Should Steven Naismith be sacked? ( merged )

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

6 minutes ago, We_are_the_Hearts said:

The same Killy team we beat in the League cup and are above in the League? And who punch above their weight because of THAT pitch

You want to stick with the rookie then?

[McCrae]

On 23/10/2023 at 12:13, HopeDiouf said:

Based on his post match interview yesterday, it's looking like he has no clue what he is doing.

If we don’t beat Livi he has to go.

[Bull's-eye]

12 minutes ago, feej said:

It's a collective mess, board, coaches and recruitment all culpable.

Naismith appointment was a mistake, if appointed he shouldn't have had McAvoy or Forrest foisted on him, assuming that's what's happened.

Need an organiser at the back, need someone to take the ball from the back four or Cammy to make things happen, need an alternative to Shanks up front, a big mobile striker.

There are no characters in the side. We're giving up goals easily, don't see anyone going nuts after losing the goals, just heads down and an "oh well" attitude.

Team lacks a some steel, shape and direction.

 

The only person culpable is the manager, its his job to put out a competitive team. He's got the players, don't believe the idiots on here that blame everyone and everything, they are clueless in the extreme.

 

Every single player has shown glimpses, I'd say Forrest has gone up a notch in peoples minds in fact.

 

They do not function as a team though, its not the Boards job to take training, its the Boards job to make sure training is available, they do that.

 

Naismith and only Naismith is to blame, if he doesn't want his coaching staff then he should get rid of them.

 

Its Naismith's head on the block, he's the manager, he knows whats expected from a coach at Hearts and he's not delivering.

 

Its time to deliver.

 

 

[Dazo]

23 minutes ago, feej said:

It's a collective mess, board, coaches and recruitment all culpable.

Naismith appointment was a mistake, if appointed he shouldn't have had McAvoy or Forrest foisted on him, assuming that's what's happened.

Need an organiser at the back, need someone to take the ball from the back four or Cammy to make things happen, need an alternative to Shanks up front, a big mobile striker.

There are no characters in the side. We're giving up goals easily, don't see anyone going nuts after losing the goals, just heads down and an "oh well" attitude.

Team lacks a some steel, shape and direction.

Is this coaching team foisted on him not become fact ? Nothing I’ve heard or seen about SN suggests he would accept people foisted on him he didn’t want. 

[feej]

1 minute ago, Dazo said:

Is this coaching team foisted on him not become fact ? Nothing I’ve heard or seen about SN suggests he would accept people foisted on him he didn’t want. 

I don't know mate, I was surprised at the appointments, I was expecting him to bring in his own team at the time. People closer to the club may have the answer.

[Dazo]

2 minutes ago, feej said:

I don't know mate, I was surprised at the appointments, I was expecting him to bring in his own team at the time. People closer to the club may have the answer.

Ask Bongo mate he’s got the lowdown. 👍

[Bad Religion]

12 minutes ago, Bull's-eye said:

 

The only person culpable is the manager, its his job to put out a competitive team. He's got the players, don't believe the idiots on here that blame everyone and everything, they are clueless in the extreme.

 

Every single player has shown glimpses, I'd say Forrest has gone up a notch in peoples minds in fact.

 

They do not function as a team though, its not the Boards job to take training, its the Boards job to make sure training is available, they do that.

 

Naismith and only Naismith is to blame, if he doesn't want his coaching staff then he should get rid of them.

 

Its Naismith's head on the block, he's the manager, he knows whats expected from a coach at Hearts and he's not delivering.

 

Its time to deliver.

 

 

 

They appointed an unqualified youth coach with no experience.

 

The board are equally culpable.

Edited October 24, 2023 by Bad Religion

[soonbe110]

43 minutes ago, We_are_the_Hearts said:

The same Killy team we beat in the League cup and are above in the League? And who punch above their weight because of THAT pitch

With nearly three times the wage bill with us I’d expect him to make a big difference. 

[feej]

5 minutes ago, Dazo said:

Ask Bongo mate he’s got the lowdown. 👍

I'm sure he'll be reading this thread so we'll probably hear from him.

[Bull's-eye]

28 minutes ago, Bad Religion said:

 

They appointed an unqualified youth coach with no experience.

 

The board are equally culpable.

 

If all other clubs had the logic shown by the simpletons on here then there would be no managers under the age of 80 anywhere in world.

