*** Official St Johnstone v Hearts Match Thread ***

[PapaShango]

3 minutes ago, May one-six said:

I never understand this line. Where do you start and stop with it? Remove Miovski's goals and Aberdeen are much worse off. Remove Kyogo's goals from Celtic and they would have failed to win the league last year. As someone else said, remove Tavernier's goals from Rangers and where would they be? Remove Frankie Kent from our defence and we become more vulnerable. 

 

Shankland is part of our team and his job is to score. This 'remove his goals' argument is very much 'If you're auntie had baws...'

We had this line the last time we finished 3rd when people said we would have lost games if it wasn't for Gordon! That's why you have these players, to do their jobs well. 

[PapaShango]

Just now, Mikey1874 said:

 

VAR didn't decide the booking, the referee did.

I seen someone say it was for dissent but no idea. I thought the ref was ok last night, just think the lines were a bit dodgy and looked onside to me. No idea why they checked the goal for as long either, was clearly onside to the naked eye when you see the lines on the pitch. I think one of the issues is the camera angles, they were terrible last night. Also expected the Cochrane handball to be given even though his arm was at his side. 

[FarmerTweedy]

12 hours ago, DesertDawg said:

It was really tight on the VAR still shot.  His knee just marginally made him offside. 

 

Surprised again to mention this but refereeing has been very good since the Hibs game at Easter Road on December 27th, six weeks ago.

 

I don't think it would have been a penalty if he'd been onside anyway, I think var would have found that the foul by McGowan was just outside the box. Would have been a red for McGowan though!

[kingantti1874]

12 minutes ago, RustyRightPeg said:

 

It's the most stupid argument ever. Remove Messi from Barca in the 10s and they won nothing. Remove Maradona from Argentina and they don't win the world cup. 

 

The most short sighted and I'll say it again stupid argument in football.

absolutely.  If every team in the league didn’t have their best players 🤣 window licking nonsense 

[kingantti1874]

7 minutes ago, FarmerTweedy said:

I don't think it would have been a penalty if he'd been onside anyway, I think var would have found that the foul by McGowan was just outside the box. Would have been a red for McGowan though!

That was dirty as **** challenge.

 

mikey Stewart saying he shouldn’t have been booked after it was proven offside. That guy is an absolute clown - play doesn’t stop when player is offside. You can be booked as a sub, the manager can be booked, you can be booked after the final whilstle. An absolute weapon of a guy.  

[Mikey1874]

3 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

That was dirty as **** challenge.

 

mikey Stewart saying he shouldn’t have been booked after it was proven offside. That guy is an absolute clown - play doesn’t stop when player is offside. You can be booked as a sub, the manager can be booked, you can be booked after the final whilstle. An absolute weapon of a guy.  

 

He got mixed up. Its not a foul if play is stopped, in this case for offside. But kicking someone is a booking any time. Ref just decided to wait for the offside check. 

[Fozzyonthefence]

56 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Just outside the box, yellow card was either for dissent or the challenge as you can’t just chop someone after a decision is made. 

Ref didn’t give a yellow card though, so he can’t give a yellow after VAR look at it.  He made a mistake like Mikey Stewart said on Sportscene.  And there was no dissent from St Johnstone - onfield decision was offside and no booking.  You can’t use VAR to decide if a player should get a yellow. 

[Fozzyonthefence]

28 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

He got mixed up. Its not a foul if play is stopped, in this case for offside. But kicking someone is a booking any time. Ref just decided to wait for the offside check. 

It was an attempted tackle not an assault.  Can’t use VAR to see if an attempted tackle is a yellow.  If he had punched him in the pus then yes, of course it would still be red even though offside. 

 

There was another incident very similar to this in one of our away games (Tagawa maybe?), an even worse tackle where the tackle would have been a red if he was onside. The VAR check showed he was offside and the defender didn’t even get a booking. 

[Shaggy2]

19 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

Ref didn’t give a yellow card though, so he can’t give a yellow after VAR look at it.  He made a mistake like Mikey Stewart said on Sportscene.  And there was no dissent from St Johnstone - onfield decision was offside and no booking.  You can’t use VAR to decide if a player should get a yellow. 

