Sporting Director ( merged )

[CMc]

5 hours ago, TheBigO said:

BUt has our recruitment been that bad!?!?!?  I still don't see the argument which has built up saying our recruitment is so poor.  How?  No one seems to give big examples.  Other than Kio, who has been an actual straight up failure?

 

And remember no club in the world has a perfect track record, in fact, 50% of signings getting meaninful game time, never mind being roaring successes is seen as about industry average.

 

So, come on everyone, in what way is our recruitment so bad?

 

Clark, Nat, Toby, Kent, Rowles, Neilson, Cochrane, Devlin, Beni, Kio, Snodgrass, Newy, Grant, Gino, Forrest, Oda, McKay, Shanks, Tagawa, Vargas all perm signings since being promoted 

 

Some loans of varying success, but include Simms, Humps, Hill, Moore, Woodburn, Offiah, Lowry off top of my head.

 

So show me the awful recruitment.  Kio and Snoddy didn't work out.  Neilson to blame 100% for Snoddy situation imo and from what I heard.

 

I use the word A LOT on here.  It's narrative.  It's not fact, but it's presented as fact that our recruitment is shite.  In terms of outlay and budget being somewhat similar, look at Hibs and Aberdeen recruitment in that time - how many duffs did htey have compared to us?  How many roaring successes?  How many did a job?

 

You also have to look at how stretched their squads have been in comparison to ours in terms of injuries.  That is not the recruitment team's fault or indeed problem.

 

I get many of ours fall in to the "do a job" category, but the coach's job is to take these guys and build a team and we have plenty quality in there for that to be done imo.

 

It's pissing and moaning for the sake of it.

Excellent post. I’d argue even Kio was not an outright dud. Seemed he didn’t fit in with the group personality wise and wasn’t a perfect fit in terms of style and the pace of the league - but he got moved on for the same price we paid for him and contributed in a few games along the way. 

 

Snodgrass was the one that blew up in our faces - but as you say, it was about way more than football ability. 

[OTT]

23 minutes ago, bringonthesevco said:

Before we get to carried away with Allardyces football philosophy, we should remember the remarkable success it brought him.

 

English 3rd Division Title with Notts County - That's it - whilst playing a style of football that we whinged about for a long time.

 

Did you read the previous posts that my reply was connected to ?

 

Its his experience that is relevant. Over 1000 games managed, over half of them managed in the English top flight and he has the 9th most manager of the month awards. He knows a thing or two about football. Unless going to a diddy league and winning trophies would make him more of a manager? 

 

Here is another fact: Allardyce has taken over at a Premier League club during a season on five previous occasions, with all five teams either improving or maintaining their league position come the end of the campaign. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/articles/cv2d9qlvd5zo

 

Don't try and downplay his experience and footballing knowledge. He was talking about the path of least resistance to creating goals, which I assume is something we all want to see taken?  

 

[Prehen]

22 hours ago, best in the land said:

People get abuse at a lot of jobs unfortunately.

In my job working with public it's a daily thing and has got worse in recent years.

And I get paid far less than savage.

People are far more entitled and ignorant than ever.

Imo it is a factor in rising suicide rates.

 

I feel sorry for you and anyone who has to go through this. It is unacceptable, and yet almost feels part of the fabric of society.

[JamboAl]

1 hour ago, Jim Panzee said:

who were our internationals four years ago? Djoum? Lafferty...Aaron hughes?

 

correct that we can now afford a better player - but the other point is that we're casting our net globally.

 

time will tell if we're getting value for money - I think we are (just)

The 3 you mention were nevertheless international players.  Amen.

 

As for searching the globe, Djoum was a Cameroon internationalist playing in Poland, Lafferty a Northern Ireland internationalist playing in England while Hughes (also a NI internationist) was playing in India.  That's a fair spread of the globe for just 3 players. 

[Jim Panzee]

3 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

The 3 you mention were nevertheless international players.  Amen.

 

As for searching the globe, Djoum was a Cameroon internationalist playing in Poland, Lafferty a Northern Ireland internationalist playing in England while Hughes (also a NI internationist) was playing in India.  That's a fair spread of the globe for just 3 players. 

hmmmmmm.....

