Foley deal with Hibs approved ( updated )

[hughesie27]

3 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

Aside from a couple of games in Europe I’m not sure how else they increased their day to day turnover considerably.  Not material change in gates or ST  I’ve not heard them do anything magical on the hospitality front either but then again I don’t pay much attention. 
 

To clarify I’ve ZERO doubt their turnover will increase but IMO that will have been based on assumption and will recognise in some way  this investment.

 

the bigger question, will they see a sustained increase in turnover?  papped out of the cup early, no Europe, a lower league placing and unlikely to progress to the next round in the SC. I don’t really see how.

 

again, I’m not really paying much attention to what they do so may be wrong on all of the above and they don’t some spectacular things behind the scenes to grow the business by 50% in 2 years that I’m not aware of 
 

 

Yeah over the last year or so they've significantly upgraded their hospitality offerings which has brought in the extra cash. Player sales too I think but that's not guaranteed  (or even expected with this mob!)

 

I think those upgrades is what caused them to owe the Gordons millions.

Edited February 28 by hughesie27

[Mikey1874]

1 hour ago, Deevers said:

The seeds of that have been sown  by some high profile posters over there.  Vociferous and at times really nasty often and determined that that it should fail. I wonder why?

 

Hero Tom Farmer really ended them but Ron Gordon made it clear he wanted full control with no place for other than token fan involvement #ponyup

[Mikey1874]

1 hour ago, kingantti1874 said:

A one off £6m? Most of which will be used to offset current losses? 
 

They’d need £6m per season to close the current gap to ourselves, that was before the hotel opened. A one off £6 won’t even be as much as we should get from Europe next season given the revised format.

 

so no I think we can sleep safely.

 

That's an interesting question. Hibs before and at their AGM said there current income is better than the signed off £5.7 million losses. Maybe future losses will become shares again too. Gordon family are reported to have gone from 67% to 60% so room for that to be changed by debt to shares.

Edited February 28 by Mikey1874

[Mikey1874]

54 minutes ago, Australis said:

Money going on building a new training hub and a stadium for their women's team.

 

Just look at so many Hearts fans comments on our women's team thread

 

They dont want a penny wasted on them here.

 

Imagine plenty wee team fans will be the same.

 

 

You think we have trouble with some supporters complaining about money being spent on a women's team.

 

Something to look forward to.

[Der Kaiser]

14 hours ago, DesertDawg said:

 

Can you explain how that works?

 

Well if my understanding is correct, it's about clubs owned by the same person/business loaning each other players with no money needing to change hands.

 

A club can be loaned a player and pay no fees or percentage of wages as the other and possibly more wealthier club will cover that cost. 

 

 

[soonbe110]

44 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

Ok their existing debt disappears but the losses don’t.  they still spend more money on players than they should be spending in relation to their turnover.

 

i accept that interst on loans goes away for now but that’s not massive really. 
 

They’d need £6m per season to close the gap imo 

Depends on what gap you refer to. If a benefactor was to give them £2m pa for the playing side that would be five or six players on £5k pw.  I suspect that could  close the gap on the field pretty quickly. 

[busbyfth]

The wretches pay off their debt, so £2m left....that'll go on paying off all the managers they jettisoned.

They are now a pseudo feeder club which will provide playing facilities for Bournmouths third team (and youngest second team prospects) to progress through the ranks and toughen up/get experience of playing first team football.

 IDENTITY HAS NOW BEEN SOLD OFF !!!

[kingantti1874]

3 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

Depends on what gap you refer to. If a benefactor was to give them £2m pa for the playing side that would be five or six players on £5k pw.  I suspect that could  close the gap on the field pretty quickly. 

last reported account for both clubs we spend £5.4 million a season more on wages. Now all things are not equal so that won’t all Be on playing staff but let’s be conservative and say 50% of it is . £2.7m

 

They have spent this sum of £10m whilst at an unsustainable wage to turnover ratio.  If their turnover does increase to £15m as the claim, and they run at 65% that’s £9.75m.  Now I’ll take them at face value on both the expected turnover on the back of this investment and the wage to turnover ration they are aiming for whilst also claiming they will be self sustaining. 
 

I don’t see any huge hike in wages based on their own claims.  It doesn’t really add up, also.  Let’s not forget hearts expected annual turnover without Europe is expected to be closer to £20m. .

 

im not saying hibs can’t close the gap. But will take materially more than a one off £6m. 

