Hearts will spend more on players

[Wee Mikey]

6 hours ago, Sooks said:

I 8 being greedy but sometimes you just have to say “ when in Hamilton “

 

I well remember being in Hamilton a couple.of times for away matches, am co-incidentally pasing through right now, and was wondering if you'd been here before.

[Thunder and Lightning]

21 minutes ago, Wee Mikey said:

 

I well remember being in Hamilton a couple.of times for away matches, am co-incidentally pasing through right now, and was wondering if you'd been here before.

Sooks, go outside? 😂 

 

Likely. 

[Bazzas right boot]

8 hours ago, Ex member of the SaS said:

If we don't fill obvious gaps in our team this summer then the board should step down.

 

Go higher, We should sack the owners....

[Carter]

8 hours ago, Bongo 1874 said:

Wage structure increase,there's maybe 1 or 2 players worth paying a fee for,the rest we could get on pre contracts.

 

Smart business.

 

My advice if you can secure a player of Armstrongs quality and you have just a half decent striker,you will comfortably secure 3rd most seasons.

 

30 appearances, 6 goals, 10 assists.

 

You sign a solid central midfield player that is a leader.

 

The potential is huge for this club.

I'm not sure there's much scope to go far beyond the current level of £15M wage bill. I suspect they were expecting group stage football this season and pushed the boat out a bit under RN. 

[millerjames398]

4 hours ago, Watt-Zeefuik said:

In 10 years it's going to be, "if they don't quit burning the edges of the kebab pies to a dark brown the board should resign."

Thats old news, the pies got it tight a few yrs ago😂

[GinRummy]

Barry Anderson is a horrible hun welt. Depsite that, I’m not sure how anybody can view the interview/article as anything other than completely positive. 

[Sooks]

1 hour ago, Thunder and Lightning said:

Sooks, go outside? 😂 

 

Likely. 

Hiya sparkles . You all good down there 

[Carter]

3 hours ago, kingantti1874 said:

well just to set expectations we probably won’t make much headway in Europe.

 

even clubs I’d argue are smaller than hearts typically have far higher budgets on account of Scotland being an absolute diddy league financially.

 

the board have responsibly made more funds available than at any other point in our history’s. The fact is that is unlikely to be enough to compete effectively in Europe. 

You make a really valid point. It's incredibly difficult for any club in Scotland outside the gruesome to go about growing their income within the parameters of something that's been deliberately cultivated to suppress the very concept. 

 

Look at Bodo/Glimt. A much smaller club than us yet successive seasons of group stage European football have seen them not only achieve decent revenue from player trading, they've also spent more than €2M on transfer fees to acquire individual players. 

 

What other league in Europe has the four of the six largest clubs having their record transfer fee record dating back 20+ years in some cases. It's an absolute farce and a damnation of those who've wilfully suppressed progression of the game in Scotland. Utterly ****ing shameful. 

[Watt-Zeefuik]

These numbers are always partially guesses but it's important to note that as we slowly start to push up into the £12-15m range in terms of wage bill, by these estimates we're actually on bigger wages than some of the lower teams in the "Big 5" European leagues. Just on wages alone we'd have a better than average shot of staying in La Liga.

 

https://fbref.com/en/comps/Big5/wages/Big-5-European-Leagues-Wages

 

I'm frankly still dubious, but everything I can find about PSV Eindhoven's wage bill has it at around £21-22m/year, and with that they're undefeated in Eridivisie and qualified for the knockout rounds of the CL.

 

https://salarysport.com/football/eredivisie/psv-eindhoven/

 

I have to believe that PSV number is net wages rather than gross, but the top link insists the wages are gross.

 

Folk will seize that and say we should be able to achieve similar levels, and I'll just say that having those wages for one year won't get you there, but stability of that wage bill year over year, combined with player trading (which becomes the ability to spend money on player fees) should allow us to improve year over year in Europe and make a decent accounting of ourselves.

[Pasquale for King]

Good news, a top quality CH, RB, MF and striker on the shopping list. 