 

We'd also be in liquidation owing millions in compensation to the 400 managers we'd have had over the last 10 years.

[Bad Religion]

12 minutes ago, Bull's-eye said:

 

If all other clubs had the logic shown by the simpletons on here then there would be no managers under the age of 80 anywhere in world.

 

We'd also be in liquidation owing millions in compensation to the 400 managers we'd have had over the last 10 years.

 

What is the logic shown by simpletons on here? 

 

Explain please.

[Nerja Jambo]

1 hour ago, Bongo 1874 said:

Naismith Job so far has been mediocre at best,that said we are in a League Cup semi final.

 

Who do we replace him with and will he get his own staff ?

Ah the old who do we replace him with question. Funny how other clubs manage to find other coaches no problem and in half the time we take. If this Board are not already drawing up a number of possible candidates just now, they are in dereliction of their duty. This should paramount and they should not just be waiting to see who applies. 

[Bull's-eye]

17 minutes ago, Bad Religion said:

 

What is the logic shown by simpletons on here? 

 

Explain please.

 

Believing all the drivel written about what happens at the upper echelons of the club on here = simpleton

 

Not believing what your own eyes tell you = simpleton

 

 

[Bad Religion]

4 minutes ago, Bull's-eye said:

 

Believing all the drivel written about what happens at the upper echelons of the club on here = simpleton

 

Not believing what your own eyes tell you = simpleton

 

 

 

Apologies, I meant with specific reference to you saying 'there would be no managers under the age of 80 anywhere in world' and 'We'd also be in liquidation owing millions in compensation to the 400 managers we'd have had over the last 10 years'

 

Can you explain that please in simple terms?

[Bull's-eye]

4 minutes ago, Bad Religion said:

 

Apologies, I meant with specific reference to you saying 'there would be no managers under the age of 80 anywhere in world' and 'We'd also be in liquidation owing millions in compensation to the 400 managers we'd have had over the last 10 years'

 

Can you explain that please in simple terms?

 

Its self explanatory.

[Ivan Drago]

3 hours ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

It wouldn’t surprise me in the least if Naismith got fired they would probably appoint McAvoy.

What a thought.

He’s already got experience of the job tbf…

[Cruyff]

Our supreme leaders on the board are obviously waiting until after our seasonal cuffing at Ibrox before they bin him.

 

With this in mind, I'd imagine they've been proactive in searching for a replacement in the last few months given the patent inevitability that this wasn't going to work out months ago. 

 

If neither is the case, they clearly aren't fit for purpose. 

[Leveins Battalion]

It's that bonkers that Gary Locke is more qualified than our current manager.🤣

[Cruyff]

2 minutes ago, Leveins Battalion said:

It's that bonkers that Gary Locke is more qualified than our current manager.🤣

And Gary got a tune out of a bunch of bairns. Naisy hasn't yet managed that feat with team assembled by Super JoeSav and his team of analysts & scouts.

[soonbe110]

5 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

Our supreme leaders on the board are obviously waiting until after our seasonal cuffing at Ibrox before they bin him.

 

With this in mind, I'd imagine they've been proactive in searching for a replacement in the last few months given the patent inevitability that this wasn't going to work out months ago. 

 

If neither is the case, they clearly aren't fit for purpose. 

I suspect he has until the semi to sort things out.  No sign of progress by then its curtains. Other than Fir Park they would have three weeks to bring in a replacement and give him some time with the squad before the league restarts. Probably just a couple  of phone calls required. If we don’t already have a very short list of candidates then McKinlay, Savage and others are clearly asleep at the wheel. 
On the other hand a trouncing on Sunday might just trigger a reaction from the Board. 

[soonbe110]

2 hours ago, Lord Beni of Gorgie said:

Less than 6 months ago I would have choked at the idea of Derek McInness, yet now he seems glaringly obvious

Managed a team as big as Hearts and pretty successful 

Knows what it takes to finish top 3/4 nearly every season 

Decent record against OF 

Decent job at Killie on limited resources and crap pitch. 

Good record of giving young players their chance 

 

When you look at what he brings and what we need it’s pretty obviously a good match. 

[Sooks]

9 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

And Gary got a tune out of a bunch of bairns. Naisy hasn't yet managed that feat with team assembled by Super JoeSav and his team of analysts & scouts.

