Scots Language - Gaelic - Scots - Dialects

January 17

11 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

🤣🤣🤣

January 17

A few Gàidhlig, or celtic, words that were likely adopted into English

Bard - poet

Ceilidh - to visit

Clan - children

Clock - bell - glag, (like a clock tower)

Galore - enough, plenty

Gob - beak, mouth

Slogan - call of the people

Whisky - aqua vitae, water of life

Also, whatever the debate about Scots as a dialect, Scottish folk definitely did more than their fair share to develop and standardise the modern ‘English’ language.

January 17

🙂

Extremely interesting and a Youtube channel which will be further explored

This was meant to quote ri Alban's post further up on Old English and modern english speakers!

Don't know why it didn't

Edited January 17 by AyrJambo

January 17

2 hours ago, Ulysses said:

Are you accepting all cookies, or just the essential ones? 🍪

On that, I used to just accept for quickness. Now, not so much.

January 17

9 minutes ago, AyrJambo said:

🙂

Extremely interesting and a Youtube channel which will be further explored

This was meant to quote ri Alban's post further up on Old English and modern english speakers!

Don't know why it didn't

January 17

January 17

20 hours ago, Ulysses said:

It's said that the last native Manx speaker was Ned Maddrell, who died in 1974, and the death of the last native speaker is often considered to be the point at which a language dies. But I think the death of a language happens earlier. There are still a few thousand native speakers of the Goidelic languages of Ireland and Scotland left - but I don't think there is anyone left alive in either country who wasn't also raised with a strong presence of the English language in their lives, whether at home, at school, or in the community around them. In the case of a minority language, once the last monolingual speakers are gone it is usually only a matter of time before the language becomes a museum piece.

Some truth here though a lass I knew at Uni some 25 years ago, herself a Gaelic speaker from Ness, used to mock her uncle as he could barely converse in English.

That said, it is weak here. Welsh though despite a similar omnipresent English is much stronger, as is Basque which lives cheek and jowel with Spanish.

Where there's a will...

January 17

1 hour ago, ri Alban said:

Watched that,made me remember a joke.......what do you call a jobbie wi one eye???

Spoiler

A keek🤣🤣

January 18

7 hours ago, henrysmithsgloves said:

Watched that,made me remember a joke.......what do you call a jobbie wi one eye???

Hide contents

A keek🤣🤣

What do you call a Ghost with one eye have/taking a jobbie?

Spoiler

A Keek a boo.

Edited January 18 by ri Alban

January 18

2 hours ago, ri Alban said:

What do you call a Ghost with one eye have/taking a jobbie?

Hide contents

A Keek a boo.

🤣🤣

January 18

On 16/01/2024 at 18:38, Debut 4 said:

I asked a Bulgarian colleague what we sound like. He said very German, kind of aggressive sounding.

Moving on…..I’ve often wondered why Glaswegian doesn’t use the word “ken?”

They often like to take the Mickey about it but you find it everywhere that surrounds them, Lanarkshire, Ayrshire and obviously along the central belt, Borders, up North, all use it.

There’s also debate as to where it originated? The Danes use “kennen” but there’s a version in the Netherlands too.

On 16/01/2024 at 21:16, ArcticJambo said:

Strangely enough on the back of this thread and mulling over a few words yesterday, ken being one of them, kenspeckle came up on this Radio 4 program this afternoon. It's

Etymology is probably of Scandinavian origin, which ties in. I automatically mused whether kenspeckle or something similar has been simplified over the years.

Anyway, the radio piece is quite interesting. Worth a lsiten.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m001vcfz

As is the previous program, Doctor Doctor where the host talks to Peter Greenwood an expert in Quaver-caice, and quite the character. Interesting too.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p0gy7btw

Kennen is German verb meaning "to know". We cannot claim that one...Will have come over with the Vikings

Edited January 18 by Spellczech

January 19

On 17/01/2024 at 20:33, Gundermann said:

Some truth here though a lass I knew at Uni some 25 years ago, herself a Gaelic speaker from Ness, used to mock her uncle as he could barely converse in English.

That said, it is weak here. Welsh though despite a similar omnipresent English is much stronger, as is Basque which lives cheek and jowel with Spanish.

Where there's a will...

I have an Irish teacher whose grandfather was born in the 1920s, who was raised without English at home or in school, who only heard the English language for the first time in his 30s, and who died without being able to converse in it, despite living his whole life only 30 miles from the border with NI. He maintains that there are things his grandfather could say that the current generation of Irish speakers can't, because they've actually lost the depth of vocabulary and idiom to the able to do so as the number of native speakers declines. I suspect the same is true of Gàidhlig. I was in Bilbao last year, and something that struck me was that Basque was very visible in the city, with lots of dual-language signage and the like, but Spanish was what could be heard.

