A Concert Arena For Edinburgh?

[FWJ]

Plans for an arena in Edinburgh Park - next to EP Station

 

https://entertainment-focus.com/2023/11/22/aeg-europe-announces-plans-for-new-8500-capacity-venue-in-edinburgh/

 

Not before time.  Ideally I’d prefer something nearer town, but is there anywhere left?  And this is adjacent to a train & tram stop and 15 mins walk from South Gyle.

 

 

[Craig_]

Great news, exactly what we've needed.

[pablo]

Perfect location. A larger capacity would have been welcome. But fantastic news for the City. Get it built.

[The Real Maroonblood]

Great news and long overdue.

[manaliveits105]

Indeed FT Weeg 

[All roads lead to Gorgie]

I would have preferred around 12k but it's welcome nonetheless. 8k will probably see middle ranking bands and artists use it mainly. 

Hopefully gets the go ahead with no nimbyism showing.

[Ribble]

1 hour ago, pablo said:

Perfect location. A larger capacity would have been welcome. But fantastic news for the City. Get it built.

 

2 minutes ago, All roads lead to Gorgie said:

I would have preferred around 12k but it's welcome nonetheless. 8k will probably see middle ranking bands and artists use it mainly. 

Hopefully gets the go ahead with no nimbyism showing.

 

Capacity could be just about right, the 13/14k at the hydro is not always used with top teir(s) often curtained off, even for pretty large bands and for the really big bands we might even see tours doing 2 nights in Scotland with one at the hydro and one in Edinburgh.

[Mikey1874]

I still think about the first concert at the then 10k capacity SECC in 1985, nearly 40 years ago.

 

(Simply Red and UB40).

 

Good news. 

[frankblack]

These days the big overseas acts often only play indoor shows at Manchester and London who have arenas > 15k.

 

This will only attract acts not big enough to sell out the Hydro.  Acts given a choice of 13.5k in Glasgow or 8.5k in Edinburgh will never book it.

 

This will only work if they build a capacity greater than the Hydro.

Edited November 22, 2023 by frankblack

[The new West End]

Hopefully this happens

Fed up with pie I'm the sky ideas that never come to fruition

[Jim_Duncan]

8 minutes ago, The new West End said:

Hopefully this happens

Fed up with pie I'm the sky ideas that never come to fruition

Wanna invest in my airborne food delivery service? All types of pie, speedily dropped off by drones.

[John Findlay]

51 minutes ago, All roads lead to Gorgie said:

I would have preferred around 12k but it's welcome nonetheless. 8k will probably see middle ranking bands and artists use it mainly. 

Hopefully gets the go ahead with no nimbyism showing.

Only Nimbyism would be commercial. There's no residential out there.

[FWJ]

40 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

Only Nimbyism would be commercial. There's no residential out there.

Not yet, but there are plans for hundreds (maybe thousands) of flats in the EP area.  

This sort of thing could kick-start the bars/cafés/restaurants for the residential area out there - it’s a bit of a ghost town ATM.  Look what the Hydro etc has done to Finnieston in Glasgow.
 

I think the Prem Inn (literally) next door will be happy too!

Edited November 22, 2023 by FWJ

[davemclaren]

Good location with railway station and tram stops nearby. 

[OBE]

19 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

Good location with railway station and tram stops nearby. 

 

 

Chuckin oot time...

[davemclaren]

6 minutes ago, OBE said:

 

 

Chuckin oot time...

Likely to be busy for sure. 😄

[frankblack]

46 minutes ago, FWJ said:

Not yet, but there are plans for hundreds (maybe thousands) of flats in the EP area.  

This sort of thing could kick-start the bars/cafés/restaurants for the residential area out there - it’s a bit of a ghost town ATM.  Look what the Hydro etc has done to Finnieston in Glasgow.
 

I think the Prem Inn (literally) next door will be happy too!

 

The SECC and Armadillo were already there.

 

I once got off the train from Glasgow at Edinburgh Park perhaps 10 years ago.  Pitch black at night with no public transport pre-trams.  Buses had stopped from Gyle centre.

 

I would definitely support building up that area.  There is less demand for offices there post-Covid with hybrid and remote working.

[Ribble]

2 hours ago, frankblack said:

These days the big overseas acts often only play indoor shows at Manchester and London who have arenas > 15k.

 

This will only attract acts not big enough to sell out the Hydro.  Acts given a choice of 13.5k in Glasgow or 8.5k in Edinburgh will never book it.

 

This will only work if they build a capacity greater than the Hydro.

 

Very few acts sell out the hydro, over the first 600 odd performances at the Hydro the average attendance was just over 8100 per event.

 

Additionally the hydro is in the top 10 busiest event spaces in the world with many bands missing scotland because the hydro is booked out on would be dates, there will be plenty bands happy to play the new edinburgh venue.

