Defensively Embarrassing

[pettigrewsstylist]

3 hours ago, Gordon Ramsay said:

 

Wasn't addressed in the summer and now costing us every week. 

Totally, despite being screamed from the rooftops.

[NB GIN]

30 minutes ago, Bazzas right boot said:

 

 

It's not.

We didn't give much away, but what we do give away is really avoidable. 

He's right, it's really frustrating.

 

 

Pretty easy to understand if you're not thick.

 

 

Interesting insight from yourself. 
“Easy to understand if you’re not thick “ you say 

 

Nope it isn’t computing with me this statement you cannot defend well and concede 4 goals. 
Are you drunk ? 

[NB GIN]

1 hour ago, kingantti1874 said:

given we have to rely on these players until Halkett and Rowles back you don’t think he’s maybe just maybe trying to encourage them? 
 

I’m sure tearing strips of players who are playing out of position due to a chronic injury chrisis would be a better way to deal with it 

We will be a different team with them back for sure 

[pettigrewsstylist]

2 hours ago, Tazio said:

Which mistakes exactly? The deflection off his leg today when he was attempting to make a block, as he should have been? What others? 

Ive seen absolutley nothing from him so far we couldnt have got from any championship side in Scotland.

In his defence dont think he has been injured yet.

[Rudy T]

Have we played the same defence two games in a row this season? Between shape changes and injuries there’s been absolutely no continuity. Every good team is built on a solid defence and we’ve been without anything like a solid defence since almost the start of the season. Until we have the semblance of a settled defence we’ll continue to ship goals. 
 

The consolation is we are creating chances, it’s going to be Keegan style outscore the opposition type stuff until after the WC break. I really hope Shankland takes real confidence from today and starts putting away his chances we absolutely need him right now.

[RedStarRiot]

1 minute ago, NB GIN said:

Interesting insight from yourself. 
“Easy to understand if you’re not thick “ you say 

 

Nope it isn’t computing with me this statement you cannot defend well and concede 4 goals. 
Are you drunk ? 

I think he means in general terms they played okay when it came to limiting clear cut chances, pushing up and keeping a line etc.

 

Punished each time that we ****ed up really but ultimately you are right. It's obviously not a good defensive display if you concede 4. 

 

I'm also going to put this out there.

 

Craig Gordon wasn't good today. Well below his best but if anybody gets a free pass for having an off day it's him. 

 

Accountable for 2 at least and his distribution was shocking. 

[graygo]

5 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

Andy Considine. He was ****ing awful at Aberdeen, is awful at St Johnstone and will be awful until he retires.

Serious shite being thrown here by people who I doubt have been at any Hearts games apart from ones where Hibs were opposition.

 

Aye but....... wibble wibble ......... Robbie oot.

[Boris5115]

4 minutes ago, NB GIN said:

Interesting insight from yourself. 
“Easy to understand if you’re not thick “ you say 

 

Nope it isn’t computing with me this statement you cannot defend well and concede 4 goals. 
Are you drunk ? 

He doesn't have to be drunk to talk Tom kite it comes naturally to him. 

[stirlo]

3 minutes ago, Rudy T said:

Have we played the same defence two games in a row this season? Between shape changes and injuries there’s been absolutely no continuity. Every good team is built on a solid defence and we’ve been without anything like a solid defence since almost the start of the season. Until we have the semblance of a settled defence we’ll continue to ship goals. 
 

The consolation is we are creating chances, it’s going to be Keegan style outscore the opposition type stuff until after the WC break. I really hope Shankland takes real confidence from today and starts putting away his chances we absolutely need him right now.

 

Yes - that's why I've never really understood the more defensive approach in some of the games earlier this season. When you cannot defend you're probably as well trying to spend as much of the game in the opposition half as you can. In fairness, when we pressed the Celtic defence today they looked really shakey. 

[Sinbad the Sailor]

1 hour ago, Gordon Ramsay said:

 

Sibbicks shite and Kingsley isn't a centre half, not aggressive enough. 

 

Another centre half should have been signed in the summer, most clubs have at least 3 decent centre backs. We knew we were competing in Europe as well. Not good enough. 

We had what we thought was 4 in fact 5 if you include Haring. 

[stirlo]

10 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

Andy Considine. He was ****ing awful at Aberdeen, is awful at St Johnstone and will be awful until he retires.

Serious shite being thrown here by people who I doubt have been at any Hearts games apart from ones where Hibs were opposition.

