**** Heart Of Midlothian V St Mirren OFFICIAL MATCH THREAD ****

[A_A wehatethehibs]

Just now, OTT said:

 

Think the loss of Halkett as exposed how weak our other CBs are.

 

The issue I have with this is, we had the chance to sort it in January and we got Hill. Just not the type we needed - at all. 

[5jambo1]

15 minutes ago, Clerry Jambo said:

Excellent post mate when I seen that team it was typical Neilson. You would have thought a man pinned in the corner desperate for a result would have put his few attacking flair players in the side hoping they can turn up for him, it was an awful team selection and got what it deserved. Don’t think I have ever left Tynie with half an hour to go…..

The only thing I can think of is he wanted the ‘grafters’ playing. Kind of understand in a way but was never going to work, need a balance and we had absolutely nothing going forward. 

[OTT]

2 minutes ago, A_A wehatethehibs said:

 

The issue I have with this is, we had the chance to sort it in January and we got Hill. Just not the type we needed - at all. 

 

The winter window was bad recruitment. We didn't strengthen in any area, and we brought in players that weren't first team quality for some reason. 

 

I have absolutely no idea what those at the club were thinking but its cost us 3rd.

 

In the summer we need to be looking for experience and strong characters. The last month has been woeful. 

[Scott Leitch]

10 hours ago, Bazzas right boot said:

 

Not backing any man tbh, Bob has an influence on the defence, who plays , the formation and the players we buy or don't buy. He has some blame, but the inability of our central defenders to win a header is ridiculous.

Tbh, Everything isn't black and white.

 

Someone said Rowles was a £10m player on here during the wc, they guy gets bullied every game.

 

Some blame? Come on. He bought these central defenders remember 

[5jambo1]

4 minutes ago, A_A wehatethehibs said:

 

The issue I have with this is, we had the chance to sort it in January and we got Hill. Just not the type we needed - at all. 

100%! we needed a no nonsense centre back who’s main strength is in the air. It’s been glaringly obvious every single game Halkett doesn’t play, that we are so vulnerable at the back 

[Jingle Bells]

Don't know why  Neilson plays Halliday as a CM when he is much better as a left=sided  midfielder who carries a goal threat from there

Equally why did he play Grant, who was hopeless, at left midfield when he is a CM,, by trade?

 

[jambopilms]

19 minutes ago, 5jambo1 said:

100%! we needed a no nonsense centre back who’s main strength is in the air. It’s been glaringly obvious every single game Halkett doesn’t play, that we are so vulnerable at the back 

This has been obvious for a few seasons, anytime Halkett is out we struggle, Souter wasn't the same with him.

[Hearts1975]

8 minutes ago, Jingle Bells said:

Don't know why  Neilson plays Halliday as a CM when he is much better as a left=sided  midfielder who carries a goal threat from there

Equally why did he play Grant, who was hopeless, at left midfield when he is a CM,, by trade?

 

It was supposed to be a 4-2-3-1 with  Halliday and dev DM , grant AML, 

Nae idea then where Snodgrass was supposed to be playing.

Looked like by all accounts no one bothered to tell him either. 

The beeb had him down as AMC when he wasn't even near that position 

 

[Snedescu]

31 minutes ago, 5jambo1 said:

100%! we needed a no nonsense centre back who’s main strength is in the air. It’s been glaringly obvious every single game Halkett doesn’t play, that we are so vulnerable at the back 

The only other defender we have who can header a ball is Lewis Neilson. He has his flaws and easy to say with hindsight but he would not have been as easily bullied as our defenders yesterday. 

[jambopilms]

4 minutes ago, Snedescu said:

The only other defender we have who can header a ball is Lewis Neilson. He has his flaws and easy to say with hindsight but he would not have been as easily bullied as our defenders yesterday. 

Lewis Neilson can't defend either.

[Pasquale for King]

Jurgen Klopp has just said he is 100% responsible for this rubbish season, no chance ours would ever take that sort of blame. No wonder the players have stopped playing for him. 

[pettigrewsstylist]

38 minutes ago, Jingle Bells said:

Don't know why  Neilson plays Halliday as a CM when he is much better as a left=sided  midfielder who carries a goal threat from there

Equally why did he play Grant, who was hopeless, at left midfield when he is a CM,, by trade?

 

Had him and Kingsley played together on left before? Cant recall seeing it. 