 

Djoum I'll give you - good player.

 

Lafferty - a loose canon who was kicking around the UK

 

Hughes - was about a thousand years old when we picked him up - and primarily a UK based player before ending up in India.

 

I think the broad comparison is our net is cast wider than the above, Asia, Australia and Costa Rica - and at the moment (bar Djoum) it appears we're picking up players on the up / with potential.

 

 

[JamboAl]

17 minutes ago, Jim Panzee said:

hmmmmmm.....

 

Djoum I'll give you - good player.

 

Lafferty - a loose canon who was kicking around the UK

 

Hughes - was about a thousand years old when we picked him up - and primarily a UK based player before ending up in India.

 

I think the broad comparison is our net is cast wider than the above, Asia, Australia and Costa Rica - and at the moment (bar Djoum) it appears we're picking up players on the up / with potential.

 

 

I hope when we are attacking on Sunday we can move the goalposts like you do.  All three served us relatively well but probably not as well as Messi might have done, had we been able to afford him.

They were internationalists, globally sourced and probably as good as we could get for the money then available.  We have more money now which gives us more choice.

[Finlay James]

Savage is doing an incredible job.  The club, including recruitment, women’s team and academy have never been better organised.

 

We haven’t started the season as well as we’d hoped but here we are sitting 4th and in a semi final.  We also knocked a club with a very good European pedigree out of Europe.

 

The personal abuse that those who run our club get is ridiculous and bordering on bullying.  I can’t quite get my head round adults that behave this way.

[Sooks]

10 hours ago, JamboAl said:

I don't think it says it all at all.

The one thing folk seem stupidly to overlook is that the players we signed 3 or 4 years back were probably of a standard we could then afford and I may say they included international players then as well.

We can afford to buy better quality players now so it stands to reason we should be doing better.

The real question is

Are we getting value for money?

I can answer that real question - yes

 

The ACTUAL real question is are we getting enough out of our squad ? - no 

[Sooks]

2 hours ago, Finlay James said:

Savage is doing an incredible job.  The club, including recruitment, women’s team and academy have never been better organised.

 

We haven’t started the season as well as we’d hoped but here we are sitting 4th and in a semi final.  We also knocked a club with a very good European pedigree out of Europe.

 

The personal abuse that those who run our club get is ridiculous and bordering on bullying.  I can’t quite get my head round adults that behave this way.

good post

 

 

[Sooks]

So Savage maintains that he is teetotal , but folk on here are adamant he was drunkenly spraffing shite to fans in Europe

 

, 

[DG_HMFC]

8 hours ago, Finlay James said:

Savage is doing an incredible job.  The club, including recruitment, women’s team and academy have never been better organised.

 

We haven’t started the season as well as we’d hoped but here we are sitting 4th and in a semi final.  We also knocked a club with a very good European pedigree out of Europe.

 

The personal abuse that those who run our club get is ridiculous and bordering on bullying.  I can’t quite get my head round adults that behave this way.

 

The personal abuse really is uncalled for. The support is so quick to turn toxic when things aren't going well. But, you've highlighted some good results we've had and it really isn't all that doom and gloom.

 

Frustrating is probably the word because we should be sitting on more points, but the injuries and the inability to play our strongest starting Xl every week has shown in our inconsistency.

[Jim Panzee]

14 hours ago, JamboAl said:

I hope when we are attacking on Sunday we can move the goalposts like you do.  All three served us relatively well but probably not as well as Messi might have done, had we been able to afford him.

They were internationalists, globally sourced and probably as good as we could get for the money then available.  We have more money now which gives us more choice.

Fair enough - we certainly do have more money and ergo more choice.

 

Although you could argue that Djoum was costing us as much as Oda, Vargas, Atkinson, Devlin?

 

 

Lafferty / Berra on a large wage too (although outliers I'd agree) - so costing more than say Rowles, the Hoff?

 

Broadly, I feel we're recruiting with more science behind it and into more markets.

 

Hopefully by the end of this season we'll see if the players are of a better quality.

 

 

 

[CMc]

It might have been covered earlier in the thread, but something the club seems to get very little credit for is our ability retain the players we want to keep over the last three years. 
 

