundee Utd to pay 5%

[Guest S.U.S.S.]

but will they go to heaven or hell?

 

 

Any person or individual who stand by and does nothing while young boys are being molested WILL go to hell.

 

Where they should be.

[Guest JamboRobbo]

I would ask that the GFA step in but we all know that would be a waste of time

 

Should we not be asking SCRA to step in rather than GFA?

[l/well gaz]

Utd have not thought this decision through at all.

 

1 match without Celtic fans would not have killed them and they really should have stuck by their guns.

 

Can you imagine the uproar by the 'Tic fans after being informed by their Club that they will no longer be allowed to attend Away matches at Clubs who have stood up to this ridiculous demand ?

 

Utd crumbling will have Celtic laughing all the way to the biscuit tin.

 

totally agree,but not suprised at Utd,this is the same club who allowed celtic

to bring their own dj to play music when they won the league,and let fans into the stadium after the final whistle.

 

Dundee utd and whoever,who lets the old-firm **** all over them,deserve it.

[Seymour M Hersh]

Just sell the tickets themselves. Rangers and Celtic fans would buy out their allocations even if their "boardroom" told them not to.

 

That's what I can't understand. Why the arabs didn't just say fine, take no tickets we'll sell them direct to your fans. Why because the mhanks threatened to take no tickets has this caused the arabs to fold like a house of cards in a light breeze. This is the 2nd time Thomson has caved in to sellik over an issue. Remember the TV issue a couple of years ago. He was one othe two that broke ranks and gave in to the OF.

[Rick Grimes]

Dundee Hibernian give in to Sellick.

 

Shock.

 

Caveman still thinks it's 1000000 BC.

 

Shock.

[Jambof3tornado]

Given that old filth fans are spread far and wide all clubs should follow falkirks lead and sell them direct to away fans and tell the huns and tic to go **** themselves for 5%.

 

The arabs ahve abdly let the rest of the spl down by crumbling like this.

[Guest JamboRobbo]

Given that old filth fans are spread far and wide all clubs should follow falkirks lead and sell them direct to away fans and tell the huns and tic to go **** themselves for 5%.

 

The arabs ahve abdly let the rest of the spl down by crumbling like this.

 

Why not just go one step further. Say "Fine, if you don't want the tickets, you're fans won't be able to buy any tickets then". Don't sell them any.

 

Certainly HMFC should do this - the loss of revenue would be insignificant for us.....

[Jambomo]

I'm gutted United have given in, I only hope that it is this one time and they get their act together before their next OF game. I can kind of understand, they can't afford to lose 100K BUT it will only get worse for them if they give in.

[JamboJen]

Why not just go one step further. Say "Fine, if you don't want the tickets, you're fans won't be able to buy any tickets then". Don't sell them any.

 

Certainly HMFC should do this - the loss of revenue would be insignificant for us.....

 

Totally agree. Wonder what the atmosphere would be like with no-one to sing songs at apart form the players.

[tallkenny]

Aberdeen, Hearts, Hibs all take decent crowds to Tannadice, do you think should see if they can squeeze a few quid out Utd for selling their tickets?

[Guest JamboRobbo]

Totally agree. Wonder what the atmosphere would be like with no-one to sing songs at apart form the players.

 

Might change dramatically depending what players we put out

[topcat]

These are Back of the Envelope calculations.

 

Ticket Prices for the Roseburn are ?27/?17

 

If we assume an 80%/20% split then that's an average price of ?25

 

5% commision on ?25 = ?1.25 per ticket

 

Half the roseburn Stand is about 2,000 seats

 

2,000 commisions of ?1.25 add up to ?2,500

 

Each of the Old Firm play 16 Away games against teams outside the Old Firm

 

So assuming that the Tynecastle situation is vaguely typical this whole thing is worth approximately ?40,000 p.a. each to both Celtic and Rangers.

 

That's right forty grand.

 

Celtic's last reported turnover was ?75,000,000, Rangers turnover (?60m) isn't much lower, and they're squabbling about forty grand a year each. They've probably lost ?40k of Setanta money down the back of the sofa before and not even noticed it was missing

 

Even if you accept their argument that the labours of the Old Firm ticket offices are effectively subsidising other teams, complaining about it still makes them look really, really petty.

