Japan Jambo Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 14 hours ago, Luckies1874 said: Went to have a look at potential dates for European games later in the year, so I could put them in the calendar and I've ended up spending wayyyyy too long looking at the new format etc But to be fair I think it's pretty exciting and it's really huge for our club to be getting involved both because of the financial windfall it brings but more importantly because it raises our profile each and every season we can achieve this. As the capital of Scotland it's important we as the 3rd largest club in a football mad country are competing every season even if it's routinely in the Conference League. There have been plenty of posts with some of this info already on the thread but just to confirm a few things and hopefully save some people the trouble of looking for themselves, I've put the likely dates of interest below. It's my strong view that 3rd is wrapped up so the only 'threat' to the below is Aberdeen winning the Scottish Cup - improbable in my view! Therefore I think this is what things will look like for Hearts: The Europa League Play off Draw is on Monday 5th August and the games are on Thursday 22nd August and Thursday 29th August. The draw for the Group stages of both the Europa League and Conference League are on Friday 30th August so whether we win or lose the Europa League Play Off round we will be involved in that. The difference between the two is that we will either face either 8 games (EL) or 6 games (CL). These will be against either 8 or 6 different teams with 4 or 3 home/away games. This is in a league format. Realistically we will be up against it to win the Europa League Play Off and that being the case we would fall into the Conference League and play 6 matches: Thursday 3rd October Thursday 24th October Thursday 7th November Thursday 28th November Thursday 12th December Thursday 19th December If we did somehow win the EL Play off we would have an additional 2 Thursday matches 23rd January 2025 30th January 2025 Thursday 19th December would also be replaced by Thursday 26th September. Of the 36 teams in the Group Stage (in both EL and CL competitions) only 12 will be eliminated leaving 24 teams so it's not out of the realms of possibility we could be competitive in hoping to avoid elimination. The top 8 teams in the League will automatically qualify for the last 16 with teams 9-24 playing in a 2 legged knock out round. These games are played: Thursday 13th February 2025 Thursday 20th February 2025 That's probably optimistic enough for now 😂 As things stand Hearts would be in Pot 5 for the Conference League draw meaning we fall seeding wise in spots 25-30 of the likely participants. One thing that immediately seems obvious is that the football calendar is once again getting squeezed tremendously. When you consider Scotland have 6 Nations League games in Sept-Nov too there are going to be very few free midweeks. A big squad required, so even more reason to be pleased with what has gone down in the last few days. Anyway, I hope this is somewhat helpful! 👍 thanks for putting the hard yards in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmyCant Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 (edited) 28 minutes ago, DalryJambo said: 100%. If part of the strategy is increased income through increased player sales there's a lot that needs to be in place. You need to be able to fund the top of the funnel and constantly be investing in 5 to 6 players each year that can be developed over time. You need to have the depth so if you lose your best left back or center half you have someone waiting to step up so the team isn’t impacted. You also need to be stable enough so that you don't need to sell anyone, hopefully maximising each players value. I'm not sure people appreciate what's happening at the club in front of their eyes. Bit by bit there are lot of building blocks being put in place. I’m not sure I see these building blocks being put in place. I see us talking the right talk but the actions aren’t there yet. Shankland for example. If he knocks on the managers door in July and says he wants to go to Rangers, he’ll be going to Rangers and we’ll take whatever paltry fee we can get. The worst thing about that is we have no one waiting to step up. For me that’s negligent. Almost exactly the same thing applies to Cochrane Clubs like us, either have to have the gems coming through the academy regularly, which to be fair there are green shoots there or we have to hit and hope every season in the mid to low transfer market jumble sale. This idea of natural progression in each position. It’s a fantasy that only happens in people heads. It’s not being done by any club at our level. It’s not realistic. Were just lucky we’ve got a fan base and a revenue level that allows us to cobble together a semi reasonable team most seasons If there is a strategic plan in the heads of the board, it’ll be about the 4th version and attempt at it since admin and there’s been very little progress towards a workable strategic plan for the football side in that whole time Edited March 26 by JimmyCant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pettigrewsstylist Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 19 minutes ago, Sooks said: With the guaranteed group stages cash far from certain in the coming seasons , it feels like the right time to be channelling