Normally, a big part of our difficulty in putting back to back strong seasons together is the fact we got stripped for parts every time we did well (certainly in the post-Bosman years). 
 

Only losing Souttar and Gino over the course of the current build is impressive. Whilst they are all currently out injured, retaining Gordon, Halkett and Kingsley was a huge deal at the time after the fantastic season they had. Likewise fending off interest in McKay (even though he is also injured!). 
 

Some folk are unhappy unless we sign four nailed on starters every window. This is unrealistic. The reality is that signing 3-4 folk who go on to be starters each season, whilst losing less than one, is about the right rate to grow the squad without alienating the existing players and/or risking going bust. It’s not as exciting as the first Vlad year, but we all know how that panned out. 
 

Being slow to sign a CB is, I think the most legitimate criticism for Savage. But even that is complicated. We let Wright off the hook because we thought we had better lined up - only to be let down. Should we have taken Wright? Hard to say, even with retrospect. Our issues with headers would likely have been less last season - but his passing stats were abysmal and his discipline fairly poor. We could easily have started conceding loads of pens and turnover goals. Hill showed he should have been good cover when Naismith used him correctly. 
 

I think JS is doing a good job. Some people like having someone to blame. Feels like a section of the folk who advocated for an early sacking of Neilson have just moved on to a new target/scapegoat when bad luck seams to be a major component of us being a bit away from where we should be atm. 

[Sooks]

1 minute ago, CMc said:

I think JS is doing a good job. Some people like having someone to blame. Feels like a section of the folk who advocated for an early sacking of Neilson have just moved on to a new target/scapegoat when bad luck seams to be a major component of us being a bit away from where we should be atm. 

That is it in a nut shell

[Bunny Munro]

Whomever it was, last January, that didn't get a 'meat and potatoes' CB over the line cost us millions. 

 

Be it Neilson, Savage, McKinley I don't know. I'm not advocating for signing him, but even someone like Ryan McGowan (can't even get a game for at Johnstone now) would have seen us over the line in 3rd.

 

Complete and utter complacency. We'd beaten Aberdeen 5-0 and Hibs 3-0 twice, they ain't catching us. 

[JamboAl]

4 hours ago, Jim Panzee said:

Fair enough - we certainly do have more money and ergo more choice.

Good

 

Although you could argue that Djoum was costing us as much as Oda, Vargas, Atkinson, Devlin?

 

Why would I argue one player is costing as much as four, either collectively or individually.

 

Lafferty / Berra on a large wage too (although outliers I'd agree) - so costing more than say Rowles, the Hoff?

 

You aren't half trying to move the goalposts.  Unless you know what the individual salaries were then - and now- you're waffling.

 

Broadly, I feel we're recruiting with more science behind it and into more markets.

 

I would hope we have more science behind it now if we're paying a guy sat in the south of England on a laptop identifying players based solely on stats

 

Hopefully by the end of this season we'll see if the players are of a better quality.

 

 

 

So you think we will finish 3rd or better?

Edited October 20, 2023 by JamboAl

[soonbe110]

13 hours ago, Finlay James said:

Savage is doing an incredible job.  The club, including recruitment, women’s team and academy have never been better organised.

 

We haven’t started the season as well as we’d hoped but here we are sitting 4th and in a semi final.  We also knocked a club with a very good European pedigree out of Europe.

 

The personal abuse that those who run our club get is ridiculous and bordering on bullying.  I can’t quite get my head round adults that behave this way.

Not sure how you come to that conclusion. 
This summers recruitment is still largely unconvincing with the exception of Kent. Previous recruitment is still unconvincing ie Oda, Grant, not to mention Kuol and Kio 

So far this season the women’s team are going backwards. 

[OTT]

58 minutes ago, Bunny Munro said:

Whomever it was, last January, that didn't get a 'meat and potatoes' CB over the line cost us millions. 

 

Be it Neilson, Savage, McKinley I don't know. I'm not advocating for signing him, but even someone like Ryan McGowan (can't even get a game for at Johnstone now) would have seen us over the line in 3rd.

