*** Hearts Winter Transfer Thread - Henderson and Connor Smith loaned out***

[Unknown user]

On 08/02/2023 at 09:48, Riccarton3 said:

Wouldn't they get a big windfall from promotion? And he must be on some eye watering salary compared to what we could offer?

Maybe, but they were losing half a million a week during the COVID shutdown, they've got some serious financial ground to make up.

[Bigteam]

19 hours ago, Footballfirst said:

Nope.  He's been in and out of the B team, without standing out above his team mates.

@Footballfirsti sometimes wonder what games you watch . Now that Denholm and Darge are getting released you will be lost 😂

[TheBigO]

13 minutes ago, Bigteam said:

Yes I’m told he has growing issues with knees and shouldn’t really have been playing for months ….. despite this from I have seen is work rate and off the ball movement his way ahead of B team level 

Wonder if he has Osgood Schlatters disease?  Jamie Walker had this (older than someone usually would).  I had it mid teens and it can be horrible.  Really affected my football at a key age (not that I  had any chance of making it, but it still knocked me back as I couldn't play on and off for about 18 months)

[Footballfirst]

12 minutes ago, Bigteam said:

@Footballfirsti sometimes wonder what games you watch . Now that Denholm and Darge are getting released you will be lost 😂

I've seen plenty players come and go over the years, including many who I have thought were worth keeping on. I don't think that it will affect my attendance. 🤩

 

The five players being released will all be too old for the B Team next season, if the current age restrictions are maintained (assuming there is a B Team next season), so perhaps it's not a great surprise that they leaving. 

Edited February 9, 2023 by Footballfirst

[soonbe110]

On 04/02/2023 at 22:44, Section Q said:

Calum Paterson got the winner today to take Sheff Wed top of the 1st division. Can see him getting a new deal if they go up...

Maybe, but can also possibly see him struggle to get back in their starting 11 after he recovers from injury.  

[jimbojambo]

4 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

I've seen plenty players come and go over the years, including many who I have thought were worth keeping on. I don't think that it will affect my attendance. 🤩

 

The five players being released will all be too old for the B Team next season, if the current age restrictions are maintained (assuming there is a B Team next season, so perhaps it's not a great surprise that they leaving. 

What's your honest opinion of the B team/academy set up given what it costs to run and the lack of players making it to the first team? 

[Footballfirst]

23 minutes ago, jimbojambo said:

What's your honest opinion of the B team/academy set up given what it costs to run and the lack of players making it to the first team? 

I have mixed views on the usefulness and viability of the academy.

 

In terms of costs, the club would still have to pay for coaching, sports science and training facilities for the first team squad (25+), grass pitch(es), astro, strength & conditioning room, treatment room, laundry, kitchen etc.  To that extent running the academy is an additional, but not extortionate, cost.  Most of the additional cost goes in part time coaching, transport to games and a relatively small salary bill for the full time academy players between 16 and 20.  Beyond that age the players really need to be part of the first team squad, otherwise they should be released.

 

We have benefitted most from Hickey's transfers (initial and sell on) and smaller payments for Paterson, Walker, Holt and more recently Simpson (Wilson and Stevenson to follow?). That in itself probably covers the running costs, if such a success(?) rate is maintained. 

 

The big plus I see from the academy, is that you can exert some degree of control in your recruitment, so if you do identify a gem then the benefit is yours.  The alternative of picking up cast offs from other clubs means that you are not getting the best talent through  your doors, and possibly still having to pay a fee. 

 

The concept of a B Team/Reserve side is a good one, given the difficulty we have in Scotland transitioning from youth to senior football. However, I don't think that we should be paying to enter a B team in the Lowland League. Apart from compromising the integrity of that league, some of the players are too good for that level, with only the younger ones really benefitting.  I'd rather that the SPFL restructures to two national full-time leagues (with or without B teams), with part time regional leagues below that.

 

Personally, I enjoy watching academy football more than the first team.  There is much more honesty in their endeavours and it's a pleasure to watch talented kids develop into decent adult footballers (at Hearts or elsewhere).

[jimbojambo]

32 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

I have mixed views on the usefulness and viability of the academy.

 

In terms of costs, the club would still have to pay for coaching, sports science and training facilities for the first team squad (25+), grass pitch(es), astro, strength & conditioning room, treatment room, laundry, kitchen etc.  To that extent running the academy is an additional, but not extortionate, cost.  Most of the additional cost goes in part time coaching, transport to games and a relatively small salary bill for the full time academy players between 16 and 20.  Beyond that age the players really need to be part of the first team squad, otherwise they should be released.

