Toby

[ri Alban]

Hurry back a fit Halkett.

[iantjambo]

Just now, Absolute Scenes said:

He is personally responsible, fact. That mistake cost us, show me where I’ve slated him? 

 You’ve done it in this very post

 

you started a thread to single him out. On what planet is that not slating him? 

 

[PaddysBar]

Not a CD. Never has been. 

[hearts00]

Would like to see if he could play the Haring role with new CHs behind him. haring is too slow. 

[Big_Hearts_Runner]

How much did we turn down in January from Blackpool and McCarthy for him???

[chazza74]

I think right back is his position, too soft for a CB

[Newton51]

2 minutes ago, hmfc_liam06 said:

Does he get one every week?

Harsh but he has good and bad days

[Der Kaiser]

Maybe update his song?

 

I love you till my Heart breaks.

But then you made some mistakes

He divides the fans opiiiiiiiiiinions

Toby Sibbick

Edited May 24, 2023 by Der Kaiser

[Newton51]

It’s actually a hill og 

[Arthur Morgan]

Midfield or nothing for me.

[Trigger]

As much to blame for us not finishing 3rd as anyone.

 

Abysmal.

[Carter]

Having watched CH's at this club such as Jardine, Levein, McPherson, McLaren, Pressley, Ritchie, Weir, Zaliukus, Webster, to compare and contrast those with Sibbick and Rowles is a absolutely grim. 

 

Midfield is inadequate and we've got problems in full back areas. But the complete mess at CH beggars belief and the main reason Neilson got emptied. 

 

Just can't connect with these type of players. Just so far below the standard that should be representing this club given our budget. 

 

These guys are more responsible than most for this season of shite. 

[Pasquale for King]

Has a hell of a lot to learn to be a CH and also how to utilise his speed, which is only asset. 

[Absolute Scenes]

16 minutes ago, iantjambo said:

 You’ve done it in this very post

 

you started a thread to single him out. On what planet is that not slating him? 

 

In my opinion, me holding someone accountable is not directly slating them. 

[Bongo 1874]

Play him in midfield, Neilson banking off the success of player's stendel brought in.

 

Boyce and Sibbick.

 

Wouldn't know a good player if it slapped him in the pus.

 

Stan Neilson.

[suds66]

14 minutes ago, OTT said:

 

Losing 3rd is entirely a failure of our own making and totally self inflicted by the idiots we trust to run our football department. They should not be taking a wage if the average fan in the stand can point out glaring gaps in their squad building with common ****ing sense. 

Quality rant👍 Hard to argue against.

I believe our so called custodians are culpable and should look at themselves in the mirror, they have watched this capitulation unfold over the last few months and waited until it was too late to act.

 

Recruitment has been downright criminal, Savage should have been emptied along with Neilson for complete incompetence.

 

Unfortunately we are in this mess because our board are clueless.

 

They have an opportunity to address their failings by appointing a manager who has the necessary experience and ability to take the club forward, if they manage this it will be a start to getting the football department right.

 

 

[ri Alban]

1 minute ago, Bongo 1874 said:

Play him in midfield, Neilson banking off the success of player's stendel brought in.

 

Boyce and Sibbick.

 

Wouldn't know a good player if it slapped him in the pus.

 

Stan Neilson.

What a total embarrassment you are, going on about that balloon stendel. I take it he allowed you to carry the bags.

[iantjambo]

4 minutes ago, Absolute Scenes said:

In my opinion, me holding someone accountable is not directly slating them. 

 And, in my opinion. Starting a thread to single out a player, is directly slating them.

 

 

[Gregski51]

We had an 11 point lead on 3rd. Hardly his fault we aren't finishing there

[Maroonjam]

38 minutes ago, stotty said:

Get him in midfield

Said that on the match thread. Halkett back as centre back when fit. 

