Ratings v Scumdee (GIRUY Nelms)

[Mr Rabbit]

Naismith said that Halkett was ill as well as Kingsley but said he pushed himself to even be on the bench. Which was the reason we had sibbick playing.

 

Sibbick had done a service for us but there’s a reason he’s now 5th choice centre back. He has all the assets to be an amazing centre back but he can’t mark and his positioning is terrible. He stands off his man and even turns his back on them which is unforgivable.

 

The bizarre thing is that some fans on here are still pushing him for a start. I would be moving him on in the summer.

[ming the merciless]

40 minutes ago, Holtie said:

Some of the stuff on here is appalling - perhaps they are Hibs fans, but some of the criticism of our players, after a great win against a pretty good Dundee side , is simply unacceptable . Have a word with yourselves.

Wasn’t at the game but this 100%. Come on. 

[upgotheheads]

2 hours ago, tcjambo said:

Clark - 6 - Should have done better with Cameron's shot. Good save later

Kent - 6 - Posted missing at the first goal

Cochrane - 7 - Also missing at first goal and but had a good last 60 minutes

Lembikisa - 5 -Gave the ball away several times  yup, struggled defensively quit often

Sibbick - 6 - Best defender fisrt half. Blamed for backing off his man running at him at speed but not sure what else he coudl have done. Had a decent game, don't tell the haters

Baningime - 8  Did well. Kept us together first half

Grant - 4 - Nothing paid off for him. Our worst player today

Nieuwenhof - 5 - Anonymous fisrt half. Bit more involved second half   6 for me thougt he had d decent game

Forrest - 8 - MoM. One shaky moment but otherwise consistently willing to take the game to them

Oda - 5 - Tough shift for him against Beck. Started well but faded. Current target of boo boys like Toby

Subs:

Vargas - 4 - Got involved

Fraser - 3 - Good that he got a run out

Tait - 3 - never noticed him

Halkett - 1 - No time

[dougal]

10 minutes ago, Mr Rabbit said:

Naismith said that Halkett was ill as well as Kingsley but said he pushed himself to even be on the bench. Which was the reason we had sibbick playing.

 

Sibbick had done a service for us but there’s a reason he’s now 5th choice centre back. He has all the assets to be an amazing centre back but he can’t mark and his positioning is terrible. He stands off his man and even turns his back on them which is unforgivable.

 

The bizarre thing is that some fans on here are still pushing him for a start. I would be moving him on in the summer.

This quite clearly proves that he does not have all the assets to be an amazing centre back. Marking and positioning are along with defending probably the main components required to be a competent never mind amazing centre back. Missing 2 of the 3 means he's miles away from being amazing.

[Thomaso]

3 hours ago, Watt-Zeefuik said:

I don’t say this lightly but I think it’s time to drop Clark

It’s not 

[Mr Rabbit]

5 minutes ago, dougal said:

This quite clearly proves that he does not have all the assets to be an amazing centre back. Marking and positioning are along with defending probably the main components required to be a competent never mind amazing centre back. Missing 2 of the 3 means he's miles away from being amazing.

True, however I was more meaning the physical attributes of the game.

 

Agreed that without those two attributes you’re not a defender, especially a centre back.

[Thomaso]

30 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Hearts were booed off at half time. It was a tough watch at times. 

Well maybe our fans need to show a bit more patience and support for 90 minutes! 🤷‍♂️

[BackOfTheNet]

Sibbick wasn’t to blame for either goal today. Our last game against Dundee had multiple players to blame for the goals, yet they don’t get written off like Sibbick does. Honestly, it’s like some of you want him to be shite that even if he puts in an average performance (not saying good) that you go over the top. It’s just tedious.

Edited February 3 by BackOfTheNet

[Mr Rabbit]

13 minutes ago, BackOfTheNet said:

Sibbick wasn’t to blame for either goal today. Our last game against Dundee had multiple players to blame for the goals, yet they don’t get written off like Sibbick does. Honestly, it’s like some of you want him to be shite that even if he puts in an average performance (not saying good) that you go over the top. It’s just tedious.