[Therapist]

http://www.dundeeunitedfc.co.uk/index.asp?tm=2&nid=2960&cd=2008&cd1=7

 

Celtic are a disgusting, vile institution.

 

Correct.

 

Dungdeh Hibernians excuse is unbelievable. They say they can't afford ra sellik fhans to not show up. Does anyone honestly think that having to buy tickets direct from Dungdeh Hibernians would stop the monobrowed green-and-grey-hooped hordes showing up?

 

Dungdeh Hibernians are bottle merchants. Fact.

[JamboSean]

Caveman still thinks it's 1000000 BC.

 

Shock.

 

I'll take your word for it. I don't know any cavemen.

[Gambo]

I wonder how the Dundee Utd fans are reacting to them (the fans) paying ?9,000* each time to have the privelage of having the greatest fans in the world as guests for the day (x4 if they make the top6 and do the same deal with Rangers)

 

*(based on 10,000 Utd fans paying approx ?20ea for their ticket)

[Custard]

I wonder how the Dundee Utd fans are reacting

 

I hope that they are raging.

 

I would be if it was us who had caved-in the way Utd have.

[south morocco]

I hope that they are raging.

 

I would be if it was us who had caved-in the way Utd have.

 

They must be,i would be anyway,the OF are a cartel who are politely extorting money from other spl clubs with veiled threats as we have seen with the DU thing,this is the 21st century,you really have to blame the set up for allowing it to happen,as much as their brazen cheek,surely these veiled threats cannot be tolerated anymore, if they are not happy here in the spl then tattie bye to them ,lets see where they end up ,dont think the 5% levy would go down well if they were playing in manchester thats if they get that far

[murdo_b]

Why not just go one step further. Say "Fine, if you don't want the tickets, you're fans won't be able to buy any tickets then". Don't sell them any.

 

Certainly HMFC should do this - the loss of revenue would be insignificant for us.....

 

I agree I know of several people who do not go to the games when we play the OF so we could still possibly have a sell out.

 

It would be worth a try and the GIRUY factor would have me smiling for months

 

The other advantage would be without their fans it would surely give the home team more of an advantage on the pitch.

[Ben Dover]

Dundee Utd should have told them to stick it, then undertaken a local marketing campaign to get the own fans along, 2 for 1's, cheap kids tickets, whatever it took to fill as much of the ground as possible. Add that to the 'local' Celtic element and the difference would have been nowhere near the ?100k loss.

 

Unless teams stand up to these bullies, their going to carry on taking your dinner money.

 

My concern is that if the OF get enough support (all be it grudged), it will get passed as an SPL resolution at some point in the future anyway.

 

As an earlier poster said wtf are the SPL saying about it? Hee-haw.

 

 

I sent the SPL an e-mail asking if they had any comment ?............talk

about a brief response !

 

 

XXXX,

 

 

Thanks for your e-mail.

 

We have no comment to make as ticketing is a matter for the clubs.

 

Kind regards

 

 

 

XXXXX

 

Phew.....good to know the wellbeing of the game is safe in their hands

[Saint Jambo]

I sent the SPL an e-mail asking if they had any comment ?............talk

about a brief response !

 

 

XXXX,

 

 

Thanks for your e-mail.

 

We have no comment to make as ticketing is a matter for the clubs.

 

Kind regards

 

 

 

XXXXX

 

Phew.....good to know the wellbeing of the game is safe in their hands

 

 

I'm 100% confident that the SPL are merely waiting until this happens for the first time. As soon as the rules have actually been broken and one of the OF have with held some of the money the SPL will come down on them like a ton of bricks. Regardless of any private agreement between two clubs, they will be in breach of the SPL rules and they will not be let off the hook.

[Gambo]

 

 

We have no comment to make as ticketing is a matter for the clubs.

 

Kind regards

 

 

 

 

Brilliant reply from the SFA (i would send a copy to Hearts), i would inform the old-firm that they can have their 5% but 5% takings from zero flippin tickets = zero fans and zero pounds.

 

Cheers SFA.