[Thunder and Lightning]

1 hour ago, Sooks said:

Hiya sparkles . You all good down there 

All good mate. How's your mums basement? 

[johnking123]

9 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Good news, a top quality CH, RB, MF and striker on the shopping list. 

Need another solid CB like Kent.  Think we will play 2 at the back most games next season.

[Sooks]

15 minutes ago, Thunder and Lightning said:

All good mate. How's your mums basement? 

 

It is the one year anniversary of her death on Friday . She did not have a basement 

 

Edited March 20 by Sooks

[OTT]

If you were Shankland and seriously considering staying, then this is what you would need to be hearing (and seeing) before signing. 

 

At his age, you want to be seeing something more from your teammates. Frankly, with the exception of Gordon, Zander & Kent, I think there is a lot of work needed to improve the squad sufficiently. Not saying the rest aren't up to scratch - Cochrane, Kingsley, Devlin, Beni all good players too, but Shankland is streets ahead of the rest of our attackers and he needs someone to help shoulder the attacks. 

 

Getting in Danny Armstrong or Luke McCowan would be a solid step forward IMO

 

Zander

New RB Kent Rowles Kingsley

Devlin Hoff

Dhanda

Armstrong Shankland Forrest

 

Would say that would be a decent team. Not thrilled at a CDM duo of Devlin and Hoff though 😕 Would like Jeando Fuchs if Beni goes. 

[Hectormasson]

2 hours ago, Carter said:

You make a really valid point. It's incredibly difficult for any club in Scotland outside the gruesome to go about growing their income within the parameters of something that's been deliberately cultivated to suppress the very concept. 

 

Look at Bodo/Glimt. A much smaller club than us yet successive seasons of group stage European football have seen them not only achieve decent revenue from player trading, they've also spent more than €2M on transfer fees to acquire individual players. 

 

What other league in Europe has the four of the six largest clubs having their record transfer fee record dating back 20+ years in some cases. It's an absolute farce and a damnation of those who've wilfully suppressed progression of the game in Scotland. Utterly ****ing shameful. 

totally.......

[johnking123]

Zander

New RB Kent new CB Kingsley

New Cm Hoff

Dhanda

Armstrong New ST Vargas 

 

I like Rowles,  but feel we need more solid in a 2. 

[Chimp]

10 hours ago, OTT said:

If you were Shankland and seriously considering staying, then this is what you would need to be hearing (and seeing) before signing. 

 

At his age, you want to be seeing something more from your teammates. Frankly, with the exception of Gordon, Zander & Kent, I think there is a lot of work needed to improve the squad sufficiently. Not saying the rest aren't up to scratch - Cochrane, Kingsley, Devlin, Beni all good players too, but Shankland is streets ahead of the rest of our attackers and he needs someone to help shoulder the attacks. 

 

Getting in Danny Armstrong or Luke McCowan would be a solid step forward IMO

 

Zander

New RB Kent Rowles Kingsley

Devlin Hoff

Dhanda

Armstrong Shankland Forrest

 

Would say that would be a decent team. Not thrilled at a CDM duo of Devlin and Hoff though 😕 Would like Jeando Fuchs if Beni goes. 

 

I hope for the love of God we sign him just so you no longer have to tell us how much you want him 😂

 

Decent player but certainly no Beni. Well worth taking on a free though.

[FarmerTweedy]

22 hours ago, RustyRightPeg said:

 

Say we don't cash in, and reject a large sum of money for him. He comes into pre-season unhappy, has no Euro's as motivation at the seasons end...where are we then? It would be stupid not to sell him when his stock is high.

 

As I've said before, even Spurs sold Kane when they had to. 

Spurs didn't sell Kane for pennies though! 

 

The reality is, whether selling him this summer would be stupid or sensible would largely depend on what we're offered for him, and would also be a matter of opinion rather than fact. If we're only offered a million or two, I think it would be seen as stupid in most people's eyes (including mine). If we're offered six or seven million, I think it would be (probably reluctantly) seen as sensible.