 

Complete and utter complacency. We'd beaten Aberdeen 5-0 and Hibs 3-0 twice, they ain't catching us. 

 

The story I'd heard with Robbie was happy with his options. 

 

But obviously that is uncorroborated. 

 

Only bit of sense I can apply to it is that we built a bigger squad than we needed and the plan was to try and offload a few in January. Which chimes with him not wanting to bring in more bodies at CB. 

 

 

[soonbe110]

3 minutes ago, OTT said:

 

The story I'd heard with Robbie was happy with his options. 

 

But obviously that is uncorroborated. 

 

Only bit of sense I can apply to it is that we built a bigger squad than we needed and the plan was to try and offload a few in January. Which chimes with him not wanting to bring in more bodies at CB. 

 

 

I heard the opposite.  In fact at times I heard he wasn’t given options.  Only a few know the truth and it’s probably a bit of both. 

[OTT]

6 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

I heard the opposite.  In fact at times I heard he wasn’t given options.  Only a few know the truth and it’s probably a bit of both. 

 

Interesting, I really hope that doesn't turn out to be true because I don't think its controversial to say, if Robbie had a "meat and potatoes" type CB instead of having to rely on an inexperienced, not very physical and lacking leadership trio of Sibbick, Rowles and Hill, we'd probably have managed to grind out enough results to make 3rd. 

 

If it is true, then we didn't back the only manager in the last decade capable of finishing 3rd with us consistently which is a breathtakingly stupid decision by the board. 

[Bunny Munro]

39 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

I heard the opposite.  In fact at times I heard he wasn’t given options.  Only a few know the truth and it’s probably a bit of both. 

 

I had heard we were very close to a CB from another top flight club, possibly Iacovitti from Ross County?

 

Although it is true Robbie wanted the squad to be smaller. 

 

28 minutes ago, OTT said:

 

Interesting, I really hope that doesn't turn out to be true because I don't think its controversial to say, if Robbie had a "meat and potatoes" type CB instead of having to rely on an inexperienced, not very physical and lacking leadership trio of Sibbick, Rowles and Hill, we'd probably have managed to grind out enough results to make 3rd. 

 

If it is true, then we didn't back the only manager in the last decade capable of finishing 3rd with us consistently which is a breathtakingly stupid decision by the board. 

 

As I say, I really think there was real complacency at the club in January, they thought 3rd was done and dusted and we'd have better signing options in the summer.

[soonbe110]

3 minutes ago, Bunny Munro said:

 

I had heard we were very close to a CB from another top flight club, possibly Iacovitti from Ross County?

 

Although it is true Robbie wanted the squad to be smaller. 

 

 

As I say, I really think there was real complacency at the club in January, they thought 3rd was done and dusted and we'd have better signing options in the summer.

Heard he wanted a cb from Lech Poznan but we couldn’t negotiate a deal  

[Jim Panzee]

2 hours ago, JamboAl said:

So you think we will finish 3rd or better?

Although you could argue that Djoum was costing us as much as Oda, Vargas, Atkinson, Devlin?

Why would I argue one player is costing as much as four, either collectively or individually.

 

you've mis read me. I'm suggesting Djoum was on a wage comparable with Oda, or Vargas, or Atkinson or Devlin - not all four combined

 

 

Lafferty / Berra on a large wage too (although outliers I'd agree) - so costing more than say Rowles, the Hoff?

You aren't half trying to move the goalposts.  Unless you know what the individual salaries were then - and now- you're waffling.

 

 

There was chat at the time Berra was playing he would be a top earner and on around £5k a week. Are Rowles and Hoff on that?

Nobody ever knows salaries so yes, it's total conjecture / up for debate. Call it waffling if you like - but then on that basis, that constitutes around 90% of the posts on this board.

 

Will we finish 3rd? - with a change of luck - plus key injured players back I think we will.

Edited October 20, 2023 by Jim Panzee

[JamboAl]

3 minutes ago, Jim Panzee said:

Although you could argue that Djoum was costing us as much as Oda, Vargas, Atkinson, Devlin?

Why would I argue one player is costing as much as four, either collectively or individually.

