Adam Johnson, Ice Hockey Player...

[Dazo]

1 minute ago, rossaldinho said:

 

I've never seen him as being a dirty player. Maybe plays with a bit of an edge to his game but if you can use that to call him dirty then you don't know anything about hockey (not you, personally).

 

You can get penalties in ice hockey for tripping, holding, interference, and all sorts of other things that are 99% harmless. These penalties wouldn't make you a dirty player. If he gets called for checks to the head, boarding, clipping, kneeing, and so on then yes, that would make someone a dirty player. 

 

Unless someone has looked at every single penalty he got last year, then I would disagree with that dirty statement. 

 

He also had 129 PIM's which is a really low number for being the highest. 54 games played so an average 2.8 minutes a game is basically nothing. 

That’s why I was asking you mate as that was a a pretty big thing to say and imply by the interviewer. Without context though you automatically assume the worst. 

[rossaldinho]

3 minutes ago, Dazo said:

That’s why I was asking you mate as that was a a pretty big thing to say and imply by the interviewer. Without context though you automatically assume the worst. 

Ah, no worries! Sorry, didn't mean to come across a dick! This whole thing has riled me up quite bit 

[Jim_Duncan]

Just now, Dazo said:

Don’t think anyone thinks he meant to catch him in the neck mate. I think whether he stuck a leg out over and above any natural movement is fair enough. 

👍

 

Totally different incident, but I was in Canada when all the shit was going down about Todd Bertuzzi and Todd Moore in the early 2000s. AFAICR, there was no question that Bertuzzi was out of line and deserved any punishment that came his way, and there have been subsequent lawsuits. Even the Canucks fans I knew were immediately saying that he was out of line. Therefore, if most hockey folk are saying it was an accident, I'd probably go with that.

[Dazo]

6 minutes ago, rossaldinho said:

Ah, no worries! Sorry, didn't mean to come across a dick! This whole thing has riled me up quite bit 

😂 You didn’t mate, you explained your view and being penalised well. 👍

 

3 minutes ago, Jim_Duncan said:

👍

 

Totally different incident, but I was in Canada when all the shit was going down about Todd Bertuzzi and Todd Moore in the early 2000s. AFAICR, there was no question that Bertuzzi was out of line and deserved any punishment that came his way, and there have been subsequent lawsuits. Even the Canucks fans I knew were immediately saying that he was out of line. Therefore, if most hockey folk are saying it was an accident, I'd probably go with that.

As I said I don’t think anyone genuinely believes he set out to catch him where he did. The slight kick out seems to be where the debate is. It’s just shocking that someone has died playing a sport. 

[Sooperstar]

1 hour ago, Cruyff said:

Ex NHL player Sean Averys thoughts. 

 

 

Fox News will have gone around asking NHL players until they found one that said it was intentional. 

[Sooperstar]

18 minutes ago, rossaldinho said:

Ah, no worries! Sorry, didn't mean to come across a dick! This whole thing has riled me up quite bit 

The intentional murder of a man who is just trying to play a sport he loves will do that. 

[ArcticJambo]

https://twitter.com/BlurtAngle/status/1719052623217668477

[Maple Leaf]

59 minutes ago, ArcticJambo said:

https://twitter.com/BlurtAngle/status/1719052623217668477

That was quite spectacular, but it didn't look like a penalty was called.  If he caught the players' skates he might get done for tripping.

 

There's an old axiom in hockey to "keep your head up".  The attacking player had his head down and just missed getting his bell rung.  Incidents like that are not unusual.

[Canscot]

9 minutes ago, Maple Leaf said:

That was quite spectacular, but it didn't look like a penalty was called.  If he caught the players' skates he might get done for tripping.

 

There's an old axiom in hockey to "keep your head up".  The attacking player had his head down and just missed getting his bell rung.  Incidents like that are not unusual.

This!

[ArcticJambo]

2 hours ago, Maple Leaf said:

That was quite spectacular, but it didn't look like a penalty was called.  If he caught the players' skates he might get done for tripping.

 

There's an old axiom in hockey to "keep your head up".  The attacking player had his head down and just missed getting his bell rung.  Incidents like that are not unusual.

 

To me it's blatant tripping and dagerous play at that, missed him with the body so pulled his trailing leg up to catch him potentially bringing the back of the skate into his less protected area behind the shin guard. Scummy play imo.

Edited October 31, 2023 by ArcticJambo

[Gershwin]

6 hours ago, Sooperstar said:

Fox News will have gone around asking NHL players until they found one that said it was intentional. 

 

Sean Avery is also a total *****.

