Scots Language - Gaelic - Scots - Dialects

January 16

Anyone texting in 'Scots' should be lined up and shot.

January 16

January 16

10 hours ago, ri Alban said:

Scots is a language. Scottish English is just accents with the odd word thrown in.

If you're both trying to say Scots isn't a language you’re full of shit. And fwiw, no-one on hear can speak early Scots or Middle English, its feck all like the language imposed on Scotland. Christ English from the 1800 would be struggle.

They argue all they want. Scots may have originated from invisible, but it has incorporated separate additions from what would become English. The great vowel shift being the biggest change.

Anyone who thinks the Anglos and their language of immigrants from 1500 years ago still exist are delusion. Triggers brush .

Well, that’s me feckin told then.

January 16

6 hours ago, New Town Loafer said:

Anyone texting in textspeak should be lined up and shot.

FTFY. 👍

Plus, anyone typing or writing in textspeak should be shot first, then stood up and shot again.

January 16

2 hours ago, Morgan said:

FTFY. 👍

Plus, anyone typing or writing in textspeak should be shot first, then stood up and shot again.

FFS lmfao rn

January 16

January 16

5 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

FFS lmfao rn

U2, Brute?

:vrface:

January 16

18 hours ago, Ulysses said:

There is a fair amount of academic disagreement about whether Scots is a dialect or a language. I know two linguists who take a side each in that debate.

As an aside, I asked a Manx speaker once what was the difference between a dialect and a language. She replied "an army and a navy".

Whether a language or a dialect, Scots is in the same linguistic family as English and Friesian, and is also broadly related to other West Germanic languages including German, Dutch and Luxembourgish.

Gàidhlig, on the other hand, is not related to Scots or to English, and is a Goidelic language. It is very similar to Gaelg (Manx) and similar to Gaeilge (Irish), and is a more distant cousin of Welsh, Cornish and Breton.

I asked a Bulgarian colleague what we sound like. He said very German, kind of aggressive sounding.

Moving on…..I’ve often wondered why Glaswegian doesn’t use the word “ken?”

They often like to take the Mickey about it but you find it everywhere that surrounds them, Lanarkshire, Ayrshire and obviously along the central belt, Borders, up North, all use it.

There’s also debate as to where it originated? The Danes use “kennen” but there’s a version in the Netherlands too.

Edited January 16 by Debut 4

January 16

17 minutes ago, Debut 4 said:

I asked a Bulgarian colleague what we sound like. He said very German, kind of aggressive sounding.

Moving on…..I’ve often wondered why Glaswegian doesn’t use the word “ken?”

They often like to take the Mickey about it but you find it everywhere that surrounds them, Lanarkshire, Ayrshire and obviously along the central belt, Borders, up North, all use it.

There’s also debate as to where it originated? The Danes use “kennen” but there’s a version in the Netherlands too.

I've always thought "ken" was an east of Scotland "know what I mean" - Weegies frequently say "know what I mean" but never ken.

Also parts of Edinburgh where "eh?" is added at th end is the same affectation , IMO - and likely the origin of the piss takes of Canadians (and some Aussies) who do the same.

January 16

5 minutes ago, periodictabledancer said:

I've always thought "ken" was an east of Scotland "know what I mean" - Weegies frequently say "know what I mean" but never ken.

Also parts of Edinburgh where "eh?" is added at th end is the same affectation , IMO - and likely the origin of the piss takes of Canadians (and some Aussies) who do the same.

Not exclusive to the East Coast. As I say, other areas use it.

January 16

10 minutes ago, Debut 4 said:

Not exclusive to the East Coast. As I say, other areas use it.

Including Geordies

January 16

There's loads more Scots in the Edinburgh dialect than that of the Weedge.

January 16

19 hours ago, Tazio said:

As I e mentioned on many of these type of threads the words we consider Edinburgh words are traveller or Romany words. Which explains why some of them appear in places like Northumbria as well. The travellers traditionally moved up and down following the farming seasons so the language moved to the same places. And the traditional home of the king of the gypsies is in Yetholm just on the border.

Lots of Romany words used in Carlisle and environs for the reason you say.

January 16

19 hours ago, Tazio said:

And the traditional home of the king of the gypsies is in Yetholm just on the border.