[Blackdog35]

We should make the price for the seat itself the same for both home and away fans, then charge away fans the 5% Old Firm admin fee on top.

 

If challenged Hearts could argue that they have to pass this charge on, otherwise they would end up with less money per seat from Old Firm fans than Hearts fans in equivalent seating.

 

You can't charge Home and Away fans different ticket prices which is what that would effectively be if a different admin price was charged.

[Blackdog35]

I wonder how the Dundee Utd fans are reacting to them (the fans) paying ?9,000* each time to have the privelage of having the greatest fans in the world as guests for the day (x4 if they make the top6 and do the same deal with Rangers)

 

*(based on 10,000 Utd fans paying approx ?20ea for their ticket)

 

When did Dundee Utd every have 10,000 fans at any home game? I take it you are basing this 10,000 as a total of Utd fans over 4 home matches with the OF which would probably be about right.

[Drylaw Hearts]

Brilliant reply from the SFA (i would send a copy to Hearts), i would inform the old-firm that they can have their 5% but 5% takings from zero flippin tickets = zero fans and zero pounds.

 

Cheers SFA.

 

SPL.

[RENE]

Glad to see Falkirk haven't given in to the Huns.

 

They say they have sold all the away tickets for their game against Rangers.

For example Grangemouth Rangers Supporters Club would normally only get around six or seven tickets now they have taken 33.

Surely if this was multiplied by all the OF supporters clubs around the east of the country the non OF clubs would sell their away tickets no bother.

[Tott]

Doesbnt surprise with the Dundee bawbags giving into the weegie scam.

As for Falkirk,they dont have many away tickets to sell anyway .

How many more years will this hick town get away with having a stadium thats nowhere near spl standards.

[Ben Dover]

Glad to see Falkirk haven't given in to the Huns.

 

They say they have sold all the away tickets for their game against Rangers.

For example Grangemouth Rangers Supporters Club would normally only get around six or seven tickets now they have taken 33.

Surely if this was multiplied by all the OF supporters clubs around the east of the country the non OF clubs would sell their away tickets no bother.

 

Just what are the OF up to here ?

I've obviously no idea how Falkirk went about it but there is clearly a healthy local market out there for OF matches and supporters clubs who previously got only a handfull may have snapped up loads if it's first come first served ?

The RFC supporters rep. will be raging if this becomes the norm so just WTF is going on

[Professor.Arturo]

I sent the SPL an e-mail asking if they had any comment ?............talk

about a brief response !

 

 

XXXX,

 

 

Thanks for your e-mail.

 

We have no comment to make as ticketing is a matter for the clubs.

 

Kind regards

 

 

 

XXXXX

 

Phew.....good to know the wellbeing of the game is safe in their hands

 

At least the SPL were nice enough to include all those kisses in their reply

[Guest JamboRobbo]

Maybe I'm giving Utd too much credit here, but I believe that it's only when Celtic actually deduct the 5% from Utd's ticket money, they'll have breached SPL rules.

 

At that point in time, perhaps we'll see the 10 clubs use the SPL rules to hit back.

 

A two pronged attack would certainly hit the OF. Falkirk hit them one way by selling the tickets themselves, ****ing of the OF supporters groups. They Utd hitting Celtic the other way, but using SPL rules to prevent Celtic deducting money.

 

Then Hearts can come in with the final blow. Just tell them "Fine, you don't want any tickets, you don't get any tickets." No OF **** in our ground. Job done.

[Gambo]

Maybe I'm giving Utd too much credit here, but I believe that it's only when Celtic actually deduct the 5% from Utd's ticket money, they'll have breached SPL rules.

 

At that point in time, perhaps we'll see the 10 clubs use the SPL rules to hit back.

 

A two pronged attack would certainly hit the OF. Falkirk hit them one way by selling the tickets themselves, ****ing of the OF supporters groups. They Utd hitting Celtic the other way, but using SPL rules to prevent Celtic deducting money.

 

Then Hearts can come in with the final blow. Just tell them "Fine, you don't want any tickets, you don't get any tickets." No OF **** in our ground. Job done.