Not sure the ref made a mistake other than the timing of the card. What Gowser did deserved a yellow because you can’t just kick someone because the ball is dead and expect to get away with it. 
I reckon the ref waited to hear confirmation of the offside because it was a straight red if it wasn’t. Admittedly it was confusing but when you’re at the game and know they’re using budget VAR literally anything could be happening!

Still think the officials bottled it and there’s definitely a chance they thought yellow/offside and everyone will be happy. Audio would be interesting. 
The referee gave Hearts nothing. He also asked Fraser to leave the pitch at the nearest point (correctly but not applied consistently) and asked Cochrane to leave the field after treatment despite the offender being booked. 

[maroonsgotop]

31 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

It was an attempted tackle not an assault.  Can’t use VAR to see if an attempted tackle is a yellow.  If he had punched him in the pus then yes, of course it would still be red even though offside. 

 

There was another incident very similar to this in one of our away games (Tagawa maybe?), an even worse tackle where the tackle would have been a red if he was onside. The VAR check showed he was offside and the defender didn’t even get a booking. 

away game at Killie by their goalie

[Shaggy2]

43 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

It was an attempted tackle not an assault.  Can’t use VAR to see if an attempted tackle is a yellow.  If he had punched him in the pus then yes, of course it would still be red even though offside. 

 

There was another incident very similar to this in one of our away games (Tagawa maybe?), an even worse tackle where the tackle would have been a red if he was onside. The VAR check showed he was offside and the defender didn’t even get a booking. 

It was a deliberate kick to stop what he thought was a goalscoring opportunity. It is a booking if the referee considers it to be worthy of a booking whether the ball is dead or not. Source: my refereeing course from admittedly pre-VAR years but that hasn’t changed.

The other incident you referred to was Kilmarnock’s goalkeeper (Dennis) on Oda. Somehow the referee ONLY deemed that a yellow card offence and that was in your words, an assault, with studs to the thigh. 
Although Kenny Miller wasn’t sure if he made contact! 🤦‍♂️

Edited February 8 by Shaggy2

[Fozzyonthefence]

38 minutes ago, maroonsgotop said:

away game at Killie by their goalie

That was worse than last night and no card given.

[Shaggy2]

9 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

That was worse than last night and no card given.

He was yellow carded but it should have been red according to every pundit bar Kenny Miller (who never saw the contact🤓) and Michael Stewart who thinks that after the whistle goes a Royal Rumble would be completely acceptable because the ball is dead. Pair of arseholes. 

Edited February 8 by Shaggy2

[Fozzyonthefence]

29 minutes ago, Shaggy2 said:

It was a deliberate kick to stop what he thought was a goalscoring opportunity. It is a booking if the referee considers it to be worthy of a booking whether the ball is dead or not. Source: my refereeing course from admittedly pre-VAR years but that hasn’t changed.

The other incident you referred to was Kilmarnock’s goalkeeper (Dennis) on Oda. Somehow the referee ONLY deemed that a yellow card offence and that was in your words, an assault, with studs to the thigh. 
Although Kenny Miller wasn’t sure if he made contact! 🤦‍♂️

Oh was the keeper one a yellow?  Apologies, my memory was telling me he got no booking.  
 

I kinda agree about last night except it wasn’t a deliberate kick, it was a slide tackle but no contact on the ball.  A clear red if onside. My issue with the booking is that the ref gave no card at the time and only after VAR looks at it (was VAR only looking at the offside, not sure?) he then gives a yellow.  Pretty sure I’ve never seen a ref do that before but maybe he is within his rights to wait for the offside decision first?  

[Fozzyonthefence]

1 minute ago, Shaggy2 said:

He was yellow carded but it should have been red according to every pundit bar Kenny Miller (who never saw the contact🤓) and Michael Stewart who thinks that after the whistle goes a Royal Rumble would be completely acceptable because the ball is dead. Pair of arseholes. 

Difference between an attempted tackle and a Royal Rumble though.  Similar to when a corner is about to be taken the ball isn’t deemed to be in play so if a defender decides to punch a forward in the coupon it would be a red card but can’t be a penalty.

[Shaggy2]

1 minute ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

Oh was the keeper one a yellow?  Apologies, my memory was telling me he got no booking.  
 