January 19

3 hours ago, Ulysses said:

I have an Irish teacher whose grandfather was born in the 1920s, who was raised without English at home or in school, who only heard the English language for the first time in his 30s, and who died without being able to converse in it, despite living his whole life only 30 miles from the border with NI. He maintains that there are things his grandfather could say that the current generation of Irish speakers can't, because they've actually lost the depth of vocabulary and idiom to the able to do so as the number of native speakers declines. I suspect the same is true of Gàidhlig. I was in Bilbao last year, and something that struck me was that Basque was very visible in the city, with lots of dual-language signage and the like, but Spanish was what could be heard.

Are there some dialects of Scottish Gaelic, Some regions of Irish speakers can understand? If that sounds sensible.

January 19

5 hours ago, ri Alban said:

Are there some dialects of Scottish Gaelic, Some regions of Irish speakers can understand? If that sounds sensible.

Lewis Gaelic and Donegal Gaelic is quite similar. Some Irish woman on Off the Ball recently said yon Hebridean Baker, Coinneach MacLeod's accent reminded her of Donegal.

January 19

8 hours ago, Ulysses said:

I have an Irish teacher whose grandfather was born in the 1920s, who was raised without English at home or in school, who only heard the English language for the first time in his 30s, and who died without being able to converse in it, despite living his whole life only 30 miles from the border with NI. He maintains that there are things his grandfather could say that the current generation of Irish speakers can't, because they've actually lost the depth of vocabulary and idiom to the able to do so as the number of native speakers declines. I suspect the same is true of Gàidhlig. I was in Bilbao last year, and something that struck me was that Basque was very visible in the city, with lots of dual-language signage and the like, but Spanish was what could be heard.

Aye, progress and regression...

Was once on Toraigh Island and there are a few non-English speakers there still, or there was some 20 years ago.

January 19

6 hours ago, ri Alban said:

Are there some dialects of Scottish Gaelic, Some regions of Irish speakers can understand? If that sounds sensible.

There are, definitely. There used to be a lot of seafaring and fishing connections between the Hebrides and North Donegal.

I know a couple of people from the top end of Donegal who find Gàidhlig speakers from the Hebrides as easy to understand as Irish speakers from West Kerry, maybe even a little easier.

56 minutes ago, Gundermann said:

Aye, progress and regression...

Was once on Toraigh Island and there are a few non-English speakers there still, or there was some 20 years ago.

I was on Toraigh in 2018 and 2019. There are about 140 people living on the island, and I'd say about 75-80% are still highly fluent Irish speakers. However, 100% of them are fluent English speakers, and English is increasingly the language of daily life. As you say, progress and regression. Let's face it, no-one's going to give up their satellite dishes or their streaming subscriptions - I'd imagine life could get very boring up there in the winter otherwise.

January 19

I would really like to know what the language of the Picts sounded like. If it was as expressive as their art work it would have been very interesting to hear. I have heard it said as they were some of the earliest people living in a part of the British Isles it might have sounded a little like the Welsh language.

January 28

On 15/01/2024 at 18:30, Norm said:

It's a tough one. The Norman invasion brought a whole bunch of French words in to the English language down south that didn't happen up here. Our "English", or Scots, stayed truer to its Germanic roots. You can still see that with words like licht, coo and kirk.

I dunno but I'd guess the Union of the Crowns probably killed Scots as its own distinct language. When the King and Royal Court all start to speak English as opposed to Scots, it's only a matter of time before everyone else does. If that didn't happen, you'd probably see Scots and English develop in a similar way to Portuguese and Spanish.

As part of the Anglian kingdom of Northumbria for around five centuries, their “old” English had plenty time to embed itself in what later became Lowland Scotland.
With the establishment of “Scotland”, it seems the English language north of the border developed differently - “Lowland Scots” - and as you say, remained closer to its Germanic roots.

As a result, I’d say modern day Scots are more adept at Dutch or German word pronunciation than their English counterparts.
The poetry of Edinburgh’s Robert Fergusson (whom Burns called his “Elder brother in the Muse”) is a great example of Lowland Scots - as is Burns’ work, of course.

January 28

On 19/01/2024 at 11:59, All roads lead to Gorgie said:

I would really like to know what the language of the Picts sounded like. If it was as expressive as their art work it would have been very interesting to hear. I have heard it said as they were some of the earliest people living in a part of the British Isles it might have sounded a little like the Welsh language.