 

We have benefitted most from Hickey's transfers (initial and sell on) and smaller payments for Paterson, Walker, Holt and more recently Simpson (Wilson and Stevenson to follow?). That in itself probably covers the running costs, if such a success(?) rate is maintained. 

 

The big plus I see from the academy, is that you can exert some degree of control in your recruitment, so if you do identify a gem then the benefit is yours.  The alternative of picking up cast offs from other clubs means that you are not getting the best talent through  your doors, and possibly still having to pay a fee. 

 

The concept of a B Team/Reserve side is a good one, given the difficulty we have in Scotland transitioning from youth to senior football. However, I don't think that we should be paying to enter a B team in the Lowland League. Apart from compromising the integrity of that league, some of the players are too good for that level, with only the younger ones really benefitting.  I'd rather that the SPFL restructures to two national full-time leagues (with or without B teams), with part time regional leagues below that.

 

Personally, I enjoy watching academy football more than the first team.  There is much more honesty in their endeavours and it's a pleasure to watch talented kids develop into decent adult footballers (at Hearts or elsewhere).

Thanks for the detailed response FF. I feel that it is so much harder to break through at Hearts and youngsters may go to other smaller clubs as a better chance to break through to the first team. However economics don't seem to be the over-riding priority at Hearts just now as women's football while great for community involvement won't make money. Arsenal v Manchester City crowd last night was 1795 so it appears that the great desire for girls is to play and not spectate. 

[RustyRightPeg]

Interestingly, Jacob Davenport has signed for Stockport. His first club since we knocked him back in the summer. 

[wishawjambo]

Guy at work whose friendly with his dad says mckinstry from motherwell is coming to us in the summer seemingly he knocked us back in January don't know how much truth is in it though so don't shoot the messenger...

[Ford Prentice]

Some impact Connor Smith's having at Hamilton. Played 4 (first as sub), won 3 drew 1, scored 3 (inc 2 pens). Some would say he's found his level I suppose but I still think he could have a future here.

 

Update: just read match report on tonights win from P&J and Connor man of the match.

Edited February 21, 2023 by Ford Prentice

[hearts00]

4 minutes ago, Ford Prentice said:

Some impact Connor Smith's having at Hamilton. Played 4 (first as sub), won 3 drew 1, scored 3 (inc 2 pens). Some would say he's found his level I suppose but I still think he could have a future here.

This in a strange way annoys me. I think we have had a couple who are definitely good enough but they’ll never get enough game time to develop in the first team. 
 

It essentially means unless we unearth a Rooney we are never going to see young players make it in the first team. 
 

And if we did unearth a Rooney, he’d be off to  England by the time he was 16. 

[Ford Prentice]

2 minutes ago, hearts00 said:

This in a strange way annoys me. I think we have had a couple who are definitely good enough but they’ll never get enough game time to develop in the first team. 
 

It essentially means unless we unearth a Rooney we are never going to see young players make it in the first team. 
 

And if we did unearth a Rooney, he’d be off to  England by the time he was 16. 

I'd rather see Finlay Pollock getting some game time than Kuol. There's no advantage to us in developing Kuol and he's shown no sign so far that he'll contribute much in his loa period - will be happy to eat my words if he does.

[Nik5122]

Connor Smith's problem is he's a midfielder,Neilson very rarely starts with more than 2,

[PaddysBar]

6 minutes ago, Nik5122 said:

Connor Smith's problem is he's a midfielder,Neilson very rarely starts with more than 2,

An attacking midfielder as well. Neilson rarely starts with any. 

[soonbe110]

9 hours ago, Nik5122 said:

Connor Smith's problem is he's a midfielder,Neilson very rarely starts with more than 2,

He has signed on with us for another season so maybe he will get his chance in the summer if he impresses. Certainly doing well with Hamilton though have to say he isn’t competing with much in their squad, they were dreadful in the cup tie. 

[RustyRightPeg]

11 hours ago, wishawjambo said:

Guy at work whose friendly with his dad says mckinstry from motherwell is coming to us in the summer seemingly he knocked us back in January don't know how much truth is in it though so don't shoot the messenger...

Like him. Would be a good addition 🤞🏽 

[Ford Prentice]

27 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

He has signed on with us for another season so maybe he will get his chance in the summer if he impresses. Certainly doing well with Hamilton though have to say he isn’t competing with much in their squad, they were dreadful in the cup tie. 

Has he (Connor Smith) signed for another season? Last I saw he was out of contract in the Summer though I think we have an option to extend. Without him Hamilton are poor and looked certs for relegation. With him they are off the bottom and moving up. If we do let him go I'd expect another Premiership club will snap him up. 