Was this tinkerman genius again?

[Pasquale for King]

17 minutes ago, Snedescu said:

The only other defender we have who can header a ball is Lewis Neilson. He has his flaws and easy to say with hindsight but he would not have been as easily bullied as our defenders yesterday. 

They’re not being coached properly, the manager and coach could head the ball so why aren’t they working on attacking cross balls? Its a basic skill for defenders and cant take long to learn. 

[Pasquale for King]

40 minutes ago, Jingle Bells said:

Don't know why  Neilson plays Halliday as a CM when he is much better as a left=sided  midfielder who carries a goal threat from there

Equally why did he play Grant, who was hopeless, at left midfield when he is a CM,, by trade?

 

Spot on

[Jingle Bells]

32 minutes ago, Hearts1975 said:

It was supposed to be a 4-2-3-1 with  Halliday and dev DM , grant AML, 

Nae idea then where Snodgrass was supposed to be playing.

Looked like by all accounts no one bothered to tell him either. 

The beeb had him down as AMC when he wasn't even near that position 

 

My point was Neilson  got it the wrong way around as far as where Halliday and Grant were playing.

 

I dont mind Halliday wide left but as a CM he contributes very little ,imho

Edited April 9, 2023 by Jingle Bells

[upgotheheads]

30 minutes ago, Hearts1975 said:

It was supposed to be a 4-2-3-1 with  Halliday and dev DM , grant AML, 

Nae idea then where Snodgrass was supposed to be playing.

Looked like by all accounts no one bothered to tell him either. 

The beeb had him down as AMC when he wasn't even near that position 

 

 

It looked like a back three to me, but it wouldn't have mattered what the formation is if we continue to play this ludicrous starting position of two players standing at the corner of the six yard box and then trying to play the ball through a midfield devoid of form and players like the Haring of old, Barry McKay, Boyce ,Ginnelly, and Beni, and a striker who is having to play as a No 10 with nobody to play off him.

Our player shuffling has robbed players of their form, and the team of any recognisable shape. The root cause of all this is Neilson's obsession with the kind of game that is played by teams in Europe's top leagues. Yesterday and last week we lost to teams with nothing except decent journeymen players, and who played route one from the goalie, and then managed to close down our fancy dannery.

[tntjambo]

His team are like him a boring bland un inspiring Manager Dundee United fans had parties when he left he needs to go his time is up and his failure has cost the club millions 

[pettigrewsstylist]

4 minutes ago, upgotheheads said:

 

It looked like a back three to me, but it wouldn't have mattered what the formation is if we continue to play this ludicrous starting position of two players standing at the corner of the six yard box and then trying to play the ball through a midfield devoid of form and players like the Haring of old, Barry McKay, Boyce ,Ginnelly, and Beni, and a striker who is having to play as a No 10 with nobody to play off him.

Our player shuffling has robbed players of their form, and the team of any recognisable shape. The root cause of all this is Neilson's obsession with the kind of game that is played by teams in Europe's top leagues. Yesterday and last week we lost to teams with nothing except decent journeymen players, and who played route one from the goalie, and then managed to close down our fancy dannery.

Robinsons after match said that the plan was to "GUIDE" hearts to parts of the pitch were mistakes could be costly. Wether it worked or not is irrelevant. Playing a system without the skill to carry it off has vultures circling and reduces us to a disaster in waiting. 

Gift to play against. Shankland carried us , now he cant.

[periodictabledancer]

27 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

They’re not being coached properly, the manager and coach could head the ball so why aren’t they working on attacking cross balls? Its a basic skill for defenders and cant take long to learn. 

I've said on here repeateldy this season, Hearts need a defensive coach because it's been clear  the current level of "coaching" simply isn't good enough.  Add to the mix , one poster claiming RN doesn't really work on defensive drills and you have to wonder WTF has been going on. It reeks of the chaos of the Levein "era" . 

[Japan Jambo]

1 minute ago, periodictabledancer said:

I've said on here repeateldy this season, Hearts need a defensive coach because it's been clear  the current level of "coaching" simply isn't good enough.  Add to the mix , one poster claiming RN doesn't really work on defensive drills and you have to wonder WTF has been going on. It reeks of the chaos of the Levein "era" . 

 

Golf and holidays would appear to be the answer, at least for the international break.