I kinda agree about last night except it wasn’t a deliberate kick, it was a slide tackle but no contact on the ball.  A clear red if onside. My issue with the booking is that the ref gave no card at the time and only after VAR looks at it (was VAR only looking at the offside, not sure?) he then gives a yellow.  Pretty sure I’ve never seen a ref do that before but maybe he is within his rights to wait for the offside decision first?  

It’s all so unclear, especially when you’re in the stadium. I think the ref had on his head it’s either onside and red or offside and yellow and waited til the VAR caravan had confirmed the offside before flashing the yellow. I think he should have clearly confirmed the offside before making it clear that Gowser was being booked for the tackle but obviously I have no idea how they’re told to deal with that scenario. 

[Shaggy2]

1 minute ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

Difference between an attempted tackle and a Royal Rumble though.  Similar to when a corner is about to be taken the ball isn’t deemed to be in play so if a defender decides to punch a forward in the coupon it would be a red card but can’t be a penalty.

Yeah, but the way Stewart talks he doesn’t understand that. 😃

[Fozzyonthefence]

11 minutes ago, Shaggy2 said:

It’s all so unclear, especially when you’re in the stadium. I think the ref had on his head it’s either onside and red or offside and yellow and waited til the VAR caravan had confirmed the offside before flashing the yellow. I think he should have clearly confirmed the offside before making it clear that Gowser was being booked for the tackle but obviously I have no idea how they’re told to deal with that scenario. 

That’s the key part.  I’ll need to watch again to see how quickly the offside flag went up but normally it stays down until the goal is scored / tackle goes in but you would expect to see the ref brandishing a card before he checks linesman for a possible offside, especially when there was literally millimetres in the offside.  
 

A different angle though - I’m still not sure how a yellow is the conclusion.  As with the Killie keeper, for me, it should either be a red for reckless play or nothing at all.  I don’t see how either can be a yellow.   Imo the Killie keeper should have got a red but I don’t think McGowan should have got red or yellow (obviously red if Vargas was onside) but to me the Killie keeper was an assault but last night wasn’t.

Edited February 8 by Fozzyonthefence

[Pasquale for King]

1 hour ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

Ref didn’t give a yellow card though, so he can’t give a yellow after VAR look at it.  He made a mistake like Mikey Stewart said on Sportscene.  And there was no dissent from St Johnstone - onfield decision was offside and no booking.  You can’t use VAR to decide if a player should get a yellow. 

You cant but he can give a yellow for a bad challenge after the offside has been cleared up, we don’t know why he was yellow carded.

[Shaggy2]

5 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

That’s the key part.  I’ll need to watch again to see how quickly the offside flag went up but normally it stays down until the goal is scored / tackle goes in but you would expect to see the ref brandishing a card before he checks linesman for a possible offside, especially when there was literally millimetres in the offside.  
 

A different angle though - I’m still not sure how a yellow is the conclusion.  As with the Killie keeper, for me, it should either be a red for reckless play or nothing at all.  I don’t see how either can be a yellow.   Imo the Killie keeper should have got a red but I don’t think McGowan should have got red or yellow (obviously red if Vargas) was inside but to me the Killie keeper was an assault but last night wasn’t.

The flag went up after the tackle, which as you say absolutely merited an immediate booking. The wait added to the confusion although I think most realised that that the offside would have to be confirmed to determine a possible red. 
Still not 100% convinced it was right but all’s well that ends well. Vargas wasn’t hurt, we won the game and we move on. 👍

Edited February 8 by Shaggy2

[Fozzyonthefence]

23 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

You cant but he can give a yellow for a bad challenge after the offside has been cleared up, we don’t know why he was yellow carded.

I’m not sure the ref does either!  Where is Mike Dean when you need him?!

[Watt-Zeefuik]

1 hour ago, Shaggy2 said:

The flag went up after the tackle, which as you say absolutely merited an immediate booking. The wait added to the confusion although I think most realised that that the offside would have to be confirmed to determine a possible red. 
Still not 100% convinced it was right but all’s well that ends well. Vargas wasn’t hurt, we won the game and we move on. 👍

 

To me the ref kept his cards in his pocket because he needed to decide if it was a yellow or a red. I suppose that's a mistake as he should have pulled the yellow immediately and then upgraded it to a red had VAR overturned the offside call, but I don't think he's made the wrong decision there overall. Just the timing of when the cards were shown.