😂 he turned his back on Cameron and gave him 5 yards to hit his shot. He was also poor throughout.

 

Are you his dad?

[Pete Elliott]

1 hour ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

So what did he do well?

He certainly wasn’t holding a defensive shape. The complete opposite.

[Pete Elliott]

4 minutes ago, Mr Rabbit said:

😂 he turned his back on Cameron and gave him 5 yards to hit his shot. He was also poor throughout.

 

Are you his dad?

He wasn’t poor throughout. He had a very good first half imo.

[Sleepy head]

3 hours ago, BackOfTheNet said:

Ah, but you see all players start on a 6 and can go up or down. Except Sibbick who starts on a 4, Oda and Grant 5 and Kent starts on an 8. That’s the rule of these threads.

So it seems that you're saying you think those players played well today? If not, you don't think fans can give them low scores?

[BackOfTheNet]

10 minutes ago, Mr Rabbit said:

😂 he turned his back on Cameron and gave him 5 yards to hit his shot. He was also poor throughout.

 

Are you his dad?

He had two players to cover, others get this, why can’t you?

[BackOfTheNet]

5 minutes ago, Sleepy head said:

So it seems that you're saying you think those players played well today? If not, you don't think fans can give them low scores?

Never once said they played well. Never once said fans can’t give low scores. So it seems you missed the point entirely.

 

Point being - regardless of how those players play - some fans will have a, for whatever reason, biased opinion of said player. As in it doesn’t matter if in reality Sibbick has an average game worth a 6, some will score him an 4 and exaggerate any deficiencies in his game. Likewise, it Kent has an average game worth a 6, some will score him an 8 and exaggerate any positives in his game. (This happened with Snodgrass continuously last season)

[Russ1977]

1 hour ago, Mr Rabbit said:

Naismith said that Halkett was ill as well as Kingsley but said he pushed himself to even be on the bench. Which was the reason we had sibbick playing.

 

Sibbick had done a service for us but there’s a reason he’s now 5th choice centre back. He has all the assets to be an amazing centre back but he can’t mark and his positioning is terrible. He stands off his man and even turns his back on them which is unforgivable.

 

The bizarre thing is that some fans on here are still pushing him for a start. I would be moving him on in the summer.

Spot on. He has everything you need to be a good defender apart from bravery and awareness. If we can get any money for him

in the summer we should punt him. 

[Beave1874]

19 minutes ago, BackOfTheNet said:

Never once said they played well. Never once said fans can’t give low scores. So it seems you missed the point entirely.

 

Point being - regardless of how those players play - some fans will have a, for whatever reason, biased opinion of said player. As in it doesn’t matter if in reality Sibbick has an average game worth a 6, some will score him an 4 and exaggerate any deficiencies in his game. Likewise, it Kent has an average game worth a 6, some will score him an 8 and exaggerate any positives in his game. (This happened with Snodgrass continuously last season)

With you on this, he came in and provided cover. Halkett ill and barely made bench apparently. What other choice did we have on the bench to step in? Also did not think he did as bad was being chucked on here. Forrest/Cochrane at fault for me at first goal, also thought  Lembiskia was very slow in losing the ball and just did not attempt to track back. Average game for Sibbick no doubt, poor not for me. 

Edited February 3 by Beave1874

[BackOfTheNet]

1 minute ago, Beave1874 said:

With you on this, he came in and provided cover. Halkett ill and barely made bench apparently. What other choice did we have on the bench to step in? Also did not think he did as bad was being chucked on here. Forrest/Cochrane at fault for me at first goal, also thought  Lembiskia was very slow in losing the ball and just did not attempt to track back. Average game for Sibbick no doubt, poor not for me. 

Exactly. Add into the fact he hasn’t played CB in yonks, he’s not exactly going to his the ground running is he? Fair enough to say he didn’t have a great game, but people are acting like he’s Joel Pereira out there.

[jambo007]

Sibbick, Are you his dad?

 

No but we did win a away game ,again , against a good team , get a smile on your face , thought it was very exciting game ,and we WON .🤩❤️

[tian447]

Sibbick is a strange one. 

