Var ( merged )

[heartsfc_fan]

Complete farce the whole thing

[Doctor FinnBarr]

2 hours ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

You can be certain that if it had been McCausland brought down, a penalty and Redcar would have been end result.

 

As much as I don't like McC sending him to Redcar is very harsh indeed.

[Malinga the Swinga]

Just now, Doctor FinnBarr said:

 

As much as I don't like McC sending him to Redcar is very harsh indeed.

A quick dash over 6 furlongs would sort him out.

[Jack Torrance]

I agree with Naisy. I don't think the on-field ref could be sure there was contact and therefore booked him for diving. I reckon he will have accepted it would be overturned if VAR reviewed it and confirmed the contact.

 

This seems to be the approach referees are expected to take now. Problem is, their on-field decision-making skills are getting lazy as a result of VAR, an unintended consequence.

 

The on-field referee team should be expected to go with their gut instinct, rather than hoping VAR will catch things.

 

That decision today, was terrible.

Edited December 30, 2023 by Jack Torrance

[Malinga the Swinga]

Just now, Jack Torrance said:

I agree with Naisy. I don't think the on-field ref could be sure there was contact and therefore booked him for diving. I reckon he will have accepted it would be overturned if VAR reviewed it and confirmed the contact.

 

This seems to be the approach referees are expected to take now. Problem is, their on-field decision-making skills are getting lazy as a result of VAR, an unintemded consequence.

 

The on-field referee team should be expected to go with their gut instinct, rather than hoping VAR will catch things.

 

That decision today, was terrible.

I'm not so sure. Refs don't always issue cards, there are many occasions when they don't, yet both Kingsley and Forrest have been carded within seconds of incidents.

Today's VAR was utterly ridiculous.

[Bazzas right boot]

2 hours ago, TheBigO said:

Not VAR related but lets not overlook the clear as day foul 22 yards out on Cochrane at 2-2. He's bursting through and you'll never see a clearer foul. Its an easy decision. Just obvious.

 

Nope. Nothing. Instead they break on us.

 

2-2, freekick 22 yards out in the middle of the goal, with Kingsley on the park..

 

Its a massive moment in the match.

 

And Oda in injury time getting away from his man out on the touchline so clearly pulled back. Not as pivotal but again just an obvious decision. If theres no foul, oda is awatmy from him and could head into the box.

 

The Cochrane one was ridiculous.

 

 

[Jack Torrance]

7 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

I'm not so sure. Refs don't always issue cards, there are many occasions when they don't, yet both Kingsley and Forrest have been carded within seconds of incidents.

Today's VAR was utterly ridiculous.

 

Agreed, but what I'm saying is if there was no VAR, I think his gut instinct would have been to award a penalty. Instead, he's taken what he feels to be a safe option, expecting VAR to either back him up or overturn it.

 

I think the system is making our on-field refs, lazy and, unbelievably, less skillful.

 

I'm actually pro-VAR, but it has to be done properly, and today, it wasn't.

[1953]

Just watched the highlights. So only the 2 stonewall penalties that we should have had today but the ref and var gave us a yellow card instead. 😜

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

In teems of VAR review time, how long did the review on their disallowed goal take compared to the foul on Forrest? They were desperate to overturn a clear offside for the former.

[HeartsandonlyHearts]

2 hours ago, tcjambo said:

And like Levein refuse to pay

This. Make them bring it up every time they double the fine and it becomes news. Our team is getting screwed on a regular basis and it’s time for Hearts to at least bring it up in public. Our officials face absolutely no repercussions for their weekly $#!t displays and then make 1000 pounds the next week and do it all over again. Hearts have to call them out or we become just as much an enabler as the associations running our game.

Time to grow a pair.

[HeartsandonlyHearts]

49 minutes ago, Jack Torrance said:

 

Agreed, but what I'm saying is if there was no VAR, I think his gut instinct would have been to award a penalty. Instead, he's taken what he feels to be a safe option, expecting VAR to either back him up or overturn it.

 

I think the system is making our on-field refs, lazy and, unbelievably, less skillful.

 

I'm actually pro-VAR, but it has to be done properly, and today, it wasn't.

VAR can’t be done properly in Scotland. Just as officials referee OF games differently to other games they also officiate VAR differently. A second class football league run by third class association. 

[Sooperstar]

The worst thing for me is how quickly they checked it. It was very clearly an incident which deserved a proper look. But the check was over in seconds, which says it was no more than a customary glance. They spent far longer checking a clear offside early on in the match. If it was a TV game they'd have spent 5 minutes checking every angle in infinite detail. It shouldn't matter if the game is on TV or not. 