 

FWIW I don't think Vargas was offside but the line judge called it and the evidence isn't overwhelming on video check. I'm okay with that turn of events -- if it's not clear on VAR, let the call on the field stand and get on with it.

[Watt-Zeefuik]

4 hours ago, Disser Pointon said:

I think Hoff has displaced Devlin, as much as I like Cammy, Hoff is a more composed version of him.

 

Not sure who starts in a mid three with the players we have currently once both Devlin and McKay are back and Fraser gets settled in, but for me Hoff is closer to Beni than he is to Devlin. I really hope Beni signs his extension but if he doesn't Hoff is immediately the new starter at the base of the midfield.

[cannonfoda]

6 hours ago, kingantti1874 said:

absolutely.  If every team in the league didn’t have their best players 🤣 window licking nonsense 

Easy tiger.  If you read what I wrote in full you'd see I'm enjoying Shankland whilst we can.  Also pointed out that the commentators were complimentary to us.  

[Shaggy2]

2 hours ago, Watt-Zeefuik said:

 

To me the ref kept his cards in his pocket because he needed to decide if it was a yellow or a red. I suppose that's a mistake as he should have pulled the yellow immediately and then upgraded it to a red had VAR overturned the offside call, but I don't think he's made the wrong decision there overall. Just the timing of when the cards were shown.

 

FWIW I don't think Vargas was offside but the line judge called it and the evidence isn't overwhelming on video check. I'm okay with that turn of events -- if it's not clear on VAR, let the call on the field stand and get on with it.

I think the same and said so earlier. It did add to the confusion though. When he flashed the yellow before fans at the match knew it was offside it seemed like he’d decided it wasn’t offside and gone with the yellow. The ball was also lying where the McGowan foul occurred rather than where the offside player commenced his run so that didn’t make things any clearer as to which side was going to restart the match. That’s another inconsistency that needs sorted because sometimes it’s the location the offside player touches the ball (which I think is right nowadays but I’m honestly not sure) and on others it’s where he was when pass was played. 

[FarmerTweedy]

4 hours ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

That’s the key part.  I’ll need to watch again to see how quickly the offside flag went up but normally it stays down until the goal is scored / tackle goes in but you would expect to see the ref brandishing a card before he checks linesman for a possible offside, especially when there was literally millimetres in the offside.  
 

A different angle though - I’m still not sure how a yellow is the conclusion.  As with the Killie keeper, for me, it should either be a red for reckless play or nothing at all.  I don’t see how either can be a yellow.   Imo the Killie keeper should have got a red but I don’t think McGowan should have got red or yellow (obviously red if Vargas was onside) but to me the Killie keeper was an assault but last night wasn’t.

Don't think the offside flag went up, I think VAR gave the offside, not the linesman.

[Shaggy2]

1 minute ago, FarmerTweedy said:

Don't think the offside flag went up, I think VAR gave the offside, not the linesman.

The flag did go up, well after the tackle but it did go up. Otherwise Gowser would have been standing in the tunnel hoping for a VAR reprieve. He’d have probably got it because despite all the talk, officials don’t have the guts to give the benefit of the doubt to attackers. 

[FarmerTweedy]

3 minutes ago, Shaggy2 said:

The flag did go up, well after the tackle but it did go up. Otherwise Gowser would have been standing in the tunnel hoping for a VAR reprieve. He’d have probably got it because despite all the talk, officials don’t have the guts to give the benefit of the doubt to attackers. 

Must have been very late going up then, the SPFL highlights on YouTube show him standing with the flag still down well after the tackle from McGowan. 

[Malinga the Swinga]

13 minutes ago, Shaggy2 said:

The flag did go up, well after the tackle but it did go up. Otherwise Gowser would have been standing in the tunnel hoping for a VAR reprieve. He’d have probably got it because despite all the talk, officials don’t have the guts to give the benefit of the doubt to attackers. 

There is no benefit of the doubt though, when lines are drawn using VAR. It's offside or onside.

[Malinga the Swinga]

5 hours ago, Shaggy2 said:

Yeah, but the way Stewart talks he doesn’t understand that. 😃

Agree with you. According to Stewart, once whistle goes, no cards should be issued. First offside given, just lamp your direct opponent on jaw and then quote 'but Mikey Stewart said' as your defence.