 

Somewhere in the middle would probably require taking into account the player's feelings on any offer. If it's a move he really, really wants, we do need to consider how motivated he'd be next season if we don't let him go, but if it's just a case of he'd be interested but have to think hard about it, we probably wouldn't have to worry too much about that. Whatever we chose to do in that situation would probably split opinion!

 

Obviously, it's the opinions of the board and management that would decide whether we accepted or not! All we can be sure of is that many fans would be ready to criticise the board whatever they decide to do, without waiting to see how things actually work out! 

[FarmerTweedy]

21 hours ago, RustyRightPeg said:

 

I hope not, personally. We need to improve our player trading model, and a big sale is the perfect way to do that. I was just replying to the poster saying he would turn the money down.

The poster said they'd turn down the pennies we'd be offered, i.e. they don't anticipate us getting a big money offer. 

 

FWIW, I don't think we'll get a really big offer, so I think he'll be here next season and then move on a free in summer 2025, assuming another club offers him a substantially better contract than we are, once he's free to sign elsewhere. 

[XB52]

21 hours ago, Jim Panzee said:

Try the Scottish ambulance Service.....

Said it before. SaS is what the territorials call themselves; Saturday and Sunday soldiers

[FarmerTweedy]

20 hours ago, colinmaroon said:

 

Yes, He is the answer!!! 

 

 

Swap deal with Shankland going to the Gunners, you think?

[Bazzas right boot]

12 hours ago, Thunder and Lightning said:

All good mate. How's your mums basement? 

 

He went the "mum"route, no way that will blow up in your face and make you look like a wee tadger!

 

[Americana]

11 hours ago, johnking123 said:

Zander

New RB Kent new CB Kingsley

New Cm Hoff

Dhanda

Armstrong New ST Vargas 

 

I like Rowles,  but feel we need more solid in a 2. 

 

Dont know why we would splash on a new CB with Neilson coming back on decent form and Sibbick pushing for a place. Perhaps if Sibbick is moving on.

 

People talking about millions for Shankland , with a year on his contract is unlikely . I would imagine what would be offered wouldnt amount to the value of third place so would much rather keep him on board.

[HopeDiouf]

1 minute ago, Americana said:

 

Dont know why we would splash on a new CB with Neilson coming back on decent form and Sibbick pushing for a place. Perhaps if Sibbick is moving on.

 

People talking about millions for Shankland , with a year on his contract is unlikely . I would imagine what would be offered wouldnt amount to the value of third place so would much rather keep him on board.

Hard to tell on that.  It's the defensive side of his game that needed improvement, and Particks goals against is pretty bad this season.

[Americana]

1 minute ago, HopeDiouf said:

Hard to tell on that.  It's the defensive side of his game that needed improvement, and Particks goals against is pretty bad this season.

Was interesting to see in his EN article he mentioned that he feels he has became a more physical player, seems to be held in high regard at Partick. Sink or swim when he comes back. 

[HopeDiouf]

3 minutes ago, Americana said:

Was interesting to see in his EN article he mentioned that he feels he has became a more physical player, seems to be held in high regard at Partick. Sink or swim when he comes back. 

yeah I guess he'll get pre-season and either be up to it or not.  

[Ribble]

3 minutes ago, Americana said:

Was interesting to see in his EN article he mentioned that he feels he has became a more physical player, seems to be held in high regard at Partick. Sink or swim when he comes back. 

 

Watched their game v Raith the other week and Neilson wasn't exactly standing out, I liked the look of him when he first arrived and know he was hung out to dry by having to play way more than was intended for him at that stage but I'd be concerned if we we're pinning our hopes on a player not standing out in the Championship and weren't looking elsewhere for re-inforcements 

[johnking123]

Feel sibbick has to move on. Also like rowles in a back 3. But not so much a back 4. Need another more solid CB. Think Shankland will go to the States. Still can't see him at Rangers.