[Turkishcap]

I watched the video and having watched hockey for nearly 48 years my instant thought was wtf was he thinking.

Read the player has a reputation but jees no need to do that.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

Can't bring myself to watch it so have no opinion on whether it was deliberate or not. It's just tragic though and will no doubt leave many who witnessed it never the same.

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

Wow…a man (cough cough) arrested on suspicion of manslaughter…

[been here before]

2 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

Wow…a man (cough cough) arrested on suspicion of manslaughter…

 

Any idea who?

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

2 minutes ago, been here before said:

 

Any idea who?

John Leslie

[OTT]

Didn't expect this to go this way. Have saw a lot of Americans online saying that what he did wasn't natural, but then they are arrest happy and love a court case. 

 

When I've watched it, it looks to me like he's tried to catch him with his leg to foul him so he couldn't break through. 

 

I suppose that could be chalked up as manslaughter. Be interesting to see how this pans out. 

 

 

[been here before]

34 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

John Leslie

 

Im happy to believe that.

 

[hughesie27]

Not sure how you can prove intent in court with that solitary clip.

Aside from that all you have is expert witnesses which both sides will be able argue against each other fairly equally I'd imagine.

[The Jazz Emu]

1 hour ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

John Leslie

This would be unlikely, but nice.

[Byyy The Light]

1 hour ago, OTT said:

Didn't expect this to go this way. Have saw a lot of Americans online saying that what he did wasn't natural, but then they are arrest happy and love a court case. 

 

When I've watched it, it looks to me like he's tried to catch him with his leg to foul him so he couldn't break through. 

 

I suppose that could be chalked up as manslaughter. Be interesting to see how this pans out. 

 

 

That’s what I thought too. Tried to cynically foul him to stop him.

 

Tragic all round if that’s the case 

[RS86]

I can see how they can class this as manslaughter as he def kicked his leg out. I suspect the intention was to catch him on the body or block him. Had he not kicked out the freak accident doesn't happen, but at the same time given the sporting context and lack of malice (I assume) you'd hope the guy isn't unfairly punished for something he already has to live with for the remainder of his days.

[Mikey1874]

1 hour ago, RS86 said:

I can see how they can class this as manslaughter as he def kicked his leg out. I suspect the intention was to catch him on the body or block him. Had he not kicked out the freak accident doesn't happen, but at the same time given the sporting context and lack of malice (I assume) you'd hope the guy isn't unfairly punished for something he already has to live with for the remainder of his days.

 

Manslaughter for example is where someone punches another to the head with the intention to stop them or just to give a message and the person dies.

[That thing you do]

Very few hockey fans think this will go anywhere after the questioning.

 

My view hasnt changed, it was a terrible accident. 

 

But now its with the Police its a case of watching and waiting

[BlueRiver]

3 hours ago, hughesie27 said:

Not sure how you can prove intent in court with that solitary clip.

Aside from that all you have is expert witnesses which both sides will be able argue against each other fairly equally I'd imagine.

 

Manslaughter doesn't require intent. 

[RS86]

2 hours ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Manslaughter for example is where someone punches another to the head with the intention to stop them or just to give a message and the person dies.

I'm aware. Hence why I said I can see why they've reached the conclusion it was manslaughter. Involuntary manslaughter if we were getting technical.

[trotter]

4 hours ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Manslaughter for example is where someone punches another to the head with the intention to stop them or just to give a message and the person dies.

 

4 hours ago, BlueRiver said:

 

Manslaughter doesn't require intent. 

 

1 hour ago, RS86 said:

I'm aware. Hence why I said I can see why they've reached the conclusion it was manslaughter. Involuntary manslaughter if we were getting technical.

In general terms murder is something premeditated. Manslaughter is you didn't set out to kill someone, but a death resulted as a consequence of your actions. 

[Unknown user]

6 minutes ago, trotter said:

 

In general terms murder is something premeditated. Manslaughter is you didn't set out to kill someone, but a death resulted as a consequence of your actions. 

 

Rather than premeditated, I'd say deliberate - you intended to kill, and succeeded. It doesn't have to be premeditated though, it could be a decision made on the spot.

[hughesie27]

11 hours ago, BlueRiver said:

 

Manslaughter doesn't require intent. 

In this instance though they'd presumably need to prove intent to foul him at the very least. It's a Contact sport so there would need to be a level of acknowledgment that a freak accident like this could happen.

 

I've no idea if he did or did not intend to foul him having never watched an Ice Hockey match.

[BlueRiver]

53 minutes ago, hughesie27 said:

In this instance though they'd presumably need to prove intent to foul him at the very least. It's a Contact sport so there would need to be a level of acknowledgment that a freak accident like this could happen.