[Mikey1874]

2 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

last reported account for both clubs we spend £5.4 million a season more on wages. Now all things are not equal so that won’t all Be on playing staff but let’s be conservative and say 50% of it is . £2.7m

 

They have spent this sum of £10m whilst at an unsustainable wage to turnover ratio.  If their turnover does increase to £15m as the claim, and they run at 65% that’s £9.75m.  Now I’ll take them at face value on both the expected turnover on the back of this investment and the wage to turnover ration they are aiming for whilst also claiming they will be self sustaining. 
 

I don’t see any huge hike in wages based on their own claims.  It doesn’t really add up, also.  Let’s not forget hearts expected annual turnover without Europe is expected to be closer to £20m. .

 

im not saying hibs can’t close the gap. But will take materially more than a one off £6m. 

 

Levitt, Vente and Le Fondre big money wages. That is the area of risk for them. 

 

To be fair early signs are fairly positive with loan signings Marcondes, Maolida and Moriah-Welsh so that's where they can balance the wages. 

[RustyRightPeg]

20 minutes ago, Der Kaiser said:

 

Well if my understanding is correct, it's about clubs owned by the same person/business loaning each other players with no money needing to change hands.

 

A club can be loaned a player and pay no fees or percentage of wages as the other and possibly more wealthier club will cover that cost. 

 

 

 

That's what they're doing with Marcondes.

 

Hibs also 'bought' the new lad in central midfield from Bournemouth too, as well as the loan for Bevan before they cut it short. Was already happening before the deal was concluded.

[PTBCAL]

45 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

Aside from a couple of games in Europe I’m not sure how else they increased their day to day turnover considerably.  Not material change in gates or ST  I’ve not heard them do anything magical on the hospitality front either but then again I don’t pay much attention. 
 

To clarify I’ve ZERO doubt their turnover will increase but IMO that will have been based on assumption and will recognise in some way  this investment.

 

the bigger question, will they see a sustained increase in turnover?  papped out of the cup early, no Europe, a lower league placing and unlikely to progress to the next round in the SC. I don’t really see how.

 

again, I’m not really paying much attention to what they do so may be wrong on all of the above and they don’t some spectacular things behind the scenes to grow the business by 50% in 2 years that I’m not aware of 
 

 

They have spent a significant sum on improving their corporate facilities. From what I have heard they are impressive and important revenue stream for them. I may be wrong but I think we are behind them in this respect but I am talking about match day only 

[OTT]

1 minute ago, PTBCAL said:

They have spent a significant sum on improving their corporate facilities. From what I have heard they are impressive and important revenue stream for them. I may be wrong but I think we are behind them in this respect but I am talking about match day only 

 

Aren't our corporate facilities in the new main stand?

 

I'm not doubting you, but I'd also be a bit surprised if our facilities weren't better from the outset now? 

[RustyRightPeg]

Just now, OTT said:

 

Aren't our corporate facilities in the new main stand?

 

I'm not doubting you, but I'd also be a bit surprised if our facilities weren't better from the outset now? 

 

There's are impressive but I think we could better them if we sunk some dough into renovating the gorgie suite. 

[kingantti1874]

8 minutes ago, PTBCAL said:

They have spent a significant sum on improving their corporate facilities. From what I have heard they are impressive and important revenue stream for them. I may be wrong but I think we are behind them in this respect but I am talking about match day only 

Id be surprised if hibs take significantly more on a match day than we do tbh.  Still could be wrong but would be surprising.  And that’s no slight on their facilities at all as I’ve never been 

Edited February 28 by kingantti1874

[1971fozzy]

The BKs have said there won’t be any loan facilities to Hibs so they really are going to have to live within their means. Cant see the Gordon’s lending any more money either.  

[highlandjambo3]

15 hours ago, luckyBatistuta said:

 

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣aye….sure

[Bungalow Bill]

9 minutes ago, PTBCAL said:

They have spent a significant sum on improving their corporate facilities. From what I have heard they are impressive and important revenue stream for them. I may be wrong but I think we are behind them in this respect but I am talking about match day only 

My wife (also a Hearts fan) has been to hospitality at ER twice, both derbies too. She says the hospitality is pretty good. 

[OTT]

6 minutes ago, RustyRightPeg said:

 

There's are impressive but I think we could better them if we sunk some dough into renovating the gorgie suite. 