 

He's clearly a good player, but doesn't seem to fit into a conventional position. He's not a defender, and he's not a midfielder, but he is definitely talented. 

[i8hibsh]

We are winning, so clearly we are doing it right but ffs.....stop picking the wrong XI at the start.

 

 

[Sleepy head]

34 minutes ago, BackOfTheNet said:

Never once said they played well. Never once said fans can’t give low scores. So it seems you missed the point entirely.

 

Point being - regardless of how those players play - some fans will have a, for whatever reason, biased opinion of said player. As in it doesn’t matter if in reality Sibbick has an average game worth a 6, some will score him an 4 and exaggerate any deficiencies in his game. Likewise, it Kent has an average game worth a 6, some will score him an 8 and exaggerate any positives in his game. (This happened with Snodgrass continuously last season)

And here you are moaning about fans giving a player low scores. You are full of assumptions on how fans decide how a player performed. Maybe you are the one with the bias regarding Sibbick.

[BackOfTheNet]

9 minutes ago, Sleepy head said:

And here you are moaning about fans giving a player low scores. You are full of assumptions on how fans decide how a player performed. Maybe you are the one with the bias regarding Sibbick.

It’s not about Sibbick. It’s about fans having stupidly extreme views based on stubbornly held opinions. I’ve always been in ratings threads defending players against unwarranted criticism and asking for a reality check on overhyped players too.

People have their negatives (Sibbick, Oda) and they’ll have their positives (Lowry was one, Kent can do no wrong for some). I’ve been in threads asking for reality to be perceived long before Sibbick was at the club and I’ll do it long after too.

[Sleepy head]

8 minutes ago, BackOfTheNet said:

It’s not about Sibbick. It’s about fans having stupidly extreme views based on stubbornly held opinions. I’ve always been in ratings threads defending players against unwarranted criticism and asking for a reality check on overhyped players too.

People have their negatives (Sibbick, Oda) and they’ll have their positives (Lowry was one, Kent can do no wrong for some). I’ve been in threads asking for reality to be perceived long before Sibbick was at the club and I’ll do it long after too.

Gon yersel.

[Sleepy head]

10 minutes ago, BackOfTheNet said:

It’s not about Sibbick. It’s about fans having stupidly extreme views based on stubbornly held opinions. I’ve always been in ratings threads defending players against unwarranted criticism and asking for a reality check on overhyped players too.

People have their negatives (Sibbick, Oda) and they’ll have their positives (Lowry was one, Kent can do no wrong for some). I’ve been in threads asking for reality to be perceived long before Sibbick was at the club and I’ll do it long after too.

Look mate. I kinda know where you are coming from but it's a ratings thread. People have bias in everyday situations.don't get so worked up about it man. 

[Watt-Zeefuik]

3 hours ago, Jambo Forever said:

Behave

His positioning at both goals was poor. If we didn’t have an all time great behind him it’d be one thing but it’s one thing to stay with him when we’re keeping clean sheets, it’s another when we start leaking mediocre goals.

[colinmaroon]

5 hours ago, OTT said:

Broadly agree - Sibbick was really poor. Completely struggled containing his man and seemed to prefer to back off and open up a free cross/shot than actually defend. Really frustrating from him. With how few moments he's had, its important he makes them count. I suspect Neilson will gazzump him as our back up CB next season. 

 

I think Beni's lack of movement is an issue, yes he's tidy on the ball but he does an awful lot of just walking about, not a very energetic player. 

 

Hoff frustrates me & Grant didn't have a great day - although still put in some nice balls. 

 

Forrest and Oda were complete contrasts. Alans workrate is genuinely in a league of its own. His determination and desire to make things work - even if its messy and ugly, is tremendous. I can see why Neilson and Naismith trust him so much. Oda had a few times to take Beck on and seemed to shit the bed every time. Good pass to set up Shankland for the Forrest goal though. 

 

Comment on Beni well off the mark.  Best player in first half, to the extent Dundee went down the flanks in second.