[Canscot]

3 hours ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

Why are Rangers even complaining about it?  It was offside!  Or was there another one in the 2nd half?

Saw their managers post game interview. He more or less claimed they said it was offside so they could cover up a mistake!  If our manager said that a fine would be incoming no doubt. 

[Jambof3tornado]

I'd love to know exactly how long they actually took to check forrests penalty claim? 

If the ref was sure enough there was no contact to give the yellow for simulation...how sure could he really be given....well given the CONTACT!!!!????

[tiger Rudi]

54 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

In teems of VAR review time, how long did the review on their disallowed goal take compared to the foul on Forrest? They were desperate to overturn a clear offside for the former.

That pissed me off. It was clearly offside on the highlights. Why did it take so long when it was so fekn obvious? No VAR check came up on the screen for the Forrest "dive" and the game started almost immediately. Hearts need to appeal and do the same as Rangers. That clearly wrong decision changed the whole game. 

[DS98]

3 minutes ago, Jambof3tornado said:

I'd love to know exactly how long they actually took to check forrests penalty claim? 

If the ref was sure enough there was no contact to give the yellow for simulation...how sure could he really be given....well given the CONTACT!!!!????

This is the question Hearts should be asking. How could David Munro possibly be satisfied the ref got it right in such a short space of time. It didn’t seem like there was any pause in play at all! Free kick County, yellow card, keeper takes free kick. That was a massive decision, biggest of the game and VAR had to be sure he got it right. He could only possibly have re watched it once or twice from minimal angles in the time play was stopped. 
 

Just another arrogant wee nyaff that was bullied at school with dislike for Hearts. 

[liam11]

David Munro on VAR. The same ref that decided a kick to Boyces chest wasn’t clear enough. Also was the fourth official caught smirking away to himself at Hampden during the Rangers semi.

 

Guy is a f*****g rat

[Canscot]

11 minutes ago, liam11 said:

David Munro on VAR. The same ref that decided a kick to Boyces chest wasn’t clear enough. Also was the fourth official caught smirking away to himself at Hampden during the Rangers semi.

 

Guy is a f*****g rat

I think “The Smirker” was Beaton. Could be wrong though🤔
 

Edit: Just checked online.  Both wrong mate. It was David Dickinson. 

Edited December 31, 2023 by Canscot

[periodictabledancer]

1 hour ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

In teems of VAR review time, how long did the review on their disallowed goal take compared to the foul on Forrest? They were desperate to overturn a clear offside for the former.

This. 

The ref didn't hesitate and wait for  VAR review,  he just flashed the yellow card.

Then we have VAR looking at video evidence (allegedly inconclusive) and finding nothing to indicate a clear & obvious error. 

I'd be quite happy for Hearts to say , politely, they're withdrawing all support (epsecially financial) as it's quite clear the match officials are every bit as bad as we'd feared , prior to VAR.  

[cazzyy]

4 hours ago, gjcc said:

It’s because there was no communication that it was due to the offside. Everyone in the stadium including commentators (for several minutes) weren’t aware that’s why the penalty wasn’t given. 

 

The fact that the referee restarted the game with a goal kick tells you that offside wasn't the reason the penalty wasn't given. Also the SFA themselves stated that it wasn't given because the hand movement wasn't unnatural and didn't make his silhouette bigger.

The offside was discovered later and used to cover up their earlier mistake.

[gjcc]

20 minutes ago, cazzyy said:

 

The fact that the referee restarted the game with a goal kick tells you that offside wasn't the reason the penalty wasn't given. Also the SFA themselves stated that it wasn't given because the hand movement wasn't unnatural and didn't make his silhouette bigger.

The offside was discovered later and used to cover up their earlier mistake.

Thanks. Watching sportscene just now and noted that. Absolute farce. 

[muldoon74]

3 hours ago, Doctor FinnBarr said:

 

As much as I don't like McC sending him to Redcar is very harsh indeed.

Agreed, I've been to Redcar and it would indeed be a punishment that doesn't fit the crime.. 

[Fozzyonthefence]

1 hour ago, Canscot said:

Saw their managers post game interview. He more or less claimed they said it was offside so they could cover up a mistake!  If our manager said that a fine would be incoming no doubt. 

Aye, apparently Celtic took a goal kick after it so it wasn’t given as offside on the 18 yard line!  Presumably complaining about the cover up rather than not getting a penalty then (since it couldn’t have been a penalty)?  So they got the right decision by mistake, a bit like McTominay’s free kick v Spain being disallowed for a foul when it should have been disallowed for offside. 

[OTT]

3 hours ago, Bazzas right boot said:

 

The Cochrane one was ridiculous.

 

 

 

Alan Muirs performance was insulting. Every major call wrong. That isn't a man capable of refereeing top flight football anymore. 