[iantjambo]

@BackOfTheNet deepest apologies. You were correct on the match thread 🤦🏼‍♂️ 

[mr fox]

44 minutes ago, Absolute Scenes said:

Have defended him and love him but he single handedly cost us a win tonight. Ridiculous brain fart. We’d have won that game and gone into Saturday playing for third. We’re now going in to stop us finishing 5th. Unacceptable and we need to upgrade

Said it many times he needs to be a holding midfielder and is excellent at that role. He is not the best at the back needs addressing. 

[FERRY HEARTS]

37 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

Does the right thing 90% of the time, makes a mistake and that's what everyone sees. 🤷🏻‍♂️ They're no robots. 

If only that was true mate there would be a player in there 

Marks fresh air 90 % of the time which costs us dearly 

[Bongo 1874]

2 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

What a total embarrassment you are, going on about that balloon stendel. I take it he allowed you to carry the bags.

Toby is not a centre half , the key is having him regularly involved in game which playing in midfield will do.

 

This will cut out these brainfart moments why ?

 

Because he's further up the park giving the team a chance to recover.

 

Having them in defence is suicidal.

 

You backed Neilson too the death.

 

You let you're club down.

[Libertonian_II]

45 minutes ago, hmfc_liam06 said:

Cost us many goals this season.

 

Catchy song though.

That's it😄

[Bongo 1874]

28 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

Hurry back a fit Halkett.

You slated Halkett during our championship season under Robbie, would you like me to show you?

 

Supporter my arse.

[jbee647]

32 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

Hurry back a fit Halkett.

A fit Halkett yes, but I fear Halkett is never far away from serious injury 

we need to sign at least 2 dominant experienced central defenders in the transfer window

[OTT]

6 minutes ago, suds66 said:

Quality rant👍 Hard to argue against.

I believe our so called custodians are culpable and should look at themselves in the mirror, they have watched this capitulation unfold over the last few months and waited until it was too late to act.

 

Recruitment has been downright criminal, Savage should have been emptied along with Neilson for complete incompetence.

 

Unfortunately we are in this mess because our board are clueless.

 

They have an opportunity to address their failings by appointing a manager who has the necessary experience and ability to take the club forward, if they manage this it will be a start to getting the football department right.

 

 

 

I've posted on the **** off Neilson thread, but essentially I'd like to see our structure tweaked so that the manager reports to Savage, rather than the board. I don't want Savage and the Manager to be colleagues, I want Savage accountable for the football department and I don't believe the current structure does that, it looks like it promotes too much finger pointing (Robbies fault for not getting the best out of the players/ Savages fault for not delivering the players Robbie wanted). 

 

It might be unpopular to say, but I think Levein had the right idea, it was just he wasn't up to executing his plan. Develop how you want the football club to operate (style of play, youth set up, coaches, recruitment policy etc) and then hire a manager that can carry that out. Manager reports to the DOF, DOF reports to the board. Clear accountability between each level. The problem was that Levein was allowed to have a board seat (so was never going to vote against himself), developed too close a relationship with Budge (so she wouldn't pull the trigger when it became apparent it needed to be) and was allowed to become Manager whilst also still being DOF which created too heavy a workload. 

 

I think with our current set up, where McKinley is running the business, Savage is running the sports end of the club but isn't on the board, we have close to what we need and if we replicated Leveins plan, just with better people (which IMO we now have), it would work. It makes sense on a common sense level, it was just the wrong person to execute it. 

[Jambo_Gaz]

Think about all of the mistakes our back line and keeper have made just this year alone. Staggeringly poor. 

[jtkb]

Toby is murder at headers seems to misjudge or gets no power on them reckon midfield is his best position unless he works on his heading spend whole summer with hallket seeing how is done. also kye could also do with joining in. We have missed halks so bad this season need a similar new player like halks not sure if we can rely on him for a full season his body does not seem to be able for senior football feel sorry for him 

[BackOfTheNet]

13 minutes ago, iantjambo said:

@BackOfTheNet deepest apologies. You were correct on the match thread 🤦🏼‍♂️ 

As predictable as death and taxes unfortunately. Some of this comments on this thread are shambolic knee jerk reactionary pish.