 

Cheers, I've got to say I'm really surprised and a bit disappointed to hear that this is the case. Having not long ago spent over £20m on a new stand, I'm a bit flabbergasted we weren't already at a "best facilities outside the OF" sort of position. Although, maybe with costs as they were, this might have been something to be improved on at a later date - which actually makes complete sense TBH.

 

I suppose at least they can be upgraded! 

[1971fozzy]

2 minutes ago, OTT said:

 

Cheers, I've got to say I'm really surprised and a bit disappointed to hear that this is the case. Having not long ago spent over £20m on a new stand, I'm a bit flabbergasted we weren't already at a "best facilities outside the OF" sort of position. Although, maybe with costs as they were, this might have been something to be improved on at a later date - which actually makes complete sense TBH.

 

I suppose at least they can be upgraded! 

our facilities are at least on a par with theirs. Easily.

Ive some Hibbys in the family friends circle and been to a few functions there unfortunately and unless they’ve done some complete overhaul in the last 6 months I’d arguably say ours is better.

[RustyRightPeg]

4 minutes ago, OTT said:

 

Cheers, I've got to say I'm really surprised and a bit disappointed to hear that this is the case. Having not long ago spent over £20m on a new stand, I'm a bit flabbergasted we weren't already at a "best facilities outside the OF" sort of position. Although, maybe with costs as they were, this might have been something to be improved on at a later date - which actually makes complete sense TBH.

 

I suppose at least they can be upgraded! 

 

It's a tricky one with the Gorgie Suite. Serves it's purpose but I always find it quite stuffy and gloomy inside. Maybe the lack of natural light but I think any upgrade to the place needs to start there, making it brighter and more airy if possible.

[RustyRightPeg]

1 minute ago, 1971fozzy said:

our facilities are at least on a par with theirs. Easily.

Ive some Hibbys in the family friends circle and been to a few functions there unfortunately and unless they’ve done some complete overhaul in the last 6 months I’d arguably say ours is better.

 

They have had an overhaul.

[highlandjambo3]

20 minutes ago, PTBCAL said:

They have spent a significant sum on improving their corporate facilities. From what I have heard they are impressive and important revenue stream for them. I may be wrong but I think we are behind them in this respect but I am talking about match day only 

Copying us again then.

[1971fozzy]

1 minute ago, RustyRightPeg said:

 

They have had an overhaul.

As have we and I was wondering how much more they can do with it apart from revamp bogs etc. it’s not the Waldorf I’d bet which is what they appear to be spouting. 

[RustyRightPeg]

3 minutes ago, 1971fozzy said:

As have we and I was wondering how much more they can do with it apart from revamp bogs etc. it’s not the Waldorf I’d bet which is what they appear to be spouting. 

 

On their website. 

[buzzbomb1958]

1 hour ago, busbyfth said:

The wretches pay off their debt, so £2m left....that'll go on paying off all the managers they jettisoned.

They are now a pseudo feeder club which will provide playing facilities for Bournmouths third team (and youngest second team prospects) to progress through the ranks and toughen up/get experience of playing first team football.

 IDENTITY HAS NOW BEEN SOLD OFF !!!

Should be singing You’re not Hibees anymore loud and clear tonight that will piss them right off

[1971fozzy]

8 minutes ago, buzzbomb1958 said:

Should be singing You’re not Hibees anymore loud and clear tonight that will piss them right off

oh,  I like that one 👍

[D4nny_]

1 hour ago, buzzbomb1958 said:

Should be singing You’re not Hibees anymore loud and clear tonight that will piss them right off

I like this 

 

[Gillsland jack]

3 minutes ago, D4nny_ said:

I like this 

 

Or as they potentially have just signed the death knell for Hibernian FC in its current form, how about..'you let your club die, you let your club die, your no the Hibee's, you let your club die' 😆

[kingantti1874]

Bournemouth D - your having a laugh. was in my head 

[martoon]

Hibs fans tonight:

 

 

[buzzbomb1958]

6 minutes ago, Gillsland jack said:

Or as they potentially have just signed the death knell for Hibernian FC in its current form, how about..'you let your club die, you let your club die, your no the Hibee's, you let your club die' 😆

👍👍

[Oda be a JT]

This thread is becoming a bit too Hibs! Who gives a flying egg about them or their finances - let’s just laugh when it goes breasts upwards!

[1971fozzy]

4 hours ago, Australis said:

Money going on building a new training hub and a stadium for their women's team.

 

Just look at so many Hearts fans comments on our women's team thread

 

They dont want a penny wasted on them here.

 

Imagine plenty wee team fans will be the same.