[Famous 1874]

Squad overhaul will be relatively big. Imperative that we get the first eleven standard players in the door first. Then can see what gaping holes we have in the squad.

 

Priority has to be improving the level of squad by bringing in 2-3 that are above our current level or are at least on par with the likes of Shankland and Gordon. 

[RustyRightPeg]

45 minutes ago, FarmerTweedy said:

Spurs didn't sell Kane for pennies though! 

 

The reality is, whether selling him this summer would be stupid or sensible would largely depend on what we're offered for him, and would also be a matter of opinion rather than fact. If we're only offered a million or two, I think it would be seen as stupid in most people's eyes (including mine). If we're offered six or seven million, I think it would be (probably reluctantly) seen as sensible.

 

Somewhere in the middle would probably require taking into account the player's feelings on any offer. If it's a move he really, really wants, we do need to consider how motivated he'd be next season if we don't let him go, but if it's just a case of he'd be interested but have to think hard about it, we probably wouldn't have to worry too much about that. Whatever we chose to do in that situation would probably split opinion!

 

Obviously, it's the opinions of the board and management that would decide whether we accepted or not! All we can be sure of is that many fans would be ready to criticise the board whatever they decide to do, without waiting to see how things actually work out! 

 

Thing is, £93M or whatever it was for Kane is mental. £5/6M for Shankland based on the difference in finances between the two leagues, as stupid as it sounds is our equivalent of it. We go then and spend >£1M on a striker coming in the door, plus a bit more than we usually would on other positions, shows a real sign of intent.

 

With Naismith in charge, he has a better eye for a player IMO than Robbie, giving him funds to spend is less of a risk. I'm confident he'd be able to sign off on better replacements coming in. 

[Jim Panzee]

20 hours ago, Ex member of the SaS said:

Never suggested the board pick the players to sign,

 

BUT they have to make funds available for the manager. 

Never suggested the board pick the players to sign: Correct - so why suggest removing the board for something they have no control over?

 

"BUT they have to make funds available for the manager. " - er.....they have. See Shankland, Kio, Hoff and McEneff - not to mention wages to bring in other players. Are you perhaps suggesting the board have indirect responsibility for poor (or non) signings if they don't work out (because they'd hired the wrong coaches / sporting director who bring players in)??

 

 

17 hours ago, RustyRightPeg said:

 

Boy, when you hear who Yan Dhanda is you'll be in for a treat.

Edited March 21 by Jim Panzee

[awadooningorgie2]

6 minutes ago, RustyRightPeg said:

 

Thing is, £93M or whatever it was for Kane is mental. £5/6M for Shankland based on the difference in finances between the two leagues, as stupid as it sounds is our equivalent of it. We go then and spend >£1M on a striker coming in the door, plus a bit more than we usually would on other positions, shows a real sign of intent.

 

With Naismith in charge, he has a better eye for a player IMO than Robbie, giving him funds to spend is less of a risk. I'm confident he'd be able to sign off on better replacements coming in. 

 

This is a great point - Naismith hasn't got much wrong in terms of personnel and hopefully we can improve on recruitment big time.

 

The number of goals we are scoring as a team is actually low for our league position, replacing Shanks impossible but replacing his goals not so much....

[Chimp]

17 minutes ago, awadooningorgie2 said:

 

This is a great point - Naismith hasn't got much wrong in terms of personnel and hopefully we can improve on recruitment big time.

 

The number of goals we are scoring as a team is actually low for our league position, replacing Shanks impossible but replacing his goals not so much....

 

I'd argue we already have improved. Kent, Vargas and Hof all signed by Naismith and been impressive. 

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

How we replace Beni and Shankland in the summer critical. Might require a bit of thought and not necessarily like for like either

[FarmerTweedy]

19 hours ago, John Findlay said:

The SaS in his username stands for Supply and Secretariat.

I think it's more likely to be Sandwiches and Snacks!

[Thunder and Lightning]

2 hours ago, Bazzas right boot said:

 

He went the "mum"route, no way that will blow up in your face and make you look like a wee tadger!