And now it's Morcambe!🥊🥊

January 16

Some really interesting content on here but the use of 'hoosejocks'?

January 16

On 15/01/2024 at 11:58, Sooks said:

A lot of people do not realise that Scottish English is a language . It is

There are also an abundance of local dialects , and a great many beautiful words

What are your favourites ? Mine are

Radge , Ken , Nash , Shan

Scots is a language

Gaelic is a language

Scottish English is a dialect

January 16

5 minutes ago, That thing you do said:

Scots is a language

Gaelic is a language

Scottish English is a dialect

Yip sorry , got that the wrong way around earlier

January 16

Dub-puddle

January 16

1 hour ago, Debut 4 said:

I asked a Bulgarian colleague what we sound like. He said very German, kind of aggressive sounding.

Moving on…..I’ve often wondered why Glaswegian doesn’t use the word “ken?”

They often like to take the Mickey about it but you find it everywhere that surrounds them, Lanarkshire, Ayrshire and obviously along the central belt, Borders, up North, all use it.

There’s also debate as to where it originated? The Danes use “kennen” but there’s a version in the Netherlands too.

I saw this a while ago and thought it was quite interesting/ fun.

A few years ago a stayed in a hotel in the Canaries that was Belgian-owned and they made up most of the residents. It was a bit like the above - in the bar at night you’d overhear a conversation and think to yourself “is that Flemish or is it English and I’m a bit pi##ed?”

January 16

2 hours ago, Debut 4 said:

I asked a Bulgarian colleague what we sound like. He said very German, kind of aggressive sounding.

Moving on…..I’ve often wondered why Glaswegian doesn’t use the word “ken?”

They often like to take the Mickey about it but you find it everywhere that surrounds them, Lanarkshire, Ayrshire and obviously along the central belt, Borders, up North, all use it.

There’s also debate as to where it originated? The Danes use “kennen” but there’s a version in the Netherlands too.

Strangely enough on the back of this thread and mulling over a few words yesterday, ken being one of them, kenspeckle came up on this Radio 4 program this afternoon. It's

Etymology is probably of Scandinavian origin, which ties in. I automatically mused whether kenspeckle or something similar has been simplified over the years.

Anyway, the radio piece is quite interesting. Worth a lsiten.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m001vcfz

As is the previous program, Doctor Doctor where the host talks to Peter Greenwood an expert in Quaver-caice, and quite the character.

Interesting too.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p0gy7btw

Edited January 16 by ArcticJambo

January 16

3 hours ago, Morgan said:

U2, Brute?

Were you an English teacher?

January 16

On 15/01/2024 at 18:30, Norm said:

It's a tough one. The Norman invasion brought a whole bunch of French words in to the English language down south that didn't happen up here. Our "English", or Scots, stayed truer to its Germanic roots. You can still see that with words like licht, coo and kirk.

I dunno but I'd guess the Union of the Crowns probably killed Scots as its own distinct language. When the King and Royal Court all start to speak English as opposed to Scots, it's only a matter of time before everyone else does. If that didn't happen, you'd probably see Scots and English develop in a similar way to Portuguese and Spanish.

Funnily enough, until the 1300s or so, Scots was known as Inglis and Gaelic was known as Scottish or 'Scottice' in the auld documents.

Agree that much of 'pure' Scots is probably long forgotten. I'm not sure where the border between Scottish English and Scots lies. That said, most of us probably speak a fair bit of Scots on most days.

Am all for using our tongues as much as possible.

January 16

1 hour ago, That thing you do said:

Scots is a language

Gaelic is a language

Scottish English is a dialect

:spoton:

January 16

36 minutes ago, ArcticJambo said:

Strangely enough on the back of this thread and mulling over a few words yesterday, ken being one of them, kenspeckle came up on this Radio 4 program this afternoon. It's

Etymology is probably of Scandinavian origin, which ties in. I automatically mused whether kenspeckle or something similar has been simplified over the years.

Anyway, the radio piece is quite interesting. Worth a lsiten.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m001vcfz

As is the previous program, Doctor Doctor where the host talks to Peter Greenwood an expert in Quaver-caice, and quite the character. Interesting too.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p0gy7btw

👍🏻

January 16

30 minutes ago, Ked said:

Were you an English teacher?