[periodictabledancer]

Just now, Japan Jambo said:

 

Golf and holidays would appear to be the answer, at least for the international break.

Yeah, I saw that post. It's staggering and when you look back at the Cathro & Levein debacles, it doesn't paint the club in a good light at all. 

[Pasquale for King]

3 minutes ago, periodictabledancer said:

I've said on here repeateldy this season, Hearts need a defensive coach because it's been clear  the current level of "coaching" simply isn't good enough.  Add to the mix , one poster claiming RN doesn't really work on defensive drills and you have to wonder WTF has been going on. It reeks of the chaos of the Levein "era" . 

Definitely, and if he cant coach the defence he certainly won’t be helping the attack. 

[Hearts1975]

12 minutes ago, upgotheheads said:

 

It looked like a back three to me, but it wouldn't have mattered what the formation is if we continue to play this ludicrous starting position of two players standing at the corner of the six yard box and then trying to play the ball through a midfield devoid of form and players like the Haring of old, Barry McKay, Boyce ,Ginnelly, and Beni, and a striker who is having to play as a No 10 with nobody to play off him.

Our player shuffling has robbed players of their form, and the team of any recognisable shape. The root cause of all this is Neilson's obsession with the kind of game that is played by teams in Europe's top leagues. Yesterday and last week we lost to teams with nothing except decent journeymen players, and who played route one from the goalie, and then managed to close down our fancy dannery.

 Certainly don't disagree with any of that. I see where you are going with the 3-4-3, certainly in the right side with hill tucked in the RCB and then smith running the channel but what confused me and the reason for thinking it was a 4-2-3-1, was on the other side, Kingsley looked like he was playing more like a FB than a CB and we didn't have an outright LWB. 

But I'll also add that at times the formation confuses me and it seems to just morph of its own accord in games. Robbie might know what he is trying to do but I don't get it most if the time at all 

Passing out from the back is one thing but when you have hill booting the ball right across the back line with their players running across the line and intercepting the ball you just have to say that the defensive players don't appear confident with what they are being told to do.

Pass out from the back then it's hot potato stuff and just a case of them trying to somehow get it up the park 

Clumsy and downright dangerous imo 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[jamboozy]

1 hour ago, OTT said:

 

Think the loss of Halkett as exposed how weak our other CBs are.

Is he any closer to coming back?! I think, like others, that Savage better be looking at replacing our woeful and injury prone duds.

[Pasquale for King]

19 minutes ago, upgotheheads said:

 

It looked like a back three to me, but it wouldn't have mattered what the formation is if we continue to play this ludicrous starting position of two players standing at the corner of the six yard box and then trying to play the ball through a midfield devoid of form and players like the Haring of old, Barry McKay, Boyce ,Ginnelly, and Beni, and a striker who is having to play as a No 10 with nobody to play off him.

Our player shuffling has robbed players of their form, and the team of any recognisable shape. The root cause of all this is Neilson's obsession with the kind of game that is played by teams in Europe's top leagues. Yesterday and last week we lost to teams with nothing except decent journeymen players, and who played route one from the goalie, and then managed to close down our fancy dannery.

Good post.
If you think about it hes not moving to a bigger club up here, clubs down south don’t appear to be interested either. He probably thinks he will need to move abroad to get another job so hes trying to play a continental style that really isn’t suited to the game here. 

[Pasquale for King]

7 minutes ago, Japan Jambo said:

 

Golf and holidays would appear to be the answer, at least for the international break.

He will have plenty of time for those two things shortly. 

[Jambo61]

45 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

They’re not being coached properly, the manager and coach could head the ball so why aren’t they working on attacking cross balls? Its a basic skill for defenders and cant take long to learn. 

Maybe it's a health and safety thing, all these concussions and early dementia showing through for ex-players........hearts are leading the way to the new style football.......trailblazers!

[pettigrewsstylist]

18 minutes ago, periodictabledancer said:

I've said on here repeateldy this season, Hearts need a defensive coach because it's been clear  the current level of "coaching" simply isn't good enough.  Add to the mix , one poster claiming RN doesn't really work on defensive drills and you have to wonder WTF has been going on. It reeks of the chaos of the Levein "era" . 

If that were true, we really are in deep poo with a mentalist at the helm. Surely not!