 

He was not 'awful'. He was the mainstay of an Aberdeen defence in an Aberdeen team that was consistently finishing in the top 3. But even leaving that to one side, I think most people would agree he's a better central defender than Sibbick - and more comfortable in central defence than Kingsley and Cochrane.

[liam11]

Currently getting everything we deserve for not acquiring another centre half in the summer.

 

An absolute unmitigated disaster of a decision that should put those responsible at the club on very shoogly pegs.

 

We can play like that in these games till the cows come home, it’s all irrelevant when you cannot do the basics in defence.

 

Without Halkett and Rowles, I have no doubt at all in saying we are relegation material. 

Edited October 22, 2022 by liam11

[NB GIN]

13 minutes ago, Boris5115 said:

He doesn't have to be drunk to talk Tom kite it comes naturally to him. 

Fact 

[Leveins Battalion]

Not signing a centre half in the Summer was an absolute disaster by the club.

 

 

[NB GIN]

14 minutes ago, RedStarRiot said:

I think he means in general terms they played okay when it came to limiting clear cut chances, pushing up and keeping a line etc.

 

Punished each time that we ****ed up really but ultimately you are right. It's obviously not a good defensive display if you concede 4. 

 

I'm also going to put this out there.

 

Craig Gordon wasn't good today. Well below his best but if anybody gets a free pass for having an off day it's him. 

 

Accountable for 2 at least and his distribution was shocking. 

It wasn’t his best game that’s for sure but absolutely gets a pass. 

[Tom Hardy’s Dug]

**** off Boris

[amadjambo]

13 minutes ago, stirlo said:

 

He was not 'awful'. He was the mainstay of an Aberdeen defence in an Aberdeen team that was consistently finishing in the top 3. But even leaving that to one side, I think most people would agree he's a better central defender than Sibbick - and more comfortable in central defence than Kingsley and Cochrane.

I just threw his name out as an example of the types of cheap experienced players that can be signed as squad players. Ideally I’d like better though. We don’t seem to make signings like that these days, and our squad is light as a result.

[amadjambo]

Halkett is the crucial player for us. I don’t think any of us have seen enough of Rowles to know if he is the solution or not. Looked decent but I thought he was easily dragged out of position when he did play. When they are both back, we will no doubt revert to a back 3 to shoehorn Kingsley and Cochrane into the team. Can’t be worse than what we are seeing at the back right now though.

[westbow]

54 minutes ago, Bazzas right boot said:

 

 

It's not.

We didn't give much away, but what we do give away is really avoidable. 

He's right, it's really frustrating.

 

 

Pretty easy to understand if you're not thick.

 

 

We gave away four goals due to slack play. What part of that is brilliant defending? God I must be thick. Has it become so normalised to concede four plus goals at home that it is acceptable. We are saved when super Craig Halkett comes back though (and promptly gets injured again). Reminds me of Steven Naismith and Craig Levein.

[Kirky Jambo]

13 minutes ago, Leveins Battalion said:

Not signing a centre half in the Summer was an absolute disaster by the club.

 

 

Yep. I don’t think any reasonable person would disagree with this.

[Naisys Tackle]

17 minutes ago, Leveins Battalion said:

Not signing a centre half in the Summer was an absolute disaster by the club.

 

 

Spot on.  Lessons have to be learned for the winter and next year. 

[soonbe110]

27 minutes ago, Leveins Battalion said:

Not signing a centre half in the Summer was an absolute disaster by the club.

 

 

Think everyone knows that by now so maybe we can put it to bed and move on. We have two ‘new’ centre-halves joining us next week or the week after. 

[westbow]

2 hours ago, kingantti1874 said:

given we have to rely on these players until Halkett and Rowles back you don’t think he’s maybe just maybe trying to encourage them? 
 

I’m sure tearing strips of players who are playing out of position due to a chronic injury chrisis would be a better way to deal with it 

I see your point but I think these players know, despite their managers repetitive shtick, that they are not competent in the positions they are being asked to play. It seems patronising to the players and the fans. It is not the players fault it is the recruitment. They have been asked to do a job that is obviously not natural for them and making them look incompetent. That is incredibly bad preparation from management. Why is there no suitable cover either from signings or players coming through? This philosophy of only signing better than we have does not work for back up players. Back up experienced journeymen can temporarily fill a gap when needed. 