A tune doing a lot of heavy lifting there mate 

[ford donald]

3 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

Managed a team as big as Hearts and pretty successful 

Knows what it takes to finish top 3/4 nearly every season 

Decent record against OF 

Decent job at Killie on limited resources and crap pitch. 

Good record of giving young players their chance 

 

When you look at what he brings and what we need it’s pretty obviously a good match. 

 

Without a doubt,DM would make Hearts a better team.

[Malinga the Swinga]

11 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

And Gary got a tune out of a bunch of bairns. Naisy hasn't yet managed that feat with team assembled by Super JoeSav and his team of analysts & scouts.

That's a serious rewrite of history. Locke was awful in charge, didn't get a tune out of anyone and went for weeks without looking like getting a win.

This shit about him doing a job is based on nothing other than fantasy and fact we beat a shit Hibs team.

[Cruyff]

11 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

I suspect he has until the semi to sort things out.  No sign of progress by then its curtains. Other than Fir Park they would have three weeks to bring in a replacement and give him some time with the squad before the league restarts. Probably just a couple  of phone calls required. If we don’t already have a very short list of candidates then McKinlay, Savage and others are clearly asleep at the wheel. 
On the other hand a trouncing on Sunday might just trigger a reaction from the Board. 

 

He's not going to sort things out though. It's Cathro deja vu, he literally can't get a performance out of them or any sort of consistency. We're atrocious to watch. 

If the board can't see it then they never will or possibly because they are utterly clueless. 

 

We'll get humped at Ibrox anyway and it should be a NAP, if not the pitchforks might need to dusted off. 

[1971fozzy]

8 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

Managed a team as big as Hearts and pretty successful 

Knows what it takes to finish top 3/4 nearly every season 

Decent record against OF 

Decent job at Killie on limited resources and crap pitch. 

Good record of giving young players their chance 

 

When you look at what he brings and what we need it’s pretty obviously a good match. 

It’s a no brainer if it comes to it. I’d imagine there will be a fair amount of comp though as did DM not just sign an extension there ?

given we are paying Neilson and his team , then would be paying Naismith etc off it all gets very expensive.

[Sir PH]

11 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

Managed a team as big as Hearts and pretty successful 

Knows what it takes to finish top 3/4 nearly every season 

Decent record against OF 

Decent job at Killie on limited resources and crap pitch. 

Good record of giving young players their chance 

 

When you look at what he brings and what we need it’s pretty obviously a good match. 

His record against Celtic as Aberdeen boss was horrendous. 

[johnking123]

We need to move Naismith and his team on soon. Give a new manager a chance to train and watch the players before transfer window opens.

[Cruyff]

9 minutes ago, Sooks said:

A tune doing a lot of heavy lifting there mate 

 

7 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

That's a serious rewrite of history. Locke was awful in charge, didn't get a tune out of anyone and went for weeks without looking like getting a win.

This shit about him doing a job is based on nothing other than fantasy and fact we beat a shit Hibs team.

It's not. Difficult times. Points deduction. Admin. Squad mostly of bairns. Still won a few games, I'm sure we hammered Ross County and St Mirren. 

 

Look at the squad we have now and the performances. It actually gives me the dry boak thinking about how shite this is at the moment. 

[Cruyff]

18 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

Managed a team as big as Hearts and pretty successful 

Knows what it takes to finish top 3/4 nearly every season 

Decent record against OF 

Decent job at Killie on limited resources and crap pitch. 

Good record of giving young players their chance 

 

When you look at what he brings and what we need it’s pretty obviously a good match. 

Without a doubt. I'd be snapping Del boy up. A match made in heaven. Some folk cannae see it but McInnes is a proper coach and safe as houses he'd do a job. 

[Sooks]

1 minute ago, Cruyff said:

 

It's not. Difficult times. Points deduction. Admin. Squad mostly of bairns. Still won a few games, I'm sure we hammered Ross County and St Mirren. 

 

Look at the squad we have now and the performances. It actually gives me the dry boak thinking about how shite this is at the moment. 

I feel like we gave up . His post match interviews used to frustrate the hell out of me . Always the same “ nobody expects us to stay up anyway “ and “ I will put my arm around the boys “ I feel like he saw it as a free hit of a season 

[Sooks]

Another in the McInnes column . Genuine question though , how is George Burleys health these days and is he still in football 

[Cruyff]

9 minutes ago, Sir PH said:

His record against Celtic as Aberdeen boss was horrendous. 

