colinmaroon Posted May 24, 2023 Share Posted May 24, 2023 These daft errors, reminds me of Elvis when he was younger. Central defenders, top stars even, mature and it's 25 plus before the consistency sets in. Plenty of examples about. Plus that point of a commanding central defender would make all the difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Hardy’s Dug Posted May 24, 2023 Share Posted May 24, 2023 Well - you are right to an extent. Bit then he saved a certain goal by getting back goal-side against Morelos who would have been one on one. All that having been said I would not be massively disappointed if both Rowles and him were sold in the summer. Our defence has effectively been a shambles all season and arguably last season as well given how busy Gordon was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FERRY HEARTS Posted May 24, 2023 Share Posted May 24, 2023 Sportscene commentator just nailed it in 1 sentence concerning Toby’s mistake tonight , That’s weak doesn’t know what he,s doing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasquale for King Posted May 24, 2023 Share Posted May 24, 2023 32 minutes ago, FERRY HEARTS said: Sportscene commentator just nailed it in 1 sentence concerning Toby’s mistake tonight , That’s weak doesn’t know what he,s doing Indeed. I can’t think of him ever winning many headers in either box tbh, quite important to do that if you want to be a CH anywhere in the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasquale for King Posted May 24, 2023 Share Posted May 24, 2023 Not sure the ever worsening GK was entirely blameless and didn’t shout for him to leave it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon simpson Posted May 24, 2023 Share Posted May 24, 2023 2 hours ago, Madvlad65 said: Behave yourselves spot on we have some pure rosters in our fan base Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovecraft Posted May 24, 2023 Share Posted May 24, 2023 The guy made a mistake. It happens. It just happens that it was against a team that had players that could punish it. Toby is doing fine and will continue to get better. Same as Hill. Great game from him but one mistake is all it takes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovecraft Posted May 24, 2023 Share Posted May 24, 2023 16 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said: Not sure the ever worsening GK was entirely blameless and didn’t shout for him to leave it. Don't think any of the defenders have any confidence in him tbh, which is never good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SectionDJambo Posted May 24, 2023 Share Posted May 24, 2023 2 hours ago, stotty said: Get him in midfield I argued this during the week and got a wee bit of a hard time for it. He doesn’t have, in my opinion, the necessary defensive awareness to be a central defender. I believe that to be a natural talent, similar to a natural striker, like our own John Robertson. You can coach so much, but something has to be on you first. But I think he would enhance our midfield pool as he has great energy and strong running. I like him, but he’s doing himself no favours by thinking he’s a central defender. In my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasquale for King Posted May 24, 2023 Share Posted May 24, 2023 1 minute ago, Lovecraft said: Don't think any of the defenders have any confidence in him tbh, which is never good. Good point, started off well but has shown recently why he was available in September. There was a cross 2nd half that Rowles cleared that about 2 yards out and he was actually over his goal line backing away. As for his kicking 🤦🏽. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasquale for King Posted May 24, 2023 Share Posted May 24, 2023 2 minutes ago, SectionDJambo said: I argued this during the week and got a wee bit of a hard time for it. He doesn’t have, in my opinion, the necessary defensive awareness to be a central defender. I believe that to be a natural talent, similar to a natural striker, like our own John Robertson. You can coach so much, but something has to be on you first. But I think he would enhance our midfield pool as he has great energy and strong running. I like him, but he’s doing himself no favours by thinking he’s a central defender. In my opinion. You’re spot on, the amount he stops or doesn’t use his pace to get back is scary when you watch him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovecraft Posted May 24, 2023 Share Posted May 24, 2023 Just now, Pasquale for King said: Good point, started off well but has shown recently why he was available in September. There was a cross 2nd half that Rowles cleared that about 2 yards out and he was actually over his goal line backing away. As for his kicking 🤦🏽. Look at the game at the weekend and how many times players were like "WTF" come and get the ball FFS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren Posted May 24, 2023 Share Posted May 24, 2023 2 hours ago, indianajones said: Probably best not to lay into him before an important game at the weekend. He has cost us many goals this season but he's improving overall. Why? Do you reckon he's reading our posts? 