 

you've mis read me. I'm suggesting Djoum was on a wage comparable with Oda, or Vargas, or Atkinson or Devlin - not all four combined

 

 

Lafferty / Berra on a large wage too (although outliers I'd agree) - so costing more than say Rowles, the Hoff?

You aren't half trying to move the goalposts.  Unless you know what the individual salaries were then - and now- you're waffling.

 

 

There was chat at the time Berra was playing he would be a top earner and on around £5k a week. Are Rowles and Hoff on that?

Nobody ever knows salaries so yes, it's total conjecture / up for debate. Call it waffling if you like - but then on that basis, that constitutes around 90% of the posts on this board.

 

Will we finish 3rd? - with a change of luck - plus key injured players back I think we will.

We were top of the league this time of the the year when injuries struck Levein.  We lost Beni and others when Bob was in charge and still finished 3rd.

As regards your claims about respective salaries unless you know for definite it is just conjecture.

[jamboinglasgow]

9 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

We were top of the league this time of the the year when injuries struck Levein.  We lost Beni and others when Bob was in charge and still finished 3rd.

As regards your claims about respective salaries unless you know for definite it is just conjecture.

 

Thats a bit of a disingenuous comment, by that point we were so far clear in third that two games after he got injured we secured third place. 

[CMc]

3 hours ago, Bunny Munro said:

Whomever it was, last January, that didn't get a 'meat and potatoes' CB over the line cost us millions. 

 

Be it Neilson, Savage, McKinley I don't know. I'm not advocating for signing him, but even someone like Ryan McGowan (can't even get a game for at Johnstone now) would have seen us over the line in 3rd.

 

Complete and utter complacency. We'd beaten Aberdeen 5-0 and Hibs 3-0 twice, they ain't catching us. 

We signed Hill, who looked very good at CB, once Naismith started picking him. 
 

Wasn’t Savage’s fault Robbie wouldn’t play Nat and ended up playing Hill at fullback - before dropping him as well. 

[Jim Panzee]

27 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

We were top of the league this time of the the year when injuries struck Levein.  We lost Beni and others when Bob was in charge and still finished 3rd.

As regards your claims about respective salaries unless you know for definite it is just conjecture.

Key injuries cost Levein and Neilsen dearly. It's not helping Naismith much either. Does make me wonder if luck is the biggest factor in us achieving success.

 

correct about salaries - it is pure conjecture as it's not common knowledge. All we can do is theorise and try an hit an approximate / sensible figure and debate from there.

[Sooks]

4 minutes ago, Jim Panzee said:

Key injuries cost Levein and Neilsen dearly. It's not helping Naismith much either. Does make me wonder if luck is the biggest factor in us achieving success.

 

correct about salaries - it is pure conjecture as it's not common knowledge. All we can do is theorise and try an hit an approximate / sensible figure and debate from there.

Re salaries , this is an approach that I like . We try and maximise income and set salaries at a percentage of that 

[JamboAl]

5 hours ago, jamboinglasgow said:

 

Thats a bit of a disingenuous comment, by that point we were so far clear in third that two games after he got injured we secured third place. 

It's even more disingenuous not to read fully what I said 

ie

BenI AND OTHERS.

[Rudy T]

9 hours ago, soonbe110 said:

Not sure how you come to that conclusion. 
This summers recruitment is still largely unconvincing with the exception of Kent. Previous recruitment is still unconvincing ie Oda, Grant, not to mention Kuol and Kio 

So far this season the women’s team are going backwards. 

The point missed is Savage said he wanted to move us closer to challenging the old firm. Have any of the signings done that, absolutely not. Have we sourced players from all over the place that have proved better than shopping at home, again I don’t think they have, add in they all need time to settle. The Academy/ B team to date has failed to provided a single player thats a regular in the first team. He sacked Neilson and appointed the B Team coach. He’s all talk and when scrutinised nothing much turns into action. Of course none of this will be his fault it never is.

[Sooks]

2 minutes ago, Rudy T said:

The point missed is Savage said he wanted to move us closer to challenging the old firm. Have any of the signings done that, absolutely not. Have we sourced players from all over the place that have proved better than shopping at home, again I don’t think they have, add in they all need time to settle. The Academy/ B team to date has failed to provided a single player thats a regular in the first team. He sacked Neilson and appointed the B Team coach. He’s all talk and when scrutinised nothing much turns into action. Of course none of this will be his fault it never is.