[Ski Nae]

7 hours ago, kingantti1874 said:

 

 

Mikey Stewart saying, "He shouldn’t *of* been booked."

 

FTFY.

 

 

7 hours ago, kingantti1874 said:

 

 

[sniffer]

6 hours ago, Shaggy2 said:

The referee gave Hearts nothing. He also asked Fraser to leave the pitch at the nearest point (correctly but not applied consistently) and asked Cochrane to leave the field after treatment despite the offender being booked. 

Initially, I thought the same but then I quickly realised that Cochrane had to leave the field, according to the laws of the game, because he had incurred a blood injury. If you had watched the incident closely, the 4th official went over to him and checked his face, before indicating to the ref that he was okay to return to play.

 

As for the  offside/onside/yellow/red card incident, I think it was quite a complex issue. 

 

a. the Offside decision was a close call and it needed VAR to check the angle very carefully;

 

b. the Gowser tackle was reckless but outside the box. Did the ref know that, at the time?;

 

c. If Vargas had been onside and the foul had been inside the box, then the ref would have given a penalty and a yellow card (according to the double jeopardy guidance);

 

d. If it had been onside and outside the box then it was, almost certainly, a foul and a red card, for denying a clear goal scoring opportunity;

 

e. if it was offside (which it was, although only just), then the correct decision was to award a free kick to the Saints and to book Gowser for a reckless challenge and that's what happened. If the ref had deemed it to have been a dangerous tackle then, of course, it would have been a red card ..... but it wasn't and the ref didn't need to go to the monitor to make that call. Also it wasn't a goal scoring opportunity because Vargas was offside.

 

Of course, the ref could have immediately awarded a foul or penalty and a red or yellow card but, in all likelihood, he would then have been called to the monitor, by Kevin Clancy, the VAR official, and been invited to review his decisions.

 

So, everything hinged on whether the Hearts player was off or onside and, in my humble opinion, the ref simply waited to clarify that important point before making his next decision. I don't know whether that was the correct protocol, according to the SFA rule book, but as there was going to be a delay for a VAR check, anyway, it seemed to be a logical and sensible approach.

 

Finally, I was amused to see the St Johnstone players surround the ref, after he produced the yellow card for Gowser. They seemed to be saying that he couldn't be booked  because Vargas was offside.  Clearly, their knowledge of the laws of the game is not much better than that of a certain BBC pundit!  😜

 

 

 

 

Edited February 8 by sniffer

[maroonsgotop]

 

[briever]

Watching this - Forrest's cross to the hand is much more of a pen than the Dundee one at the weekend.
 

 

[JTJ]

When Kent has his header at goal, Carey puts two hands on his back and shoves him. Nothing said or done on that - and Frankie doesn't complain. The Forrest cross against Considine's hand looked a penalty too. Sadly, the media comment only on the ball hitting Cochrane's elbow (at his side so NO penalty).

 

Still, we won comfortably.

[2205ian]

4 hours ago, sniffer said:

Initially, I thought the same but then I quickly realised that Cochrane had to leave the field, according to the laws of the game, because he had incurred a blood injury. If you had watched the incident closely, the 4th official went over to him and checked his face, before indicating to the ref that he was okay to return to play.

 

As for the  offside/onside/yellow/red card incident, I think it was quite a complex issue. 

 

a. the Offside decision was a close call and it needed VAR to check the angle very carefully;

 

b. the Gowser tackle was reckless but outside the box. Did the ref know that, at the time?;

 

c. If Vargas had been onside and the foul had been inside the box, then the ref would have given a penalty and a yellow card (according to the double jeopardy guidance);

 

d. If it had been onside and outside the box then it was, almost certainly, a foul and a red card, for denying a clear goal scoring opportunity;

 

e. if it was offside (which it was, although only just), then the correct decision was to award a free kick to the Saints and to book Gowser for a reckless challenge and that's what happened. If the ref had deemed it to have been a dangerous tackle then, of course, it would have been a red card ..... but it wasn't and the ref didn't need to go to the monitor to make that call. Also it wasn't a goal scoring opportunity because Vargas was offside.

 

Of course, the ref could have immediately awarded a foul or penalty and a red or yellow card but, in all likelihood, he would then have been called to the monitor, by Kevin Clancy, the VAR official, and been invited to review his decisions.