 

I've no idea if he did or did not intend to foul him having never watched an Ice Hockey match.

 

Ah following you now. If not intent to foul him even a reckless element to his conduct which given the way he's collided with the other player would appear very difficult as well.

 

If I'm honest with you I really don't see this going far. As you noted above there's plenty of experts on ice hockey that could argue it either way and given the threshold in a criminal trial, wouldn't be shocked to see this dropped entirely. 

 

I'm like you, no expert of ice hockey or ice skating or any of that. I've heard a lot of folk on about natural positions and the like of the leg but I'd be ****ed if I know what's natural when you're already engaged in the very unnatural process of flying about on ice at great speeds on blades. 

[BlueRiver]

8 hours ago, ǝǝɥʇᴉɯS said:

 

Rather than premeditated, I'd say deliberate - you intended to kill, and succeeded. It doesn't have to be premeditated though, it could be a decision made on the spot.

 

You could even drop the "to kill" there and replace it with "seriously injure". 

 

You might not intend to kill someone when you stab them 3 times in the stomach, but you should be more than aware that such an action could lead to a death. 

[Jim_Duncan]

29 minutes ago, BlueRiver said:

 

Ah following you now. If not intent to foul him even a reckless element to his conduct which given the way he's collided with the other player would appear very difficult as well.

 

If I'm honest with you I really don't see this going far. As you noted above there's plenty of experts on ice hockey that could argue it either way and given the threshold in a criminal trial, wouldn't be shocked to see this dropped entirely. 

 

I'm like you, no expert of ice hockey or ice skating or any of that. I've heard a lot of folk on about natural positions and the like of the leg but I'd be ****ed if I know what's natural when you're already engaged in the very unnatural process of flying about on ice at great speeds on blades. 

There's one thing you can be sure of. There'll be lawyers buzzing around in the ear of the poor guy's girlfriend and family suggesting at least the possibility of the civil trial.

 

There's massive hits go in all the time in hockey. Christ, in the NHL there's still the occasional pile-on and fisticuffs.

 

This was just a shitty situation all round and one that will hopefully lead to some players thinking twice about sneakier/riskier hits. Every moment of contact in hockey, football, rugby and American football has the potential to seriously injure someone. But the Nottingham player really shouldn't be in court for this, IMO.

[BlueRiver]

1 hour ago, Jim_Duncan said:

There's one thing you can be sure of. There'll be lawyers buzzing around in the ear of the poor guy's girlfriend and family suggesting at least the possibility of the civil trial.

 

There's massive hits go in all the time in hockey. Christ, in the NHL there's still the occasional pile-on and fisticuffs.

 

This was just a shitty situation all round and one that will hopefully lead to some players thinking twice about sneakier/riskier hits. Every moment of contact in hockey, football, rugby and American football has the potential to seriously injure someone. But the Nottingham player really shouldn't be in court for this, IMO.

 

Johnson's team mates coming out in defence of the other player spoke volumes to me. They'd noted the clip prior to the collision and everything as well. 

 

 

[Unknown user]

2 minutes ago, BlueRiver said:

 

Johnson's team mates coming out in defence of the other player spoke volumes to me. They'd noted the clip prior to the collision and everything as well. 

 

 

That was what struck me straight away, it seemed that no one who knows hockey thought it was anything other than a tragic accident. I haven't seen it myself TBF.

[Konrad von Carstein]

 

 

[Dazo]

2 hours ago, BlueRiver said:

 

Johnson's team mates coming out in defence of the other player spoke volumes to me. They'd noted the clip prior to the collision and everything as well. 

 

 

His problem will be if he does get charged it won’t be hockey experts/followers making a judgement on his actions. Most people outwith hockey seem to view as he kicked out with some sort of intention. 

[BlueRiver]

4 minutes ago, Dazo said:

His problem will be if he does get charged it won’t be hockey experts/followers making a judgement on his actions. Most people outwith hockey seem to view as he kicked out with some sort of intention. 

 

Yeah but I'd hope they take into consideration all of the evidence put forward by both sides (hands up. Perhaps the prosecution have compelling analysis and I don't have a scooby really) rather than relying on their preconceived thoughts about it (if they're even aware of how it went down). 

 

 

[Maple Leaf]

I heard two guys on the radio discussing this incident.  One of them was waxing eloquent about how these things happen in hockey, and that to even consider charging the player with a crime was ridiculous etc. etc. etc.  

 

Then he admitted that he hadn't watched the video. 

[Mikey1874]

Another bad one