Aberdeen were Celtics closest rivals at that time and Celtic only really hammered them once in Cup Finals, I think Aberdeen lost 1-0 and 2-1 in the others. Plus, they were runners up in the league 3 or 4 times. He did an unreal job at Aberdeen. 

 

Certainly wouldn't be turning my nose up at him when the reality is Steven Naismith. 

 

McInnes would get us 3rd every season, I don't doubt that for a minute. 

[Cruyff]

10 minutes ago, Sooks said:

I feel like we gave up . His post match interviews used to frustrate the hell out of me . Always the same “ nobody expects us to stay up anyway “ and “ I will put my arm around the boys “ I feel like he saw it as a free hit of a season 

Aye, you're right there was a bit of that but it was pure doom and gloom at the time. 

 

9 minutes ago, Sooks said:

Another in the McInnes column . Genuine question though , how is George Burleys health these days and is he still in football 

Aye I'd love Burley if he still had it and his heart was in it for one last time. 

[Rogue Daddy]

3 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

Aberdeen were Celtics closest rivals at that time and Celtic only really hammered them once in Cup Finals, I think Aberdeen lost 1-0 and 2-1 in the others. Plus, they were runners up in the league 3 or 4 times. He did an unreal job at Aberdeen. 

 

Certainly wouldn't be turning my nose up at him when the reality is Steven Naismith. 

 

McInnes would get us 3rd every season, I don't doubt that for a minute. 

He’d get my vote… couple of others think Alex Neil (when he gets emptied from Stoke). Would take either right now. 

[soonbe110]

23 minutes ago, 1971fozzy said:

It’s a no brainer if it comes to it. I’d imagine there will be a fair amount of comp though as did DM not just sign an extension there ?

given we are paying Neilson and his team , then would be paying Naismith etc off it all gets very expensive.

But if it’s the right thing to do? 

[Cruyff]

2 minutes ago, Rogue Daddy said:

He’d get my vote… couple of others think Alex Neil (when he gets emptied from Stoke). Would take either right now. 

Alex Neil is a good coach too, more expensive than Del. Only reservation is that it kinda gives Savage and McAvoy the golden ticket. 

[soonbe110]

17 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

Without a doubt. I'd be snapping Del boy up. A match made in heaven. Some folk cannae see it but McInnes is a proper coach and safe as houses he'd do a job. 

It’s just surprising that our Board  can’t see it. Passed up two chances in recent years and now a third chance looms. He may not be the messiah but he would certainly improve us no end.  I’m not stuck fast on it being him but he is the obvious candidate  and obvious benchmark for any other candidates. 

[Rogue Daddy]

2 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

It’s just surprising that our Board  can’t see it. Passed up two chances in recent years and now a third chance looms. He may not be the messiah but he would certainly improve us no end.  I’m not stuck fast on it being him but he is the obvious candidate  and obvious benchmark for any other candidates. 

He’d certainly make us harder to beat. His teams are always organised… been impressed with what’s he’s done at Killie. 
 

He’s also one of the few managers I can listen to without swearing at the TV! 🤣

Edited October 24, 2023 by Rogue Daddy

[Pap]

28 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

 

It's not. Difficult times. Points deduction. Admin. Squad mostly of bairns. Still won a few games, I'm sure we hammered Ross County and St Mirren. 

 

Look at the squad we have now and the performances. It actually gives me the dry boak thinking about how shite this is at the moment. 

 

We also beat Kilmarnock 4-0. Was a great performance as well.

[Cruyff]

2 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

It’s just surprising that our Board  can’t see it. Passed up two chances in recent years and now a third chance looms. He may not be the messiah but he would certainly improve us no end.  I’m not stuck fast on it being him but he is the obvious candidate  and obvious benchmark for any other candidates. 

100%. 

I reckon he'd be right up for it. 

He's done well with Killie but he can't really take them much further. 

We're a different prospect. We've got the support, we've got money, decent players. He'd separate the wheat from the chaff. 

[MoncurMacdonaldMercer]

1 hour ago, Bad Religion said:

 

What is the logic shown by simpletons on here? 