 

 

 

i8 will be beside himself lol

[1971fozzy]

51 minutes ago, Gillsland jack said:

Or as they potentially have just signed the death knell for Hibernian FC in its current form, how about..'you let your club die, you let your club die, your no the Hibee's, you let your club die' 😆

we have a winner

[Lone Striker]

2 hours ago, 1971fozzy said:

The BKs have said there won’t be any loan facilities to Hibs so they really are going to have to live within their means. Cant see the Gordon’s lending any more money either.  

Its being reported that the BK's won't interfere in team selections or insist that a Bournemouth loan player gets picked.    Hmmm... time will tell on that one.  

 

imo, its not impossible that this shareholding change will improve them on the pitch.    However if they go on a poor run  and look like missing out on a Euro place  (a bit like we did last year), that may well produce boardroom conflict  when it comes to the manager's position if the Gordons and Foley disagree on what action to take.  Ron was a bit trigger-happy in dispensing with Ross and Maloney - maybe his wife  & son aren't quite so eager to sack managers now - but Foley's short record at Bournemouth suggests he's a ruthless type, which might be why they struggle to attract experienced managers.  

 

Monty's first brush with reality might come in April if they fail to make the Top 6.   We can play a part in that tonight. 😜

[1971fozzy]

The HSL has £300k in their bank but don’t have a fekin clue what to do with it 🤣.  They can’t  buy shares and giving it to the club is like giving the yanks a payday. Can’t redistribute amongst members as that’s an admin mare. What to do lol. 

[kingantti1874]

25 minutes ago, Lone Striker said:

Its being reported that the BK's won't interfere in team selections or insist that a Bournemouth loan player gets picked.    Hmmm... time will tell on that one.  

 

imo, its not impossible that this shareholding change will improve them on the pitch.    However if they go on a poor run  and look like missing out on a Euro place  (a bit like we did last year), that may well produce boardroom conflict  when it comes to the manager's position if the Gordons and Foley disagree on what action to take.  Ron was a bit trigger-happy in dispensing with Ross and Maloney - maybe his wife  & son aren't quite so eager to sack managers now - but Foley's short record at Bournemouth suggests he's a ruthless type, which might be why they struggle to attract experienced managers.  

 

Monty's first brush with reality might come in April if they fail to make the Top 6.   We can play a part in that tonight. 😜

miss out on a Euro place sounds like they regularly secure Euro places.  As above they will still not be able to compete with hearts or Aberdeen financially so not idea why they’d expect that 

[Homme]

9 minutes ago, 1971fozzy said:

The HSL has £300k in their bank but don’t have a fekin clue what to do with it 🤣.  They can’t  buy shares and giving it to the club is like giving the yanks a payday. Can’t redistribute amongst members as that’s an admin mare. What to do lol. 

 

They should be sticking it on Shankland to score tonight. 

[FarmerTweedy]

6 hours ago, hughesie27 said:

Foley invested in Lorient last year. They've seen 0 significant player loans from Bournemouth in over a year. Infact one of their top players was sold to Bournemouth at the first opportunity.

 

Absolutely no reason to suggest Hibs will be treated any differently.

Except for the fact Bournemouth are unlikely to be keen on signing any of h1b5 top players! 

[flem]

14 minutes ago, 1971fozzy said:

The HSL has £300k in their bank but don’t have a fekin clue what to do with it 🤣.  They can’t  buy shares and giving it to the club is like giving the yanks a payday. Can’t redistribute amongst members as that’s an admin mare. What to do lol. 

 

Should just save it, they will need it for when they go into admin in a few years time. 

[soonbe110]

4 hours ago, kingantti1874 said:

last reported account for both clubs we spend £5.4 million a season more on wages. Now all things are not equal so that won’t all Be on playing staff but let’s be conservative and say 50% of it is . £2.7m

 

They have spent this sum of £10m whilst at an unsustainable wage to turnover ratio.  If their turnover does increase to £15m as the claim, and they run at 65% that’s £9.75m.  Now I’ll take them at face value on both the expected turnover on the back of this investment and the wage to turnover ration they are aiming for whilst also claiming they will be self sustaining. 
 

I don’t see any huge hike in wages based on their own claims.  It doesn’t really add up, also.  Let’s not forget hearts expected annual turnover without Europe is expected to be closer to £20m. .

 

im not saying hibs can’t close the gap. But will take materially more than a one off £6m. 