 

Some will be just angry at the error and still seething. Others clearly seeing a chance to deflect blame for this season.

[suds66]

4 minutes ago, OTT said:

 

I've posted on the **** off Neilson thread, but essentially I'd like to see our structure tweaked so that the manager reports to Savage, rather than the board. I don't want Savage and the Manager to be colleagues, I want Savage accountable for the football department and I don't believe the current structure does that, it looks like it promotes too much finger pointing (Robbies fault for not getting the best out of the players/ Savages fault for not delivering the players Robbie wanted). 

 

It might be unpopular to say, but I think Levein had the right idea, it was just he wasn't up to executing his plan. Develop how you want the football club to operate (style of play, youth set up, coaches, recruitment policy etc) and then hire a manager that can carry that out. Manager reports to the DOF, DOF reports to the board. Clear accountability between each level. The problem was that Levein was allowed to have a board seat (so was never going to vote against himself), developed too close a relationship with Budge (so she wouldn't pull the trigger when it became apparent it needed to be) and was allowed to become Manager whilst also still being DOF which created too heavy a workload. 

 

I think with our current set up, where McKinley is running the business, Savage is running the sports end of the club but isn't on the board, we have close to what we need and if we replicated Leveins plan, just with better people (which IMO we now have), it would work. It makes sense on a common sense level, it was just the wrong person to execute it. 

I agree with much of what you say.

It's going to be a big summer, the board have to get things right, starting with a manager.

 

 

 

[Rampant]

56 minutes ago, Bongo 1874 said:

Get him in midfield, but don't blame Naismith as we have no-one else.

 

Robbie should be ashamed with what he's left us with.

 

Did you not say in another thread recently that we have a decent squad?  Stendel would have them flying, no?  I get confused as to what point your trying to make sometimes.

[Libertonian_II]

53 minutes ago, OTT said:

You can add Devlin to that. All the composure of a junkie on a come down.  

 

I'm also going to add the absolute mouth breathing frauds in our football department. We pay an awful lot of money to so called "football people" who are supposed to know more than your average fan, and we all knew our defence was soft as shite and needing experience, so we sign... James Hill a 20 year old with virtually no experience. Had we brought in an experienced "Heid the baw" type defender, we'd have had a good enough partner for Rowles and we'd have picked up enough points to finish 3rd. 

 

I'm so pissed off at how much of a ****ing let down the folk running the football team actually are. You need experienced defenders, because experience usually buys you composure which means less mistakes in crucial moments and as we've seen time, and time and time again this season, we love a mistake in a crucial moment because we have no experience in key areas at the back. 

 

Yes, we can blame Toby, but if our squad was being managed correctly we'd have had an experienced defender brought in which would have relegated Toby to either the bench, or midfield (where his ball playing ability could be better utilised). 

 

We've taken two soft defenders and paired them up with each other. What did we expect to happen? Does anyone in our football department actually have any common sense? They are too alike to get the best out of each other, and neither is the clear leader. You build teams from the back, and our defence is like a ****ing tea cake - soft in the middle. You can't build a successful team that leaks totally avoidable goals every ****ing week. We should have beat Hibs, we should have beat St Mirren, we should have won tonight (I don't care if Rangers at Ibrox, they were not at the races today and still we couldn't get it over the line). 

 

Losing 3rd is entirely a failure of our own making and totally self inflicted by the idiots we trust to run our football department. They should not be taking a wage if the average fan in the stand can point out glaring gaps in their squad building with common ****ing sense. 

*yawn*

[Pasquale for King]

9 minutes ago, jtkb said:

Toby is murder at headers seems to misjudge or gets no power on them reckon midfield is his best position unless he works on his heading spend whole summer with hallket seeing how is done. also kye could also do with joining in. We have missed halks so bad this season need a similar new player like halks not sure if we can rely on him for a full season his body does not seem to be able for senior football feel sorry for him 

Spot on, headers and gym work for both of them. 

