***Official Heart of Midlothian v Kilmarnock Match Thread***

[gar jambo]

16 minutes ago, cazzyy said:

 

Yes it looked the midfield and forwards had never played together hence  Rangers proved that last week with a new forward line ! so no time for mucking about get it sorted ! 

[By The Light..]

7 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

When you watch it can you tell us what the shot on target was as i can’t think of any?

Haring from about 30yds in 1st half

 

Rank rotten midfield was the main problem

 

Killie will be top 6 though, question is who will the other 3 be out of sheep, hubs, St Lie down, Mwell and HMFC? 

[JFK-1]

Has no one thought this very same team did pretty much the same thing but took all 3 points against Rangers last week.

 

After a 15 million pound summer spend should they be sacking the manager? Obviously not because it's absurd.

 

This is the killie template, everybody will struggle against it.

[James1874f]

13 minutes ago, Gards said:

Sorry John but if we want to be competing at the top end of the league at split/end of season, we should be beating all teams, outside of old firm, at home.

I'm sorry if that sounds too ambitious but my expectations are higher given how much we've ploughed into new signings and management changes at the start of this season.

We need to stop accepting mediocrity, especially at home.

Agree.

 

2 points dropped in my opinion

[Clark Griswold]

15 minutes ago, Gards said:

Sorry John but if we want to be competing at the top end of the league at split/end of season, we should be beating all teams, outside of old firm, at home.

I'm sorry if that sounds too ambitious but my expectations are higher given how much we've ploughed into new signings and management changes at the start of this season.

We need to stop accepting mediocrity, especially at home.

Exactly. Mediocre performances like this should not be accepted if we are to try and improve on last season. 
 

also those saying ‘we would have lost that game last year’ and trying to spin it as a positive has their heads in the sand. 
 

the stats from the game are embarrassing especially at home.

[GorgieFifeLife]

2 hours ago, Captain Scarlett said:

100% agree with your selection of player who need emptied. I really don’t get the Aussie love-in. There are better players playing with lesser clubs in the SPFL. Shankland can score goals when he can be arsed turning up but hasn’t looked interested at all so far this season 

Yes these players have all had plenty opportunity to show they can cut it but they are not up to it.  Something is not right with Shankland.

[Riccarton3]

1 minute ago, JFK-1 said:

Has no one thought this very same team did pretty much the same thing but took all 3 points against Rangers last week.

 

After a 15 million pound summer spend should they be sacking the manager? Obviously not because it's absurd.

 

This is the killie template, everybody will struggle against it.

Yes, I've been factoring this in. Rangers are a WiP but to restrict them to **** all last week was impressive. I'm sure McInnes came here believing, rightly, they could get all 3.

 

Hearts intensity, though, is clearly missing and unless that changes and the players find some belief and cohesion, fingers WILL turn to those that are coaching them.

 

 

 

 

[Dougie Masterton]

4 hours ago, rudi must stay said:

 

I'm not a fan of Shankland from what I've seen of him he's not a very respectful guy. Kent seems a good pro but I would give the captaincy to Devlin I think he's popular he's hard working and loves Heart Of Midlothian

I wouldn’t let Devlin captain the B team. 

[The Real Maroonblood]

3 minutes ago, Clark Griswold said:

Exactly. Mediocre performances like this should not be accepted if we are to try and improve on last season. 
 

also those saying ‘we would have lost that game last year’ and trying to spin it as a positive has their heads in the sand. 
 

the stats from the game are embarrassing especially at home.

Good post. 

[brawlad74]

Just home after long drive. Poor fare today very disappointing performance despite what I thought was decent starting line up. No link up play and no wide options in spite of Oda and Tagawa. Subs all brought something but despite last 15 when we finally put them under pressure still never worked their keeper. Shout out to Frankie looks strong signing and Vargas who was pick of subs. Euro hangover maybe but we need to up our game significantly for Thurs. 

[ShedBoy]

Tough game today against a tough opponent. They are no mugs and will be a stern test for every team this season. I noticed when we had a goal kick they had 6 at the back. They’re well drilled, we take the point and move on. Positives for me today were Denholm, Vargas and Kent. Negatives were Zanders ridiculously slow distribution and his punching at corners 🤷🏻‍♂️. 
 