[Bazzas right boot]

48 minutes ago, NB GIN said:

Interesting insight from yourself. 
“Easy to understand if you’re not thick “ you say 

 

Nope it isn’t computing with me this statement you cannot defend well and concede 4 goals. 
Are you drunk ? 

 

As I said It's Easy to understand.

 

It's a bit like playing well but getting beat or playing poorly but winning.

One could argue you can't play well if you get beat as football is results based.

 

You can defend generally well but lapses at key times or good finishing results in goals.

 

It's not hard to understand at all what he meant. 

 

Really not hard to understand at all.

 

 

[Bazzas right boot]

53 minutes ago, RedStarRiot said:

I think he means in general terms they played okay when it came to limiting clear cut chances, pushing up and keeping a line etc.

 

Punished each time that we ****ed up really but ultimately you are right. It's obviously not a good defensive display if you concede 4. 

 

I'm also going to put this out there.

 

Craig Gordon wasn't good today. Well below his best but if anybody gets a free pass for having an off day it's him. 

 

Accountable for 2 at least and his distribution was shocking. 

 

 

Yip, and he's hardly going to publicly slate individuals or the team .

 

It's not that hard to work out what he meant. 

 

We probably defended in general worse v Motherwell,  gave away far more chances and had a god bit of luck , and Motherwell aren't Celtic in attack, who tend to  ne more clinical.

 

 

 

 

[Bazzas right boot]

28 minutes ago, westbow said:

We gave away four goals due to slack play. What part of that is brilliant defending? God I must be thick. Has it become so normalised to concede four plus goals at home that it is acceptable. We are saved when super Craig Halkett comes back though (and promptly gets injured again). Reminds me of Steven Naismith and Craig Levein.

 

Cool story. 

[westbow]

5 minutes ago, Bazzas right boot said:

 

As I said It's Easy to understand.

 

It's a bit like playing well but getting beat or playing poorly but winning.

One could argue you can't play well if you get beat as football is results based.

 

You can defend generally well but lapses at key times or good finishing results in goals.

 

It's not hard to understand at all what he meant. 

 

Really not hard to understand at all.

 

 

Four times. I'm sure that was not all the lapses either. Losing one or two aye, but four? That is not  defending generally well.

[The Treasurer]

43 minutes ago, Leveins Battalion said:

Not signing a centre half in the Summer was an absolute disaster by the club.

 

 

Eh?? 

We signed 2/3 Rowles, Neilson, and Sibbick 

[westbow]

2 minutes ago, Bazzas right boot said:

 

Cool story. 

Paint yourself into a corner all you want. It's your thing I guess. 

[Bazzas right boot]

5 minutes ago, westbow said:

Paint yourself into a corner all you want. It's your thing I guess. 

 

I knew what he meant.

You don't.

 

Either way it's frustrating. 

 

[Bazzas right boot]

7 minutes ago, The Treasurer said:

Eh?? 

We signed 2/3 Rowles, Neilson, and Sibbick 

 

Yip.

 

We should have signed 18, just in case. 

 

 

[OTT]

1 hour ago, pettigrewsstylist said:

Totally, despite being screamed from the rooftops.

 

What really annoys me about this whole shitshow is that Savage, Neilson, their coaching and backroom team are paid to know this. Learning curve and all that bollocks just doesn't cut it. Would anyone be happy having their lawyer **** something up because they're still learning? Would they ****. You pay them good money because they are supposed to understand their field better than some random on the street. 

 

Everyone and their dug could have told you at the start of the season, with Europe we needed to make sure we had cover across the pitch because more games = less recovery time which = higher chance of injury. 

 

For whatever reason he's tried to be too cute and clever with the squad size and its blown up in his face, ruined our European adventure and derailed the start of our season. I genuinely don't believe you can just chalk the injuries up to bad luck and shrug it off. The situation we're in is squarely down to bad planning. We failed to bring in adequate cover over the summer which left us short. Having experienced time and time again over Souttars time with us the damage his injuries did to our season, I do not understand why cover for Halkett was not sought. Kingsley is barely holding this defence together, and he's able to do that because he has experience. Neilson and Sibbick are like rabbits in headlights. We needed experience and it wasn't delivered. 

 

This place was nervous going into the season because of how quiet our transfer business was. So from the outset, we all knew we were short and taking a massive ****ing risk. So I don't know what the hell Savage and Neilson thought they were doing. 