 

So, everything hinged on whether the Hearts player was off or onside and, in my humble opinion, the ref simply waited to clarify that important point before making his next decision. I don't know whether that was the correct protocol, according to the SFA rule book, but as there was going to be a delay for a VAR check, anyway, it seemed to be a logical and sensible approach.

 

Finally, I was amused to see the St Johnstone players surround the ref, after he produced the yellow card for Gowser. They seemed to be saying that he couldn't be booked  because Vargas was offside.  Clearly, their knowledge of the laws of the game is not much better than that of a certain BBC pundit!  😜

 

 

 

 

Excellent resume of the incident & correct decision by the referee who had a good match. 
 

For a fairly young referee, he seemed to communicate well with the players throughout the game regarding his decision making. Kept the flow of the game well & never wanted to be centre of attraction. Willie Collum & his cohorts from the west should view game and take note!!

 

 

[fmjambo]

Just watching the highlights back again. What a disgusting, cowardly and deliberate challenge from a so called “legend”.

 

Very disappointing for me from Gowser, he’s lost considerable respect from me after such a cowardly act.

[briever]

7 hours ago, fmjambo said:

Just watching the highlights back again. What a disgusting, cowardly and deliberate challenge from a so called “legend”.

 

Very disappointing for me from Gowser, he’s lost considerable respect from me after such a cowardly act.

 

Eh?  It was a foul but hardly anything of the things you describe.  Unless there was another tackle and not the one on 2.50 in the highlights above.

[Disser Pointon]

3 minutes ago, briever said:

 

Eh?  It was a foul but hardly anything of the things you describe.  Unless there was another tackle and not the one on 2.50 in the highlights above.

Agreed, no intent or nastiness about it for me.

[GinRummy]

7 hours ago, fmjambo said:

Just watching the highlights back again. What a disgusting, cowardly and deliberate challenge from a so called “legend”.

 

Very disappointing for me from Gowser, he’s lost considerable respect from me after such a cowardly act.

Ridiculous comment. It was a bad tackle, that’s it, nothing else. 

[Bindy Badgy]

It was a professional foul so he probably would have been off it was onside but, calling it cowardly is a bit of a stretch.

[King prawn]

9 hours ago, fmjambo said:

Just watching the highlights back again. What a disgusting, cowardly and deliberate challenge from a so called “legend”.

 

Very disappointing for me from Gowser, he’s lost considerable respect from me after such a cowardly act.

[Pasquale for King]

23 hours ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

I’m not sure the ref does either!  Where is Mike Dean when you need him?!

😆👍🏽👏🏾

[Pasquale for King]

18 hours ago, sniffer said:

Initially, I thought the same but then I quickly realised that Cochrane had to leave the field, according to the laws of the game, because he had incurred a blood injury. If you had watched the incident closely, the 4th official went over to him and checked his face, before indicating to the ref that he was okay to return to play.

 

As for the  offside/onside/yellow/red card incident, I think it was quite a complex issue. 

 

a. the Offside decision was a close call and it needed VAR to check the angle very carefully;

 

b. the Gowser tackle was reckless but outside the box. Did the ref know that, at the time?;

 

c. If Vargas had been onside and the foul had been inside the box, then the ref would have given a penalty and a yellow card (according to the double jeopardy guidance);

 

d. If it had been onside and outside the box then it was, almost certainly, a foul and a red card, for denying a clear goal scoring opportunity;

 

e. if it was offside (which it was, although only just), then the correct decision was to award a free kick to the Saints and to book Gowser for a reckless challenge and that's what happened. If the ref had deemed it to have been a dangerous tackle then, of course, it would have been a red card ..... but it wasn't and the ref didn't need to go to the monitor to make that call. Also it wasn't a goal scoring opportunity because Vargas was offside.

 

Of course, the ref could have immediately awarded a foul or penalty and a red or yellow card but, in all likelihood, he would then have been called to the monitor, by Kevin Clancy, the VAR official, and been invited to review his decisions.

 

So, everything hinged on whether the Hearts player was off or onside and, in my humble opinion, the ref simply waited to clarify that important point before making his next decision. I don't know whether that was the correct protocol, according to the SFA rule book, but as there was going to be a delay for a VAR check, anyway, it seemed to be a logical and sensible approach.