 

DUFC have openly said on their own website that they have agreed and accepted that Celtic will be deducting 5% for admin costs. I don't know if Utd puting something in writing (an agreement with another club over ticketing issues) as they have done on their website would superscede any SPL rule.

 

Utd can stew imo.

[Guest JamboRobbo]

Utd can stew imo.

 

Exactly the attitude that allows the OF to bully each of the other teams. If Utd have just caved in, do you think they wanted to, or do you think they were bullied into it cause they are being held to ransom?

 

The only way this will be defeated is by the teams working together, not by condemning the first team that gets bullied into something they don't want to do.

 

And look at this comment from Utd, admittedly last week. Just made me think maybe they are waiting for their moment.

 

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/2008/07/23/spl-sides-revolt-against-old-firm-ticket-commission-plans-86908-20662710/

 

Clubs are not allowed to deduct ticket money from each other so it is not a formal SPL matter - yet.

[Gambo]

Exactly the attitude that allows the OF to bully other teams.

 

 

Utd are the ones who are allowing the old-firm to bully them. Other SPL teams had a backbone and took a stance against the old-firm, Utd caved in and are taking the bully boys right up the a..............

 

Utd, if they had stood firm with the other teams, would have been in a better place to stand up to the bully boys, now they have 'broke rank' it will make it for other teams to hold firm, in fact i now expect M'well and Killie to follow suit.

 

They can stew in their own keek.

 

Celtic TOLD United what to do, Utd have replied by basically saying 'how high'.

[Guest JamboRobbo]

Utd are the ones who are allowing the old-firm to bully them. Other SPL teams had a backbone and took a stance against the old-firm,

 

Which teams? Only team who've done anything so far are Falkirk. Which makes one team.

 

Watch out Gambo will be along in a minute to pick you up for "making stuff up to support your argument".

[Gambo]

The only way this will be defeated is by the teams working together, not by condemning the first team that gets bullied into something they don't want to do.

 

 

 

Correct, teams working TOGETHER, so why should we get behind a team who broke rank.

 

What was to stop Utd doing what other teams have proposed and sell the tickets themselves? Utd talk about potentially losing ?100k, i think someone aint had their thinking caps on when they bent over and dropped their trousers to Celtic...................spoiled goods now, they can stew in their own mess and have fun with their Celtic guests(that Utd fans will have made a contribution to having the privelage of having them in their stadium).

[Gambo]

Which teams? Only team who've done anything so far are Falkirk. Which makes one team.

 

Watch out Gambo will be along in a minute to pick you up for "making stuff up to support your argument".

 

Have we not publically stated on our website that we have replied back basically telling them where to shove their 5%?

 

Hearts, Falkirk = teamS.

[Guest JamboRobbo]

Correct, teams working TOGETHER, so why should we get behind a team who broke rank.

 

What was to stop Utd doing what other teams have proposed and sell the tickets themselves?

 

Who knows. You appear to actually think Utd wanted to do this, rather than they were bullied into it because they play Celtic first day of the season and they perhaps didn't find it so easy to do what Falkirk have done.

 

Divide and conquer - thats what the OF want to do. And it appears you are falling for it.

 

Utd talk about potentially losing ?100k, i think someone aint had their thinking caps on when they bent over and dropped their trousers to Celtic...................spoiled goods now, they can stew in their own mess and have fun with their Celtic guests(that Utd fans will have made a contribution to having the privelage of having them in their stadium).

 

As I said, exactly the attitude that has got us where we are today. Each club looking after itself, rather than helping and supporting each other against OF bullying.

[Saint Jambo]

You can't charge Home and Away fans different ticket prices which is what that would effectively be if a different admin price was charged.

 

Seems to me that there are 2 relevant SPL rules.

1) The away team must return 100% of money from ticket sales to the home team.

2) The home team must charge the same for away fans as home fans.

 

As soon as the OF break rule 1 and the SPL take no action, I see no reason that the other 10 teams shouldn't break rule 2. This should be accompanied by a statement that they apologise to the OF fans that they have had to take this step, but will continue until the OF agree to comply with SPL rules.

 

The OF 'win', the OF fans lose.