No, Ked, I wasn’t.

I was an accountant/archivist before giving up work at the age of 42.

January 16

23 hours ago, henrysmithsgloves said:

Speug* spelling?

Boaby.

Fugly.

Keepin shoatie.

😆 Not heard that in years! Not that I do it much these days, likes...

January 16

On 15/01/2024 at 21:40, Dawnrazor said:

Sparrow?

Thats a spyuggy or a spyug. My dad still calls them that now. Hes 92 & from New Craighall originally.

January 16

42 minutes ago, Gundermann said:

😆 Not heard that in years! Not that I do it much these days, likes...

🤫🤐😆

January 16

3 hours ago, Debut 4 said:

Not exclusive to the East Coast. As I say, other areas use it.

Friends from the Kilmarnock area say “I dont ken” instead of “ Ah dinny ken”. Sounds weird to me.

January 16

3 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

Thats a spyuggy or a spyug. My dad still calls them that now. Hes 92 & from New Craighall originally.

Aye, I wasn't sure of the spelling and what Boof said looked like it was the correct spelling. It's still speug/spyug for a Sparrow, Stucky/Stuggy for a Starling, Whaup for a Curlew, Hoodie for a Carrion Crow and ***** for a Hibby for me still.

January 16

1 minute ago, Dawnrazor said:

Aye, I wasn't sure of the spelling and what Boof said looked like it was the correct spelling. It's still speug/spyug for a Sparrow, Stucky/Stuggy for a Starling, Whaup for a Curlew, Hoodie for a Carrion Crow and ***** for a Hibby for me still.

👍

January 16

21 hours ago, Tazio said:

It’s interesting how the Isle Of Man is sort of forgotten a lot in terms of history and where it sits in it.

at one point it was legal to shoot a Scotsman over here once they stepped on to the island!

Yes most people don’t know much about the Isle of Man and its varied history - Viking occupation , Scottish occupation by Edward Bruce etc etc

There are still a couple of schools here trying to keep the Manx language alive but in reality there are no native speakers left and the Manx are well outnumbered by incomers now and the previously huge cultural differences are fast disappearing as it becomes basically a part of North West England

January 17

1 hour ago, The White Cockade said:

at one point it was legal to shoot a Scotsman over here once they stepped on to the island!

Yes most people don’t know much about the Isle of Man and its varied history - Viking occupation , Scottish occupation by Edward Bruce etc etc

There are still a couple of schools here trying to keep the Manx language alive but in reality there are no native speakers left and the Manx are well outnumbered by incomers now and the previously huge cultural differences are fast disappearing as it becomes basically a part of North West England

It's said that the last native Manx speaker was Ned Maddrell, who died in 1974, and the death of the last native speaker is often considered to be the point at which a language dies. But I think the death of a language happens earlier. There are still a few thousand native speakers of the Goidelic languages of Ireland and Scotland left - but I don't think there is anyone left alive in either country who wasn't also raised with a strong presence of the English language in their lives, whether at home, at school, or in the community around them. In the case of a minority language, once the last monolingual speakers are gone it is usually only a matter of time before the language becomes a museum piece.

Edited January 17 by Ulysses
Oops, bad typo fixed.

January 17

Voice recognition for the Scottish accent 🤣🤣

Edited January 17 by henrysmithsgloves

January 17

Person, I think we should have all been taught sign language. Surely the world could come up with a universe sign language that would break down barriers and bring everyone closer. I suppose their no money in that, and war is a must for a fecked up economy and government.

January 17

Only peasants spoke English, BTW. If they didn't keep it alive, England would be speaking Real French, not this English French.

January 17

12 hours ago, periodictabledancer said:

Also parts of Edinburgh where "eh?" is added at th end is the same affectation , IMO - and likely the origin of the piss takes of Canadians (and some Aussies) who do the same.

And Kiwis.

January 17

2 hours ago, ri Alban said:

Only peasants spoke English, BTW. If they didn't keep it alive, England would be speaking Real French, not this English French.

And you would still be speaking broken biscuits.

January 17

28 minutes ago, il Duce McTarkin said:

And you would still be speaking broken biscuits.