[OTT]

47 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

Hurry back a fit Halkett.

 

For what? We needed him 10 games ago. 

[OTT]

1 minute ago, Libertonian_II said:

*yawn*

 

Superb contribution. 

[Bongo 1874]

Just now, Rampant said:

 

Did you not say in another thread recently that we have a decent squad?  Stendel would have them flying, no?  I get confused as to what point your trying to make sometimes.

We do have a decent squad, in terms of style of play etc what did he leave?

 

Then you have the old pals act with player's like Halliday and Smith.

 

Not good enough.

 

People are expecting miracles from Naismith similar too Stendel, Naismith is changing the culture and mentality of the club, Robbie had 3 and a half years to do that.

 

There's more fight in that team now than there ever was under Robbie.

 

[OTT]

Just now, Bongo 1874 said:

We do have a decent squad, in terms of style of play etc what did he leave?

 

Then you have the old pals act with player's like Halliday and Smith.

 

Not good enough.

 

People are expecting miracles from Naismith similar too Stendel, Naismith is changing the culture and mentality of the club, Robbie had 3 and a half years to do that.

 

There's more fight in that team now than there ever was under Robbie.

 

 

We absolutely have a talented squad, its just weak and lacks leadership. A few strong characters and a proper old school CB and we'll have enough robustness about us to actually do something. Pairing Rowles up with a CB that compliments him, getting Sibbick into midfield and Devlin onto the bench would be a few easy steps we could take to improve our quality in big games. 

[H2]

1 hour ago, Absolute Scenes said:

Have defended him and love him but he single handedly cost us a win tonight. Ridiculous brain fart. We’d have won that game and gone into Saturday playing for third. We’re now going in to stop us finishing 5th. Unacceptable and we need to upgrade

Didn't you see the first goal that they scored, numerous mistakes there. 

His error is more acceptable than yours!

[Rampant]

1 minute ago, Bongo 1874 said:

We do have a decent squad, in terms of style of play etc what did he leave?

 

Then you have the old pals act with player's like Halliday and Smith.

 

Not good enough.

 

People are expecting miracles from Naismith similar too Stendel, Naismith is changing the culture and mentality of the club, Robbie had 3 and a half years to do that.

 

There's more fight in that team now than there ever was under Robbie.

 

 

You implied we have to play Sibbick in defence because there's no-one else. So you did make it out to be a personnel problem, but now you are not saying its personnel, but style of play etc.

 

Whatever Neilson left in terms of style, has been quite quickly improved upon, by a rookie manager. Doesn't say much for Neilson but also not the huge problem many make it out to be.

 

I just thought it was an unnecessary dig at someone who's away from the club now. That has been dealt with, let's look forward.

[Bongo 1874]

Just now, OTT said:

 

We absolutely have a talented squad, its just weak and lacks leadership. A few strong characters and a proper old school CB and we'll have enough robustness about us to actually do something. Pairing Rowles up with a CB that compliments him, getting Sibbick into midfield and Devlin onto the bench would be a few easy steps we could take to improve our quality in big games. 

Not saying Naismith deserves job,but it's clear too see he's trying to change the mentality of certain player's.

 

There's this fear factor of Celtic and Rangers , Naismith has come in and said you know what you can do with that, stick it right up yer ass,we fear no-one both Edinburgh clubs should be embarrassed how far off they are the old firm,this mentality of fear needs to stop.

 

They have brainwashed everyone ,respect them as a team but why can't we compete and beat them?

 

This is why clubs in Europe beat them ,they look at proper teams like City, Barca etc in awe,

 

But when these European teams come to play against them, they show no fear.

 

That's the mentality we have to have.

 

I'm ****ing sick off it mate.

 

We can take points off them we just showed we can.