 

Its sad because I think we've been let down big style by those responsible for building the squad. It was as simple as signing someone like Ryan McGowan. A no frills CB who had been around the block. Instead, I'm 99% sure we were aiming for brilliant signings that all fell through. Ambition is fine, but it needs to be tempered with reality.  If the squad was fine, why were we looking at Joe Wright? - Because we knew we needed another CB. 

 

Naive and reckless. 

[NB GIN]

20 minutes ago, Bazzas right boot said:

 

As I said It's Easy to understand.

 

It's a bit like playing well but getting beat or playing poorly but winning.

One could argue you can't play well if you get beat as football is results based.

 

You can defend generally well but lapses at key times or good finishing results in goals.

 

It's not hard to understand at all what he meant. 

 

Really not hard to understand at all.

 

 

Which is why it’s a bizarre statement 

Our defending was a total joke today actually embarrassing…. But we did play some great football and the effort was 10/10 

[Bazzas right boot]

2 minutes ago, NB GIN said:

Which is why it’s a bizarre statement 

Our defending was a total joke today actually embarrassing…. But we did play some great football and the effort was 10/10 

 

At certain points it  was poor,  but we limited them for large period's , more than we have in some games when we've conceded less.

 

It's just incredibly frustrating,  I knew what he meant , football can be full of contradictions sometimes. 

Not worthy of an argument. 

👍

 

It's a funny game.

[kingantti1874]

8 minutes ago, NB GIN said:

Which is why it’s a bizarre statement 

Our defending was a total joke today actually embarrassing…. But we did play some great football and the effort was 10/10 

I don’t think many teams defend well when missing all of their key defenders.  And their best CDM

 

The mistake is not being strong enough behind Halkett and Rowles.. it’s pretty obvious 

[Debut 4]

On a day I hoped for a proper performance and we got it, a day the midfield competed, covered more ground which gave us the base to get at Celtic, the defence has been found wanting again.  

Of course, we are missing natural centre backs.  It’s a big miss, but even at that a couple of their goals were really cheap ones.  You have to ask where the heads were at times, the concentration and awareness?  How we allowed so much space to open up on our right side at Mooys miss, was frightening.  
 

Aye, they are good. Their movement is excellent, Celtic work really hard and have very intelligent players, good slight of foot, but we were suckered in like amateurs at times.

It’s a shame on a day we were very good.  

 

 

[jr ewing]

Must get defending corners sorted immediately. 

[westbow]

27 minutes ago, Bazzas right boot said:

 

I knew what he meant.

You don't.

 

Either way it's frustrating. 

 

I know what he meant. You don’t have any kind of special insight. Get over your self. 

[Bazzas right boot]

2 minutes ago, westbow said:

I know what he meant. You don’t have any kind of special insight. Get over your self. 

 

Stop trolling then.

 

[westbow]

10 minutes ago, Bazzas right boot said:

 

Stop trolling then.

 

😂 touché 

[StevenNaismith]

Defending crosses into our box is comical at times and BM really needs to work harder defensively in big games!

[Bazzas right boot]

7 minutes ago, StevenNaismith said:

Defending crosses into our box is comical at times and BM really needs to work harder defensively in big games!

 

Defending crosses is a disaster ATM, but it won't get better until Halkett and/or Rowles are back.

 

 

[grumpyespana]

I enjoyed the game today even thou we got beat because we put the effort into it for the first time in a while, as for our defence I was not expecting much from them also Craig is needing a rest he looks out of sorts so I would give Clark a wee run in the league games. Top man today - Devlin.

[Korky]

1 hour ago, amadjambo said:

Halkett is the crucial player for us. I don’t think any of us have seen enough of Rowles to know if he is the solution or not. Looked decent but I thought he was easily dragged out of position when he did play. When they are both back, we will no doubt revert to a back 3 to shoehorn Kingsley and Cochrane into the team. Can’t be worse than what we are seeing at the back right now though.

So then we’ll have one central defender and three left-sided ones. Rowles might be ok but we already had Kingsley to play there.

we urgently need an aggressive and physical right-sided defender, preferably with some pace. Not easy to find, especially in January!

[Rudy T]

1 hour ago, westbow said:

I see your point but I think these players know, despite their managers repetitive shtick, that they are not competent in the positions they are being asked to play. It seems patronising to the players and the fans. It is not the players fault it is the recruitment. They have been asked to do a job that is obviously not natural for them and making them look incompetent. That is incredibly bad preparation from management. Why is there no suitable cover either from signings or players coming through? This philosophy of only signing better than we have does not work for back up players. Back up experienced journeymen can temporarily fill a gap when needed. 