[Carter]

5 hours ago, BackOfTheNet said:

Because last time against Dundee he almost handed the game to them on a plate and was lucky not to give away a penalty? Or do people only acknowledge mistakes or errors when it’s players they don’t like?

You seem to be going out of your way on the whole Sibbick thing. There's a reason why he's not be playing. The manager quite evidently doesn't trust him. He's every reason not to trust him. 

[tcjambo]

4 hours ago, dougal said:

Missing Shanks here!!

He gets an 8 lol every time as a starting point. Great second half.

[gnasher75]

Sibbick has clearly been coached not to dive in.  So he just stands off an attacking player and doesn't do anything to close him down or get a block in.  Occasionally he gets lucky and the ball is hit off him.  But most of the time players just cross the ball or shoot past him as if he isn't there.  It's like it's a training drill and he's been told to harry but not tackle.  Actually harrying is more than he does.  It's such a basic thing for a footballer.  But I honestly think he thinks he's defending properly.

[The Old Tolbooth]

I felt we played well today, Oda and Sibbick were awful and Grant was bang average, but the rest played their socks off and I thought we were very decent! 
 

Credit also has to go to Naisy again as well, he’s now getting the hang of this managerial lark and is changing things when it needs changed and it’s making the difference in games, we would have lost that today under Neilson for sure, and the last time we played Dundee too! He's won me over 😁

[BackOfTheNet]

9 minutes ago, Carter said:

You seem to be going out of your way on the whole Sibbick thing. There's a reason why he's not be playing. The manager quite evidently doesn't trust him. He's every reason not to trust him. 

As I said, if I see people going over the top (either way) I’ll call it as I see it. And I know Sibbick is the manager’s 5th choice CB, certainly not going to argue with him. But that doesn’t mean he’s shite. And doesn’t mean he played shite today. A lot on here are not scoring today’s performance accurately in my opinion, they’re scoring on what they think of him overall. I’ve also called out what people have said about Oda too.

[tcjambo]

1 hour ago, BackOfTheNet said:

Never once said they played well. Never once said fans can’t give low scores. So it seems you missed the point entirely.

 

Point being - regardless of how those players play - some fans will have a, for whatever reason, biased opinion of said player. As in it doesn’t matter if in reality Sibbick has an average game worth a 6, some will score him an 4 and exaggerate any deficiencies in his game. Likewise, it Kent has an average game worth a 6, some will score him an 8 and exaggerate any positives in his game. (This happened with Snodgrass continuously last season)

100% correct.  Firstly, Dexter was posted missing leaving Sibbick to retreat to cover the RB position too.   If Sibbick had comitted to a tackle and got rounded by Cameron to run in on goal everyone would have salughtered him. The fact is Cameron hit a great low early shot and I thought Zander might have done better. BTW Nobody is talking about the criminal marking by Kent and Cochrane for the first goal.

[tcjambo]

3 minutes ago, The Old Tolbooth said:

I felt we played well today, Oda and Sibbick were awful and Grant was bang average, but the rest played their socks off and I thought we were very decent! 
 

Credit also has to go to Naisy again as well, he’s now getting the hang of this managerial lark and is changing things when it needs changed and it’s making the difference in games, we would have lost that today under Neilson for sure, and the last time we played Dundee too! He's won me over 😁

Grant was awful. The other two were average.

[The Old Tolbooth]

Just now, tcjambo said:

Grant was awful. The other two were average.

Oda was worse than awful for me, couldn’t beat an egg that ****er 

[wavydavy]

6 hours ago, OTT said:

Broadly agree - Sibbick was really poor. Completely struggled containing his man and seemed to prefer to back off and open up a free cross/shot than actually defend. Really frustrating from him. With how few moments he's had, its important he makes them count. I suspect Neilson will gazzump him as our back up CB next season. 

 

I think Beni's lack of movement is an issue, yes he's tidy on the ball but he does an awful lot of just walking about, not a very energetic player. 

 

Hoff frustrates me & Grant didn't have a great day - although still put in some nice balls. 