We will get there.

[periodictabledancer]

Still so lacking in CM it's getting boring now.

Devlin & Haring - you can't be serious. 

One is never a footballer and the other is finished.

 

[jtkb]

Was a tough game to describe to people who asked me how was match. It just seemed to lack any real quality and we could not unlock at well set up team who were over the moon with a point. The lack of attempts at goals is a real worry. When I seen the team line up was pretty pleased but game was just meh from start to finish.  Good to see Denholm not looking out of place in our team was one of the few plus points. We are going to have to find a way past teams like that. Think Thursday is going to be very tough if we play like that again.

[M8Jambo]

Disappointing performance and frustrated not to win at home, but IMO it's nothing to be overly worried about. Killie are a tough team to play against and showed last week that with recent recruitment and McInnes as manager they are going to cause problems for teams. The came with a game plan and implemented it excellently, also thought they showed they were dangerous on the counter at times. 

 

I do think we were really poor today, far too slow at moving the ball and no imagination up top. Thought Shankland looked shattered in the 2nd half and Oda nowhere near the levels I've seen him previously. We seemed to abandon playing from the back in the 2nd half which played right into Killies hands, we were never going win big long balls against a team like that, I feel we started to feel the pressure and panicked into playing their game. Defiantly think we need to expect the keeper to be restarting the game quicker in future, many times we had the option of a quick ball 1 on 1 and he waits until almost all the Killie players are back in and then plays the same ball anyways. Might be a blessing as I think Rosenberg will come and play the same way on Thursday and we've got to find a way to unlock them. 

 

Thought Vargas looked sharp when he came on, Kent looks to be solid and the young lad Denholm really looked good when he came on. 

 

Little bit confused on why the VAR didn't look at the penalty shout in the 1st half, not sure it would've been given but watching the replays it does look like he had a good hold of Shankland for 3/4 seconds before letting go. 

 

Don't agree with anyone saying players don't need time to gel, they absolutely do. They need game time to work out each others strengths  and habits, it takes time and we've got to trust the management time to allow them to do that.

 

Looking forward to Thursday!!

[Sertse]

41 minutes ago, gregzy2k7 said:

Tbf we did that towards end of last season when Robbie was punted (rightly so imo) however the question is, did we make the right choice appointing the current coaching staff, I think you geniunely have to look at it, maybe after the first round or two of fixtures, if there has been little to no improvement in results.

I'm not going to go straight into 'management team out' but from what I've seen I think we've made a bad choice going for the easy, cheap option. 

We've got good players but none of them are meeting their potential I'd say. Even Shankland, bag load of goals last season yet what's he doing today? Woeful. Is he improving? Are any of them really improving?

Lowry played for us without training with us, looked unreal. Trained with us for a week and he was anonymous.

Something just doesn't feel right because as I said, it's the same story every single season. 

Can sign all the players you want but if the coaches are bad they'll make the players play badly.

I used to blame the manager for bad results, I'd blame the players as well if they were poor but I think it's been misdirected.

If it came out we're still using coaches that have been around since Levein or before I wouldn't be surprised.

[scott herbertson]

4 minutes ago, M8Jambo said:

Disappointing performance and frustrated not to win at home, but IMO it's nothing to be overly worried about. Killie are a tough team to play against and showed last week that with recent recruitment and McInnes as manager they are going to cause problems for teams. The came with a game plan and implemented it excellently, also thought they showed they were dangerous on the counter at times. 

 

I do think we were really poor today, far too slow at moving the ball and no imagination up top. Thought Shankland looked shattered in the 2nd half and Oda nowhere near the levels I've seen him previously. We seemed to abandon playing from the back in the 2nd half which played right into Killies hands, we were never going win big long balls against a team like that, I feel we started to feel the pressure and panicked into playing their game. Defiantly think we need to expect the keeper to be restarting the game quicker in future, many times we had the option of a quick ball 1 on 1 and he waits until almost all the Killie players are back in and then plays the same ball anyways. Might be a blessing as I think Rosenberg will come and play the same way on Thursday and we've got to find a way to unlock them. 

