FarmerTweedy Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 1 hour ago, kingantti1874 said: taking st Mirren as an example. 13 points behind. 9 games left. 2 of them against celtic 2 of them against hearts 2 against killie 1 against rangers. 1 against Motherwell 1 against either hibs or Dundee. I don’t think they win anything like 5 fixtures from that list to be honest. genuinely we could lose every game from now till the end of the season and still finish 3rd. 1 more win however would seal the deal completely. hopefully it’s wrapped up formally in the next 3 games and we can use the remaining fixtures to prep for the semi, give controlled minutes to injured players and get some more minutes for the younger guys as well. If we lost every game from now till the end of the season, we'd be handing 6 points to killie and St Liedown. If either of them then took 6 points from the games between them, they'd be only one or two behind, and would most likely get what they need from their other games. So we probably need to take at least a couple more points in our games against them, or a few points from our other games. I'm very confident we'll do a lot better than that though, and I do actually think we'll be more than 15 clear by the split! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 48 minutes ago, Chuck Berry said: If Shankland hasn't been booked in the Spartans/Airdrie games then he's fine. If he gets booked in the semi, then I think he would miss the final if we got there. 19 minutes ago, HamishMcGonagall said: I think someone said on the match thread last night that previous bookings don't count once you reach the semi final. That's now the standard practice in all Cup competitions. All bookings are now scrapped for semi finals. Changed it after Roy Keane and Paul Scholes missed the European Cup final. And a few other high profile examples. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeljambo22 Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 The euro format is changing too has it not? If we do get to the group stages are we not guaranteed 8 group games? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Berry Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 12 minutes ago, Nelly Terraces said: Scroll down to Page 34 of this document: suspensions-for-players-in-mens-football-annex-c-section-4.pdf (scottishfa.co.uk) Think the important bit re Shanks is this: Accumulation of two cautionable offences in the William Hill Scottish Cup for clubs who enter the competition after Round 3 (caution totals revert to zero prior to start of semi-final rounds.) Essentially, all single yellow cards are wiped out now, but if you've already had 2 in the competition then you're suspended, hence why Shinnie is out for the Codheads. Cool, cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 1 minute ago, michaeljambo22 said: The euro format is changing too has it not? If we do get to the group stages are we not guaranteed 8 group games? Europa League. Conference League is still 6 games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Berry Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 1 minute ago, michaeljambo22 said: The euro format is changing too has it not? If we do get to the group stages are we not guaranteed 8 group games? Still 6 for the Conference League, 8 for the Europa League. All different opponents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeljambo22 Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 Take it we would still have the opportunity to qualify for the europa league? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AC Mallin_51 Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 1 minute ago, Chuck Berry said: Still 6 for the Conference League, 8 for the Europa League. All different opponents. That’d be seriously tasty, probably take some batterings but 8 games in the Europa League would see us come up against at least 1 if not 2 really big sides Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingantti1874 Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 3 minutes ago, FarmerTweedy said: If we lost every game from now till the end of the season, we'd be handing 6 points to killie and St Liedown. If either of them then took 6 points from the games between them, they'd be only one or two behind, and would most likely get what they need from their other games. So we probably need to take at least a couple more points in our games against them, or a few points from our other games. I'm very confident we'll do a lot better than that though, and I do actually think we'll be more than 15 clear by the split! so do I. Think it will be mathematically done by the split. Still I don’t think either Killie or stmirren will reach 55 points. They also have to play each other twice. 2 more wins and it will be mathematically all over by the split. IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 (edited) 3 minutes ago, michaeljambo22 said: Take it we would still have the opportunity to qualify for the europa league? Only by finishing third / Aberdeen don't win Scottish Cup Other teams play Conference League qualifiers. Edited March 12 by Mikey1874 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Berry Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 Just now, AC Mallin_51 said: That’d be seriously tasty, probably take some batterings but 8 games in the Europa League would see us come up against at least 1 if not 2 really big sides It'll be like back in 2004 when we played Ferencvaros and Schalke at home, Basel and Feyenoord away. No home/away format it's just 6 or 8 straight games against 6 or 8 different opponents. We'll also have a qualifying round, so we'll have 8 games minimum, potentially 10. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBigO Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 7 minutes ago, Chuck Berry said: Still 6 for the Conference League, 8 for the Europa League. All different opponents. Maybe over simplifying, but more teams in the Europa, does that mean slightly easier to qualify? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 2 minutes ago, TheBigO said: Maybe over simplifying, but more teams in the Europa, does that mean slightly easier to qualify? 21 more teams in Europa League. Up to 78 from 57. 32 teams from defeated Champions League qualifying games. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024–25_UEFA_Europa_League Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flimsy Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 5 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said: Only by finishing third / Aberdeen don't win Scottish Cup Other teams play Conference League qualifiers. The 4th Scottish team play in Europa League qualifying next season with a conference league fallback. Effectively would need to win 2 out of 3 ties for a group stage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBigO Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 1 minute ago, Mikey1874 said: 21 more teams in Europa League. Up to 78 from 57. 32 teams from defeated Champions League qualifying games. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024–25_UEFA_Europa_League Ah cool thanks, can't open wiki at "work". So basically there are more spots, so you MIGHT have the chance of getting an easier tie to get through. We showed we can hang and more with Rosenborg and to an extent Zurich. Even Paok we have a right scare at home but proved too much in the end especially with injuries all over the joint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section s heart Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 1 hour ago, kingantti1874 said: taking st Mirren as an example. 13 points behind. 9 games left. 2 of them against celtic 2 of them against hearts 2 against killie 1 against rangers. 1 against Motherwell 1 against either hibs or Dundee. I don’t think they win anything like 5 fixtures from that list to be honest. genuinely we could lose every game from now till the end of the season and still finish 3rd. 1 more win however would seal the deal completely. hopefully it’s wrapped up formally in the next 3 games and we can use the remaining fixtures to prep for the semi, give controlled minutes to injured players and get some more minutes for the younger guys as well. Agree chance of wrapping up 3rd by the split looks very doable, and almost certain if we beat Killie and Liedown. Be nice to get the injured guys back, and definitely some sensible use of the kids, but please can we have a better post split than we've done historically. Aware it's been difficult having OF in the 6, and generally Hibs and Aberdeen, but our record over the years isn't great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBigO Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 1 minute ago, section s heart said: Agree chance of wrapping up 3rd by the split looks very doable, and almost certain if we beat Killie and Liedown. Be nice to get the injured guys back, and definitely some sensible use of the kids, but please can we have a better post split than we've done historically. Aware it's been difficult having OF in the 6, and generally Hibs and Aberdeen, but our record over the years isn't great. Yep be brilliant without coasting to use our last few games to get Barrie, Boycie and I guess now Oda back fully sharp for next season and also maybe throw Tagawa in there, give the lad a run. Halks maybe? Not sure when everyone due back tbh....?? And as you say, more time for Tait and Denholm, plus maybe a debut or two. But then if we get past Rangers somehow, also there is the building up for the final - which could include some of the above I suppose... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boag1874 Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 37 minutes ago, Flimsy said: The 4th Scottish team play in Europa League qualifying next season with a conference league fallback. Effectively would need to win 2 out of 3 ties for a group stage. Probably yes, but as it stands the 3rd Scottish team will enter the Europa League 2nd qualifying round & the Cup winners will enter at the playoff round, the 4th placed team enter the Conference league 2nd qualifying round. If any team in the top 3 win the cup then the cup winners spot goes to 3rd, the 3rd place spot goes to 4th & the 4th place spot goes to 5th. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soonbe110 Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 1 hour ago, michaeljambo22 said: The euro format is changing too has it not? If we do get to the group stages are we not guaranteed 8 group games? Only in Europa League but not Conf league Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daveandal Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 Its tight as a badgers lady garden if Scotland will keep a guaranteed 3rd Euro group stage spot next year. Basically we need Rangers to keep winning and hope all 3 Czech teams left get humped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chillidigits Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 1 hour ago, FarmerTweedy said: If we lost every game from now till the end of the season, we'd be handing 6 points to killie and St Liedown. If either of them then took 6 points from the games between them, they'd be only one or two behind, and would most likely get what they need from their other games. So we probably need to take at least a couple more points in our games against them, or a few points from our other games. I'm very confident we'll do a lot better than that though, and I do actually think we'll be more than 15 clear by the split! Other side of the coin , we get to uncatchable in third then take foot off the gas because the mindset of players changes. We start losing games because we are not hungry enough to win them whilst other teams with something to aim for have that hunger. Even more so if we lose semi final. Sorry for negative vibes but I am used to seeing us win and I want it to carry on not surprisingly. Retaining that winning mentality in games we don't need to win is something I hope SN demands in our efforts to progress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karipidis Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 Ideal scenario is - - have 3rd wrapped up by the semi final. Need to gain 2 points on Killie and 3 points on St Mirren over the next 4 games for this to be possible. - Aberdeen lose the semi final on the Saturday to Celtic, European group stage football is confirmed giving us a bounce going into the semi final - Rangers play away on the Thursday night before the semi final and go to Extra time. I know this happened at the last Scottish Cup final but feel we would be more adequately prepared to take advantage. - Beat Rangers in the Semi Final - Beat Celtic in the Final. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBigO Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 11 minutes ago, Daveandal said: Its tight as a badgers lady garden if Scotland will keep a guaranteed 3rd Euro group stage spot next year. Basically we need Rangers to keep winning and hope all 3 Czech teams left get humped. Is that right - is there any way the Czechs all get pumped and Rangers get pumped and that works? Don't want to want Rangers to win! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 9 minutes ago, Daveandal said: Its tight as a badgers lady garden if Scotland will keep a guaranteed 3rd Euro group stage spot next year. Basically we need Rangers to keep winning and hope all 3 Czech teams left get humped. No it's pretty much guaranteed as it goes to 14th place for Europa League qualifier / Conference League group next season. The close battle with the Czechs affects automatic Champions League qualification for the league winners. It's the season after we face qualifiers for 3rd place / Scottish Cup winners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingantti1874 Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 5 minutes ago, TheBigO said: Is that right - is there any way the Czechs all get pumped and Rangers get pumped and that works? Don't want to want Rangers to win! We need rangers to do well I’m afraid. In the bright side maybe they will be distracted for the semi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBigO Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 3 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said: We need rangers to do well I’m afraid. In the bright side maybe they will be distracted for the semi Yeah, OK, I'll take it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Libertarian Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 I don't think that I could stand the stress if it were a Hearts Aberdeen final knowing that European group stage football all hinged on that one match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris5115 Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 13 minutes ago, karipidis said: Ideal scenario is - - have 3rd wrapped up by the semi final. Need to gain 2 points on Killie and 3 points on St Mirren over the next 4 games for this to be possible. - Aberdeen lose the semi final on the Saturday to Celtic, European group stage football is confirmed giving us a bounce going into the semi final - Rangers play away on the Thursday night before the semi final and go to Extra time. I know this happened at the last Scottish Cup final but feel we would be more adequately prepared to take advantage. - Beat Rangers in the Semi Final - Beat Celtic in the Final. Sounds simple enough. Get it done Jambos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daveandal Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 8 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said: No it's pretty much guaranteed as it goes to 14th place for Europa League qualifier / Conference League group next season. The close battle with the Czechs affects automatic Champions League qualification for the league winners. It's the season after we face qualifiers for 3rd place / Scottish Cup winners. I stand very much corrected. What is strange though is it looks like the countries 8 to 12 get into the Europa play off round (thus drop into the conference groups if they lose) but counties 13 to 15 go into the 3rd qualifying round so would drop into the conference play off round. So it's not as tight as I thought but it's still on the cusp... I feel dirty but Rangers going deep helps us... and ironically Celtic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky jamboa Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 2 hours ago, boag1874 said: I really really want Celtic & not just for the Euro money. All I think about when I think of playing them at Hampden is that we came so close in both 2019 & 2020. I want redemption for those results, we know we can take them this season. They'll be well pumped up after their last 2 defeats to us! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boag1874 Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 4 minutes ago, Rocky jamboa said: They'll be well pumped up after their last 2 defeats to us! Well pumped up to get well pumped Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WDJ87 Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 (edited) 6 hours ago, Rocky jamboa said: Would you prefer us to get Aberdeen in the final, with the risk of us losing c. £6m in euro money if we get beaten but a better chance of winning, or celtic, so less chance of winning the cup but guaranteed c. £6m in euro cash? I'd take Aberdeen in the final all day long! A chance to win a cup doesn't come along every day. Got asked this at work today. Celtic in the final all day long. I would be able to relax and enjoy the day more knowing we will only miss out on a cup if we lose. Edited March 12 by WDJ87 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricardo Quaresma Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 4 hours ago, FarmerTweedy said: Midweek games are usually the midweek right before the last weekend of fixtures, and this season is no different! That's a shame for Gordon, maybe he'll start for Scotland anyway Is there a reason why they stopped with the quick post-split midweek games? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FionaHmfc Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 Just want to get this sewn up as soon as possible so the European dreaming can begin. Some seriously tasty looking teams in the competitions we could come up against. Some teams in the running for the 2 competitions as it stands (obviously this will change as the season comes to an end but it’s still exciting to look at) … Bilbao, Atletico Madrid, Real Sociedad, Roma, Atalanta, Leipzig, Dortmund, Frankfurt, Tottenham, Man Utd, Nice, Marseille, Ajax, Porto, Braga. Our potential Europa league play off opponents are starting to be narrowed down as national cup finals start to be confirmed too. Union SG, Antwerp, Rapid Vienna, Red Bull Salzburg, Besiktas, Trabzonspor, Red Star Belgrade, Partizan Belgrade all in the hunt for the same spot as us in their respective countries. Exciting 🤩 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShedBoy Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 So Hearts men, and Hearts women, could both win the Scottish Cup. In our 150th year you say……………….. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobNox Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 Killie and St Mirren still to play each other twice. Two draws would be ideal for us, but even if either of them win both games, the other will be pretty much out of contention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daveandal Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 29 minutes ago, FionaHmfc said: Just want to get this sewn up as soon as possible so the European dreaming can begin. Some seriously tasty looking teams in the competitions we could come up against. Some teams in the running for the 2 competitions as it stands (obviously this will change as the season comes to an end but it’s still exciting to look at) … Bilbao, Atletico Madrid, Real Sociedad, Roma, Atalanta, Leipzig, Dortmund, Frankfurt, Tottenham, Man Utd, Nice, Marseille, Ajax, Porto, Braga. Our potential Europa league play off opponents are starting to be narrowed down as national cup finals start to be confirmed too. Union SG, Antwerp, Rapid Vienna, Red Bull Salzburg, Besiktas, Trabzonspor, Red Star Belgrade, Partizan Belgrade all in the hunt for the same spot as us in their respective countries. Exciting 🤩 I was looking at this earlier. Some massive teams kicking about. In terms the Europa League play off to early to say what will happen but for every possible Ajax there is a lower league Swiss or random Czech team still in their cup comps. Everything crossed this isn't taken away from us again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobNox Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 5 hours ago, AC Mallin_51 said: That’d be seriously tasty, probably take some batterings but 8 games in the Europa League would see us come up against at least 1 if not 2 really big sides Yeah, we'd get 2 teams from pot 1 and 2 from pot 2, so bound to be some really big games if we can make it through. Just looking at the pots for this year. Pot 1 included Liverpool, West Ham, Roma, Ajax, Villareal, Bayer Leverkusen, Atalanta and the Huns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobNox Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 11 minutes ago, ShedBoy said: So Hearts men, and Hearts women, could both win the Scottish Cup. In our 150th year you say……………….. And hopefully beat Celtic in both finals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busby8 Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 7 hours ago, **** the SPFL said: will Shinnie be missing if Shanklands okay so should Shinnie or am i missing something Punctuation maybe ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerTweedy Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 4 hours ago, Daveandal said: Its tight as a badgers lady garden if Scotland will keep a guaranteed 3rd Euro group stage spot next year. Basically we need Rangers to keep winning and hope all 3 Czech teams left get humped. Nah, we're 10th just now and if Czechia overtake us we drop to 11th (obviously)! The Europa League playoff round spots go down to 12th, and nobody else has any remotely realistic chance of catching us this season, so it'll definitely be up for grabs again next year. The year after that is when things are potentially going to go downhill on that front. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerTweedy Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 5 hours ago, Mikey1874 said: No it's pretty much guaranteed as it goes to 12th place for Europa League qualifier / Conference League group next season. The close battle with the Czechs affects automatic Champions League qualification for the league winners. It's the season after we face qualifiers for 3rd place / Scottish Cup winners. FTFY! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daveandal Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 2 minutes ago, FarmerTweedy said: Nah, we're 10th just now and if Czechia overtake us we drop to 11th (obviously)! The Europa League playoff round spots go down to 12th, and nobody else has any remotely realistic chance of catching us this season, so it'll definitely be up for grabs again next year. The year after that is when things are potentially going to go downhill on that front. Correct. I was mistaken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerTweedy Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 5 hours ago, TheBigO said: Is that right - is there any way the Czechs all get pumped and Rangers get pumped and that works? Don't want to want Rangers to win! 4 hours ago, kingantti1874 said: We need rangers to do well I’m afraid. In the bright side maybe they will be distracted for the semi We don't need rangers to do well this season to keep the Europa League playoff round spot for next season's cup winners/3rd place, but the reality is, to keep it longer term, i.e. for years and years, we do need both of the arsecheeks to do significantly better than they've been doing over the last two or three years, and we also need everyone else to be doing at least a little better in the qualifying rounds too. When you get things like Motherwell being knocked out by Irish teams and losing both the home and away legs, that's really damaging to the national coefficient. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerTweedy Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 5 hours ago, Libertarian said: I don't think that I could stand the stress if it were a Hearts Aberdeen final knowing that European group stage football all hinged on that one match. I'd be much more focused on the fact that winning the cup hinged on that one match! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerTweedy Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 3 hours ago, Ricardo Quaresma said: That's a shame for Gordon, maybe he'll start for Scotland anyway Is there a reason why they stopped with the quick post-split midweek games? No idea, it's been the last midweek for ages now, tbh, I'm only taking your word for it having been the first midweek in the past, my memory is drawing a blank on that! 🙄 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboGraham Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 I get the incentive of the European cash but goodness me it's heartbreaking that we are going down the route of prioritising that over actually winning silverware (although I do understand it). Aberdeen all the way against Celtic for me! I want the weakest team in the competition up against us in the final. Then if they beat us (or even Rangers) and actually win the Scottish Cup then grudgingly I would say fair play, they deserve their guaranteed group football. The spot actually belongs to the cup winners by design. Cash aside, I was actually pretty underwhelmed by our last experience of the conference league. It will never, ever come close to the experience of actually winning something. For me the ultimate prize is the Scottish Cup and any European benefits off the back of it simply a bonus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricardo Quaresma Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 54 minutes ago, FarmerTweedy said: No idea, it's been the last midweek for ages now, tbh, I'm only taking your word for it having been the first midweek in the past, my memory is drawing a blank on that! 🙄 Well, you can count on it, unless you think I'm some sort of arse that makes things up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karipidis Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 57 minutes ago, Ricardo Quaresma said: Well, you can count on it, unless you think I'm some sort of arse that makes things up The midweek game has been the 2nd last game of the season for a number of seasons now. Since 13/14 season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricardo Quaresma Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 13 minutes ago, karipidis said: The midweek game has been the 2nd last game of the season for a number of seasons now. Since 13/14 season. Enjoy your night 👁️ 👁️ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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