 

Explain please.

best ignored mate - embarrassed themself more than Bazzas Right Boot over neilson - I know … incredible but true

 

and that’s just the tip of a very sizeable iceberg 

 

 

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

Locke? I’m not pretending we were buried that season but my god, he phoned it in after about two months. A complete surrender from that point on.

 

Nothing at all in that period to suggest he is any more qualified for the job than Naismith. 
 

Why do we always make such a meal of choosing head coaches? Aside from Budge’s need for comfort blankets 

[Sir PH]

34 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

Aberdeen were Celtics closest rivals at that time and Celtic only really hammered them once in Cup Finals, I think Aberdeen lost 1-0 and 2-1 in the others. Plus, they were runners up in the league 3 or 4 times. He did an unreal job at Aberdeen. 

 

Certainly wouldn't be turning my nose up at him when the reality is Steven Naismith. 

 

McInnes would get us 3rd every season, I don't doubt that for a minute. 

He was in charge for 44 games v Celtic 

 

L 36

W 2

D 6

 

One of those victories was the last game of the season at Celtic Park when Aberdeen and Rangers were going for 2nd place. Unsurprisingly, Aberdeen won.

[Bad Religion]

I wish McInnes had come in after Stendel. Very much doubt we’d be in the mess we’re in now if he had. 

[leginten]

11 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

Locke? I’m not pretending we were buried that season but my god, he phoned it in after about two months. A complete surrender from that point on.

 

Nothing at all in that period to suggest he is any more qualified for the job than Naismith. 
 

Why do we always make such a meal of choosing head coaches? Aside from Budge’s need for comfort blankets 

Funny season, that. I always felt the late defeat at Ross County when we had been going along quite nicely in the early games absolutely knocked the stuffing out of us and we were never the same again. Realistically, I don’t know if we were ever recovering from the points deficit.

 

But I will say that when we reached the end of the season, there was a feelgood factor among the support. Maybe because we had absolutely ****ed Hibs up, I don’t know. But given that we didn’t know if we were going to have a club to come back to in August, it was quite strange.

 

Since then, there have only been two seasons where we’ve reached the end of May and I’ve thought, “Yeah, that was pretty good”.

[Bazzas right boot]

7 minutes ago, Sir PH said:

He was in charge for 44 games v Celtic 

 

L 36

W 2

D 6

 

One of those victories was the last game of the season at Celtic Park when Aberdeen and Rangers were going for 2nd place. Unsurprisingly, Aberdeen won.

 

 

Only folk trying to stretch an  argument would use such a metric.

 

If McInnes was employed by ourselves and we were  inabout 3rd, it's the kind of thing the rabids pull out the hat while talking  about next level and moaning about shite football. 

It's entirely predictable how it would  go with a  group on here.

 

 

 

[Holtie]

The very reason I was supportive of the appointment of Naismith is the thought of McInnes, Robinson or one of the “usual suspects” on the Scottish Football Managers roundabout is beyond depressing! The problem we have is that if we ‘push the boat out” and hire a top manager, he would want ( demand)a budget for player acquisition that we simply don’t have….and never will! So we are left scrambling about the lower legions looking for someone like Jim Jeffries , who just might just make the step up and take our club forward. Naismith is a winner and, given time, might be a good manager. With hindsight he would have been better starting his managerial career at Ayr Utd or Dunfermline and then moving back to us, but he’s here so let’s give him a chance.

[Cruyff]

31 minutes ago, Sir PH said:

He was in charge for 44 games v Celtic 

 

L 36

W 2

D 6

 

One of those victories was the last game of the season at Celtic Park when Aberdeen and Rangers were going for 2nd place. Unsurprisingly, Aberdeen won.

That's probably par for the course for most. I don't think it means much tbh. 

 

Our first goal is being better than everyone else consistently. We're 4-5 European group stage qualifications from getting near either of the OF. 

 

 

His record v the OF is probably better than ours as a club. 

[Sir PH]

52 minutes ago, Bazzas right boot said:

 

 

Only folk trying to stretch an  argument would use such a metric.

 

If McInnes was employed by ourselves and we were  inabout 3rd, it's the kind of thing the rabids pull out the hat while talking  about next level and moaning about shite football. 

It's entirely predictable how it would  go with a  group on here.

 

 

 

We were discussing his record against Celtic. It is horrific, no matter how anybody tries to spin it.