 

Thought Vargas looked sharp when he came on, Kent looks to be solid and the young lad Denholm really looked good when he came on. 

 

Little bit confused on why the VAR didn't look at the penalty shout in the 1st half, not sure it would've been given but watching the replays it does look like he had a good hold of Shankland for 3/4 seconds before letting go. 

 

Don't agree with anyone saying players don't need time to gel, they absolutely do. They need game time to work out each others strengths  and habits, it takes time and we've got to trust the management time to allow them to do that.

 

Looking forward to Thursday!!

 

 

Excellent first post

[ScandinavianJambo]

2 hours ago, Cruyff said:

It's not much of an ask tbf, it should be a pre requisite for a striker at our level that can offer something in the build up. He's a much better player than what he's shown in the last 3 games. 

Think you are right, bu that's to do with him being without an established partner. Hopefully Boyce will be able to fill that role...you could see what a difference he made after coming on....

Killie will be a hard not to crack this year and at least we did not concede. 

Onwards & upwards 

[Portable Badger]

1 hour ago, GinRummy said:

If you were a horse I’d invest in the glue business. 

You get better margins in the Dog Food market so I would advise investing in that one instead.

[LochcarronJambo]

What gets me is, we knew exactly how Kilmarnock would play - dreadful to watch but effective at stifling teams - we needed quick passing & a desire to move into what space there was…it didn’t happen…...in actual fact Kilmarnock were allowed to be unusually positive at times…. Had they had any flair they would probably have scored….. all in all a really really disappointing day

[GinRummy]

11 minutes ago, M8Jambo said:

Disappointing performance and frustrated not to win at home, but IMO it's nothing to be overly worried about. Killie are a tough team to play against and showed last week that with recent recruitment and McInnes as manager they are going to cause problems for teams. The came with a game plan and implemented it excellently, also thought they showed they were dangerous on the counter at times. 

 

I do think we were really poor today, far too slow at moving the ball and no imagination up top. Thought Shankland looked shattered in the 2nd half and Oda nowhere near the levels I've seen him previously. We seemed to abandon playing from the back in the 2nd half which played right into Killies hands, we were never going win big long balls against a team like that, I feel we started to feel the pressure and panicked into playing their game. Defiantly think we need to expect the keeper to be restarting the game quicker in future, many times we had the option of a quick ball 1 on 1 and he waits until almost all the Killie players are back in and then plays the same ball anyways. Might be a blessing as I think Rosenberg will come and play the same way on Thursday and we've got to find a way to unlock them. 

 

Thought Vargas looked sharp when he came on, Kent looks to be solid and the young lad Denholm really looked good when he came on. 

 

Little bit confused on why the VAR didn't look at the penalty shout in the 1st half, not sure it would've been given but watching the replays it does look like he had a good hold of Shankland for 3/4 seconds before letting go. 

 

Don't agree with anyone saying players don't need time to gel, they absolutely do. They need game time to work out each others strengths  and habits, it takes time and we've got to trust the management time to allow them to do that.

 

Looking forward to Thursday!!

Good post. 

[periodictabledancer]

41 minutes ago, JFK-1 said:

Has no one thought this very same team did pretty much the same thing but took all 3 points against Rangers last week.

 

After a 15 million pound summer spend should they be sacking the manager? Obviously not because it's absurd.

 

This is the killie template, everybody will struggle against it.

What's Hearts  "template"? 

[The Real Maroonblood]

13 minutes ago, Sertse said:

I'm not going to go straight into 'management team out' but from what I've seen I think we've made a bad choice going for the easy, cheap option. 

We've got good players but none of them are meeting their potential I'd say. Even Shankland, bag load of goals last season yet what's he doing today? Woeful. Is he improving? Are any of them really improving?

Lowry played for us without training with us, looked unreal. Trained with us for a week and he was anonymous.

Something just doesn't feel right because as I said, it's the same story every single season. 

Can sign all the players you want but if the coaches are bad they'll make the players play badly.

I used to blame the manager for bad results, I'd blame the players as well if they were poor but I think it's been misdirected.

If it came out we're still using coaches that have been around since Levein or before I wouldn't be surprised.