[John Findlay]

53 minutes ago, FWJ said:

Not yet, but there are plans for hundreds (maybe thousands) of flats in the EP area.  

This sort of thing could kick-start the bars/cafés/restaurants for the residential area out there - it’s a bit of a ghost town ATM.  Look what the Hydro etc has done to Finnieston in Glasgow.
 

I think the Prem Inn (literally) next door will be happy too!

Also the Novotel and the current retail Park.

If planning permission is denied then Edinburgh Council need shooting.

[frankblack]

Just now, Ribble said:

 

Very few acts sell out the hydro, over the first 600 odd performances at the Hydro the average attendance was just over 8100 per event.

 

They are booking a number of bands that really aren't arena level.

 

The major bands all sell out bar top seating in the clouds.

 

Just now, Ribble said:

Additionally the hydro is in the top 10 busiest event spaces in the world with many bands missing scotland because the hydro is booked out on would be dates, there will be plenty bands happy to play the new edinburgh venue.

 

Not convinced.  They would go head to head with the Newcastle Metro Arena if the Hydro isn't available.

[AndyNic]

Only the 4 years to wait for it to be built then.

[All roads lead to Gorgie]

2 hours ago, John Findlay said:

Only Nimbyism would be commercial. There's no residential out there.

I could see complaints about extra traffic from the usual suspects but with the trams and railway nearby surely it will get the go ahead. 

[davemclaren]

5 minutes ago, All roads lead to Gorgie said:

I could see complaints about extra traffic from the usual suspects but with the trams and railway nearby surely it will get the go ahead. 

Only if there is parking included in the plans. Currently no public parking there iirc. 

[FWJ]

53 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

Only if there is parking included in the plans. Currently no public parking there iirc. 

There will be some  parking, but there doesn’t need to be that much (I don’t know myself but I’ve heard that new arena in Aberdeen is a pain to get to without a car) and maybe the parking can be accommodated under the arena, rather than huge deserts of car parks.

[FWJ]

1 hour ago, frankblack said:

 

The SECC and Armadillo were already there.

 

I once got off the train from Glasgow at Edinburgh Park perhaps 10 years ago.  Pitch black at night with no public transport pre-trams.  Buses had stopped from Gyle centre.

 

I would definitely support building up that area.  There is less demand for offices there post-Covid with hybrid and remote working.

That’s what the ‘etc’ was for!  But I’d still say it was really only in the last 5-10 years or so that Finnieston has taken off.

[Byyy The Light]

1 hour ago, davemclaren said:

Only if there is parking included in the plans. Currently no public parking there iirc. 

 

You can park on the road all over Edinburgh Park and Sighthill industrial estate, Hermiston Gait car park is 100m away, Gyle car park 500m.  All these offices that surround it have huge car parks that will be sitting empty in the evening too and there is a paid for multi story. The need for parking will be minimal so enough to cater for people who are limited physically is all that is needed.

 

Tram stops, well serviced by buses, main train routes to Glasgow and north of Scotland, plus the airport.

 

Couldn't be a better location.

Edited November 22, 2023 by Byyy The Light
Realised there is a ridiculous amount of parking

[pablo]

1 hour ago, frankblack said:

 

They are booking a number of bands that really aren't arena level.

 

The major bands all sell out bar top seating in the clouds.

 

 

Not convinced.  They would go head to head with the Newcastle Metro Arena if the Hydro isn't available.

 

Do you know that it's AEG behind this, the owners of the o2 arena in London? They might have a clue about  what they're doing.

 

Apparently there's a bit of competition to build an arena in Edinburgh. It's a glaring omission from a city of this size and standing.

 

It's also in arguably the most connected area of Scotland for transport. 

 

Glasgow will always be the centre of Scottish gigs, that will never change I don't think.

 

But then I never ever thought I'd hear all those weegie accents in St James Quarter shopping in Edinburgh for the day. So who knows?

[Ribble]

12 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

Do you know that it's AEG behind this, the owners of the o2 arena in London? They might have a clue about  what they're doing.

 

Apparently there's a bit of competition to build an arena in Edinburgh. It's a glaring omission from a city of this size and standing.

 

It's also in arguably the most connected area of Scotland for transport. 

 

Glasgow will always be the centre of Scottish gigs, that will never change I don't think.

 

But then I never ever thought I'd hear all those weegie accents in St James Quarter shopping in Edinburgh for the day. So who knows?

 

Correct, another factor will be that they can dictate to bands doing a London show for example that they also do a Edinburgh date 

[stirlo]

2 hours ago, Ribble said:

 

Very few acts sell out the hydro, over the first 600 odd performances at the Hydro the average attendance was just over 8100 per event.

 

Additionally the hydro is in the top 10 busiest event spaces in the world with many bands missing scotland because the hydro is booked out on would be dates, there will be plenty bands happy to play the new edinburgh venue.