 

Every time they play at Tynecastle we make it hell for them.

 

 

With Beni, Boyce, Halkett, Gordon, back.

 

 

We will destroy teams.

 

Set them up too attack and press relentlessly we will destroy them.

 

 

 

 

[Bazzas right boot]

1 hour ago, Absolute Scenes said:

Have defended him and love him but he single handedly cost us a win tonight. Ridiculous brain fart. We’d have won that game and gone into Saturday playing for third. We’re now going in to stop us finishing 5th. Unacceptable and we need to upgrade

 

Well, he probably needed you as he can't defend himself.

 

 

[Bongo 1874]

2 minutes ago, Rampant said:

 

You implied we have to play Sibbick in defence because there's no-one else. So you did make it out to be a personnel problem, but now you are not saying its personnel, but style of play etc.

 

Whatever Neilson left in terms of style, has been quite quickly improved upon, by a rookie manager. Doesn't say much for Neilson but also not the huge problem many make it out to be.

 

I just thought it was an unnecessary dig at someone who's away from the club now. That has been dealt with, let's look forward.

Does Toby play if Halkett Is fit ?

 

Did Neilson rush him back against Zurich? similar to Levein playing Haring in cup final which resulted in him being out for over a year.

 

They are so similar it's incredible.

[pettigrewsstylist]

could see him next to Beni tbh

[Bongo 1874]

1 minute ago, Bazzas right boot said:

 

Well, he probably needed you as he can't defend himself.

 

 

Why did Robbie sign him then ?

[Bazzas right boot]

10 minutes ago, OTT said:

 

We absolutely have a talented squad, its just weak and lacks leadership. A few strong characters and a proper old school CB and we'll have enough robustness about us to actually do something. Pairing Rowles up with a CB that compliments him, getting Sibbick into midfield and Devlin onto the bench would be a few easy steps we could take to improve our quality in big games. 

 

 

Our squad isn't that talented. 

 

It has decent forwards and full backs. 

 

It has a poor central midfield and poor central defence,  partly due to injuries and party during to recruitment.

 

Theses issues and the ones you mention weren't solved by sacking the manager,  they were never going to be.

 

[Bongo 1874]

2 minutes ago, Bazzas right boot said:

 

 

Our squad isn't that talented. 

 

It has decent forwards and full backs. 

 

It has a poor central midfield and poor central defence,  partly due to injuries and party during to recruitment.

 

Theses issues and the ones you mention weren't solved by sacking the manager,  they were never going to be.

 

That same manager had 3 and a half years to build a squad.

 

But it was always about short term success wasn't it, Neilson and Levein eh me me me me, as soon as the pound signs were flashed at them they couldn't get away quick enough.

 

 

Edited May 24, 2023 by Bongo 1874

[Rampant]

Just now, Bongo 1874 said:

Does Toby play if Halkett Is fit ?

 

Did Neilson rush him back against Zurich? similar to Levein playing Haring in cup final which resulted in him being out for over a year.

 

They are so similar it's incredible.

 

A very fair point, but not the same point as when you said he's left us with a poor style of play.  It's all a bit confused.

 

Neilson made a mistake in rushing Halkett back.  He made an even bigger one not replacing him in January.

 

But even this post you mention Levein, who we're not talking about.  Neilson, Stendel, Levein. All away from the club, some for years.  It's all a bit tiresome.

[Bazzas right boot]

2 minutes ago, Bongo 1874 said:

Why did Robbie sign him then ?

 

Maybe to be back up to Souttar and Halkett for a few seasons and slip in and out the side .

Unfortunately recruitment let that down and he's been over used.

 

Maybe it was for the right side of a back 3 to play along side experienced defenders and compliment them, but injuries and recruitment broke that.

 

Maybe he was the best option available. 

 

Maybe Savage wanted him signed.

 

Maybe he likes signing inappropriate players that will lead to a gradual down turn In results so he gets sacked.

 

Why do you think?