Looking at the dugout today it was difficult to tell who was in charge.

Embarrassing stuff.

[Portable Badger]

16 minutes ago, scott herbertson said:

 

 

Excellent first post

It won't last - we all started out that way and now look at us all !!!

[One five]

21 minutes ago, M8Jambo said:

Disappointing performance and frustrated not to win at home, but IMO it's nothing to be overly worried about. Killie are a tough team to play against and showed last week that with recent recruitment and McInnes as manager they are going to cause problems for teams. The came with a game plan and implemented it excellently, also thought they showed they were dangerous on the counter at times. 

 

I do think we were really poor today, far too slow at moving the ball and no imagination up top. Thought Shankland looked shattered in the 2nd half and Oda nowhere near the levels I've seen him previously. We seemed to abandon playing from the back in the 2nd half which played right into Killies hands, we were never going win big long balls against a team like that, I feel we started to feel the pressure and panicked into playing their game. Defiantly think we need to expect the keeper to be restarting the game quicker in future, many times we had the option of a quick ball 1 on 1 and he waits until almost all the Killie players are back in and then plays the same ball anyways. Might be a blessing as I think Rosenberg will come and play the same way on Thursday and we've got to find a way to unlock them. 

 

Thought Vargas looked sharp when he came on, Kent looks to be solid and the young lad Denholm really looked good when he came on. 

 

Little bit confused on why the VAR didn't look at the penalty shout in the 1st half, not sure it would've been given but watching the replays it does look like he had a good hold of Shankland for 3/4 seconds before letting go. 

 

Don't agree with anyone saying players don't need time to gel, they absolutely do. They need game time to work out each others strengths  and habits, it takes time and we've got to trust the management time to allow them to do that.

 

Looking forward to Thursday!!

Can’t argue with anything there mate the stats say’s it all only…… one shot on target, let’s hope whatever the management decide we will be better linking up the midfield to the forwards, indeed looking forward to Thursday.

[GinRummy]

3 minutes ago, Portable Badger said:

It won't last - we all started out that way and now look at us all !!!

😂

[Debut 4]

14 minutes ago, LochcarronJambo said:

What gets me is, we knew exactly how Kilmarnock would play - dreadful to watch but effective at stifling teams - we needed quick passing & a desire to move into what space there was…it didn’t happen…...in actual fact Kilmarnock were allowed to be unusually positive at times…. Had they had any flair they would probably have scored….. all in all a really really disappointing day

The appetite to work the ball quicker and believe we could get behind Killie waned with every time they smothered us or fired into a tackle.  I’m not saying our players didn’t have the desire, it was just the belief, or lack of.

 

It became pretty grating.  You have to believe you will get that moment and get the better of your opponent, maybe a chance to get a ball in or an effort on goal.  
 

We just didn’t seem to match Killie’s desire to defend their goal with the same amount of willingness to break it. 

 

 

[Sleepy head]

4 hours ago, 4marsbars said:

These are opinions.

Hindsight shows them as facts .

[Chuck Berry]

58 minutes ago, By The Light.. said:

Killie will be top 6 though, question is who will the other 3 be out of sheep, hubs, St Lie down, Mwell and HMFC? 

 

Not so sure they will be.  Their first two games were ones where they were always going to sit-in and try and grab something on the break.  If they were sitting with two points instead of four, they would still be very happy.

 

The question that is yet to be asked is what do they look like when they need to open up and go at teams. We'll find out soon enough, 

[Gizmo]

We've seen this enough for several years:

 

Shit set pieces

Sideways passing

One paced 

Few balls into the box from wide

 

I don't understand it as Naismith categorically does not want this.

 

We need Mackay back asap. 

[Newton51]

Highlights on sportscene were grim. They didn’t even know what our 1 shot on target was 

[Sleepy head]

2 hours ago, Batistuta87 said:

Positives: Denholm looks class. Boyce like a man possessed. Vargas looks sharp. Oda's energy is brilliant. Kingsley getting back to himself. Don't think Kent was beaten to a single header. Rowles a bit more steady. New signings look like they will be good for us. 