[Guest JamboRobbo]

Have we not publically stated on our website that we have replied back basically telling them where to shove their 5%?

 

Hearts, Falkirk = teamS.

 

As did Utd till it came to the crunch. Yet you're condemning them for being bullied. Unbelievable.

[Nookie Bear]

Who knows. You appear to actually think Utd wanted to do this, rather than they were bullied into it because they play Celtic first day of the season and they perhaps didn't find it so easy to do what Falkirk have done.

 

Divide and conquer - thats what the OF want to do. And it appears you are falling for it.

 

 

 

As I said, exactly the attitude that has got us where we are today. Each club looking after itself, rather than helping and supporting each other against OF bullying.

 

I don't understand your argument. DUFC are the ones who broke ranks - they should have followed Falkirk's stance, and done it loudly and publicly. It would then have been up to the other teams to stand firm.

 

So should we now just capitulate so we can 'stand firm' with DUFC by taking it up the .... from the old firm?? That's not supporting each other, that's huddling together on the deck of the Titanic.

[Gambo]

 

As I said, exactly the attitude that has got us where we are today. Each club looking after itself, rather than helping and supporting each other against OF bullying.

 

As has been pointed out, other teams (Hearts and Falkirk) have told them where to stick the 5% , Aberdeen and Hibs are allegedly thinking of doing similar, why could Utd not have stuck with us and fought it. They decided (as is their right) to jump into bed with Celtic instead.

 

I don't know how we can fight together when one team jumps in with the opposition.

 

If Utd want to stand back and let others fight their corner then stuff them. Better fighting from the front like Hearts and Falkirk than rolling over like Utd.

 

Utd have ALLOWED themselves to be bullied ( i personally think they have taken the easy option and cuddled up beside Celtic), Falkirk ( a smaller club imo ) stood up to the bullies very easily.

 

Would it be easier to fight this if all non old-firm clubs stuck together, or do you think it will be easier now one has jumped ship. Now, imo, that one club has jumped ship it will make it easier for others to do the same, and as you have said the old-firm have succeeded in conquering and dividing, all because one club broke rank IMO.

 

A lot easier to fight TOGETHER from the same camp IMO.

[Nookie Bear]

As did Utd till it came to the crunch. Yet you're condemning them for being bullied. Unbelievable.

 

Yes, they should be condemned. Sorry, but they may have their reasons but they capitulated.

 

If they felt Celtic were bullying them, why did they not report this?

 

How exactly did Celtic bully them, do you reckon? Threaten to cut DUFC's away allocation at Parkhead? Pointless.

 

At the end of the day, if EVERY SPL team had stood firm, the ones to suffer would have been the thousands of old firm members who are usually guaranteed a few away games. THEY would have been the ones who kicked up a stink with their clubs and THEY would have forced a climb-down.

 

All DUFC have done is let us down.

[1874robbo]

I think the big picture here is that the old firm can't afford anymore bad publicity over trouble or sectarian singing from their fans.

If they allow the home team to sell all the tickets and there is any trouble or sectarian singing Celtic and Rangers can just sit back and say"You can't blame us,we never sold the tickets",this is why i believe they are going down this route.

[Guest JamboRobbo]

As has been pointed out, other teams Hearts and Falkirk) have told them where to stick the 5% , Aberdeen and Hibs are allegedly thinking of doing similar, why could Utd not have stuck with us and fought it.

 

We're on to allegedlys to support you're argument now. Gambo will be along in a minute to pick you up on that/

 

They decided (as is their right) to jump into bed with Celtic instead.

 

I don't know how we can fight together when one team jumps in with the opposition.

 

I see it as Utd have been bullied into this for one game, rather than "jumping into bed with Celtic". They say as much in there statement - they're is no way Utd are happy with this as you are trying to imply.

 

Dundee United has today advised Celtic FC that it has been left with no choice but to accept the imposition of new charges in respect of ticket sales for the forthcoming fixture between the two clubs at Tannadice on 17 August. However' date=' Celtic will receive a reduced number of tickets to distribute, with an increased number of away tickets being made available for purchase at Tannadice.