Yes, the Pictish language remains a bit of a mystery. The dominant Celtic language in Britain was Brythonic/Brittonic and there’s speculation around the relationship between that language and Pictish.

Brythonic is thought to be the forerunner of modern Welsh.

Goidelic was the dominant Celtic language in what is now Ireland and this was imported into what is now western Scotland. This is the forerunner of modern Scottish Gaelic.

January 28

34 minutes ago, PortyBeach said:

Yes, the Pictish language remains a bit of a mystery. The dominant Celtic language in Britain was Brythonic/Brittonic and there’s speculation around the relationship between that language and Pictish.

Brythonic is thought to be the forerunner of modern Welsh.

Goidelic was the dominant Celtic language in what is now Ireland and this was imported into what is now western Scotland. This is the forerunner of modern Scottish Gaelic.

Yes it's a fascinating subject how language evolved and move from place to place. The Picts I find interesting and I will stop to look at any carved stones when I am passing anywhere that has them. My Gran was from the West Highlands and could still speak some Gaelic as could my Mum but only a few words in her case. I can read a map and know a lot of place name meanings but listening to someone speak Gaelic is still hard for someone brought up on the east coast.

I should say hard to understand not to listen to😁

Edited January 28 by All roads lead to Gorgie

January 28

On 19/01/2024 at 11:47, Ulysses said:

There are, definitely. There used to be a lot of seafaring and fishing connections between the Hebrides and North Donegal.

I know a couple of people from the top end of Donegal who find Gàidhlig speakers from the Hebrides as easy to understand as Irish speakers from West Kerry, maybe even a little easier.

I was on Toraigh in 2018 and 2019. There are about 140 people living on the island, and I'd say about 75-80% are still highly fluent Irish speakers. However, 100% of them are fluent English speakers, and English is increasingly the language of daily life. As you say, progress and regression. Let's face it, no-one's going to give up their satellite dishes or their streaming subscriptions - I'd imagine life could get very boring up there in the winter otherwise.

👍

January 28

On 16/01/2024 at 04:34, ri Alban said:

Norwegian and Swedish are pretty much the same language. Coming from Old Norse. Both now have their own armed forces, so speak Norwegian and Swedish.

Interestingly my daughter lives in Sweden and is married to a Swede. Her husband has told me, as they all sound the same to me, that Danish and Norwegian are similar and both very different to Swedish.

January 28

17 minutes ago, All roads lead to Gorgie said:

Yes it's a fascinating subject how language evolved and move from place to place. The Picts I find interesting and I will stop to look at any carved stones when I am passing anywhere that has them. My Gran was from the West Highlands and could still speak some Gaelic as could my Mum but only a few words in her case. I can read a map and know a lot of place name meanings but listening to someone speak Gaelic is still hard for someone brought up on the east coast.

I should say hard to understand not to listen to😁

After living in Lewis for 26 years now, I can understand quite a lot of gaelic. My Mrs didn't have any English until she started in school. Her and the in laws were always trying to get me to speak it, but my East Coast accent made that nigh on impossible. In my head, I'm saying the words perfectly, in reality though, I'm supplying comedy for gaelic speakers.

January 28

8 minutes ago, Peakybunnet said:

Interestingly my daughter lives in Sweden and is married to a Swede. Her husband has told me, as they all sound the same to me, that Danish and Norwegian are similar and both very different to Swedish.

Christ, I've been to Keith, I know they speak the same language, but 🤯

Edited January 28 by ri Alban

January 28

28 minutes ago, All roads lead to Gorgie said:

Yes it's a fascinating subject how language evolved and move from place to place. The Picts I find interesting and I will stop to look at any carved stones when I am passing anywhere that has them. My Gran was from the West Highlands and could still speak some Gaelic as could my Mum but only a few words in her case. I can read a map and know a lot of place name meanings but listening to someone speak Gaelic is still hard for someone brought up on the east coast.

I should say hard to understand not to listen to😁

😃

January 28

On 16/01/2024 at 18:38, Debut 4 said:

I asked a Bulgarian colleague what we sound like. He said very German, kind of aggressive sounding.

Moving on…..I’ve often wondered why Glaswegian doesn’t use the word “ken?”

They often like to take the Mickey about it but you find it everywhere that surrounds them, Lanarkshire, Ayrshire and obviously along the central belt, Borders, up North, all use it.

There’s also debate as to where it originated? The Danes use “kennen” but there’s a version in the Netherlands too.

I think “Ken” is as you say, a likely reflection of Lowland Scots’ Germanic roots.
Why isn’t it used in Glasgow? I’d guess it’s to do with immigration.