 

Forrest and Oda were complete contrasts. Alans workrate is genuinely in a league of its own. His determination and desire to make things work - even if its messy and ugly, is tremendous. I can see why Neilson and Naismith trust him so much. Oda had a few times to take Beck on and seemed to shit the bed every time. Good pass to set up Shankland for the Forrest goal though. 

 

I think you got this bit wrong, surely this applies to Hoff, The guy just trots about nowhere near the play most of the time and Grant is about the same. Watch the space Hoff gives McCowan I think it was who put he cross in for McGhee's goal.

[Carter]

1 hour ago, BackOfTheNet said:

As I said, if I see people going over the top (either way) I’ll call it as I see it. And I know Sibbick is the manager’s 5th choice CB, certainly not going to argue with him. But that doesn’t mean he’s shite. And doesn’t mean he played shite today. A lot on here are not scoring today’s performance accurately in my opinion, they’re scoring on what they think of him overall. I’ve also called out what people have said about Oda too.

Sibbick is definitely not shite. He's got some very good attributes. Just don't see him having eradicated the errors from his game that have been so prevalent. 

 

Maybe you enjoy going against the grain.

[PaddysBar]

3 hours ago, Thomaso said:

It’s not 

I think Clark has done really well with massive shoes to fill but Craig Gordon is 100% saving the first Dundee goal. 
 

I’d fancy him for the second as well. 

[Thomaso]

3 minutes ago, PaddysBar said:

I think Clark has done really well with massive shoes to fill but Craig Gordon is 100% saving the first Dundee goal. 
 

I’d fancy him for the second as well. 

Nah no guarantee Gordon was saving them.

[Watt-Zeefuik]

3 hours ago, Thomaso said:

Nah no guarantee Gordon was saving them.

I'm not guaranteeing anything but Clark was shifted too far to his left for both goals and looked indecisive in the run up to them. It's absolutely harsh on him as generally he'd be given more time, but Gordon is right there.

[HMFC 86]

8 hours ago, Mr Rabbit said:

Naismith said that Halkett was ill as well as Kingsley but said he pushed himself to even be on the bench. Which was the reason we had sibbick playing.

 

Sibbick had done a service for us but there’s a reason he’s now 5th choice centre back. He has all the assets to be an amazing centre back but he can’t mark and his positioning is terrible. He stands off his man and even turns his back on them which is unforgivable.

 

The bizarre thing is that some fans on here are still pushing him for a start. I would be moving him on in the summer.

Agree with this. He just lets crosses come in and cannot defend the box (in air or on ground). We definitely need to move him on, it’s not worked out.

Edited February 4 by HMFC 86

[GinRummy]

4 hours ago, PaddysBar said:

I think Clark has done really well with massive shoes to fill but Craig Gordon is 100% saving the first Dundee goal. 
 

I’d fancy him for the second as well. 

The bottom line for me is if Craig Gordon is thought to be as good as he was before his injury then he should be playing. Hard to judge with any certainty whether he would have saved this shot or that shot.

[gregzy2k7]

I've got to say I really like the look of McAuley Tait, I geniunely think he is going on to big things, Would go as far to say that we need to get him on a long term deal right now, boy is class imo.

 

Good team performance on the whole but the star man was Shanks, that's him passed Rudi in terms of goals scored, unbelievable achievement 👏 

 

 

[RDSK]

Thought Calem was much better than many of the ratings he’s getting on here. 7 or an 8 for me. Busy, battling and composed on the ball. 

[Disser Pointon]

1 hour ago, RDSK said:

Thought Calem was much better than many of the ratings he’s getting on here. 7 or an 8 for me. Busy, battling and composed on the ball. 

Agreed, doesn't get many plaudits because he does nothing spectacular but he allows others to play. A more composed version of Cammy Devlin...... And I like Cammy.