2 hours ago, kingantti1874 said: Like Toby but that was a terrible mistake at exactly the wrong time. decent today but 2 absolutely abysmal goals to concede Not all that decent if he's directly responsible for one of two "abysmal" goals. Get rid - he's not good enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasquale for King Posted May 24, 2023 Share Posted May 24, 2023 2 minutes ago, Lovecraft said: Look at the game at the weekend and how many times players were like "WTF" come and get the ball FFS. Since the mistake at Killie hes been poor, doesn’t look when he does come and doesn’t take everything when trying to punch. Both he and Toby were at fault for the goal on Saturday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovecraft Posted May 24, 2023 Share Posted May 24, 2023 1 minute ago, Pasquale for King said: Since the mistake at Killie hes been poor, doesn’t look when he does come and doesn’t take everything when trying to punch. Both he and Toby were at fault for the goal on Saturday. Football Manager stats: Shot stopping 17/20 Command of Area 1/20 Crosses 2/20 Communication 2/20 Decisions 3/20 100% just made that up though. 😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasquale for King Posted May 24, 2023 Share Posted May 24, 2023 2 minutes ago, Lovecraft said: Football Manager stats: Shot stopping 17/20 Command of Area 1/20 Crosses 2/20 Communication 2/20 Decisions 3/20 100% just made that up though. 😉 Looks about right though 🤦🏽. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinmaroon Posted May 24, 2023 Share Posted May 24, 2023 13 minutes ago, SectionDJambo said: I argued this during the week and got a wee bit of a hard time for it. He doesn’t have, in my opinion, the necessary defensive awareness to be a central defender. I believe that to be a natural talent, similar to a natural striker, like our own John Robertson. You can coach so much, but something has to be on you first. But I think he would enhance our midfield pool as he has great energy and strong running. I like him, but he’s doing himself no favours by thinking he’s a central defender. In my opinion. Central defenders mature with age AND experience IF they're willing to learn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosanostra Posted May 24, 2023 Share Posted May 24, 2023 Our defence has been poor without Halkett all year. Kingsley needs a rest and reset because he's had a terrible season. Smith has given all he can but he's ran his race. He can leave with massive respect. Cochrane has had a great season but the rest just haven't delivered well or consistently enough. The whole defence needs a rethink and big changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SectionDJambo Posted May 25, 2023 Share Posted May 25, 2023 43 minutes ago, colinmaroon said: Central defenders mature with age AND experience IF they're willing to learn. I hope you’re right. I don’t think he’s a poor player. I like him. I just think he’d be better, and enjoy his game more, in midfield. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RudolfTheKing51 Posted May 25, 2023 Share Posted May 25, 2023 Like the poster, I’ve defended sibbick lots, I think he’s a wonderful footballer with the ball at his feet, his pace is a real asset. in the air tho, he’s horrific. Needs improvements plus his strength has a lot to be desired…. However…. No worse than Kyle Rowles who we blasted on about through the entire World Cup for being a superstar. Another CB who cost us today and has cost us a lot this season. Between the two, couldn’t win an ariel battle with a star fish. drastically requiring a Halkett or some sort of player to play beside him. For me I’d rather toby than Rowles but we need an experienced ball winning tank of a CB beside him. If only there was a 31 year old berra to come back to the club and mentor him like he did with souttar. Does everyone forget how catastrophic souttar was until he was beside a berra and halkett?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky jamboa Posted May 25, 2023 Share Posted May 25, 2023 1 hour ago, SectionDJambo said: I argued this during the week and got a wee bit of a hard time for it. He doesn’t have, in my opinion, the necessary defensive awareness to be a central defender. I believe that to be a natural talent, similar to a natural striker, like our own John Robertson. You can coach so much, but something has to be on you first. But I think he would enhance our midfield pool as he has great energy and strong running. I like him, but he’s doing himself no favours by thinking he’s a central defender. In my opinion. This is my thoughts as well. He's not commanding or aggressive enough to be a central defender. I'd like to see him in beside Beni next season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Morgan Posted May 25, 2023 Share Posted May 25, 2023 2 hours ago, Lovecraft said: Football Manager stats They are ATTRIBUTES, man! Attributes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted May 25, 2023 Share Posted May 25, 2023 5 hours ago, colinmaroon said: These daft errors, reminds me of Elvis when he was younger. Central defenders, top stars even, mature and it's 25 plus before the consistency sets in. Plenty of examples about. Plus that point of a commanding central defender would make all the difference. Yes, he's consistent all right. Consistently pish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fila Posted May 25, 2023 Share Posted May 25, 2023 I like the lad, however don’t think he is going to become to commanding CB we need ( which is a shame ) we really need to get in a powerhouse of a CB in the summer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicalEric Posted May 25, 2023 Share Posted May 25, 2023 Neither Sibbick or Rowles are that commanding centre half who are going to