Biscuits cassés

January 17

9 hours ago, Ulysses said:

It's said that the last native Manx speaker was Ned Maddrell, who died in 1974, and the death of the last native speaker is often considered to be the point at which a language dies. But I think the death of a language happens earlier. There are still a few thousand native speakers of the Goidelic languages of Ireland and Scotland left - but I don't think there is anyone left alive in either country who wasn't also raised with a strong presence of the English language in their lives, whether at home, at school, or in the community around them. In the case of a minority language, once the last monolingual speakers are gone it is usually only a matter of time before the language becomes a museum piece.

if you’ve seen the film Waking Ned that was filmed in Cregneash which was Ned’s village His Manx cottage is still there and the village is now a museum

You can listen to to him talking in recordings at the Manx Museum

I think Eamon De Valera visited the island in the 30’s and was involved in researching and recording Manx speakers

January 17

11 hours ago, Ulysses said:

It's said that the last native Manx speaker was Ned Maddrell, who died in 1974, and the death of the last native speaker is often considered to be the point at which a language dies. But I think the death of a language happens earlier. There are still a few thousand native speakers of the Goidelic languages of Ireland and Scotland left - but I don't think there is anyone left alive in either country who wasn't also raised with a strong presence of the English language in their lives, whether at home, at school, or in the community around them. In the case of a minority language, once the last monolingual speakers are gone it is usually only a matter of time before the language becomes a museum piece.

Similar to the movement of people speaking Cornish and their recent fashionable independence claims. I remember as a kid having a big encyclopaedia of the United Kingdom and there was a bit about the last Cornish speaker passing away in the (I think) 1800’s. So anyone who speaks Cornish now is a revivalist of a language and not preserving it from vanishing. A thing made even more difficult as it died out before recording techniques existed so unless a linguist noted the correct pronunciations it will most likely involve some guesswork and take its leads from Welsh or Breton.

Edited January 17 by Tazio

January 17

2 hours ago, The White Cockade said:

if you’ve seen the film Waking Ned that was filmed in Cregneash which was Ned’s village His Manx cottage is still there and the village is now a museum

You can listen to to him talking in recordings at the Manx Museum

I think Eamon De Valera visited the island in the 30’s and was involved in researching and recording Manx speakers

I can understand a fair bit of Manx when I'm listening to it, but reading it wrecks my head. With Gàidhlig I can make out some of it when reading, but a lot less when listening.

January 17

24 minutes ago, Tazio said:

Similar to the movement of people speaking Cornish and their recent fashionable independence claims. I remember as a kid having a big encyclopaedia of the United Kingdom and there was a bit about the last Cornish speaker passing away in the (I think) 1800’s. So anyone who speaks Cornish now is a revivalist of a language and not preserving it from vanishing. A thing made even more difficult as it died out before recording techniques existed so unless a linguist noted the correct pronunciations it will most likely involve some guesswork and take its leads from Welsh or Breton.

Someone's had a go at imagining what Old and Middle English sounded like and then doing song covers. One of the amusing touches is that they've adapted some of the lyrics to try to avoid anachronisms.

I've no idea how they decided what Old and Middle English sounded like, though.

January 17

7 hours ago, il Duce McTarkin said:

And you would still be speaking broken biscuits.

:HeartsMandance:

January 17

7 hours ago, il Duce McTarkin said:

And you would still be speaking broken biscuits.

giphy.webp?cid=6c09b952heut1sm0gn5kwq3jm

6 hours ago, henrysmithsgloves said:

Biscuits cassés

January 17

On 16/01/2024 at 08:56, New Town Loafer said:

Anyone texting in 'Scots' should be lined up and shot.

Go for it!

January 17

2 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

Go for it!

I don't have a gun! But I may shoot them with a withering glare.

January 17

1 minute ago, New Town Loafer said:

I don't have a gun! But I may shoot them with a withering glare.

:laugh:

January 17

6 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

Are you accepting all cookies, or just the essential ones? 🍪

January 17

Lots of connections between Dutch/Flemish and Scots. Kirk, Water (pronounced v/watter), ken jij pronounced ken ye for do you know etc

When I lived in Belgium and still played football the favourite ironic dig from the flemish speaking teams was 'ken jij Cruyff' after someone fell on their backside trying a fancy move

Scots Language - Gaelic - Scots - Dialects

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