[tartofmidlothian]

13 hours ago, BervieJambo said:

Clark-7 Reliable.
Lembikisa-6 Had a tough time against Beck, but stuck to it.
Cochrane-7 Always looking to take it forward.
Kent-7 Typical performance.
Sibbick-7 Thought he looked calm. Don't see the stick he's getting on here.
Oda-5 Struggled at times, but also had moments.
Forrest-8 On fire at the moment.
Hof-7 Puts in a power of work.
Grant-6 Worked hard, but little came off for him.
Shanks-9 Makes the difference.
Beni-7 Controls the midfield.
Vargas-6 Added energy.
Tait-6 Added a bit of urgency in the middle.
Fraser-6 Promising.
Halkett-2 No time.

Think Dundee are the best team we've played outside the OF. They have some really good players - Beck will develop into something really special. Cameron & McCowan impressed again - I see both as potential targets for us in the future.

 

 

This is closest to what I saw. Sibbick was okay. Oda is very good with the ball at his feet but less so at the physical side, I wish he'd chase the odd lost cause more as well. Nieuwenhof did his usual for the last few matches, he had a very good game while being almost invisible. 

 

Dundee are a capable side with a very hard-working mentality, I fancy them to put Aberdeen and Hibs in the bottom half.

Edited February 4 by tartofmidlothian

[PapaShango]

11 hours ago, Mr Rabbit said:

😂 he turned his back on Cameron and gave him 5 yards to hit his shot. He was also poor throughout.

 

Are you his dad?

Sibbick has to take some of the blame for the second stood way off him and was nowhere near to blocking it. However blame for me also goes to Clarke, Gordon 100% saves that and that’s the reason we should be putting him back in goals. Not so much Clarke done much wrong but we have a better keeper sitting on the bench. You wouldn’t be surprised if Gordon also saves the first one. Doesn’t even go in the corner.

[PapaShango]

17 minutes ago, tartofmidlothian said:

 

This is closest to what I saw. Sibbick was okay. Oda is very good with the ball at his feet but less so at the physical side, I wish he'd chase the odd lost cause more as well. Nieuwenhof did his usual for the last few matches, he had a very good game while being almost invisible. 

 

Dundee are a capable side with a very hard-working mentality, I fancy them to put Aberdeen and Hibs in the bottom half.

Oda was poor again seems to have a real lack of confidence to beat a player. To be fair Beck is a terrific player and head and shoulders their best player. 

[Pete Elliott]

2 hours ago, RDSK said:

Thought Calem was much better than many of the ratings he’s getting on here. 7 or an 8 for me. Busy, battling and composed on the ball. 

 

1 hour ago, Disser Pointon said:

Agreed, doesn't get many plaudits because he does nothing spectacular but he allows others to play. A more composed version of Cammy Devlin...... And I like Cammy.

Absolutely. He’s the sort of player you don’t notice as much on TV but when at games you see how much distance he covers. 

[BackOfTheNet]

8 hours ago, Carter said:

Sibbick is definitely not shite. He's got some very good attributes. Just don't see him having eradicated the errors from his game that have been so prevalent. 

 

Maybe you enjoy going against the grain.

Not at all. I leave being contrarian to some notable posters on here. As much as I’ve been on ratings threads (or threads started for specific players) pointing out too low or high ratings, I’ve spent plenty quoting Geoff’s original and saying along the lines of “pretty spot on” but I may tweak a 5 to a 6 or 8 to a 7 here or there.

 

Honestly, if Sibbick was genuinely as bad as people on here say he was, I’d not be posting anything about him. (Not big on slating our own players, but not going to disagree if a player is that bad) Just like in his last few seasons if Michael Smith was as good as some liked to pretend, or Snodgrass, or Boyce, or Lafferty, or Lowry.
 

It’s a discussion forum, and if I see people discussing things in a way I don’t think reflects reality, I’ll put over my discussion points as to why I disagree. And one of my biggest bugbears about our own fans is the need to have an extreme view on a player (either way) that is so stubbornly held onto that when presented evidence to the contrary, it is ignored. So certain players have to be on the top of their game just to get begrudging pass marks and others can be utterly crap and only get the “not their best game, but still had moments of quality”.

[XB52]

16 hours ago, BackOfTheNet said:

Because last time against Dundee he almost handed the game to them on a plate and was lucky not to give away a penalty? Or do people only acknowledge mistakes or errors when it’s players they don’t like?

He was ill