[pettigrewsstylist]

3 minutes ago, Jambo61 said:

Maybe it's a health and safety thing, all these concussions and early dementia showing through for ex-players........hearts are leading the way to the new style football.......trailblazers!

 

[Jambo61]

2 minutes ago, pettigrewsstylist said:

 

Imagine how slow they would be with that gear on!!!!!!!!!!!

[pettigrewsstylist]

7 minutes ago, Jambo61 said:

Imagine how slow they would be with that gear on!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorts out the flailing elbow issue aswell tho. Could work...

[Japan Jambo]

23 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

He will have plenty of time for those two things shortly. 

 

🤞 though the fact it hasn't happened already indicates to me that they don't necessarily have a back up plan in the drawer.

[Marvin]

I finally watched Robbie's post match. Jeez he says the same thing every week. Why can't he see whatever he says it's not working? He's a fecking idiot and is out his depth. 

[Kev1998]

54 minutes ago, upgotheheads said:

 

It looked like a back three to me, but it wouldn't have mattered what the formation is if we continue to play this ludicrous starting position of two players standing at the corner of the six yard box and then trying to play the ball through a midfield devoid of form and players like the Haring of old, Barry McKay, Boyce ,Ginnelly, and Beni, and a striker who is having to play as a No 10 with nobody to play off him.

Our player shuffling has robbed players of their form, and the team of any recognisable shape. The root cause of all this is Neilson's obsession with the kind of game that is played by teams in Europe's top leagues. Yesterday and last week we lost to teams with nothing except decent journeymen players, and who played route one from the goalie, and then managed to close down our fancy dannery.

Every part of this is spot on upgothe heads.well done.

[bawheed]

2 hours ago, Jingle Bells said:

Don't know why  Neilson plays Halliday as a CM when he is much better as a left=sided  midfielder who carries a goal threat from there

Equally why did he play Grant, who was hopeless, at left midfield when he is a CM,, by trade?

 

Only RN knows the answer to that question 

In my opinion it’s part of the reason we are pish every week.

 

 

[Bazzas right boot]

13 hours ago, lost in space said:

I honestly hope you enjoy the rest of the evening.

You have stuck by Neilson - and Levein before that. You have been honest and said you will be loyal to next manager too.

You have insulted a few posters but you have taken the insults also.

Your reply to criticism of Neilson has mostly been - " but we are 3rd".

What now? Is it to be "but we are 4th"/"5th" ??

 

 

 

I've said if he finishes 5th or 6th he should be sacked , 4th I'm 50/50, 3rd he stays.

 

Perfectly rational imo. 

 

 

 

[pettigrewsstylist]

Is it okay to go pee pee yet?

 

[lost in space]

3 minutes ago, Bazzas right boot said:

 

 

I've said if he finishes 5th or 6th he should be sacked , 4th I'm 50/50, 3rd he stays.

 

Perfectly rational imo. 

 

 

 

Not unreasonable.

I don't agree of course but that's OK.

[No Idle Talk]

All talk of formations and lineups has gone out the window now for me. It is rearranging deckchairs on the Titanic at this point. 

 

The bigger issue is that the players aren't playing for the manager. There has been speculation on here as to why that is. Whatever the reason, until Robbie fixes that issue we are only going in one direction - backwards. 

 

I don't know if he can get the players back on board at this point. Next Saturday is win or lose your job as far as I am concerned. 

[upgotheheads]

1 hour ago, Hearts1975 said:

 Certainly don't disagree with any of that. I see where you are going with the 3-4-3, certainly in the right side with hill tucked in the RCB and then smith running the channel but what confused me and the reason for thinking it was a 4-2-3-1, was on the other side, Kingsley looked like he was playing more like a FB than a CB and we didn't have an outright LWB. 

But I'll also add that at times the formation confuses me and it seems to just morph of its own accord in games. Robbie might know what he is trying to do but I don't get it most if the time at all 

Passing out from the back is one thing but when you have hill booting the ball right across the back line with their players running across the line and intercepting the ball you just have to say that the defensive players don't appear confident with what they are being told to do.

Pass out from the back then it's hot potato stuff and just a case of them trying to somehow get it up the park 

Clumsy and downright dangerous imo 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

We got away with those long diagonals (fortunately)  but they are very risky, and surely they're not part of the plan. They were played from deep too, to  players who were in their own half usually so they were not letting us get behind the St. Mirren line.