 

A club spokesman said, “[b']We are very disappointed[/b] at the way this matter has been conducted from the start, with no attempt at discussion or negotiation. Having looked at all the practical options available to us, we have reluctantly accepted the new arrangements.

 

Sounds to me like a team that is unhappy at being bullied, rather than one quick to "jump into bed" as you tried to imply.

 

Loaded wording and exagerating to support you're argument eh. Gambo will be along in a minute to pick you up for that.

 

 

If Utd want to stand back and let others fight their corner then stuff them. Better fighting from the front like Hearts and Falkirk than rolling over like Utd.

 

Utd have ALLOWED themselves to be bullied ( i personally think they have taken the easy option and cuddled up beside Celtic), Falkirk ( a smaller club imo ) stood up to the bullies very easily.

 

Would it be easier to fight this if all non old-firm clubs stuck together, or do you think it will be easier now one has jumped ship.

 

I will wait and see what unfolds over the coming weeks, rather than rushing to instantly condemn a club that has been bullied into something by the OF.

[Gambo]

. You appear to actually think Utd wanted to do this, rather than they were bullied into it because they play Celtic first day of the season and they perhaps didn't find it so easy to do what Falkirk have done.

 

 

You appear to think Utd didn't have any other choices..........they did, but THEY CHOSE to take the cuddle up to Celtic option. If they didn't WANT to do it they could have done similar to Falkirk and sold direct to Celtic fans.

[Guest JamboRobbo]

Yes, they should be condemned. Sorry, but they may have their reasons but they capitulated.

 

If they felt Celtic were bullying them, why did they not report this?

 

How exactly did Celtic bully them, do you reckon? Threaten to cut DUFC's away allocation at Parkhead? Pointless.

 

Did you bother to read the statement on their website?

 

At the end of the day, if EVERY SPL team had stood firm, the ones to suffer would have been the thousands of old firm members who are usually guaranteed a few away games. THEY would have been the ones who kicked up a stink with their clubs and THEY would have forced a climb-down.

 

All DUFC have done is let us down.

 

I think a lot of people on this thread are jumping to conclusions based on Utd being forced to back down on this occasion.

 

I shall wait and see what unfolds before condemning anyone.

[Guest JamboRobbo]

You appear to think Utd didn't have any other choices..........they did, but THEY CHOSE to take the cuddle up to Celtic option. If they didn't WANT to do it they could have done similar to Falkirk and sold direct to Celtic fans.

 

Gambo will be along in a minute to ask you for proof of this cuddling up to Celtic which you keep making up to support you're argument.

[Nookie Bear]

Did you bother to read the statement on their website?

 

 

 

I think a lot of people on this thread are jumping to conclusions based on Utd being forced to back down on this occasion.

 

I shall wait and see what unfolds before condemning anyone.

 

Yep and it seems to me they are blowing a lot of hot air saying they were forced into it but were still very quick to capitulate.

 

How exactly were they bullied into it? Why are some clubs so nervous about exposing the way the old firm work?

[Nookie Bear]

Gambo will be along in a minute to ask you for proof of this cuddling up to Celtic which you keep making up to support you're argument.

 

Stop wasting my time with this nonsense and stick to the point.

[1874robbo]

How about JR and Gambo meet up and have a good fight and hope that it will put an end to this childish bickering that goes on in most threads.

[Gambo]

We're on to allegedlys to support you're argument now. Gambo will be along in a minute to pick you up on that/

 

Arguement was supported with Hearts and Falkirk.

 

I see it as Utd have been bullied into this for one game, rather than "jumping into bed with Celtic". They say as much in there statement - they're is no way Utd are happy with this as you are trying to imply.

 

Utd were happy enough to bend over to Celtic rather than take the other option of telling them where to shove the 5% and sell tickets direct. Utd HAD choices......and we know which one they chose.

 

 

 

Sounds to me like a team that is unhappy at being bullied, rather than one quick to "jump into bed" as you tried to imply. If they were that unhappy, why did they not stand up and fight it? THERE WERE other options.

 

 

I will wait and see what unfolds over the coming weeks, rather than rushing to instantly condemn a club that has been bullied into something by the OF. Allowed themselves to be bullied very easily is how i would put it.

 

.