[soonbe110]

26 minutes ago, Ford Prentice said:

Has he (Connor Smith) signed for another season? Last I saw he was out of contract in the Summer though I think we have an option to extend. Without him Hamilton are poor and looked certs for relegation. With him they are off the bottom and moving up. If we do let him go I'd expect another Premiership club will snap him up. 

Believe so. 
Suspect  him, and one or two other ex-Hearts kids will be at Accies next season if they survive the drop, Rankin is still there and they remain full-time.
 

To be perfectly fair it’s not just Smith that’s made the difference. They brought in a lot of players in January. 

[Sooks]

12 hours ago, wishawjambo said:

Guy at work whose friendly with his dad says mckinstry from motherwell is coming to us in the summer seemingly he knocked us back in January don't know how much truth is in it though so don't shoot the messenger...

 

1 hour ago, RustyRightPeg said:

Like him. Would be a good addition 🤞🏽 

 

Me too but is he not just there on loan from Leeds who bought him off Motherwell a year or so ago

[Mikey1874]

2 hours ago, Sooks said:

 

 

Me too but is he not just there on loan from Leeds who bought him off Motherwell a year or so ago

 

 

[soonbe110]

5 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

 

I was surprised he wasn’t used against us on Sunday He has looked sharp in both the previous games against us. 

[wavydavy]

2 hours ago, Sooks said:

 

 

Me too but is he not just there on loan from Leeds who bought him off Motherwell a year or so ago

 

Yes.

 

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/stuart-mckinstry/profil/spieler/592474

[Watt-Zeefuik]

1 hour ago, soonbe110 said:

I was surprised he wasn’t used against us on Sunday He has looked sharp in both the previous games against us. 

It's possible then he's already signed a pre- for us.

[Lego Knees]

I’ve heard that we have enquired about Josh Mulligan from Dundee. Young midfielder who is having a good season by all accounts. 

[Naisys Tackle]

4 hours ago, soonbe110 said:

I was surprised he wasn’t used against us on Sunday He has looked sharp in both the previous games against us. 

Hes been benched recently. 

[pettigrewsstylist]

1 hour ago, Lego Knees said:

I’ve heard that we have enquired about Josh Mulligan from Dundee. Young midfielder who is having a good season by all accounts. 

Not sure where that leaves Connor Smith, if true.

[soonbe110]

2 minutes ago, pettigrewsstylist said:

Not sure where that leaves Connor Smith, if true.

Suspect he is out of the thoughts of management unless he has a real upturn in performance this season or next.  New contract that was offered, and an accepted, was probably just to ensure we receive a development fee for him when he signs for another club. 

[Carter]

1 hour ago, soonbe110 said:

Suspect he is out of the thoughts of management unless he has a real upturn in performance this season or next.  New contract that was offered, and an accepted, was probably just to ensure we receive a development fee for him when he signs for another club. 

Isn't he out of contract this summer? 

[TommyC]

2 hours ago, Lego Knees said:

I’ve heard that we have enquired about Josh Mulligan from Dundee. Young midfielder who is having a good season by all accounts. 

I've never seen him play so can't comment but a Dundee-supporting mate was surprised as he doesn't think he's Hearts quality. 

[soonbe110]

1 hour ago, Carter said:

Isn't he out of contract this summer? 

Believe he signed a one year extension. 

[Batistuta87]

2 hours ago, pettigrewsstylist said:

Not sure where that leaves Connor Smith, if true.

On the "not retained" list, you would assume.

 

[pettigrewsstylist]

17 hours ago, soonbe110 said:

Suspect he is out of the thoughts of management unless he has a real upturn in performance this season or next.  New contract that was offered, and an accepted, was probably just to ensure we receive a development fee for him when he signs for another club. 

Generating some column inches wont do him any harm.

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/local-sport/hearts-mentor-john-rankin-always-29286265

[john thomas]

1 hour ago, pettigrewsstylist said:

Generating some column inches wont do him any harm.

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/local-sport/hearts-mentor-john-rankin-always-29286265

Never knew he was a striker ?

[soonbe110]

1 hour ago, pettigrewsstylist said:

Generating some column inches wont do him any harm.

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/local-sport/hearts-mentor-john-rankin-always-29286265

Indeed, as I posted earlier, if Rankin keeps his job and Accies stay full-time I wouldn’t be surprised to see  a few other ex-Hearts kids to be playing there next season. 

[Ford Prentice]

3 hours ago, soonbe110 said:

Indeed, as I posted earlier, if Rankin keeps his job and Accies stay full-time I wouldn’t be surprised to see  a few other ex-Hearts kids to be playing there next season. 