 

Negatives: Shankland dire. Tagawa nullified by the amount of times we hoofed it. Too slow to pull the trigger whether it was releasing a pass or taking a shot - until Denholm came on and started acting with a bit more urgency . Too slow getting out from defending set pieces. Clark to slow getting the ball out. Nobody staying forward to counter attack from set pieces. 

 

Ref was shocking. 

 

That's about all I've got to say.

 

He was dire.Gets the ball,stops,passes it back inside but does it with style.

[Sleepy head]

2 hours ago, Sertse said:

Honestly I'm not making a Naismith out post, I just have the feeling we're not seeking out the best coaches behind the scenes. Seems to be the same story season after season. Can have the best training facilities money can buy but it means nothing if the people training our players aren't up to scratch or dinosaurs waiting on their retirement. We need to be hungrier.

The ones making these decisions don't want anyone from outside for some unknown reason. Stendel was hamstrung from the off big style,almost as if he was set to fail.Show another manager from inside the club shown the same treatment as he.

[Sertse]

3 minutes ago, Sleepy head said:

The ones making these decisions don't want anyone from outside for some unknown reason. Stendel was hamstrung from the off big style,almost as if he was set to fail.Show another manager from inside the club shown the same treatment as he.

I reckon he tried to shake things up far too much for the clubs liking. People far far too comfortable in their jobs.

[Jingle Bells]

1 hour ago, Pasquale for King said:

When you watch it can you tell us what the shot on target was as i can’t think of any?

 

There was one according to the BBC, I must have been nodding off and missed it too.

One shot on target in 95 minutes is taking the pisss, Neilson style

 

.

[A Shoreditch Heart]

I've just watched the Sportscene 'highlights' and we didn't look great, but in my 50-odd years we never really have against that horrible team and I kinda expected a draw tbh. We've got new players in and it's a fresh set up so it will obviously take time for the big results to happen. Lets hope the season really starts on Thursday night and we kick on from there - C'mon The Hearts!

[Sleepy head]

Just now, Sertse said:

I reckon he tried to shake things up far too much for the clubs liking. People far far too comfortable in their jobs.

Correct.

[maggieb]

3 hours ago, Batistuta87 said:

Positives: Denholm looks class. Boyce like a man possessed. Vargas looks sharp. Oda's energy is brilliant. Kingsley getting back to himself. Don't think Kent was beaten to a single header. Rowles a bit more steady. New signings look like they will be good for us. 

 

Negatives: Shankland dire. Tagawa nullified by the amount of times we hoofed it. Too slow to pull the trigger whether it was releasing a pass or taking a shot - until Denholm came on and started acting with a bit more urgency . Too slow getting out from defending set pieces. Clark to slow getting the ball out. Nobody staying forward to counter attack from set pieces. 

 

Ref was shocking. 

 

That's about all I've got to say.

 

Pssssst , keep it hush about young Denholm please , he definitely looks class but we have to keep him under covers until the five year deal is done😉

[Pasquale for King]

9 minutes ago, Jingle Bells said:

 

There was one according to the BBC, I must have been nodding off and missed it too.

One shot on target in 95 minutes is taking the pisss, Neilson style

 

.

Definitely. I can’t think of one at all, telling us we will be great in a month really sounds very Levein/Neilson unfortunately.

[JFK-1]

26 minutes ago, Chuck Berry said:

 

Not so sure they will be.  Their first two games were ones where they were always going to sit-in and try and grab something on the break.  If they were sitting with two points instead of four, they would still be very happy.

 

The question that is yet to be asked is what do they look like when they need to open up and go at teams. We'll find out soon enough, 

 

This is a McInnes side, this is exactly what they will do all season. And probably make top 6

[scott herbertson]

42 minutes ago, Portable Badger said:

It won't last - we all started out that way and now look at us all !!!

I'd like to argue with that, but my thousands of posts with minimal content tell the truth

Edited August 13, 2023 by scott herbertson

[Saint Jambo]

2 hours ago, John Findlay said:

To those saying no improvement from last season, I say au contraire. Last season we would have lost that game as we did the league cup against them last season. We have improved in defence, especially defending corners and free kick just outside and around the box. Frankie Kent is very commanding in the air, also good in the air are Haring and Kingsley. All three won their fair share in their own box today.