 

I imagine the 8,500 capacity is very deliberate and based on economic analysis. A bigger venue with a few sold out events but many events with a few thousand empty seats probably makes less money than a smaller venue with lots of sold out events, due to everything from energy costs to staffing costs to commercial rates. It also means the venue might appeal to some acts more than the Hydro.

 

All in all this sounds like a good and long overdue project IMO. The location is brilliant in terms of access to the train, the tram, the M8, M9, bypass and even the airport. As others have pointed out, although Edinburgh Park may seem a bit soulless at the moment, this could really breathe life into the whole area.

[Luckies1874]

Was hoping after the London Sphere was rejected yesterday that they'd shift their attention 400 miles north  but the will have to do! 

 

 

Could just imagine it 

[Cade]

Location has all the travel links you could ever want.

Air, rail, tram, bus, motorway.

 

But we've been here many times before with grand plans for a new concert venue only for nothing to happen.

It's criminal how few world class entertainment venues Edinburgh has.

[Stuart Lyon]

Meanwhile

 

https://theedinburghreporter.co.uk/2023/11/council-may-be-asked-for-more-funding-for-new-concert-hall/

[Victorian]

4 hours ago, OBE said:

 

 

Chuckin oot time...

 

The No.400 bus?

[frankblack]

2 hours ago, pablo said:

 

Do you know that it's AEG behind this, the owners of the o2 arena in London? They might have a clue about  what they're doing.

 

Yep, but the artist management ultimately choose which venues are acceptable based on income potential.

 

Promoters will go O2 Arena, Manchester Arena, Liverpool, Leeds, Hydro, Newcastle, Aberdeen.  This new arena would be competing with the latter two if the artist was doing enough dates.

 

I see tickets on sale for Pink.  I saw New Order and Iron Maiden at the Hydro this year and QOTSA nearly sold it out.  Going to Madness next week.

 

Which of these acts would choose a smaller venue if they could sell the tickets for a larger one?

 

2 hours ago, pablo said:

Apparently there's a bit of competition to build an arena in Edinburgh. It's a glaring omission from a city of this size and standing.

 

It's also in arguably the most connected area of Scotland for transport. 

 

Glasgow will always be the centre of Scottish gigs, that will never change I don't think.

 

But then I never ever thought I'd hear all those weegie accents in St James Quarter shopping in Edinburgh for the day. So who knows?

 

1 hour ago, Ribble said:

 

Correct, another factor will be that they can dictate to bands doing a London show for example that they also do a Edinburgh date 

 

Glasgow always gets picked over Edinburgh unless its theatre level size and the band recently played there.

[frankblack]

31 minutes ago, Stuart Lyon said:

Meanwhile

 

https://theedinburghreporter.co.uk/2023/11/council-may-be-asked-for-more-funding-for-new-concert-hall/

 

Time this was scrapped and funds pumped into the Leith venue on Ferry Road to get that up to speed.

 

We don't need this pointless Opera venue.  Usher Hall is perfectly suitable with a larger capacity.

[frankblack]

39 minutes ago, Cade said:

Location has all the travel links you could ever want.

Air, rail, tram, bus, motorway.

 

But we've been here many times before with grand plans for a new concert venue only for nothing to happen.

It's criminal how few world class entertainment venues Edinburgh has.

 

Its criminal that the council rejected the opportunity to build the Hydro in Leith so it went to Glasgow.

[stirlo]

43 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

Its criminal that the council rejected the opportunity to build the Hydro in Leith so it went to Glasgow.

 

I don't think Leith would be the right location for a venue of this type as it's a very densely populated area and the wrong side of the town for those coming from outside Edinburgh. Edinburgh Park is ideal as it's linked to the tram, train and motorway network and on the western fringe of the city, so very accessible for those coming from the west, Falkirk/Stirling area and Fife and even those coming from the south due to the proximity to the bypass. 

[FWJ]

http://www.edinburghparkarena.com/
 

Website launched.

[Montgomery Brewster]

11 hours ago, stirlo said:

 

I don't think Leith would be the right location for a venue of this type as it's a very densely populated area and the wrong side of the town for those coming from outside Edinburgh. Edinburgh Park is ideal as it's linked to the tram, train and motorway network and on the western fringe of the city, so very accessible for those coming from the west, Falkirk/Stirling area and Fife and even those coming from the south due to the proximity to the bypass. 

You are correct. Edinburgh is rapidly expanding in all directions but the main thrust is now west. Perfect location for the rest of the country to get to. 
 

 

[Dennis Reynolds]

Hopefully it finally gets done. I feel like this is the sorta thing I've heard being discussed for the majority of my life. 