[lost in space]

2 minutes ago, No Idle Talk said:

All talk of formations and lineups has gone out the window now for me. It is rearranging deckchairs on the Titanic at this point. 

 

The bigger issue is that the players aren't playing for the manager. There has been speculation on here as to why that is. Whatever the reason, until Robbie fixes that issue we are only going in one direction - backwards. 

 

I don't know if he can get the players back on board at this point. Next Saturday is win or lose your job as far as I am concerned. 

To use your analogue/s-  do we want the players back on board if we are the Titanic?

[upgotheheads]

3 hours ago, 5jambo1 said:

100%! we needed a no nonsense centre back who’s main strength is in the air. It’s been glaringly obvious every single game Halkett doesn’t play, that we are so vulnerable at the back 

 

I seem to remember during the window that there was a lot of debate about us needing cover a CB. We didn't recruit an experienced player and now we're paying the price.

[Bazzas right boot]

Just now, lost in space said:

To use your analogue/s-  do we want the players back on board if we are the Titanic?

 

 

There will be a big turnover of players this summer,  no matter who the manager is.

Many aren't good enough.

 

 

 

[chrystaf]

3 hours ago, Thomaso said:

What has happened to Kingsley? He is now a pale shadow of the fantastic player he was for us previously!

It's called the Robbie Syndrome. It's afflicting all our players.  There is a cure and we all know what it is.

[Hearts1975]

Just now, upgotheheads said:

 

We got away with those long diagonals (fortunately)  but they are very risky, and surely they're not part of the plan. They were played from deep too, to  players who were in their own half usually so they were not letting us get behind the St. Mirren line.

sorry, that was my poor wording ... should have said as a result of not being confident in being told what to do the alternative of booting the cross field passes isnt what we want to see 

Its like what Robinson said after the game. happy to let us swarm the possession stats in our defensive third and selectively pick off the areas where they can hurt us.

A pretty simplistic tactic but one that hurts us every single time. 

Unfortunately its only the manager that can change it but its head in the sand stuff at this moment in time where thats concerned 

[Bazzas right boot]

2 minutes ago, upgotheheads said:

 

I seem to remember during the window that there was a lot of debate about us needing cover a CB. We didn't recruit an experienced player and now we're paying the price.

 

Massively. 

 

We might have tried to get folk in but we really should have made sure this happened.

[feej]

2 minutes ago, Bazzas right boot said:

 

 

There will be a big turnover of players this summer,  no matter who the manager is.

Many aren't good enough.

 

 

 

Retain, Gordon & Clark, Sibbick, Beni, Boyce and Shankland and the rest can go.

Witnessed a team lacking in confidence y'day, game intelligence and game management. Witnessed a coach that has run his race. 

Robinson on the other hand, encouraging, directing and ensuring his game plan was delivered.

 

[Bazzas right boot]

5 minutes ago, chrystaf said:

It's called the Robbie Syndrome. It's afflicting all our players.  There is a cure and we all know what it is.

 

That's shite as Bob turned him round into a good player.

[Hearts1975]

5 minutes ago, Bazzas right boot said:

 

That's shite as Bob turned him round into a good player.

he was already a good player when he got here tbf 

[OTT]

2 hours ago, periodictabledancer said:

I've said on here repeateldy this season, Hearts need a defensive coach because it's been clear  the current level of "coaching" simply isn't good enough.  Add to the mix , one poster claiming RN doesn't really work on defensive drills and you have to wonder WTF has been going on. It reeks of the chaos of the Levein "era" . 

 

Its actually depressing the life out of me that we're still ran so amateurly. 

 

Why is expecting our professional footballers to be fit, or our coaches to coach basics like defensive drills so ****ing hard. Its like they're taking the piss out of us. The level of fitness that Stendel witnessed professionally speaking was a ****ing embarrassment for a club that pays professional wages. 

 

Something needs to change at the club, we seem soft as shite and too accepting of mediocrity. If Neilson ends up staying, I want his 2 assistant coaches gone. That coaching standards are woeful. Tactically we look inept, defensively we're piss weak and when we attack we don't seem to know what we're trying to do. Shanks goal at Killie was against the run of play and largely a brilliant bit of individualism from him - not a result of great tactical foresight. 

 

A badly coached poorly motivated team. I mean WTF is going on at Riccarton. Its pathetic.