 

Finally, I was amused to see the St Johnstone players surround the ref, after he produced the yellow card for Gowser. They seemed to be saying that he couldn't be booked  because Vargas was offside.  Clearly, their knowledge of the laws of the game is not much better than that of a certain BBC pundit!  😜

 

 

 

 

Agree with that, not sure about double jeopardy though because if you don’t attempt to get the ball and its a goal scoring opportunity its a red card and a penalty. 

[sniffer]

3 hours ago, Pasquale for King said:

Agree with that, not sure about double jeopardy though because if you don’t attempt to get the ball and its a goal scoring opportunity its a red card and a penalty. 

I agree 100%. If Vargas had been onside, then that's another consideration the ref would have had to make. But, he wasn't and I don't think the foul was in the box either.

[Pasquale for King]

15 minutes ago, sniffer said:

I agree 100%. If Vargas had been onside, then that's another consideration the ref would have had to make. But, he wasn't and I don't think the foul was in the box either.

Probably just outside, millimetres offside and a likely 3-4 nil win against ten men. 

[Fake Persona]

On 07/02/2024 at 22:07, The White Cockade said:

not the perfect angle on tv but Vargas didn’t look offside for the Mcgowan foul/penalty

I thought that was a disgusting decision. 

 

Call me what you will but I'll go on record right now saying the SFA refs will do everything they can to deny us such things... Rangers get a million penalties when they're struggling. We get made to struggle by the same whistlers.. 2 nil at that point, game over. But the establishment doesn't want a strong 3rd team so they orchestrated more chance for St J to get back in the game. 

 

I am extremely surprised they never got their penalty shout. If the ball wasn't absolutely blasted at our boy, I think they'd have been awarded it with glee. As it stood, it would've been just a little too blatant, even for them. 

 

I grassed the SFA refs up to UEFA with pictorial and video evidences of them allowing multiple no-foul thuggeries to be committed on Hearts players and I showed them about 6 solid penalty shouts that weren't given at the start of the season. I have no idea if they took notice, but almost immediately after we got our first penalty of the season. 

 

Complain to UEFA. We get shafted by marginal calls on purpose to hold us back and it's hella obvious. I'm gonna keep sending them evidence. Here's another one. Not even counting all the throw in and corners we don't get etc. 

 

How can any unbiased viewer look at the vargas offside review and call him off? It feckin stinks to high heavens 

 

 

 

Edited February 10 by Fake Persona

[Watt-Zeefuik]

On 08/02/2024 at 13:02, FarmerTweedy said:

Don't think the offside flag went up, I think VAR gave the offside, not the linesman.

 

No I'm pretty sure it was the linesman that called it.

 

Just watched the highlights on Hearts TV. The linesman waited to put his flag up until after the tackle but did call it. Laurie notices the flag and comments on it right away, just as the ref points to the linesman as well.

 

It was very narrow for me. Even if Vargas was onside it was extremely narrowly so. I had a hard time freezing the frame right at the moment but this isn't more than a tenth of a second after the ball is played. The linesman makes a reasonable decision and there's certainly not enough in VAR to overrule the call.

 

[GinRummy]

3 minutes ago, Watt-Zeefuik said:

 

No I'm pretty sure it was the linesman that called it.

 

Just watched the highlights on Hearts TV. The linesman waited to put his flag up until after the tackle but did call it. Laurie notices the flag and comments on it right away, just as the ref points to the linesman as well.

 

It was very narrow for me. Even if Vargas was onside it was extremely narrowly so. I had a hard time freezing the frame right at the moment but this isn't more than a tenth of a second after the ball is played. The linesman makes a reasonable decision and there's certainly not enough in VAR to overrule the call.

 

I get the time difference Wattie but I’d that you just catching up on this game😏

 

I agree there was nothing in it. Easy to say the ref made the easy decision by calling it off and maybe he did. 

[Watt-Zeefuik]

16 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

I get the time difference Wattie but I’d that you just catching up on this game😏

 

I agree there was nothing in it. Easy to say the ref made the easy decision by calling it off and maybe he did. 

Heh, I couldn't watch it live so I'm late to a lot of this. HeartsTV doesn't post the replays until the next day for evening games like this.