benefactor and FOH money towards the playing side . Surely the next level that people are so keen to see us reach , is being able to negotiate the group stages and play offs to qualify for Europe on our own steam For me thats it. Clearly domestic cup runs are what dreams are made of but the uglies are so far ahead, cup wins become more improbable with every passing yr Trying to find a way to compete at ECL play off round and get to groups has to be aim. Quite some way off of that level currently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DalryJambo Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 10 minutes ago, JimmyCant said: I’m not sure I see these building blocks being put in place. I see us talking the right talk but the actions aren’t there yet. Shankland for example. If he knocks on the managers door in July and says he wants to go to Rangers, he’ll be going to Rangers and we’ll take whatever paltry fee we can get. The worst thing about that is we have no one waiting to step up. For me that’s negligent. Almost exactly the same thing applies to Cochrane Clubs like us, either have to have the gems coming through the academy regularly, which to be fair there are green shoots there or we have to hit and hope every season in the mid to low transfer market jumble sale. This idea of natural progression in each position. It’s a fantasy that only happens in people heads. It’s not being done by any club at our level. It’s not realistic. Were just lucky we’ve got a fan base and a revenue level that allows us to cobble together a semi reasonable team most seasons If there is a strategic plan in the heads of the board, it’ll be about the 4th version and attempt at it since admin and there’s been very little progress towards a workable strategic plan for the football side in that whole time I guess we'll need to disagree on a few points here. Ultimately every club can be held to ransome by bigger clubs. If a player wants to go to a rival club, eventually they go. We can always hold the player to thier contract and let them leave for free. I can't decide what's the best for the club. Take nothing or take an insultingly low amount? Maybe long term not taking a low amount sets some sort of marker. This isn't a fault of the club, it's the Bosman rule. The only way we can really combat this is having bigger budgets and a higher wage structure. I'd argue again this is precisely what the club are trying to achieve. I would also argue that we are building depth in the squad. We are beginning to have around 8 defenders and 8 midfielders that can all come in and perform. I don't think we'd be short if any one player left (other than Shankland). I also think upfront we have 3 or 4 players who could become our main striker if/when Shankland leaves. Vargas being the most obvious. It's worth mentioning for a team like hearts trying this approach, when you lose an 8 out of 10 player, you're not going to replace them with another 8 out of 10 player. The trick is having 3 or 4 players who average 6/7 out of ten and hope one steps up given the chance. Vargas could be that guy when Shankland leaves. Penrice could be that guy when/if Cochrane leaves. We're a bit away from having 2 to 3 players in all positions that could just step up and be an 8 out of 10 every week. I don't think the strategy has changed that much at all. Its basically invest in the infrastructure, increase revenue, increase playing budgets, increase squad quality. The tactics to deliver this might be tweaked here and there, but the strategy hasn't changed much. Its also worth noting that having a more successful team, finishing higher up the league, winning cups, regularly qualifying for Europe, winning more games in Europe and benefiting more from player sales aren't a strategy, they'd be outcomes of successful execution of the tactics aligned to delivering the strategy. You seem to have a very negative outlook. Things are positive and only getting better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmyCant Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 13 minutes ago, DalryJambo said: I guess we'll need to disagree on a few points here. Ultimately every club can be held to ransome by bigger clubs. If a player wants to go to a rival club, eventually they go. We can always hold the player to thier contract and let them leave for free. I can't decide what's the best for the club. Take nothing or take an insultingly low amount? Maybe long term not taking a low amount sets some sort of marker. This isn't a fault of the club, it's the Bosman rule. The only way we can really combat this is having bigger budgets and a higher wage structure. I'd argue again this is precisely what the club are trying to achieve. I would also argue that we are building depth in the squad. We are beginning to have around 8 defenders and 8 midfielders that can all come in and perform. I don't think we'd be short if any one player left (other than Shankland). I also think upfront we have 3 or 4 players who could become our main striker if/when Shankland leaves. Vargas being the most obvious. It's worth mentioning for a team like hearts trying this approach, when you lose an 8 out of 10 player, you're not going to replace them with another 8 out of 10 player. The trick is having 3 or 4 players who average 6/7 out of ten and hope one steps up given the chance. Vargas could be that guy when Shankland leaves. Penrice