Yes we have better players than those sources locally and it was not Savage who sacked Neilson 

[jamboinglasgow]

2 hours ago, JamboAl said:

It's even more disingenuous not to read fully what I said 

ie

BenI AND OTHERS.

 

Still doesn't change things. The fateful Dundee United game where we lost six players in one game was the previous league game.

[JamboAl]

1 hour ago, jamboinglasgow said:

 

Still doesn't change things. The fateful Dundee United game where we lost six players in one game was the previous league game.

So there were no other injuries during the season.

[jamboinglasgow]

4 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

So there were no other injuries during the season.

 

Of course there were injuries, its almost impossible for clubs to have a season with no injuries. But until the split, only two players had a spell of more than 3 league games out in a row (Beni with six games around the turn of the year and Halkett with five games later in the season.) In fact for 9 out of the 33 games before we won the league we had no first team injuries at all. Also in that time, we had 9 games where more than 1 player was out injured, in fact the first game of the season when more than 1 first team player was unavailable due to injury was Dundee in mid December. The first time we had more than two players out injured for a game was against St Johnstone in mid February and the most players we had unavailable for a game was 5 against Ross County, the game before we secured 3rd place.

 

So the point still stands, you cant use season 21/22 to make out that Neilson got third despite injuries. Its the one season (until late in it when we had pretty much secured 3rd place, though had a big effect on our chances in the cup final) where we were very lucky on the injury front in the league 

[JamboAl]

9 minutes ago, jamboinglasgow said:

 

Of course there were injuries, its almost impossible for clubs to have a season with no injuries. But until the split, only two players had a spell of more than 3 league games out in a row (Beni with six games around the turn of the year and Halkett with five games later in the season.) In fact for 9 out of the 33 games before we won the league we had no first team injuries at all. Also in that time, we had 9 games where more than 1 player was out injured, in fact the first game of the season when more than 1 first team player was unavailable due to injury was Dundee in mid December. The first time we had more than two players out injured for a game was against St Johnstone in mid February and the most players we had unavailable for a game was 5 against Ross County, the game before we secured 3rd place.

 

So the point still stands, you cant use season 21/22 to make out that Neilson got third despite injuries. Its the one season (until late in it when we had pretty much secured 3rd place, though had a big effect on our chances in the cup final) where we were very lucky on the injury front in the league 

So we did have injuries and while I can't be arsed checking your stats , even on these we lost 2 key players Beni and Halks and didn't have the money we have now to adequately replace them.

[bawheed]

12 hours ago, OTT said:

 

Interesting, I really hope that doesn't turn out to be true because I don't think its controversial to say, if Robbie had a "meat and potatoes" type CB instead of having to rely on an inexperienced, not very physical and lacking leadership trio of Sibbick, Rowles and Hill, we'd probably have managed to grind out enough results to make 3rd. 

 

If it is true, then we didn't back the only manager in the last decade capable of finishing 3rd with us consistently which is a breathtakingly stupid decision by the board. 

100% and not a RN fan

[Rudy T]

8 hours ago, Sooks said:

Yes we have better players than those sources locally and it was not Savage who sacked Neilson 

Who? And is this another role that Teflon Joe is absolving himself from? Recruitment being the latest one in his woe is me article.

[Unknown user]

7 minutes ago, Rudy T said:

Who? And is this another role that Teflon Joe is absolving himself from? Recruitment being the latest one in his woe is me article.

 

McKinley's the CEO isn't he?

Joe Savage wasn't Robbie's boss, why would he be sacking him?

[JimmyCant]

26 minutes ago, ǝǝɥʇᴉɯS said:

 

McKinley's the CEO isn't he?

Joe Savage wasn't Robbie's boss, why would he be sacking him?