[pablo]

43 minutes ago, Dennis Reynolds said:

Hopefully it finally gets done. I feel like this is the sorta thing I've heard being discussed for the majority of my life. 

 

Not sure it's ever got as far as a major player like AEG submitting a PAN before. 

Can't think of any obvious reason it would be refused either. 

[Swimmer]

Brilliant news as the Hydro is an awful concert venue

[frankblack]

38 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

Not sure it's ever got as far as a major player like AEG submitting a PAN before. 

Can't think of any obvious reason it would be refused either. 

 

Its Edinburgh council we are talking about.  They will probably reject it and demand student accommodation be built instead.

[boag1874]

Would be brilliant, an 8k capacity arena's been needed for concerts a while. Right now you've got Barrowlands, Usher Hall & both the o2 Academy venues all covering the 2-3k mark then the next real step up is the Hydro which holds 14k. Braehead arena technically can hold 5k but it's rarely used for concerts for whatever reason, either unreasonable hire costs or because of the Ice Hockey probably.

 

The Hydro is just not feasible for some bands to fill when it's holds 10k more fans than the next largest venues in Scotland, but right now it's the only option for bands too big to play at the o2 even if it's half empty.

 

I get some Edinburgh locals have a chip on their shoulder with Glasgow (& vice versa) but realistically our 2 major cities don't both need a 12-15k cap arena when they're only an hour away from each other & Glasgow will never be replaced by Edinburgh as the hub for live music, it's better for live music in Central Scotland as a whole to have a venue this size plug a gap in the market & give acts who are still clearly extremely popular a venue that better suits their needs.

[stirlo]

1 hour ago, boag1874 said:

Would be brilliant, an 8k capacity arena's been needed for concerts a while. Right now you've got Barrowlands, Usher Hall & both the o2 Academy venues all covering the 2-3k mark then the next real step up is the Hydro which holds 14k. Braehead arena technically can hold 5k but it's rarely used for concerts for whatever reason, either unreasonable hire costs or because of the Ice Hockey probably.

 

The Hydro is just not feasible for some bands to fill when it's holds 10k more fans than the next largest venues in Scotland, but right now it's the only option for bands too big to play at the o2 even if it's half empty.

 

I get some Edinburgh locals have a chip on their shoulder with Glasgow (& vice versa) but realistically our 2 major cities don't both need a 12-15k cap arena when they're only an hour away from each other & Glasgow will never be replaced by Edinburgh as the hub for live music, it's better for live music in Central Scotland as a whole to have a venue this size plug a gap in the market & give acts who are still clearly extremely popular a venue that better suits their needs.

 

Excellent post. As you say, a capacity of 8.5k will actually make the venue more suitable for some bands than the Hydro, so it is probably quite a clever strategy rather than just building a venue with the same capacity which just goes head to head with the Hydro for everything.

[Gundermann]

No thanks.

 

Edinburgh needs more small venues like Venue used to be. Personally, I've no interest in behemoth concerts where you can barely see the act.

[frankblack]

46 minutes ago, Gundermann said:

No thanks.

 

Edinburgh needs more small venues like Venue used to be. Personally, I've no interest in behemoth concerts where you can barely see the act.

 

They could get Leith Theatre up and running and should never have allowed the Picture House  to become a Wetherspoons.  Leith Theatre did run a few gigs pre pandemic but not much since.

 

I like venues where the band plays above crowd height unlike venues around the Cowgate where views are extremely restricted.

[frankblack]

6 hours ago, stirlo said:

 

Excellent post. As you say, a capacity of 8.5k will actually make the venue more suitable for some bands than the Hydro, so it is probably quite a clever strategy rather than just building a venue with the same capacity which just goes head to head with the Hydro for everything.

 

I'm curious as to which bands would not need above 8.5k which play at the Hydro - give some examples so we can look at the numbers.

 

As I said earlier I've seen a few strange bookings there where I wonder why they aren't doing the Barras or O2 Academies.

[Tazio]

14 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

They could get Leith Theatre up and running and should never have allowed the Picture House  to become a Wetherspoons.  Leith Theatre did run a few gigs pre pandemic but not much since.

 

I like venues where the band plays above crowd height unlike venues around the Cowgate where views are extremely restricted.

It will cost a fortune to get Leith Theatre up and running properly as large parts of the building behind the scenes are falling to bits and need serious money spent on them. It is great during the festival but I’m not sure how it would go down with the locals having year round gigs. 

[The new West End]

11 hours ago, Tazio said:

It will cost a fortune to get Leith Theatre up and running properly as large parts of the building behind the scenes are falling to bits and need serious money spent on them. It is great during the festival but I’m not sure how it would go down with the locals having year round gigs. 

 

I don't think the locals would be fussed 

But you are right about the cost to bring it up to safety and comfort standards.

I worked there with Hidden Doors so saw all the back stage areas etc