[gregzy2k7]

Rename this thread "Var officials" have said before there is nothing wrong with Var its just the unqualified humans running it that are screwing us over big time, you'd be as well letting A.I run it, at least you wouldn't get incompetence or biased corrupt weegie cants.

[Shaggy2]

I’m as far away as you can be from the Atkinson claim but having seen it on TV and especially in comparison to the free-kick they received (which I’m not sure of but Hoff didn’t complain) when they scored it’s an absolute stonewaller. Atkinson is past the defender and he just dives across him. Absolutely mental how that’s not an infringement. 😂

Edited December 31, 2023 by Shaggy2

[Turkishcap]

Saw on YT liedowns 2 clear penalties but why var on both, clear as day.

Refs so scared now.

[Harry Potter]

7 hours ago, OTT said:

 

Alan Muirs performance was insulting. Every major call wrong. That isn't a man capable of refereeing top flight football anymore. 

Couldnae ref a subbuteo match🤡, who trains these guys.

[upgotheheads]

I knew VAR was only going to present a different set of problems. We should remember that there were loads of mistakes before it arrived, and the good thing now is that the 'errors' (or cheating if you like) are highlighted, to the embarrassment of the refs and VAR specialists.  At the Forrest incident, the VAR officials just didn't do their job properly by looking at all the angles, They should be suspended and sent for re-training, or maybe just sacked.

VAR isn't the problem, it's the people doing it.

Edited December 31, 2023 by upgotheheads

[karipidis]

Having seen the Atkinson incident again, which I didn’t think there was much in it at the time, that looks a clear penalty as well.

 

And as for the foul on Cochrane on the edge of the box that wasn’t given…

[Jamhammer]

Spoiler

 

 

BBC able to show the contact clear as day by VAR couldnt

Stinks

Edited December 31, 2023 by Jamhammer

[Tommy Brown]

11 hours ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

In teems of VAR review time, how long did the review on their disallowed goal take compared to the foul on Forrest? They were desperate to overturn a clear offside for the former.

The time taken was ridiculous.

It was clearly offside.

 

I welcomed var, but it's poor implementation up here and in the EPL is turning supporters against it.

[Tommy Brown]

32 minutes ago, upgotheheads said:

I knew VAR was only going to present a different set of problems. We should remember that there were loads of mistakes before it arrived, and the good thing now is that the 'errors' (or cheating if you like) are highlighted, to the embarrassment of the refs and VAR specialists.  At the Forrest incident, the VAR officials just didn't do their job properly by looking at all the angles, They should be suspended and sent for re-training, or maybe just sacked.

VAR isn't the problem, it's the people doing it.

This

[Percival King]

8 hours ago, OTT said:

 

Alan Muirs performance was insulting. Every major call wrong. That isn't a man capable of refereeing top flight football anymore. 

At least he made Ross County's number 11 leave the pitch at the nearest exit point when he was being subbed rather allowing him to across the pitch. He got that right! 

[Hearts_fan]

I want to hear Hearts make public their remarks to the SFA about this. They should politely ask that the VAR audio of the incident be made public also.

 

If the error is down to incompetence alone, then that has to be addressed. If it’s something else, we need to have this examined transparently in public.

 

Either way, we they fans are paying collectively millions of pounds to watch games play out in non-sporting ways. It’s simply not good enough. We genuinely would most likely be on 35 points today had VAR awarded that penalty. 

[Hearts_fan]

20 minutes ago, karipidis said:

Having seen the Atkinson incident again, which I didn’t think there was much in it at the time, that looks a clear penalty as well.

 

And as for the foul on Cochrane on the edge of the box that wasn’t given…

 

Yep, the Atkinson one looked well dodgy at the time to me, and Sportscene later shows it’s a stonewall penalty. It wasn’t even an footballing tackle, it was more akin to a crap rugby tackle, just wiped Atkinson out with no attempt to play the ball.

 

John Beaton was bizarrely inconspicuous on Wednesday night against Hibs, but other than that the state of refereeing that we’re seeing – game-in, game-out – is utterly shocking. It’s abysmal.

[RENE]

Are the refs able to ask VAR to look at an incident as the weren't sure?

[Cruickie's Moustache]

Maybe a silly question but is there an agree number of cameras that can be used for VAR and who controls them.

 

Should we just provide extra cameras at Tynie so there is moore chance of an honest game for  everyone.

 

So for example should we have cameras on both sides of the penalty box as yesterday  the Forest incident  may have been clearer from a camera on the main staand side.

 

No images seemed to be shown from there. 

[Jack Torrance]

I'd like to see us having VAR officials from another country, checking the decisions. They're in an office somewhere remote anyway and it would help minimise the possibility of bias.