It didn't come off in the final third today, but that is where we have recruited the most. Once the understanding comes( there were signs today contrary to what the doomsayers are saying) we are giving a team a real doing.

 4 from 6 is not shabby. Many would have settled for a point in Perth and Three at home today. Hearts just did it the other way around. 

Now could all the Hibs interlopers **** off to whence you came, and start demanding Lee Johnson. Gets the tin tack.

 

Our last home game against Kilmarnock was a league game and we won 3-1. A nil-nil draw is not an improvement on last season. If you want to paint a rosey picture by comparing to the league cup game and ignoring the actual league game, fair enough, but if people take a different view that hardly makes them Hibs fans. One of the laziest tropes on jkb.

[Jingle Bells]

Just now, Pasquale for King said:

Definitely. I can’t think of one at all, telling us we will be great in a month really sounds very Levein/Neilson unfortunately.

 

Nothing against Naismith, who I hope does well, but he should be learning his trade from a Manager of substance, imho.

The reason given for appointing the On the Job Trainee Head Coaches was that if it was a new Manager instead he would  always want to bring in his own players and get rid of the previously signed ones however we sign eight to ten each season anyway.

[Pasquale for King]

2 minutes ago, Jingle Bells said:

 

Nothing against Naismith, who I hope does well, but he should be learning his trade from a Manager of substance, imho.

The reason given for appointing the On the Job Trainee Head Coaches was that if it was a new Manager instead he would  always want to bring in his own players and get rid of the previously signed ones however we sign eight to ten each season anyway.

Yeah I want him to succeed, was waiting to see what he would change in the 2nd half but wasn’t expecting more long high balls tbh. 
Lets hope we get some energy for Thursday and that spurs us on to better performances, when the new guys settle in a bit more. 

[Pasquale for King]

19 minutes ago, JFK-1 said:

 

This is a McInnes side, this is exactly what they will do all season. And probably make top 6

Absolutely, was thinking when they were singing his name that within a few years of watching that football they will want him out as the Aberdeen fans did. 

[Chuck Berry]

30 minutes ago, JFK-1 said:

 

This is a McInnes side, this is exactly what they will do all season. And probably make top 6

 

It is, but at Aberdeen they were a threat going forward and consistently got results. Not sure this Killie side have that consistently in forward areas.

[OldGorgie]

Sorry to rock the boat but playing at home we should have beaten them 3-0. Disappointed at our lack of progress under McAvoy.

[The Real Maroonblood]

2 minutes ago, OldGorgie said:

Sorry to rock the boat but playing at home we should have beaten them 3-0. Disappointed at our lack of progress under McAvoy.

Is it not Naismith that is in charge?

[Batistuta87]

1 hour ago, Sleepy head said:

He was dire.Gets the ball,stops,passes it back inside but does it with style.

Thought he was a lot better today. He got forward quite a bit and our best chance came from him drilling it across the box. Was in the attacking half a lot in the 2nd half too. 

[fila]

13 hours ago, Saint Jambo said:

 

We need to be willing to go with a mix of tactics. When we still rigidly to a single tactic we become predictable and easy to defend against.

 

That was one of the problems on Thursday. They worked out that if they broke up our attacks early with cheap free kicks around the half way line, they wouldn't be booked and we would wait for their entire team to get behind the ball. We would then take the free kicks with a short pass to the side or backwards before playing lots of sideways passes in front of their defence and midfield until eventually we misplaced a pass and they won back possession. The result was really high possession stats but few shots. If we had launched a couple of those free kicks into the box, Rosenberg would have had to consider that giving away free kicks on the halfway line  was a dangerous tactic, giving us more opportunity to successfully play on the break. It was no surprise that when we finally shook things up we took a free kick long from the halfway line we scored.

 

It's not about becoming a long ball team, it's about becoming a team that is unpredictable.

nothing changes

[fila]

Well that was bollocks, no pace or a real willingness to play quick down the wings . Midfield content to pay back or across . No high pressure . 
 

Again some the players who are being built as good, are not showing it IMO.

 

plus points for me is that Kent looks good , Vargas looks lively and we drought on Denholm , great to see youth getting a chance