could be that guy when/if Cochrane leaves. We're a bit away from having 2 to 3 players in all positions that could just step up and be an 8 out of 10 every week. I don't think the strategy has changed that much at all. Its basically invest in the infrastructure, increase revenue, increase playing budgets, increase squad quality. The tactics to deliver this might be tweaked here and there, but the strategy hasn't changed much. Its also worth noting that having a more successful team, finishing higher up the league, winning cups, regularly qualifying for Europe, winning more games in Europe and benefiting more from player sales aren't a strategy, they'd be outcomes of successful execution of the tactics aligned to delivering the strategy. You seem to have a very negative outlook. Things are positive and only getting better. There’s a lot of positives like you said. We’re beginning to see young players getting a chance and we seem to be loosening the purse strings, which helps a lot with retention. However, you just need to look at our outgoing player trading to see where the big hole is. All of our last 4 decent outgoings have deliberately run their contract down. We got nothing for 3 of them and a pittance for the other one who’s now in the £20m plus bracket. Whilst players use clubs like that (and Shankland and Cochrane will likely do the same thing) that’s going to take some invention and some balls with contracting to fix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fozzyonthefence Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 1 minute ago, JimmyCant said: There’s a lot of positives like you said. We’re beginning to see young players getting a chance and we seem to be loosening the purse strings, which helps a lot with retention. However, you just need to look at our outgoing player trading to see where the big hole is. All of our last 4 decent outgoings have deliberately run their contract down. We got nothing for 3 of them and a pittance for the other one who’s now in the £20m plus bracket. Whilst players use clubs like that (and Shankland and Cochrane will likely do the same thing) that’s going to take some invention and some balls with contracting to fix. I’m always much more interested in keeping players and trying to have the best players on the pitch with a view to competing / winning things but also understand that player sales is an important income stream. And on that front, seeing the figures Hibs and Aberdeen especially have been able to generate over the last few seasons while we lose players of a similar or better standard is a constant frustration. This has to change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomaso Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 (edited) On 11/03/2024 at 22:22, jamborich said: Edited March 26 by Thomaso Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RENE Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 (edited) I think the board have a figure in mind for Shankland in the summer and if the Rangers don't want to pay it, then we'll be more than happy to keep him till his contract runs out. Think we'll stick to our guns regarding the price. Edited March 26 by RENE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luckies1874 Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 9 hours ago, Byyy The Light said: Really good info. Appreciated. The big thing that jumps out for me, before you went on to mention it yourself, was the number of games and the toll the travelling and playing will have on the squad. Taking part in this will be brilliant for recognition and cash but maintaining 3rd place in the league will be a monumental struggle. If we manage to compete on both fronts then we'd definitely begin to create a decent gap financially with the rest of the league. Hotel and FoH doing their bit too. Yeah, definitely think all this early activity is so we hit the ground running with next season in mind. Will give us the best opportunity to compete in the Europa Play off. Makes such a difference to the pre season plans if we can avoid earlier qualifying games and indeed means we will have played 3 league games before the first leg of the EL Play Off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daveandal Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 11 minutes ago, Luckies1874 said: Yeah, definitely think all this early activity is so we hit the ground running with next season in mind. Will give us the best opportunity to compete in the Europa Play off. Makes such a difference to the pre season plans if we can avoid earlier qualifying games and indeed means we will have played 3 league games before the first leg of the EL Play Off. I agree. Someone mentioned earlier we are Europa League level yet..... True BUT we were a baw hair away from beating Zurich and Aberdeen had a very winnable tie. A wee bit of luck and we could make it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pettigrewsstylist Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 On 26/03/2024 at 18:35, Daveandal said: I agree. Someone mentioned earlier we are Europa League level yet..... True BUT we were a baw hair away from beating Zurich and Aberdeen had a very winnable tie. A wee bit of luck and we could make it. Arguably getting Zurich in the play off round was our big slice of luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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