 

From the hibs supporting queen of the tadgers. 😂 

[Sooks]

Pretty sure Jane Park is the actual Hibs supporting Queen of the tadgers

 

 

[Chimp]

48 minutes ago, Lord Beni of Gorgie said:

How we replace Beni and Shankland in the summer critical. Might require a bit of thought and not necessarily like for like either

 

Who says Shankland is leaving? I just can't see any club paying the money we want for him.

[busbyfth]

2 hours ago, Americana said:

 

Dont know why we would splash on a new CB with Neilson coming back on decent form and Sibbick pushing for a place. Perhaps if Sibbick is moving on.

 

People talking about millions for Shankland , with a year on his contract is unlikely . I would imagine what would be offered wouldnt amount to the value of third place so would much rather keep him on board.

Unfortunately - with the way that things have been going and said - both Shanks and Beni will be gone. At his age Shanks has one more new/big deal/contract left (for a striker) .....and beni has all but said that his family want to stay down south and they want him back full time.  

[busbyfth]

7 minutes ago, Chimp said:

 

Who says Shankland is leaving? I just can't see any club paying the money we want for him.

One year left on contract means we would accept between 2 and 3 mil. 2.5 being the spread bet sweet spot. A bargain 

[busbyfth]

21 minutes ago, Sooks said:

Pretty sure Jane Park is the actual Hibs supporting Queen of the tadgers

 

 

Aye and she does your moniker time and time again. 

[Bazzas right boot]

46 minutes ago, FarmerTweedy said:

I think it's more likely to be Sandwiches and Snacks!

 

Sassy and Sexy?

 

 

[Sooks]

13 minutes ago, busbyfth said:

Aye and she does your moniker time and time again. 

You leave my Monica out of this 

[Chimp]

15 minutes ago, busbyfth said:

One year left on contract means we would accept between 2 and 3 mil. 2.5 being the spread bet sweet spot. A bargain 

 

That doesn't mean that at all. Hearts haven't said they would accept anything like that and we aren't in a position where we need to sell. 

[OTT]

5 hours ago, Chimp said:

 

I hope for the love of God we sign him just so you no longer have to tell us how much you want him 😂

 

Decent player but certainly no Beni. Well worth taking on a free though.

 

He just seems an objectively perfect signing  

 

Like, I know I'm right  

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

2 hours ago, Chimp said:

 

Who says Shankland is leaving? I just can't see any club paying the money we want for him.

He will eventually, and right now I would wager it will be in the summer, just my hunch. Hope he stays but not burying my head in the sand

[Smithian]

18 hours ago, Watt-Zeefuik said:

These numbers are always partially guesses but it's important to note that as we slowly start to push up into the £12-15m range in terms of wage bill, by these estimates we're actually on bigger wages than some of the lower teams in the "Big 5" European leagues. Just on wages alone we'd have a better than average shot of staying in La Liga.

 

https://fbref.com/en/comps/Big5/wages/Big-5-European-Leagues-Wages

 

I'm frankly still dubious, but everything I can find about PSV Eindhoven's wage bill has it at around £21-22m/year, and with that they're undefeated in Eridivisie and qualified for the knockout rounds of the CL.

 

https://salarysport.com/football/eredivisie/psv-eindhoven/

 

I have to believe that PSV number is net wages rather than gross, but the top link insists the wages are gross.

 

Folk will seize that and say we should be able to achieve similar levels, and I'll just say that having those wages for one year won't get you there, but stability of that wage bill year over year, combined with player trading (which becomes the ability to spend money on player fees) should allow us to improve year over year in Europe and make a decent accounting of ourselves.

Off the top of my USMNT supporting head, PSV dropped 10 million in a transfer for Ricardo Pepi last summer and they have a 12 million option to buy on Malik Tillman that they may pick up. And neither of them are every match starters. PSV is on a different financial level than Hearts. Go look at Eredivisie TV deal. I just looked and it seems like its single year fee is comparable to Scotland's .... over the entire four year contract.