McKinleys responsibility to take the decision. His ‘go to’ for opinion would have been Savage though. Savage loaded the gun. McKinley fired the bullets IMO

[Unknown user]

3 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

McKinleys responsibility to take the decision. His ‘go to’ for opinion would have been Savage though. Savage loaded the gun. McKinley fired the bullets IMO

In your opinion, but McKinley was Robbie's boss 

[JimmyCant]

4 minutes ago, ǝǝɥʇᴉɯS said:

In your opinion, but McKinley was Robbie's boss 

So Savage,the guy in charge of the whole football department, if asked for an opinion said ‘ You’re his boss, feck all to do with me’ ?

Edited October 21, 2023 by JimmyCant

[soonbe110]

9 hours ago, Rudy T said:

The point missed is Savage said he wanted to move us closer to challenging the old firm. Have any of the signings done that, absolutely not. Have we sourced players from all over the place that have proved better than shopping at home, again I don’t think they have, add in they all need time to settle. The Academy/ B team to date has failed to provided a single player thats a regular in the first team. He sacked Neilson and appointed the B Team coach. He’s all talk and when scrutinised nothing much turns into action. Of course none of this will be his fault it never is.

Fair post, hard to disagree. Some of us doubted his comment re challenging the OF as being completely unrealistic other than in cup competitions so don’t use that to measure his success. Even if the realistic target is consistently third and regular cup semis/finals, the odd win, his recruitment record to date doesn’t suggest progress to me. As I said earlier his position re Naismith ie was he for or against his appointment, is a key factor in what happens next. 

[soonbe110]

19 hours ago, OTT said:

 

Interesting, I really hope that doesn't turn out to be true because I don't think its controversial to say, if Robbie had a "meat and potatoes" type CB instead of having to rely on an inexperienced, not very physical and lacking leadership trio of Sibbick, Rowles and Hill, we'd probably have managed to grind out enough results to make 3rd. 

 

If it is true, then we didn't back the only manager in the last decade capable of finishing 3rd with us consistently which is a breathtakingly stupid decision by the board. 

Don’t there’s any doubt that it’s true. It was obvious to every fan what was needed. I have no doubts the manager had also spotted it. Nothing was done about it though. 

[Unknown user]

18 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

So Savage,the guy in charge of the whole football department, if asked for an opinion said ‘ You’re his boss, feck all to do with me’ ?

 

The guy said Savage sacked Robbie. He didn't 🤷‍♂️

[Rudy T]

1 hour ago, ǝǝɥʇᴉɯS said:

 

McKinley's the CEO isn't he?

Joe Savage wasn't Robbie's boss, why would he be sacking him?

So the Sporting Director has no say in the dismissal and hiring of managers? Come on now if that’s the case is there any point having this guy around?

[Unknown user]

1 hour ago, Rudy T said:

So the Sporting Director has no say in the dismissal and hiring of managers? Come on now if that’s the case is there any point having this guy around?

 

That's right, it's not his job.

The CEO is both Savage and the manager's boss. The manager answers to the CEO, and it's the CEO, as the person entrusted by the board to run the whole thing, who does the hiring and firing.

 

McKinley might well take advice, but it wasn't Savage who sacked Neilson mate.

[Sooks]

3 hours ago, Rudy T said:

Who? And is this another role that Teflon Joe is absolving himself from? Recruitment being the latest one in his woe is me article.

It was never his job . It has been covered extensively in interviews and statements . Savage and Neilson were on an equal footing with McKinlay as their boss , reporting to the board in turn

 

He has never been his boss and I doubt he is Naismith’s boss . McKinlay even did an interview a few months ago where he explained the reasons he had to get rid of Neilson and explained how the conversation went with him

 

I realise you are frustrated at our poor start to the season , and it is understandable that you are desperate for someone to blame , but can you at least get the right person 

[Unknown user]

Hey and Frankie Kent's been a superb signing BTW

[Sooks]

12 minutes ago, ǝǝɥʇᴉɯS said:

Hey and Frankie Kent's been a superb signing BTW

We have a really good squad mate . This narrative that we do not is just really really weird . It is like it started when we took ages to sign anyone and people are still stuck in that mode 

[pettigrewsstylist]

I dont really understand what Joe is responsible for and therefore find it hard to gauge performance. Quite possible   I just haven't been listening properly.