Did we not have something like 50% more employees than them however which makes interpreting anything from those wage numbers somewhat meaningless? 
Is the 65% total wages to turnover or football wages to turnover? 
We will get an update on their finances next month which may shed some light on it. 
 

Even in our situation if another benefactor came in with £2m pa to be spent on playing staff I’d expect a significant improvement in the quality of player we sign.  Certainly wouldn’t be signing loanees from Bournemouth, Man U etc.  Four players at £7-8k pw would transform our team very quickly 

[soonbe110]

4 hours ago, busbyfth said:

The wretches pay off their debt, so £2m left....that'll go on paying off all the managers they jettisoned.

They are now a pseudo feeder club which will provide playing facilities for Bournmouths third team (and youngest second team prospects) to progress through the ranks and toughen up/get experience of playing first team football.

 IDENTITY HAS NOW BEEN SOLD OFF !!!

Their debt has gone, Gordon family got additional shares, very similar to what Vlad did with our debt. They haven’t paid it off in cash. 

[Lone Striker]

26 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

miss out on a Euro place sounds like they regularly secure Euro places.  As above they will still not be able to compete with hearts or Aberdeen financially so not idea why they’d expect that 

They got a Euro spot in 2023, and another when they finished 3rd under  Jack Ross.    The league table  at the end of a season doesn't always mirror the relative  finances of the clubs, despite what some folk on here claim it should.

     

Edited February 28 by Lone Striker

[been here before]

5 hours ago, Australis said:

Money going on building a new training hub and a stadium for their women's team.

 

Just look at so many Hearts fans comments on our women's team thread

 

They dont want a penny wasted on them here.

 

Imagine plenty wee team fans will be the same.

 

 

 

 

You do know it isnt compulsory to think the womens team is a great idea and every spare penny we can afford is lobbed at it?

 

Folk are allowed to think its rubbish regardless of whether you agree.

[Mikey1874]

39 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

Their debt has gone, Gordon family got additional shares, very similar to what Vlad did with our debt. They haven’t paid it off in cash. 

 

Gordon share went from 67% to 60% with the additional shares. 

[luckyBatistuta]

4 hours ago, Bungalow Bill said:

My wife (also a Hearts fan) has been to hospitality at ER twice, both derbies too. She says the hospitality is pretty good. 

I’ve been quite a few times for derbies and they do have decent hospitality, besides being surrounded by hibs #####

2 hours ago, Gillsland jack said:

Or as they potentially have just signed the death knell for Hibernian FC in its current form, how about..'you let your club die, you let your club die, your no the Hibee's, you let your club die' 😆

Again, surely no 🥰

[luckyBatistuta]

2 hours ago, martoon said:

Hibs fans tonight:

 

 

And tomorrow…

 

 

[Australis]

3 minutes ago, luckyBatistuta said:

And tomorrow…

 

 

The foley toley team.

 

[kingantti1874]

1 hour ago, soonbe110 said:

Did we not have something like 50% more employees than them however which makes interpreting anything from those wage numbers somewhat meaningless? 
Is the 65% total wages to turnover or football wages to turnover? 
We will get an update on their finances next month which may shed some light on it. 
 

Even in our situation if another benefactor came in with £2m pa to be spent on playing staff I’d expect a significant improvement in the quality of player we sign.  Certainly wouldn’t be signing loanees from Bournemouth, Man U etc.  Four players at £7-8k pw would transform our team very quickly 

you think we are spending an EXTRA £5m on non playing staff? £100k per week.

 

i did say not all of the difference will be on playing staff, but no it’s no meaningless.  I’d be surprised if staff not related to the first team or management was much more than £1.5 to £2m in total.  

[kingantti1874]

1 hour ago, soonbe110 said:

Did we not have something like 50% more employees than them however which makes interpreting anything from those wage numbers somewhat meaningless? 
Is the 65% total wages to turnover or football wages to turnover? 
We will get an update on their finances next month which may shed some light on it. 
 

Even in our situation if another benefactor came in with £2m pa to be spent on playing staff I’d expect a significant improvement in the quality of player we sign.  Certainly wouldn’t be signing loanees from Bournemouth, Man U etc.  Four players at £7-8k pw would transform our team very quickly 

Never said it wouldn’t, I expect the hotel will allow us to do just that.  And we already spend materially more than hibs. 
 

As above, if their turnover is to be £15m and the get to a 65% wage to T/o ratio, and be self sustaining .  They won’t be spending materially more than they do today.  Their claims not mine.