be horrible,physical and dominate aerially. Halkett has been a massive miss in that respect. Having him beside either of them would've made a big difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flimsy Posted May 25, 2023 Share Posted May 25, 2023 (edited) 7 hours ago, Tom Hardy’s Dug said: Well - you are right to an extent. Bit then he saved a certain goal by getting back goal-side against Morelos who would have been one on one. All that having been said I would not be massively disappointed if both Rowles and him were sold in the summer. Our defence has effectively been a shambles all season and arguably last season as well given how busy Gordon was. Me too. Rowles and Sibbick wouldn't have to make so many recovery tackles if they dealt with situations first time and their positioning was better. They both couldn't lace the boots of many of the excellent centre backs we've been lucky to see at Hearts over the years. Sibbick has been compared to Zaliuckas and Pressley on this thread, but although both took a year to settle in, they never made as many brainfarts between them over several years as out current pairing have this season alone. Edited May 25, 2023 by Flimsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hearts00 Posted May 25, 2023 Share Posted May 25, 2023 Oddly Guys like Rowles amd Sibbick have some of the attributes required to play the way Naismith wants. We will play a high line and both our CHs will have to be very quick. They need to improve quickly on other aspects obviously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Burgundy Posted May 25, 2023 Share Posted May 25, 2023 I don't think you could make a proper centre half between Rowles, Sibbick or Hill. They are all decent players but none of them are a proper ball winning centre half and you need at least one of them in a team. When Halkett returns he'll need a speedy partner though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Hardy’s Dug Posted May 25, 2023 Share Posted May 25, 2023 (edited) Is anyone slating Toby a big fan of Zal? I’d still test the market with Toby as I think he has potential and could be worth some money but (like Rowles) I doubt Scotland is the right place for him. Edited May 25, 2023 by Tom Hardy’s Dug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romulus Posted May 25, 2023 Share Posted May 25, 2023 Sibbick needs pushed into CDM or sold. Never a CB and far too many errors to nail down a position there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ari Gold Posted May 25, 2023 Share Posted May 25, 2023 Squad player next season. Or we'll still lose soft goals from crosses/set pieces. He barely even attempts to try win a header when defending a corner. Very good recovery pace which makes up for lack of positioning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ari Gold Posted May 25, 2023 Share Posted May 25, 2023 4 minutes ago, Tom Hardy’s Dug said: Is anyone slating Toby a big fan of Zal? I’d still test the market with Toby as I think he has potential and could be worth some money but (like Rowles) I doubt Scotland is the right place for him. Zaliukas could atleast win a header Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted May 25, 2023 Share Posted May 25, 2023 Not read the whole thread but as it seems populated by people who think it is certain that but for that one error we would have won the game I will not not bother. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A_A wehatethehibs Posted May 25, 2023 Share Posted May 25, 2023 See if Blackpool still have that £300k, we should’ve bit their hands off in all honesty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A_A wehatethehibs Posted May 25, 2023 Share Posted May 25, 2023 3 minutes ago, Francis Albert said: Not read the whole thread but as it seems populated by people who think it is certain that but for that one error we would have won the game I will not not bother. It’s an accumulation of many errors. That’s just the one that’s drawn everyone’s attention to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Hardy’s Dug Posted May 25, 2023 Share Posted May 25, 2023 9 minutes ago, Ari Gold said: Zaliukas could atleast win a header Not when he was having his many dodgy moments before he settled down into a very good CB. Took him at least 2 seasons though. And he had experience aplenty to learn from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jr ewing Posted May 25, 2023 Share Posted May 25, 2023 Squad player. Just not first team for now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tian447 Posted May 25, 2023 Share Posted May 25, 2023 Unfortunately he's made a mistake, and unfortunately it happened at Ibrox, when Rangers had their tails up after their last second first half equaliser. It's the exact place you don't want to make a mistake, because they will punish you, and they did. Not sure what you're wanting the boy to do. Rip his contract up, and go and become a farmer or something away from everyone? Mistakes happen. It's our own fault for chucking the first goal anyway, and there are other players who should be helping and covering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PapaShango Posted May 25, 2023 Share Posted May 25, 2023 Said on another thread days ago that he wasn’t good enough and was shot down. Clear as day that apart from a few games he’s been absolutely hopeless. That mistake last night if happening in isolation you can forgive but he makes mistakes week in week out. Time to get rid