 

Budge has done brilliantly for Hearts. There are some improvements to be made financially by possibly expanding the stadium and further hospitality options, but I'm not sure either of those would be financial "game changers." And since Hearts can't single handedly fix the TV deal, our path has to be finding unfinished players, improving them, and maximizing their returns. Hearts have been rubbish at that over the past decade compared to even Hibs and Aberdeen. 

 

The only problem with that "buy young players an sell them high" is every club on this blue planet outside of a half dozen or so clubs in places like Manchester, Madrid, and Paris is trying to do the same thing. It isn't easy. You have to be clear eyed and unsentimental if the *right* offers come in for players like Shankland and Cochrane. And you have to be able to develop your own talent. I've been really pleased with Hearts improvements in keeping academy players. This club is doing all the right things off and on the pitch, and I hope eventually you start seeing some real positive returns in the transfer column, especially as the Scotland coefficient makes league stage football not a given.

[kingantti1874]

34 minutes ago, Lord Beni of Gorgie said:

He will eventually, and right now I would wager it will be in the summer, just my hunch. Hope he stays but not burying my head in the sand

I think if he sees out his contract he stays with hearts till he’s 35. 

[Watt-Zeefuik]

4 minutes ago, Smithian said:

Off the top of my USMNT supporting head, PSV dropped 10 million in a transfer for Ricardo Pepi last summer and they have a 12 million option to buy on Malik Tillman that they may pick up. And neither of them are every match starters. PSV is on a different financial level than Hearts. Go look at Eredivisie TV deal. I just looked and it seems like its single year fee is comparable to Scotland's .... over the entire four year contract.

 

Budge has done brilliantly for Hearts. There are some improvements to be made financially by possibly expanding the stadium and further hospitality options, but I'm not sure either of those would be financial "game changers." And since Hearts can't single handedly fix the TV deal, our path has to be finding unfinished players, improving them, and maximizing their returns. Hearts have been rubbish at that over the past decade compared to even Hibs and Aberdeen. 

 

The only problem with that "buy young players an sell them high" is every club on this blue planet outside of a half dozen or so clubs in places like Manchester, Madrid, and Paris is trying to do the same thing. It isn't easy. You have to be clear eyed and unsentimental if the *right* offers come in for players like Shankland and Cochrane. And you have to be able to develop your own talent. I've been really pleased with Hearts improvements in keeping academy players. This club is doing all the right things off and on the pitch, and I hope eventually you start seeing some real positive returns in the transfer column, especially as the Scotland coefficient makes league stage football not a given.

 

I don't disagree with any of this, and meant to highlight the issue of transfer fees but only ended up mentioning it in passing. Clearly we are in a different universe from PSV when it comes to paying fees, and as mentioned while I can't find evidence, my guess is that £21m is a net pay and that the gross pay equivalent would be closer to £40m. However the link above that shows how many Big 5 mid-table teams are paying roughly the same as us in gross wages, particularly in La Liga, Ligue 1, and the Bundesliga.

 

The thrust of my post though was that our wage bills are at a level where it's entirely reasonable for us to start to be able to compete at the Conf league and possibly even Europa groups level without embarrassing ourselves. We've had two straight years getting pretty brutal draws, one where the eventual runner-up was the second seed and second-place finisher in our group, another where our playoff round opponent just eased comfortably into the quarterfinals.

 

It shouldn't be a controversial statement that our player trading revenue hasn't been up to where it could be, as we've been easily outdone on that front by Hibs and Aberdeen in recent times, despite having emphatically better squads than them for the past two seasons. I do think we'll start to see that change over the next season or two, which will in turn allow us to up our spends on player fees a bit more. If we can keep making European groups, keep slowly increasing our transfer turnover, and so forth, we can get to a point where we can contemplate spending £1-2m on a transfer fee without being flabbergasted.

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

17 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

I think if he sees out his contract he stays with hearts till he’s 35. 

I would love this to be the case, free agent, he will be at Rangers, low cost option for them.