The recruitment is a factor undoubtedly. However what choice does he have now, not only have we lost our two best CHs, every week another couple of players go down injured and the changes continue. Neilson and Sibbick are both natural CHs yet they’ve been terrible in recent games, it would be more incompetent management if he just kept playing them and completely destroyed any shred of confidence they have left. He brought back Sibbick after a rest and he did ok today so hopefully he can do a job alongside Kingsley in the short term. Now if Neilson chops and changes next week (assuming that change doesn’t include Halkett) then I’d suggest he’s got questions to answer.  

[Der Kaiser]

Having seen the highlights now....I think Cammy is mostly at fault for their winner.

 

He's not watching over his shoulder and doesn't follow Taylors run and Smith comes over to get close but ball runs fortunately right in front of Taylor.

 

Ach well.

 

That kind of performance on Thursday ans we'll do very well.

[OTT]

12 minutes ago, Rudy T said:

The recruitment is a factor undoubtedly. However what choice does he have now, not only have we lost our two best CHs, every week another couple of players go down injured and the changes continue. Neilson and Sibbick are both natural CHs yet they’ve been terrible in recent games, it would be more incompetent management if he just kept playing them and completely destroyed any shred of confidence they have left. He brought back Sibbick after a rest and he did ok today so hopefully he can do a job alongside Kingsley in the short term. Now if Neilson chops and changes next week (assuming that change doesn’t include Halkett) then I’d suggest he’s got questions to answer.  

 

I would say the first thing to do is to learn from it. Neither Neilson or Savage have any excuses for this happening again. Its on them to build a squad that can achieve things and we can't do that if our defence is a cobbled together makeshift mess. In January, I would like to see us sign Obileye from Livi on a pre-contract, he's a big strong unit of a CB, stood out for me when we played QOS and he's doing much the same at Livi, think he was their MoM against Rangers today. I think he could offer a lot of competition for Halkett, and give Neilson the option to revert back to a back 3 if he wants. 

 

If Robbie has any money to spend in January, buying him outright from Livi would be a good idea. Get the precontract sorted and see if they'll take £50-100k for him. Maybe see if we can send someone on loan the other way to get it done. 

 

For the here and now, I think you're right. Sibbick and Kinglsey until we can get Halkett and Rowles back. A bit of consistency at the back will probably help us and create a bit better understanding between our back line which we undoubtedly need right now. 

Edited October 22, 2022 by OTT

[Rudy T]

1 minute ago, OTT said:

 

I would say the first thing to do is to learn from it. Neither Neilson or Savage have any excuses for this happening again. Its on them to build a squad that can achieve things and we can't do that if our defence is a cobbled together makeshift mess. In January, I would like to see us sign Obileye from Livi on a pre-contract, he's a big strong unit of a CB, stood out for me when we played QOS and he's doing much the same at Livi, think he was their MoM against Rangers today. I think he could offer a lot of competition for Halkett, and give Neilson the option to revert back to a back 3 if he wants. 

 

If Robbie has any money to spend in January, buying him outright from Livi would be a good idea. Get the precontract sorted and see if they'll take £50-100k for him. Maybe see if we can send someone on loan the other way to get it done. 

 

For the here and now, I think you're right. Sibbick and Kinglsey until we can Halkett and Rowles back. A bit of consistency at the back will probably help us and create a bit better understanding between our back line which we undoubtedly need right now. 

I said throughout the summer I didn’t think recruitment was going well. We’ve been caught short. I don’t think the blame rests solely on one person I think it was a collective failure across the whole club.

 

I think Rowles can be a ball carrier so another solid defender isn’t a bad shout.

[andi17]

59 minutes ago, innerjambo said:

I think we were as good as we could be today, given current circumstances.

We had a go, we got in their face's, and with a bit of luck on our side, we could have taken a point, or more. 

The most important thing for me is, we had a go. Energy levels were better, and the performance all round was better. 

This if the team leaves it all on the park i can live with it

[Snedds76]

Great performance and exceeded what we all thought the final score would be but as I sit on the train home the simple fact still stands... 7th yes 7th game in a row we've conceded from a cross ball... Shocking at any level of football.!.