in the summer and bring in better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasquale for King Posted May 25, 2023 Share Posted May 25, 2023 7 hours ago, RudolfTheKing51 said: Like the poster, I’ve defended sibbick lots, I think he’s a wonderful footballer with the ball at his feet, his pace is a real asset. in the air tho, he’s horrific. Needs improvements plus his strength has a lot to be desired…. However…. No worse than Kyle Rowles who we blasted on about through the entire World Cup for being a superstar. Another CB who cost us today and has cost us a lot this season. Between the two, couldn’t win an ariel battle with a star fish. drastically requiring a Halkett or some sort of player to play beside him. For me I’d rather toby than Rowles but we need an experienced ball winning tank of a CB beside him. If only there was a 31 year old berra to come back to the club and mentor him like he did with souttar. Does everyone forget how catastrophic souttar was until he was beside a berra and halkett?! Spot on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasquale for King Posted May 25, 2023 Share Posted May 25, 2023 7 minutes ago, tian447 said: Unfortunately he's made a mistake, and unfortunately it happened at Ibrox, when Rangers had their tails up after their last second first half equaliser. It's the exact place you don't want to make a mistake, because they will punish you, and they did. Not sure what you're wanting the boy to do. Rip his contract up, and go and become a farmer or something away from everyone? Mistakes happen. It's our own fault for chucking the first goal anyway, and there are other players who should be helping and covering. We want him to learn how to head the ball, mark someone at set pieces and bulk up. If he doesn’t he then needs to realise that CH isn’t his best position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taffin Posted May 25, 2023 Share Posted May 25, 2023 He's got great assets - pace, one on ones and passing. Last night was a real shocker and we can't continue as we are. I still believe with an experienced partner he can become a really good player for us at cb. Him and Rowles isn't the way forward though. It one plus Halkett or a new signing for me, and I'd much prefer it to be Sibbick as I don't think Rowles has anywhere near the raw attributes of Sibbick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skacelsid Posted May 25, 2023 Share Posted May 25, 2023 Still young enough to improve further, still see him as a midfielder, good range of passing and can drive forward, could take up Harings current role ( maybe even on Saturday ), bad error last night but has done well at the back in general. Can be casual at times but see no reason why to get rid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locky Posted May 25, 2023 Share Posted May 25, 2023 14 hours ago, Cruyff said: Does the right thing 90% of the time, makes a mistake and that's what everyone sees. 🤷🏻♂️ They're no robots. Yeah I feel a bit sorry for him. Problem was it was one of the worst teams do make that mistake against and they punished us for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovecraft Posted May 25, 2023 Share Posted May 25, 2023 10 hours ago, Arthur Morgan said: They are ATTRIBUTES, man! Attributes! 😁 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PapaShango Posted May 25, 2023 Share Posted May 25, 2023 2 hours ago, Locky said: Yeah I feel a bit sorry for him. Problem was it was one of the worst teams do make that mistake against and they punished us for it. He doesn't seem to learn from them though. He constantly loses his man and runner off of him, he is so weak in the air for a CH. We could do a lot better than Sibbick back there. He may come good but I have my doubts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfatskinnyjambo97 Posted May 25, 2023 Share Posted May 25, 2023 Had a shocker last night, not the first time this season. Still think he's got all the attributes to become a good player for us. Still a young guy, cut him some slack you negative buggers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feej Posted May 25, 2023 Share Posted May 25, 2023 9 minutes ago, bigfatskinnyjambo97 said: Had a shocker last night, not the first time this season. Still think he's got all the attributes to become a good player for us. Still a young guy, cut him some slack you negative buggers! Think you're right, couple of mistakes against Aberdeen as well. Let's hope he's on his game Saturday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfatskinnyjambo97 Posted May 25, 2023 Share Posted May 25, 2023 11 minutes ago, feej said: Think you're right, couple of mistakes against Aberdeen as well. Let's hope he's on his game Saturday. Aye, he's got mistakes in him. But how many times we seen him make a 50 yard recovery run and put a challenge in as last man? He's not the finished article, but all this 'he's shite' stuff is from the tilted old losers brigade. Stick Halkett in beside him and the worst parts of his game are somewhat eliminated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleepy head Posted May 25, 2023 Share Posted May 25, 2023 If they banned heading in football tomorrow he would be a top defender.They won't and so he won't. Rowles and Hill have made mistakes but they look like centre halves and have the basics ,Sibbick just does not look like one imo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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