Doubt he'll sign for Accies. If he leaves I'm pretty sure a Premiership team will pick him up.

[TheBigO]

39 minutes ago, Ford Prentice said:

Doubt he'll sign for Accies. If he leaves I'm pretty sure a Premiership team will pick him up.

 

39 minutes ago, Ford Prentice said:

Doubt he'll sign for Accies. If he leaves I'm pretty sure a Premiership team will pick him up.

Me too. Hes a good player. Not sure we play a system he fits in. We should (not because of Connor, just in other news, we should play a different formation!)

[jamboinglasgow]

46 minutes ago, Ford Prentice said:

Doubt he'll sign for Accies. If he leaves I'm pretty sure a Premiership team will pick him up.

 

I'm sure there will be Premiership teams in for him, though he might choose to go to Hamilton if he feels he gets regular football and believes that John Rankine will really improve him. He might not get all that at a Premiership team (even if he do well at that level.)

[Mikey1874]

9 minutes ago, jamboinglasgow said:

 

I'm sure there will be Premiership teams in for him, though he might choose to go to Hamilton if he feels he gets regular football and believes that John Rankine will really improve him. He might not get all that at a Premiership team (even if he do well at that level.)

 

And Hamilton could be in the Premiership in a year and a half. 

[Smithian]

On 23/02/2023 at 12:29, jamboinglasgow said:

 

I'm sure there will be Premiership teams in for him, though he might choose to go to Hamilton if he feels he gets regular football and believes that John Rankine will really improve him. He might not get all that at a Premiership team (even if he do well at that level.)

And Falkirk with John McGlynn may make it up to the Championship. Not certain if there are still many in the club with a relationship there, if so there's two solid Championship sides next season where Hearts could place players.

 

I do wish early results before World Cup had been better. With some breathing room, Neilson may have been able to give Connor Smith more run at Tynecastle. I still think Hearts may be above his level, but he's really helped turn it around for Hamilton. Nice to have seen more of him here before giving up.

[Howdy Doody Jambo]

Is Paterson still an option to join in the summer? 

[Mr Rabbit]

9 hours ago, The Maroon Pound said:

Is Paterson still an option to join in the summer? 

We still want him but Sheffield Wednesday were keen to extend before he got injured. If the get promoted the money they’ll offer won’t be comparable.

[Howdy Doody Jambo]

26 minutes ago, Mr Rabbit said:

We still want him but Sheffield Wednesday were keen to extend before he got injured. If the get promoted the money they’ll offer won’t be comparable.

They might think that they will be able to sign a better option for the championship 

Home is where the Hearts are could be a deciding factor alongside European fitbaw 

[john thomas]

10 hours ago, The Maroon Pound said:

Is Paterson still an option to join in the summer? 

The close friends/family members on here that told us he was definitely coming in January can perhaps answer this 

[Mikey1874]

3 hours ago, john thomas said:

The close friends/family members on here that told us he was definitely coming in January can perhaps answer this 

 

My reading of what they were saying was that he was definitely coming. January wasn't in his control.

[Diadora Van Basten]

Beginning to think we were better off with Henderson and Smith than Oda and Kuol.

[King prawn]

3 minutes ago, Diadora Van Basten said:

Beginning to think we were better off with Henderson and Smith than Oda and Kuol.

Very early days but I'm not sure about Oda and Kuol.

 

Henderson will never be good enough for Hearts - League 1 is his standard.

[PapaShango]

14 hours ago, King prawn said:

Very early days but I'm not sure about Oda and Kuol.

 

Henderson will never be good enough for Hearts - League 1 is his standard.

Got to give these guys a chance, both young in a completely new country and culture. Henderson has had plenty chances and has never got the ability to make it at Hearts. We have said all along that Oda is one that will be a slow burner, think once he gets up to speed with the pace of the game and learns the language he could be a great option to have. 

[Chimp]

14 hours ago, Diadora Van Basten said:

Beginning to think we were better off with Henderson and Smith than Oda and Kuol.

 

Jeezo give the guys a chance they only signed in January! 🤦‍♂️

[VagabondJambo]

1 hour ago, PapaShango said:

Got to give these guys a chance, both young in a completely new country and culture. Henderson has had plenty chances and has never got the ability to make it at Hearts. We have said all along that Oda is one that will be a slow burner, think once he gets up to speed with the pace of the game and learns the language he could be a great option to have. 

Exactly!

From the VERY little (thank you, Robbie!) I have seen of Kuol and Oda, I think we have two gems here . . . however we need to give them proper game time, hopefully starting Saturday.

I am impressed by their skills, energy, and pace.  I hope Robbie gives them the freedom to play to their strengths and doesn’t stifle them.