 

It'll never happen though as it would be an admission of failure by the idiots running our game here.

 

There's already a precedent with them bringing in officials during the strike.

 

As mentioned earlier, it's not an issue with VAR, it's the idiots running it.

[upgotheheads]

I assume Hearts will appeal the yellow card which will embarrass the ref and VAR officials.

[micole]

2 hours ago, upgotheheads said:

I assume Hearts will appeal the yellow card which will embarrass the ref and VAR officials.

Not sure you can appeal a yellow...🤷‍♂️....anyhoo nothing wrong with VAR it's the incompetent/corrupt officials that operate it....😡

[Sooperstar]

5 hours ago, RENE said:

Are the refs able to ask VAR to look at an incident as the weren't sure?

Yes, they're constantly chatting to the VAR team and explaining what they think they have seen and why they have made a decision. As part of the conversations they might ask the VAR to double check something or take a closer look just to be sure. 

[part_time_jambo]

22 hours ago, flem said:

Keeper should be sent off as well so this incompetent decision completely changes the game. 

Were the rules not changed? I don't think the keeper would have  been sent off if a penalty was given.

[Jamhammer]

6 minutes ago, part_time_jambo said:

Were the rules not changed? I don't think the keeper would have  been sent off if a penalty was given.

Nah it’s like a double jeopardy thing

[RENE]

25 minutes ago, Sooperstar said:

Yes, they're constantly chatting to the VAR team and explaining what they think they have seen and why they have made a decision. As part of the conversations they might ask the VAR to double check something or take a closer look just to be sure. 

Ta.

[Sub4TiddlerMurray]

19 hours ago, Jack Torrance said:

I agree with Naisy. I don't think the on-field ref could be sure there was contact and therefore booked him for diving. I reckon he will have accepted it would be overturned if VAR reviewed it and confirmed the contact.

 

This seems to be the approach referees are expected to take now. Problem is, their on-field decision-making skills are getting lazy as a result of VAR, an unintended consequence.

 

The on-field referee team should be expected to go with their gut instinct, rather than hoping VAR will catch things.

 

That decision today, was terrible.

If the ref was unsure about the contact, how could he be sure it was a dive? 🤔
 

[Sub4TiddlerMurray]

22 minutes ago, part_time_jambo said:

Were the rules not changed? I don't think the keeper would have  been sent off if a penalty was given.

pretty sure if it prevents a clear goal scoring opportunity it is a red

[cazzyy]

7 hours ago, Percival King said:

At least he made Ross County's number 11 leave the pitch at the nearest exit point when he was being subbed rather allowing him to across the pitch. He got that right! 

 

There's an argument to say that he shouldn't have made the player leave where he did. The rules allow it if there is a player safety issue and that County player was taking dog's abuse from supporters at the front of the Wheatfield. To book him for pointing this out was ridiculous, that incident could have ended badly.

[i wish jj was my dad]

7 hours ago, upgotheheads said:

I knew VAR was only going to present a different set of problems. We should remember that there were loads of mistakes before it arrived, and the good thing now is that the 'errors' (or cheating if you like) are highlighted, to the embarrassment of the refs and VAR specialists.  At the Forrest incident, the VAR officials just didn't do their job properly by looking at all the angles, They should be suspended and sent for re-training, or maybe just sacked.

VAR isn't the problem, it's the people doing it.

I think you are right. It's the arseholes employed to deploy VAR rather than the technology. 

VAR gets involved unnecessarily because officials are 

desperate to find something that isn't obvious and spend forever dissecting incidents trying to find it. Then it doesn't get involved in incidents that 18k inside the ground could see  but one ref and one fan saw differently. 

 

[Jim Panzee]

6 hours ago, Jack Torrance said:

I'd like to see us having VAR officials from another country, checking the decisions. They're in an office somewhere remote anyway and it would help minimise the possibility of bias.

 

It'll never happen though as it would be an admission of failure by the idiots running our game here.

 

There's already a precedent with them bringing in officials during the strike.

 

As mentioned earlier, it's not an issue with VAR, it's the idiots running it.

I’ve said it a few times now. In cricket the move to have umpires (in internationals) from countries not involved in the game lead to an 18% or 19% improvement in correct decisions.

 

Consistency is key. Why did VAR appear to actively / desperately hunt for a penalty to the rangers in our game v them earlier in the season? and that was for an instance where not a single player or official on the pitch had an inkling there’d been a potential foul.

but yesterday we have a clear incident which VAR needed to check - and if VAR did check - it was done in seconds.

 

the optics on this are terrible. And I - and others on here - have English mates who are noticing. Just makes our league look amateurish,