Glasgow is relatively cosmopolitan compared to other parts of Scotland due to its industrial past and I reckon linguistically that’s resulted in a dilution of spoken Lowland Scots in Glasgow.

I think Liverpool is a similar example - scousers certainly don’t speak “Lancashire”!

Weegies of my acquaintance have ignorantly tended to deride “Ken” as simply “teuchter-speak”.
As you say, that’s to ignore that the word is used almost everywhere else in Lowland Scotland. But then, Glasgow is the centre of the known universe…

January 28

2 hours ago, PortyBeach said:

I think “Ken” is as you say, a likely reflection of Lowland Scots’ Germanic roots.
Why isn’t it used in Glasgow? I’d guess it’s to do with immigration.

Glasgow is relatively cosmopolitan compared to other parts of Scotland due to its industrial past and I reckon linguistically that’s resulted in a dilution of spoken Lowland Scots in Glasgow.

I think Liverpool is a similar example - scousers certainly don’t speak “Lancashire”!

Weegies of my acquaintance have ignorantly tended to deride “Ken” as simply “teuchter-speak”.
As you say, that’s to ignore that the word is used almost everywhere else in Lowland Scotland. But then, Glasgow is the centre of the known universe…

👍🏻

January 28

2 hours ago, PortyBeach said:

I think “Ken” is as you say, a likely reflection of Lowland Scots’ Germanic roots.
Why isn’t it used in Glasgow? I’d guess it’s to do with immigration.

Glasgow is relatively cosmopolitan compared to other parts of Scotland due to its industrial past and I reckon linguistically that’s resulted in a dilution of spoken Lowland Scots in Glasgow.

I think Liverpool is a similar example - scousers certainly don’t speak “Lancashire”!

Weegies of my acquaintance have *ignorantly tended to deride “Ken” as simply “teuchter-speak”.
As you say, that’s to ignore that the word is used almost everywhere else in Lowland Scotland. But then, Glasgow is the centre of the known universe…

*What a load of pish.

January 28

On 15/01/2024 at 18:30, Norm said:

It's a tough one. The Norman invasion brought a whole bunch of French words in to the English language down south that didn't happen up here. Our "English", or Scots, stayed truer to its Germanic roots. You can still see that with words like licht, coo and kirk.

I dunno but I'd guess the Union of the Crowns probably killed Scots as its own distinct language. When the King and Royal Court all start to speak English as opposed to Scots, it's only a matter of time before everyone else does. If that didn't happen, you'd probably see Scots and English develop in a similar way to Portuguese and Spanish.

Licht, coo, Kirk, stane, dike, ken - all sound the same as in Dutch (well, except kerk, but it's close enough!)

The North sea nations have been trading and influencing each other forever, and you can see a stronger influence on our east than west coast. My wee fife granny lived in a very Dutch looking gable ended house, when there was only one, she'd say there was ane (sounds the same as Dutch for one), and she kent things that weedgies didn't!

January 28

4 hours ago, PortyBeach said:

As part of the Anglian kingdom of Northumbria for around five centuries, their “old” English had plenty time to embed itself in what later became Lowland Scotland.
With the establishment of “Scotland”, it seems the English language north of the border developed differently - “Lowland Scots” - and as you say, remained closer to its Germanic roots.

As a result, I’d say modern day Scots are more adept at Dutch or German word pronunciation than their English counterparts.
The poetry of Edinburgh’s Robert Fergusson (whom Burns called his “Elder brother in the Muse”) is a great example of Lowland Scots - as is Burns’ work, of course.

I didn't realise all this had been covered. I'd agree, I found Dutch words much easier to sound than the English people I worked beside, the Scottish -ch was particularly useful.

January 28

Ken is an import from the Danes and or Dutch. Just like Bairns.

5 minutes ago, ǝǝɥʇᴉɯS said:

Licht, coo, Kirk, stane, dike, ken - all sound the same as in Dutch (well, except kerk, but it's close enough!)

The North sea nations have been trading and influencing each other forever, and you can see a stronger influence on our east than west coast. My wee fife granny lived in a very Dutch looking gable ended house, when there was only one, she'd say there was ane (sounds the same as Dutch for one), and she kent things that weedgies didn't!

Kirk, Barn, Keek, Coo, etc... Barn is still used in Norway? Is it not.

It's amazing Whit non Glasgow folk get away with, when talking about them, yet toys come oot the pram even It's the other way round.

A Glaswegian, An Invernessian, A Dundonian and a ***** fae Edinburgh walk into a bar.

Edited January 28 by ri Alban

January 28

1 minute ago, ri Alban said:

Ken is an import from the Danes and or Dutch. Just like Bairns.

Kirk, Barn, Keek, Coo, etc...

It's amazing Whit non Glasgow folk get away with, when talking about them, yet toys come oot the pram even It's the other way round.

A Glaswegian, An Invernessian, A Dundonian and a ***** fae Edinburgh walk into a bar.

Keek a boo!

Kijk op u!

Look at you!

January 28

Holy moly!

Kickapoo?

January 28

Just now, ǝǝɥʇᴉɯS said:

Holy moly!

Kickapoo?

No, they were a native tribe 😭

January 28

2 minutes ago, ǝǝɥʇᴉɯS said:

Keek a boo!

Kijk op u!

Look at you!

Love the auld words.

Square go at wolves game

January 28

45 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

*What a load of pish.

How would you know what’s been said to me?
If you can’t be civil to other posters then perhaps you should do us all a favour and find something better to do.

January 28

4 minutes ago, PortyBeach said:

How would you know what’s been said to me?
If you can’t be civil to other posters then perhaps you should do us all a favour and find something better to do.

I don't think that's what he meant, I think he was agreeing with you

January 28

3 hours ago, superjack said:

After living in Lewis for 26 years now, I can understand quite a lot of gaelic. My Mrs didn't have any English until she started in school. Her and the in laws were always trying to get me to speak it, but my East Coast accent made that nigh on impossible. In my head, I'm saying the words perfectly, in reality though, I'm supplying comedy for gaelic speakers.

I have trouble with Gàidhlig for a similar but different reason. I'm an Irish speaker. There's a lot of crossover between the two languages, and they use a similar alphabet and spelling for the same words. But the pronunciations aren't the same, so I'm reading words in Gàidhlig and pronouncing in Irish, which means I'm speaking neither. :mw_confused: :biggrin:

January 28

On 17/01/2024 at 15:08, ri Alban said:

There's another word from Dutch, coekje.

They had a massive influence elsewhere too as they were the first western settlers of the world's greatest melting pot, Nieuw Amsterdam, or New York as it is now.

January 28

1 minute ago, Ulysses said:

I have trouble with Gàidhlig for a similar but different reason. I'm an Irish speaker. There's a lot of crossover between the two languages, and they use a similar alphabet and spelling for the same words. But the pronunciations aren't the same, so I'm reading words in Gàidhlig and pronouncing in Irish, which means I'm speaking neither.

Ah, so you know your erse from your elbow

January 28

4 minutes ago, ǝǝɥʇᴉɯS said:

Ah, so you know your erse from your alba

Fixed that for you. :whistling:

January 28

57 minutes ago, ǝǝɥʇᴉɯS said:

I didn't realise all this had been covered. I'd agree, I found Dutch words much easier to sound than the English people I worked beside, the Scottish -ch was particularly useful.

Aye as in prettuch met u Kenis tu maken

Or nice to meet you. Or it's nice to make your Ken.

(Something like that)

Edited January 28 by That thing you do

January 28

1 hour ago, ri Alban said:

*What a load of pish.

As is this. I’ve spent a lot of time working in Glasgow and lived there for a year and it’s part of the hilarious Glasgow patter.

January 28

3 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

Fixed that for you.

Ooh good

January 28

4 minutes ago, That thing you do said:

Aye as in prettuch met u Kenis tu maken

Or nice to meet you. Or it's nice to make your Ken.

(Something like that)

I didn't know what that was until I sounded it out 👍

January 28

3 minutes ago, That thing you do said:

Aye as in prettuch met u Kenis tu maken

Or nice to meet you. Or it's nice to make your Ken.

There's no verb to "meet" in Irish. You run into someone, or your paths cross, or you "hit/bump/knock" with someone. And you make a person's Ken by "aithne a chur air", which means by "putting acquaintance on him".

January 28

5 minutes ago, ǝǝɥʇᴉɯS said:

Ooh good

Unfortunately, no pun in ten did.

I'll get me coat. :runaway:

January 28

2 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

Unfortunately, no pun in ten did.

I'll get me coat.

Ah man, and the best punchline ever!

Well, apart from He was in his cell, obvs.

January 28

No, scratch that. He pished his shell.

January 28

https://www.parliament.scot/bills-and-laws/bills/scottish-languages-bill/introduced?fbclid=IwAR1J1wuYq9OrV-fK_5ddyxQleq_c1Gtfkh7JnpVErDNQH0lNPy0-EGzDUcY

Scots Language - Gaelic - Scots - Dialects

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